So I've thought about some of the concerns with epic loot lately and here's something to think about.
The current meta is +5
Right now if you farm the phane by either knowing some friends who can tank it with high will saves or do it yourself, +5 gear is really easy to get. It is now the standard for level 30 characters and the server economy reflects that.
Boss farming is not condusive to party play
Statistically, if you take a group of friends out to go boss farming over the usual one friend you lower your personal chance of getting loot if something does drop because you usually have to roll to decide who gets the drop afterward. Because the loot drop is a flat 5% no matter the party size, it only makes sense to do your bosses and then help someone else do their bosses so you can increase your chances. It's systemically geared toward that sort of behavior and I think that's a problem.
Only weapons, +5, and +30 matter
The armors in the epic lootbin are mostly useless. Arcane defiance used to have a purpose but now it does something you can generally get from a scroll. Dragon Plate is not really very useful despite it's looking pretty cool and the +6 items are usually the sort of things that take up slots you could really use for skills or saves or ac or freedom. I think some of the intended changes like removing perma freedom will help with this but it's still a hard call.
So what can we do about this? Well, I don't think we can fix the +5 meta, that's here to stay. Flawless shards are so easy to get now that taking them away will only hurt newer characters who can't really compete with the older ones.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Seriously, making epics easier to come by and adding another tier of epic epics feels like printing money to counter inflation. I'm far more in favor of rethinking the equipment dynamics towards a more lower-power-but-permanent vs high-power-but-limited-use concept instead.
From the guy without a single epic item in his entire playtime.
_________________ Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon. "Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over." Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance. "Sol Invictus"
Statistically, if you take a group of friends out to go boss farming over the usual one friend you lower your personal chance of getting loot if something does drop because you usually have to roll to decide who gets the drop afterward. Because the loot drop is a flat 5% no matter the party size, it only makes sense to do your bosses and then help someone else do their bosses so you can increase your chances. It's systemically geared toward that sort of behavior and I think that's a problem.
You need to reverse the statistical curve to accomplish this or the behavior will never change. It has to be worse for you personally to solo the boss and better to go with a party. That will necessarily involve reducing the % for 1-2 people and increasing it for larger parties. I'll post an idea for this later when I'm on my laptop.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
There was talk at one time (and I thought it was ready to be implemented!) of a system for bosses where everyone in the party rolled independently their chance of a drop. This way, larger groups had both the extra help, extra social aspect (we are an rp game after all), and each member had the same chance of getting something. It would also eliminate constant bossrunning, meaning we don't have to install a take-a-number machine at some of the more popular spots.
I don't think though we should make higher tier epics, nor should we make it easier to get epics really. Epic should be epic, not mandatory wear. The power creep is real.
An interesting sidenote here: I don't ever really expect epic gear for my character, I plan around things found in the stores on the server. Most times? You can be pretty damn amazing with just that and some mythalling, and I don't mean flawless!
Statistically, if you take a group of friends out to go boss farming over the usual one friend you lower your personal chance of getting loot if something does drop because you usually have to roll to decide who gets the drop afterward. Because the loot drop is a flat 5% no matter the party size, it only makes sense to do your bosses and then help someone else do their bosses so you can increase your chances. It's systemically geared toward that sort of behavior and I think that's a problem.
You need to reverse the statistical curve to accomplish this or the behavior will never change. It has to be worse for you personally to solo the boss and better to go with a party. That will necessarily involve reducing the % for 1-2 people and increasing it for larger parties. I'll post an idea for this later when I'm on my laptop.
I would love to see something like that but also don't know how incredibly difficult that would be to script
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Arcane defiance gear is still pretty much the only way you can not die to flesh to stone arrows w/o additional help though, I'd say it's pretty darn good for a torso. dragon plate is also really slot efficient so I don't think it's 'bad' at all.
If you wanna talk about dead drops, talk about crossbows (you can literally buy better then the +5 bin crossbows from merchants) or slings (that nobody actually uses) or bucklers (that nobody uses). im sure there's more esoteric items out there in that bin that are even worse.
Elorathall wrote:
Power (Creep) Overwhelming!
Seriously, making epics easier to come by and adding another tier of epic epics feels like printing money to counter inflation. I'm far more in favor of rethinking the equipment dynamics towards a more lower-power-but-permanent vs high-power-but-limited-use concept instead.
From the guy without a single epic item in his entire playtime.
this is just wrong. you can buy epic weapons for 100k from players. you can buy almost all epics for < 1mil from others. some vendors literally sell +5 gear. if you dont' have one epic in your whole playtime i'd say you're literally avoiding them.
also adding more shit to the +5 bin will just make the already absurd price of some specific epics MORE expensive because they will become LESS common.
im still waiting for a dm to comment if we can just get +5 bin items made with DC gear or not.
Basically his suggestion is start people at 3% chance or some such, for epic items, and increase from there, so that with maybe 3 people you once again have a 5% epic chance - and it gets better from there. 14 people hunting epics? You're looking at a 16% chance of finding an epic, per boss, using the model of
C = 0.02 + 0.01P
(C is chance to find epics, P is players in party.)
Really simple, same as what we have now, just a simple y = mx + b line, just with a different value for "b".
It's simple but not that simple. I'm looking to reverse the incentive curve. What you have there doesn't do that. Looking at your example, let's say you get 3% chance solo and 4% with 2 people. Still better to solo because your chance of getting the loot goes from 3% down to 2% when you party up. Still on my phone here but I'll post it tonight.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
Statistically you are X times more likely to get more loot while hunting in a group where X is the amount of times extra you get to do the boss per party member, which ironically is exactly the correct amount you'd expect?
All this would do, is make loot drop like a fountain in a party and be mass farmable. I do not see any benefit in this approach, with the algorithm presented. (which by the way, is not programming)
Epics should be hard to get, otherwise there is nothing to mechanically work for, since getting 30 certainly isn't an achievement. As far as DC loot being in the epic bin, welp, that will never happen, simply because they are almost all in severe breach of game mechanics and balance themselves.
Expanding the current meta beyond +5, or buffing things only really helps melee. Also, it is going the exact opposite direction the server has been trying to go, by making casters relevant again. Not to mention the metric fuckton of work it would involve, as it is a global balance change.
I believe there was a talk a while back that each character present in a boss' death would get their own roll for the epic loot, and should they get a 1-5, that loot going right to their inventory. Is that still a thing? If ever it was.
I believe there was a talk a while back that each character present in a boss' death would get their own roll for the epic loot, and should they get a 1-5, that loot going right to their inventory. Is that still a thing? If ever it was.
i loathe those kinds of systems. they always feel super artificial and it doesn't really fix the issue, from d3 which did that kind of loot, either someone randomly gets an item and just keeps it w/o telling anyone despite not needing it, or there's some kind of melty because someone looted a staff and doesn't need it but won't give it to someone that does because it was "their drop."
we just need more items. frankly i'd like it if we had an epic weapon roll (so that sling doesn't eat your drop) and an epic 'other' roll for all the non weapons on each boss kill.
but again just letting people flat request items out of the dc bin is the easiest and most realistic "loot" solution. and i wish a dm other then tormak (who just said he was once told-) would comment on if we could or not.
As if boss hunting doesn't feel artificial enough. It still expands the chances of getting loot greatly. From one 5% shot, to 23% if you're rolling 5 people- for one try at one boss. Do that boss 3 more times and your chances boost to 65%. And, while I agree that need comes before greed, not everyone will see it that way. So to make that a rule seems ehh.
Last edited by aida on Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:24 AM, edited 1 time in total.
As if boss hunting doesn't feel artificial enough. It still expands the changes of getting loot greatly. From one 5% shot, to 23% if you're rolling 5 people- for one try at one boss. Do that boss 3 more times and your chances boost to 65%. And, while I agree that need comes before greed, not everyone will see it that way. So to make that a rule seems ehh.
yeah thats what i dislike about 'personal' loot systems in videogames.
Also like this idea. Alternatively, and slightly off topic, if nothing like this is ever set to happen, when can we see that Djinn merchant again? If at all.
The idea here is to reverse the incentive curve around Boss Epic Loot Drops. As described by Bob, the current Loot Drop Percentage (LDP) of a flat 5% deeply incentivizes the killing of bosses with as few people in your party as is feasible. The important incentive driver is the LDP per Person, as that influences player behavior. It’s currently negative, meaning the more PC’s involved in killing the boss the lower the LDP per person goes, and it goes down fast. Reversing the curve means that as more people join the boss killing party, the LDP per person has to go UP.
On a roleplay server, group dynamics and party activity is what builds bonds, stories, and character relationships. Therefore, important module incentive systems should be constructed and implemented with that goal in mind.
Suggestion: Loot Drop Percentage (LDP) is determined by a formula. Party Count is a key component, including only PC’s and excluding summons, companions, and familiars. Also, it should only count PC’s who haven’t been flagged as having killed that boss during the same period (my assumption is that this is tracked with a flag). So if you have a party of 3 but one of the PC’s already killed the Boss it’s counted as a party of 2 for Loot Drop.
The concept is you get a set % for the 1st PC in the party and additional % for each additional PC over 1. The key to reversing the curve is that the % increase for each additional PC has to be larger than the set amount for the 1st PC. In that way, as more people get involved, the LDP per Person continues to inch up. I expect there will be debate as to what the overall level of Epic Loot drops should be under the new system compared to the current system. Some discussion on that later. Formula: LDP = (1 + (Party Count-1)*2) Expressed in words its “1% plus 2% per PC over 1“.
This works out to the following percentages for party sizes from 1-5: 1%, 3%, 5%, 7%, 9%
This works out to the following LDP per Person for party sizes from 1-5: 1%, 1.5%, 1.67%, 1.75%, 1.8%
With this method, the 3 PC party has parity to the current system (5% loot drop). Parties of 4 or more get higher averages per person and Soloing/2PC Party gets you a lower average return than the current system. Commentary: Larger parties are slightly better off than smaller parties. A 4 person party is slightly better than two 2 person parties. That slight benefit exists for every party combination.
You can cap the % drop at some level to discourage parties above a certain size if desired, as any additional party members above that limit would then reduce % LDP per person.
I’m also of the opinion that in the proposed system instead of MANY solo 5% chance rolls by a small handful of players we’ll see FEWER rolls by larger groups of players (admittedly at a higher % chance per roll). This shift will occur without a massive flood of goods on the market and with Epic Loot being more widely distributed amongst the PC’s than the present day.
Benefits: Incentivizes ad hoc party creation and group roleplay.
Incentivizes player coordination and teamwork.
Benefits a wider range of PCs - By providing more opportunities for “support” style characters to participate in boss hunting than the current system which primarily benefits individually strong builds able to solo a variety of bosses repetitively.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
With this method, the 3 PC party has parity to the current system (5% loot drop). Parties of 4 or more get higher averages per person and Soloing/2PC Party gets you a lower average return than the current system.
doesn't the odds of 'you' getting an item drop like a stone with this kind of system?
I believe there was a talk a while back that each character present in a boss' death would get their own roll for the epic loot, and should they get a 1-5, that loot going right to their inventory. Is that still a thing? If ever it was.
i loathe those kinds of systems. they always feel super artificial and it doesn't really fix the issue, from d3 which did that kind of loot, either someone randomly gets an item and just keeps it w/o telling anyone despite not needing it, or there's some kind of melty because someone looted a staff and doesn't need it but won't give it to someone that does because it was "their drop."
we just need more items. frankly i'd like it if we had an epic weapon roll (so that sling doesn't eat your drop) and an epic 'other' roll for all the non weapons on each boss kill.
but again just letting people flat request items out of the dc bin is the easiest and most realistic "loot" solution. and i wish a dm other then tormak (who just said he was once told-) would comment on if we could or not.
More loot is not the answer, in fact it's a terrible answer. It means you are even less likely to get what you want, which goes against your usual complaint.
And how is 'everyone rolling' a bad system? It makes far more sense than running the same boss 2-6 times in a row, and it replicates when you are in PnP and the DM lets you search for treasure.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
I believe there was a talk a while back that each character present in a boss' death would get their own roll for the epic loot, and should they get a 1-5, that loot going right to their inventory. Is that still a thing? If ever it was.
i loathe those kinds of systems. they always feel super artificial and it doesn't really fix the issue, from d3 which did that kind of loot, either someone randomly gets an item and just keeps it w/o telling anyone despite not needing it, or there's some kind of melty because someone looted a staff and doesn't need it but won't give it to someone that does because it was "their drop."
we just need more items. frankly i'd like it if we had an epic weapon roll (so that sling doesn't eat your drop) and an epic 'other' roll for all the non weapons on each boss kill.
but again just letting people flat request items out of the dc bin is the easiest and most realistic "loot" solution. and i wish a dm other then tormak (who just said he was once told-) would comment on if we could or not.
More loot is not the answer, in fact it's a terrible answer. It means you are even less likely to get what you want, which goes against your usual complaint.
And how is 'everyone rolling' a bad system? It makes far more sense than running the same boss 2-6 times in a row, and it replicates when you are in PnP and the DM lets you search for treasure.
i meant more items dropping in general, more chances for the gear you want, not more epic items in the pool. i don't mind 'everyone rolling' but i don't like the private loot they suggested where if you hit it just goes in your inventory like d3 basically does. "private loot" is artificial and dumb as hell and i hate it in every game its in for the reasons i stated.
aida wrote:
^
And if you're with decent folk, there can be a need before greed arrangement. If they don't wanna do that, why u with them?
people get mental around here when shit drops. absolutely mental. even if it's a bad item. even if it's an item they can't use. i've seen people literally quit a faction over an elemental defiance buckler when they happened to be playing a 2 hander axe man, and ofc it was all 'ooc' purple chat. it's something about amia that keeps surprising me.
people get mental around here when shit drops. absolutely mental. even if it's a bad item. even if it's an item they can't use. i've seen people literally quit a faction over an elemental defiance buckler when they happened to be playing a 2 hander axe man, and ofc it was all 'ooc' purple chat. it's something about amia that keeps surprising me.
I think that if everyone gets their own roll, and the loot drops in your own inventory, it'll tone back people's reactions. It belongs to that person and that's it. Alternatively, don't make the rolls and loot acquisition visible to other players.
Statistically you are X times more likely to get more loot while hunting in a group where X is the amount of times extra you get to do the boss per party member, which ironically is exactly the correct amount you'd expect?
All this would do, is make loot drop like a fountain in a party and be mass farmable. I do not see any benefit in this approach, with the algorithm presented. (which by the way, is not programming)
Epics should be hard to get, otherwise there is nothing to mechanically work for, since getting 30 certainly isn't an achievement. As far as DC loot being in the epic bin, welp, that will never happen, simply because they are almost all in severe breach of game mechanics and balance themselves.
Expanding the current meta beyond +5, or buffing things only really helps melee. Also, it is going the exact opposite direction the server has been trying to go, by making casters relevant again. Not to mention the metric fuckton of work it would involve, as it is a global balance change.
^ The above is my opinion only.
Good opinion.
The Black Caravan was a mistake.
Amarice may hate me but I consider the Djinn a mistake, because of posts like this.
Quote:
Yes, we could use the Djinn again.
Fancy DM shops only function as long as that DM runs the fancy shop. The instant they stop it all becomes legacy gear. Especially when they gear is hyper close to the +5 bin like the Djinn (and ESPECIALLY the Black Caravan) stuff was.
"Soulbound loot" also a bad idea, it's not IC at all and we should be able to trust players to handle loot issues IC. If anyone ever comes to me as a DM and says "he picked up epic loot and won't show me it", my answer will be "address it IC."
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Or we could just pray for a Dm event where Epic loot is dropped and we just snatch it up for ourselves. *Shrugs* 8D
That literally happened and Osiris took the loot secretly and kept it IC, and people bitched OOCly and metagamed it and switched allegiances in 5 minutes because they wanted the item.
Joke's on them, I ended up giving it to someone who didn't give a shit about the item anyway.
The idea here is to reverse the incentive curve around Boss Epic Loot Drops. As described by Bob, the current Loot Drop Percentage (LDP) of a flat 5% deeply incentivizes the killing of bosses with as few people in your party as is feasible. The important incentive driver is the LDP per Person, as that influences player behavior. It’s currently negative, meaning the more PC’s involved in killing the boss the lower the LDP per person goes, and it goes down fast. Reversing the curve means that as more people join the boss killing party, the LDP per person has to go UP.
On a roleplay server, group dynamics and party activity is what builds bonds, stories, and character relationships. Therefore, important module incentive systems should be constructed and implemented with that goal in mind.
Suggestion: Loot Drop Percentage (LDP) is determined by a formula. Party Count is a key component, including only PC’s and excluding summons, companions, and familiars. Also, it should only count PC’s who haven’t been flagged as having killed that boss during the same period (my assumption is that this is tracked with a flag). So if you have a party of 3 but one of the PC’s already killed the Boss it’s counted as a party of 2 for Loot Drop.
The concept is you get a set % for the 1st PC in the party and additional % for each additional PC over 1. The key to reversing the curve is that the % increase for each additional PC has to be larger than the set amount for the 1st PC. In that way, as more people get involved, the LDP per Person continues to inch up. I expect there will be debate as to what the overall level of Epic Loot drops should be under the new system compared to the current system. Some discussion on that later. Formula: LDP = (1 + (Party Count-1)*2) Expressed in words its “1% plus 2% per PC over 1“.
This works out to the following percentages for party sizes from 1-5: 1%, 3%, 5%, 7%, 9%
This works out to the following LDP per Person for party sizes from 1-5: 1%, 1.5%, 1.67%, 1.75%, 1.8%
With this method, the 3 PC party has parity to the current system (5% loot drop). Parties of 4 or more get higher averages per person and Soloing/2PC Party gets you a lower average return than the current system. Commentary: Larger parties are slightly better off than smaller parties. A 4 person party is slightly better than two 2 person parties. That slight benefit exists for every party combination.
You can cap the % drop at some level to discourage parties above a certain size if desired, as any additional party members above that limit would then reduce % LDP per person.
I’m also of the opinion that in the proposed system instead of MANY solo 5% chance rolls by a small handful of players we’ll see FEWER rolls by larger groups of players (admittedly at a higher % chance per roll). This shift will occur without a massive flood of goods on the market and with Epic Loot being more widely distributed amongst the PC’s than the present day.
Benefits: Incentivizes ad hoc party creation and group roleplay.
Incentivizes player coordination and teamwork.
Benefits a wider range of PCs - By providing more opportunities for “support” style characters to participate in boss hunting than the current system which primarily benefits individually strong builds able to solo a variety of bosses repetitively.
That was really long but basically it's exactly what I said, a linear equation, just with a slight change to the coefficients.
Mine was
C = 0.02 + 0.01P
Yours is
C = 0.01 + 0.02P
Not a curve, still linear. (Which is what we have right now, just, again, with different coefficients for the variables.)
It is linear. I never said you were far off. But the formula is C = .01 + .02(P-1).
The coefficients matter in my opinion for the reasons stated. The second coefficient being larger means that the more people in the party the higher the individual probability goes which provides incentive to party up not go it alone.
The other thing is if you can use decimals in the formula and the loot roll you can basically tune the drop percentages to any overall level desired. So if it's too low or too high you can just adjust the coefficients.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
Or we could just pray for a Dm event where Epic loot is dropped and we just snatch it up for ourselves. *Shrugs* 8D
That literally happened and Osiris took the loot secretly and kept it IC, and people bitched OOCly and metagamed it and switched allegiances in 5 minutes because they wanted the item.
Joke's on them, I ended up giving it to someone who didn't give a shit about the item anyway.
People act irrationally about loot OOCly.
Running a bit off topic, but it's hard to ignore flat lies. Assuming you're talking about my character! which I think you are. If not, ignore this bit.
I asked kindly/calmly OOC if you had gotten loot. You said yes. I asked if you're allowed to hide it like that? You said Tormak specifically said it was okay. So I said okay as well, and that was the end of the 'bitching'. Oh, and I asked if my character was allowed to know that you took it. You said yes. From there it was entirely IC. And switch allegiance? No. The idea was never to be on your side. quite the opposite. Ask the character's sister. I only mention that because you talk like it was OOCly motivated.
Also you said you were entitled to the loot since you requested the event from Tormak. Which, and maybe it's just me that thinks this, is kinda chicken shit.
_________________ so he would always have a friend
When you keep loot ic you do everyone a favor. Bring it up then. Why would you go ooc over loot?
At the same time I respect someone for holding an L so yeah. Let's see where it goes ic.
Also loot "entitlement" is literally who ever nabs it first, barring someone not in the party ninja looting drops from a party. You arnt "entitled" to shit just because you requested an event or whatever you think you did thst gives you claim on items. Thats why you should just keep loot ic.
I would just be happy if the power creep downward would stop since most of the items are largely garbage anyways and if we'd add a handful of new items to the bin periodically to actually keep things fresh.
_________________ Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)
You're right, I shouldn't have. But it was for clarification of some things. Outright taking loot, and not RPing that at all (other than saying OOC he 'secretly' took it), kinda raises some questions. Because I asked OOC though, I now know the rules : )
_________________ so he would always have a friend
You're right, I shouldn't have. But it was for clarification of some things. Outright taking loot, and not RPing that at all (other than saying OOC he 'secretly' took it), kinda raises some questions. Because I asked OOC though, I now know the rules : )
well when you're rolling around with 'known antagonist' characters that's what you get.
Fancy DM shops only function as long as that DM runs the fancy shop. The instant they stop it all becomes legacy gear. Especially when they gear is hyper close to the +5 bin like the Djinn (and ESPECIALLY the Black Caravan) stuff was.
Eh, and? None of those items are as good as (or better than) epic things (or in most cases, junk you can make with greater mythals).
How's it any different than running an event for a handful of people, then dropping 1 to 3 "somethings" that go beyond the scope and power of the mythal system? At least the shop is open to all, mostly and has an advertised time and place.
In my time here, I've seen (shown by other players) quite a few items that are ridiculous I've been told came from DM events. At times, I feel like I'm playing a vastly different game than the other people here are. In my timeslot, you never get any events whatsoever. You rarely ever see a DM online and if they are, they're usually only online to follow around the same people (not hard to pick out who those crowds are when you see them online). The amount of times I've even bumped into DM interaction could probably be counted on one hand and nobody was dropping me anything (you can't even earn DCs at night, much less anything more). Most times I ever see DM interaction were when they decided they just wanted to possess a random epic boss in order to try to turn the encounter into a snuff film with me as the victim. Not a "meaningful" encounter in any way, really.
At least the shop stuff can't be really couched as favortism, intentional or not.
_________________ Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice
(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)
i think it's disliked because it's just a dm essentially generating and dispensing loot.
and i agree with that. dm granted loot is dumb. when people stand around with their hands out asking when they can get an event because they want loot too it's even dumber. that's not the point of dnd. it's not about 'loot.'
In my opinion, all epic drops should be replaced with randomly generated yellow items of similar strength. The only reason epic loot is in the meta, is because people already know what is going to drop.
By having randomly generated items, it makes the chances of having two identical drops very low hence making it even more of an epic item.
It would change up the player character market system. You might actually sift through a whole players wares, because you would have no idea what they might have scavenged on their latest adventure.
Promotes grouping, and roleplay. These things don't have to drop from a "epic boss". It might just be a higher level area that drops yellow loot of varying strength. This way you could find an epic items "anywhere" that you may find yourself exploring... it doesn't have to be a set area where people are lined up waiting to slay the beast for the thousandth time in their career.
Fuck epic items. Period. Make it interesting guys!
In my opinion, all epic drops should be replaced with randomly generated yellow items of similar strength. The only reason epic loot is in the meta, is because people already know what is going to drop.
By having randomly generated items, it makes the chances of having two identical drops very low hence making it even more of an epic item.
It would change up the player character market system. You might actually sift through a whole players wares, because you would have no idea what they might have scavenged on their latest adventure.
Promotes grouping, and roleplay. These things don't have to drop from a "epic boss". It might just be a higher level area that drops yellow loot of varying strength. This way you could find an epic items "anywhere" that you may find yourself exploring... it doesn't have to be a set area where people are lined up waiting to slay the beast for the thousandth time in their career.
Fuck epic items. Period. Make it interesting guys!
I had suggested highest tier mobs ((anything that drops a greater mythal)) should have a chance to drop a yellow item that COULD be on epic loot par, so say +5 vs racial be it armor or weapon....ect have different effects and everything so it causes more people to trade and then its not just run past and nuke epic boss and then wait till reset and do it again.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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But the formula is C = .01 + .02(P-1).
