AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Items

Last edited by Akhlys on Thu, Jun 16 2016, 0:00 AM, edited 1 time in total.

you cant unless youre a monk
my monk gets 66 ac with haste and +12 dex and wis gear
just another bullshit statement from commie

edit: my bad, dexers that use tower shields get similar ac too
no one is getting above 63 ac without haste or other buffs
expertise doesnt count

Last edited by Commie on Wed, Jun 15 2016, 23:53 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Ruathen Princess wrote:

I'd like an explanation how you get 65 AC with no buffs, please! Unless it's Expertise mode... then... yeah, of course you can.

yeah 60 ac and then regular expertise. could throw on imp expertise, haste, and shadow shield evade too if you want to count buffs or class features. plus epic dodge.

edit; could be a hin for +1 more. or a smurfiblen for small and +3 dodge.

hell dunbak doesn't even have an ioun stone so i should be at 66 with expertise on if i could find a dodge ioun.

Akhlys wrote:

you cant unless youre a monk
my monk gets 66 ac with haste and +12 dex and wis gear
just another bullshit statement from commie

because you're a monk. you give up equipment slots and then don't get class features that match what you lost, in addition to not getting other class features (like shadow evade).

Last edited by Akhlys on Thu, Jun 16 2016, 0:12 AM, edited 1 time in total.

10 ac from expertise
another 6 of pm
may as well toss in 3 for stone bones
4 for shadow evade cause that 30s is really going to help
also another 6 from bard song
they have curse song so ill add 2 ac more to act as theyre ab penalty
finally add 5 ac because i have epic dodge
= +36 of your actual ac

there we go, build math for amians done

do you really not see how 66 walking around AC is easy to get for dex weapon masters?

edit; also i think the ol pale-master rdd gets the highest ac.

Not that I'm planning to request anything, but if someone wished, could they have an item that has been nerfed refunded or partially refunded?

Yes. DC items are being examined on a case by case basis.

Simpler-ish AC Math
Base 10
Tumble 6
Armor Skin 2
Shield 1-3
Armor/Shield/Deflect(Ring/Cloak)/Natural(Ammy) 20
Dodge 10-20 (5 for Boots, 1 for Mage armor, 4 for haste. 10 more possible from things like EMA/Divine Shield/Bard song. Dodge cap is 20)
Armor base + Dex mod = 9 Full plate - ~14 Dex cloth

Full plate + Tower shield AC Cap = 70
38 Dex Cloth + Tower Shield = 75

Additional sources of AC
Small stature - 1 (Can't use Tower shield)
RDD - 2-4
Pale Master- 2-12
Expertise/Imp. Expertise- 5/10

Likely highest AC you'll see on Amia is a Cleric/Sorc/20PM in full plate with Divine Shield at 89AC. You could sneak in a few more with Dex, especially if you have a Bard for the song AC.
((Tumble cross class = 3AC))

lilmarcat wrote:

Simpler-ish AC Math
Base 10
Tumble 6
Armor Skin 2
Shield 1-3
Armor/Shield/Deflect(Ring/Cloak)/Natural(Ammy) 20
Dodge 10-20 (5 for Boots, 1 for Mage armor, 4 for haste. 10 more possible from things like EMA/Divine Shield/Bard song. Dodge cap is 20)
Armor base + Dex mod = 9 Full plate - ~14 Dex cloth

Full plate + Tower shield AC Cap = 70
38 Dex Cloth + Tower Shield = 75

Additional sources of AC
Small stature - 1 (Can't use Tower shield)
RDD - 2-4
Pale Master- 2-12
Expertise/Imp. Expertise- 5/10

Likely highest AC you'll see on Amia is a Cleric/Sorc/20PM in full plate with Divine Shield at 89AC. You could sneak in a few more with Dex, especially if you have a Bard for the song AC.
((Tumble cross class = 3AC))

think smurfiblin +3 dodge ac would add to that? as well as the sick sr and +2 dex.

Dodge only stacks to 20.

To go back to the main point of this

Out of curiosity, what is happening to Magic Immunity X% on armours and such? or is that deemed acceptable in it's level of power?

CautiousDread wrote:

To go back to the main point of this

Out of curiosity, what is happening to Magic Immunity X% on armours and such? or is that deemed acceptable in it's level of power?

Woah that's a thing?

AFAIK there was only ever magic resistance put on items, not the % immunity.

Fro what I am aware of, there was exactly one item with magic immunity % and it was removed long before I even left the first time.

Sorry if I missed this question being answered already earlier on .. TL:DR XD

But, are there any RP/IC explanations as to why these items have changed?
I suppose the potions could have "expired", but some changes on other items are very distinct.
A character that might have been better with a certain style of combat based off the items might be suddenly faced with.. "Damn, I suck now."

Don't get me wrong, I like balances being put in place when something is overpowered, but it'd be neat to see an IC reason for why it happens. Maybe some explosion in the weave, some force targeting items across the isle/world that threaten them, etc etc.

TormakSaber wrote:

Fro what I am aware of, there was exactly one item with magic immunity % and it was removed long before I even left the first time.

Magic's little foe, 25% immunity to magic, but it made you take 5% more from all physical types of damage.

That's the item you were thinking of.

LeathanKayne wrote:

But, are there any RP/IC explanations as to why these items have changed?

"The Weave randomly changes/explodes/fucks itself" is literally the laziest and overused explanation in our setting. With "gods did it" coming in as as a close second. If it's nothing that can actually be used to advance a plot or interacted with or resolved into a different outcome(which dev changes cannot/will not) then I'd much rather it be handwaved. Anything else is kidding ourselves and needlessly frustrating. I personally don't care about why the changes happened IC if the ultimate result of any IC inquiry into it is going to be "it happened, no it can't be changed, no you can't influence anything dealing with it we're just back-explaining, deal with it."

What I guess I'm still waiting on re: IGMS now that resistance to magic isn't even possible is why should a mage bother with any other damaging effect? I like the aim of what we're trying to do, but as with many dev changes, they can misfire. If Max IGMS is such a cakewalk to deal with, then what makes people expect mages to switch and use elemental stuff when they are even more easy to mitigate, even with these changes? The magic missile series have no save except for SR. Everything else that does damage has to fight its way through SR PLUS possible (full to partial)immunity, resistance, Reflex saves which will halve the damage, Evasion which will nullify it, and IE which will either nullify it and is guaranteed to at least halve it.

Feel free to correct my math. At a glance, just looking at other damaging spells of similar level...

Quote:

Lv 30 Maximized IGMS: Slot 9, 2d6 x 10 -> 2x6x10 to Three Targets or less damage if there are more
Damage = 120 Magic(guaranteed and irresistible)
Hazards: SR, damage is dolled out over a few seconds and being lucky in the action cycle can mean your heal stalls it, If you're fighting more than 3 people you will do less damage than max to each

Lv 30 Meteor Swarm: Slot 9, 30d4 Fire 30d4 ~ Averages to 30d2.5 + 30d2.5
Damage: 150 Fire & Bludgeoning(average and resistible)
Hazards: Fire is an abundantly common resistance, Requires you as a mage to be close(but not too close, or no damage!), SR, Reflex Save, Immunity, Resistance, Evasion, IE

Lv 20+ Empowered Fireball: Slot 9, 30d6 (because of the way nwn adds empower, technically 20d6 + same 20d6 result/2) so 20d3.5 + (20d3.5)/2
Damage: 105 Fire(average and resistible)
Hazard: Fire is an abundantly common resistance, SR, Reflex Save, Immunity, Resistance, Evasion, IE

Lv 20+ Maximized Chain Lightning: Slot 9, 20d6 -> 20x6
Damage: 120 Electricity(average and resistible)
Hazards: Maximum damage only effects first (1) target, SR, Reflex Save, Immunity, Resistance, Evasion, IE

Lv 25+ Horrid Wilting: Slot 8, 25d8 Magical ~ Averages to 25d4.5
Damage: 112.5 Magic(average, irresistible but OH so easily avoidable)
Hazards: Sorry you're never beating anyone's goddamn Fort save on anything but a 1 so basically assume half damage 95% of the time, SR, Necromancy Immunity

Lv 15+ Maximized Firebrand/Cone of Cold: Slot 8, 15d6 -> 15x6
Damage: 90(average and resistible)
Hazards: Fire/Cold is an abundantly common resistance(can avoid with BoT with CoC), [Cone of Cold]Cone attacks hit your own summons and aren't guaranteed to hit all of a group of enemies if they're all still moving, SR, Reflex Save, Immunity, Resistance, Evasion, IE, and there is even one item that outright gives Immunity: Spell - Cone of Cold

If the answer to IGMS is just to heal through it with heal kits, why is that not the answer to every mage damage spell? Why should mage damage even be an issue? Why have certain spells continued to be the popular choice in PVP as it has been for years despite of the tactics that are supposed to make it a cakewalk? We can tout whatever counters on paper, but at the end of the day, the resulting world where it still appears to be hands down the best choice either means the strategies just aren't that easy/intuitive/fun to use OR a large portion of our playerbase of the years is unduly stupid/lazy/noobish(tough words, but I'm including myself in those categories if that is indeed the case).

TL;DR: If Maximized IGMS is so shit, what the flip does that make a mage's other damaging options, even after these changes? Especially after these changes?

Maybe IGMS isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but in comparison to the other options, it's golden. "The elemental spells have a chance to do more damage, though!". Really? A chance? Newsflash, RNGesus hates you and the hell he sends you to is called NWN. Banking on the RNG to deliver you above the max is a bad bet. I love Empower. But I honestly think the most times it's put me over max damage is maybe 2-3 times a year. That's why the two god-kings of PvP spell damage have always been Max IGMS and Max Ice Storm. Additionally, expecting to get through someone's Reflex/Evasion/Resistance/Immunity to do your average damage, let alone your maximum damage, is foolhardy.

If IGMS is fine in the aftermath of this, cool. Just as long as we, as a group, realize that without it coming down a peg or the elemental spells gaining some sort of yet-to-be-seen mojo, we've likely done all jack squat with these changes as far as standard PvP is concerned, which I assume they were geared toward's what with the bulk of the changes being PC item related.

Quote:

Just as long as we, as a group, realize that without it coming down a peg or the elemental spells gaining some sort of yet-to-be-seen mojo, we've likely done all jack squat with these changes as far as standard PvP is concerned, which I assume they were geared toward's what with the bulk of the changes being PC item related.

I'm genuinely not sure what to say if you think the removal of improved evasion, the reduction of immuntiy from 100% to 50%, the removal of 5/- magic and divine, and the removal of infinite spell mantle potions doesn't affect PvP. I'm not even sure where to start on an explanation of how it affects everything that isn't a rehash of everything that's been said over the last 4 pages, and rrankly, I think it's pretty insulting to everyone here, both the players who are directly affected and the people who did the work, to say what you are saying - that these changes accomplish nothing.

Standard PvP. Not everyone had Black Labels. It's been made abundantly clear to me that not everyone had Arcane Defiance, and I must assume the same with Evasion Rings. You can still get 100% immunity with two rings now. The divine resistance never affected anything in PvP other than Hammer of the Gods and a few DC weapons.

If you think for one second that my criticism of our game balance is a criticism of the people who do the work that keeps this server going, in whatever direction, then you have gravely misunderstood what honest and candid feedback is.

These changes are mostly good, the divine resistance change especially since it essentially rendered the divine might/shield feats entirely useless. And honestly the dr vs magic amia really nerfs one of the arcane casters most reliable damage spells unnecessarily on amia with how freedom gear works. I feel like amia is at a place where you don't need to farm epics to keep pace now, though I've felt that for a while. Get a +5 ab weapon and you're basically set on epics. AC is nice but with a consistent loadout you'll do fine

Edit: And blacklable while conceptually cool meant only friends of the brewer had them because they were request only. I made friends with the brewer and I can tell you that there were just a dirty advantage for non umd builds.

Second edit: Also the imp evasion change is the best tbh. No more dancing wizards, they've actually got to invest to get millage. Though most wizard builds with their salt have the feat on a class.

corypx wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Fro what I am aware of, there was exactly one item with magic immunity % and it was removed long before I even left the first time.

Magic's little foe, 25% immunity to magic, but it made you take 5% more from all physical types of damage.

That's the item you were thinking of.

That and we had Black Hand Equipment which I was relatively fond of back in the day, offered 5% Magic Immunity protection and some other stats.

Which I still hold on a couple of items.

Dark Immolation wrote:

TL;DR: If Maximized IGMS is so shit, what the flip does that make a mage's other damaging options, even after these changes? Especially after these changes?

Before the changes? Terrible options because while with IGMS someone could get an effective DR 50/- against you, most of the other options there people could have 100% resistances to because of elemental resistance rings and Improved Evasion. After? Far better options when engaging in groups of people, generally, but still not the best options outside of PVE. When a Weapon Master can easily do the same damage of your 'amazing' IGMS with each of their attacks, six times a round and has knock down on them you're not exactly going to be focusing on dealing damage in PVP - You never have and you never will. You just need to roll those save or suck/die spells with your fingers crossed and hope for the best.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

These changes are mostly good, the divine resistance change especially since it essentially rendered the divine might/shield feats entirely useless.

Divine Might ignores damage resistance.

CautiousDread wrote:

corypx wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Fro what I am aware of, there was exactly one item with magic immunity % and it was removed long before I even left the first time.

Magic's little foe, 25% immunity to magic, but it made you take 5% more from all physical types of damage.

That's the item you were thinking of.

That and we had Black Hand Equipment which I was relatively fond of back in the day, offered 5% Magic Immunity protection and some other stats.

Which I still hold on a couple of items.

Fuck me, those stupid Black Caravan items are still rolling around?

TormakSaber wrote:

Fuck me, those stupid Black Caravan items are still rolling around?

lol Crow's first major purchase was the panther boots, he still has them. Stood in line for for hours, and he spent everything he had, it was in Darkhold Keep haha Ah, the pre-ranger days, he was such a noob.

Since the divine resist property was just across the board removed from items, and a generic skill bonus put in its place, would it be futile to make a request to get THAT replaced with a skill I can actually use instead of "lol lore +5"?

Sorry. We won't let it be replaced with anything.

I've not caught wind of one for years mate, I don't think they're still in the module but I can't be sure.

Also, I don't really have a comment on how the arcane defiance runs in Amia now, because we're going to get a few spell changes in general. We can't say IGMS is unbalanced or balanced until we see how the new changes affect the rest of their spell books.

I would like to see a better compensation for the Arcane Defiance change because it's just been made redundant as spell mantle is not all that rare to come by, so to put it on a +5 armor is just abit needless when Fort or something could take its place and do much more.

I would also still like to see changes to the loot bin that are as simple as "Can we remove Parry gloves from it yet?"

Also, Maverick, I would urge the team to at least consider some better compensation. I agree, div resist was dumb, I never even bothered using it, actually. Should've took the chance whilst it was there, anyway. I just think 5 lore's basically you guys telling us to suck it. Possibly something as simple as a 1/per day stone skin would work, barkskin even. Just something.

TormakSaber wrote:

Fuck me, those stupid Black Caravan items are still rolling around?

I just used one of the BC mythals the other day, and I still have a 'homemade' ioun stone that I think might be a BC item. I probably have a few on my archived druid (as well as a few Thayvian crafting items!) but I don't play her any more.

We have considered it but the reality is:

It was an insanely easy to get quest item that let you bypass the mythal system cap on one item of your choice.

It is now removed, and it wouldn't be fair to give everyone who spent a whole fifteen minutes to run the quest a significant advantage over any new characters. The lore bonus is our form of compensation which we are hoping players can then use as a neat RP talking point.

I like the angle you're aiming for, but we all know that people with 0 Lore still talk about all forms of lore as though they're scholars on Amia.

Broldi wrote:

I like the angle you're aiming for, but we all know that people with 0 Lore still talk about all forms of lore as though they're scholars on Amia.

Well when someone ig tells you the lore I don't really think it's inappropriate to remember it or manually puzzle out the rest. Knowing a priest or lore master or being an older character means you're just going to know shit lore or no.

Akhlys wrote:

you cant unless youre a monk
my monk gets 66 ac with haste and +12 dex and wis gear
just another bullshit statement from commie

edit: my bad, dexers that use tower shields get similar ac too
no one is getting above 63 ac without haste or other buffs
expertise doesnt count

Saw your edit. Why don't expertise or imp expertise count? Some people keep that stuff on 24/7.

Maverick00053 wrote:

We have considered it but the reality is:

It was an insanely easy to get quest item that let you bypass the mythal system cap on one item of your choice.

It is now removed, and it wouldn't be fair to give everyone who spent a whole fifteen minutes to run the quest a significant advantage over any new characters. The lore bonus is our form of compensation which we are hoping players can then use as a neat RP talking point.

I'm with Broldi, the sentiment is appreciated, but a smudge of Lore is as close to nothing as one can get. Neat, but RP talking point it is not. Lore is the squishiest of the non-mechanical skills because even if you don't have the Lore to know something, someone can ICly explain it to you once and boom, now you know it anyway.

Also reminds me though, I never got my essence back from Gorgo after it busted my junk and I had to remove it. >_>

Why not go +5 spellcraft instead? Then you get +1 uni. saves versus spells, and it means it keeps it in line with being 'arcane defiance'.

Spellcraft is a trained skill. If you haven't invested in it, you can't get a bonus in it. And if you invest in it, you better invest more than a bare minimum, otherwise stuff like Curse Song will actually make you end up taking more of a penalty from having a negative Spellcraft score(which you can't get without investing in it).

I don't have a suggestion for what the resistance should be replaced with, I merely meant to say that +5 lore is less of a nothing than the 5/- Divine was, which surprisingly is more than nothing in comparison.

To be honest, anyone that used the Temporal Essence should feel lucky they got anything. Originally, it was just going to be remove the 5/- Divine and give nothing in return. I didn't even know +5 Lore was given until someone mentioned it.

So, why are we fussing over this?

Naivatkal wrote:

To be honest, anyone that used the Temporal Essence should feel lucky they got anything. Originally, it was just going to be remove the 5/- Divine and give nothing in return. I didn't even know +5 Lore was given until someone mentioned it.

So, why are we fussing over this?

Lore's a good skill m8. I like having my cloak with 3 5's on it. I'm not fussing at all.

Commie wrote:

Lore's a good skill m8. I like having my cloak with 3 5's on it. I'm not fussing at all.

Umm... what? 3 5's? as in 3x 5 lore on one cloak?? Didn't know that was possible...

I dunno if this is a thing or not.... but could we just take issacs poopy missle storm out of the game completely, and just say fuck it?

That Guy wrote:

Commie wrote:

Lore's a good skill m8. I like having my cloak with 3 5's on it. I'm not fussing at all.

Umm... what? 3 5's? as in 3x 5 lore on one cloak?? Didn't know that was possible...

I do believe here is the reference to +5 bonus for three separate skills.

That being said, is it still possible to get +5 lore bonus? Or those who had missed the quest are forevermore deprived of it?

Okay. So, the more we learn, the more lore we're supposed to have, except you still learn things at no matter what level with no matter what lore. The lore skill is as much an indication to a persons knowledge of the world around them as a thermostat is to the distance I can throw. Still, I like the angle, but lore's so useless.

If we're to learn more of what we experienced in that fight, have one of the guys up top tell us what it is we just killed, where it came from, why it's there. In my opinion, no offense, to give us +5 lore and say "you know stuff now" is lazy and uneducating. I still don't know what the phane is or why it's trapped below Cordor other than that Glim tried making a dungeon got bored and left.

As it is, I'd be happier now if the lore bonus was accompanied with some actual knowledge, because lore as a skill, in itself, is only good if a guy wants to save a tiny bit of gold to ID items, or to reach prereqs for a class.

Less on topic, I was wondering if there were plans for that place, because as it stands our characters are still in the dark about what that place is other than vague ties to Netherese lore. Specifically I'm talking about the Labyrinth.

That Guy wrote:

Commie wrote:

Lore's a good skill m8. I like having my cloak with 3 5's on it. I'm not fussing at all.

Umm... what? 3 5's? as in 3x 5 lore on one cloak?? Didn't know that was possible...

5 saves 5 ac 5 lore.

It's called 'Der Übercloak.' Like all my 'custom' named items, it has a name deeply rooted in philosophy. Nietzsche/Zarathustra (spelling) believed the Übermensch appeared alongside/tied into the death of God, in this case arcane defiance gear, which killed magic. With 'God' gone, there is no source of values or morals, or in Amia's case, magic (interpreted here more easily as magical balance) which now runs wild and unchecked. However, like the Übermensch, it is because those things no longer exist that true change, new values, can exist. This is represented by the incoming spell changes, which, in and of itself, is a nerf to God, or the necessity to artificially control magic in Amia's case.

edit; Amarice helpfully corrected my German. It should have been Der Übercloak, not Das, or more correctly, "Der Übermantel." Alas my understanding of German is far far less then my understanding of nihilism. Naturally I will correct this in game.

Broldi wrote:

Okay. So, the more we learn, the more lore we're supposed to have, except you still learn things at no matter what level with no matter what lore. The lore skill is as much an indication to a persons knowledge of the world around them as a thermostat is to the distance I can throw. Still, I like the angle, but lore's so useless.

If we're to learn more of what we experienced in that fight, have one of the guys up top tell us what it is we just killed, where it came from, why it's there. In my opinion, no offense, to give us +5 lore and say "you know stuff now" is lazy and uneducating. I still don't know what the phane is or why it's trapped below Cordor other than that Glim tried making a dungeon got bored and left.

As it is, I'd be happier now if the lore bonus was accompanied with some actual knowledge, because lore as a skill, in itself, is only good if a guy wants to save a tiny bit of gold to ID items, or to reach prereqs for a class.

Less on topic, I was wondering if there were plans for that place, because as it stands our characters are still in the dark about what that place is other than vague ties to Netherese lore. Specifically I'm talking about the Labyrinth.

The Lore represents meeting, fighting, and defeating a creature that most people have never heard of, and of those that have heard of it, aren't sure it exists, and of those that know it exists, will certainly never ever meet one - The Phane.

Commie wrote:

That Guy wrote:

Commie wrote:

Lore's a good skill m8. I like having my cloak with 3 5's on it. I'm not fussing at all.

Umm... what? 3 5's? as in 3x 5 lore on one cloak?? Didn't know that was possible...

5 saves 5 ac 5 lore.

It's called 'Der Übercloak.' Like all my 'custom' named items, it has a name deeply rooted in philosophy. Nietzsche/Zarathustra (spelling) believed the Übermensch appeared alongside/tied into the death of God, in this case arcane defiance gear, which killed magic. With 'God' gone, there is no source of values or morals, or in Amia's case, magic (interpreted here more easily as magical balance) which now runs wild and unchecked. However, like the Übermensch, it is because those things no longer exist that true change, new values, can exist. This is represented by the incoming spell changes, which, in and of itself, is a nerf to God, or the necessity to artificially control magic in Amia's case.

edit; Amarice helpfully corrected my German. It should have been Der Übercloak, not Das, or more correctly, "Der Übermantel." Alas my understanding of German is far far less then my understanding of nihilism. Naturally I will correct this in game.

nihilists are a bunch of cry babies

Okay, so my Toon Nova has a Arcane Defense Large shield which under the description it says Impossible to remove, this item bares the symbol of a black eye upon an unobtrusive surface. In light grey text.

Armor Bonus +4
Damage immunity Magical 5% immunity bonus
Enchantment Bonus Wisdom +1

So with the item changes, will my Toon be doomed to always wear this new version of shield?

TormakSaber wrote:

The Lore represents meeting, fighting, and defeating a creature that most people have never heard of, and of those that have heard of it, aren't sure it exists, and of those that know it exists, will certainly never ever meet one - The Phane.

Except for, you know, that huge keep and portal in the middle of town with guards standing over it, having seen dozens of adventurers go through and come back from fighting it. >_>

The point is I don't think anyone here is fussing, merely point out a fault or two in lore being a "replacement" for something like the Phane essence. Something like a unique power, hell, even a VFX effect, could have done. Or something like an initiative boost, where in RP you could still say the Phane's essence let you slip through time a bit easier. I don't know, what's done is done, the people upstairs had been waiting to take the Phane outback of the woodshed and shoot it for some time now. I thought it was cool(when it worked) and was looking forward to other Abomination raid bosses for a while. If not as a feature, at least in an event or something.

i don't see a need to be compensated for something that shouldn't have been in from the beginning and also didn't follow the established mythal system.

I mean, the mythal system isn't God. DC items go beyond the mythal system all the time. The only thing is there is there is a team of DMs to fuss over yay or nay in what ways it goes beyond that system. In a way, it's understandable that it would be nixed then, in that it circumvented that. But all the Divine DR was there to do was make it easier to fight the Phane the next time around. It didn't do shit for anything else. So on the other side of that coin, it could be argued that the DR was fine on basically any item, because it only had one main application. Adding /5- Divine DR didn't make your ax more powerful, or your armor necessarily better, or any of that. Maybe you could tack it onto your most powerful item, but having it there and not on some interchangeable ring or lesser item really didn't make a difference; it got applied wherever it was and only had one main application.

I personally disagree with it, I feel there may have been some external things that factored into this choice, but it is largely done as far as I see. But the lesson here, in my opinion, isn't that something extraneous to the mythal crafting system is bad. Hell, I would LOVE it if we had other ways to craft things IC, magical, non-magical, whatever. But the way these things would interact, stack, not stack, and so on would have to be roundly agreed upon. Hopefully in such a way that future stewards wouldn't want to(or have to?) go back and do things like this in the future.

So with the removal script updated to now remove divine immunity too, were those items also not supposed to gain +5 Lore or something? If so, it doesn't appear to have gone through.

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