Exactly that, just add a ranged touch component to each missile, sort of like Manticore Spikes. And Epic Dodge only works on the first attack of each round, so sure, you can dodge the first missile, whatever. But the touch attack component adds in several other factors that make the spell much more manageable for people who can't just GS, or summon a buddy, or what have you. Sword and Board folk. Even if you can't get high AC to beat the rolls, something like a Ghostly Visage potion would give you a chance to avoid a small portion of the damage.



It's accessible in the way that it at least exists in the game world. I think you've misunderstood what I meant when I said "accessible". You have a chance of getting it. Now you don't. It's that simple. And rarely do you ever actually get what you yourself want from an epic boss, you trade for it, or end up getting it from an auction. Not every auction ends with some old time bidding 15 million, and it's very disingenuous to make it seem like that is always the case. The shit that that money gets bid on is very rare. Even so, the 5/- magic was accessible in terms of DC items, which now literally can get bought for you by another player. There were means to getting that DR without being an old millionaire. And with our Dex penalty to armors being changed, even if you don't get a Plate, you can probably make an Arcane Defence Chain or Leather work with a few gear swaps. There are options.

And as far as checking my privilege, the second you say something like that is the second I'm really can't take the content of the point or suggestion seriously.



Sorry, no. As it has been said multiple times in this thread, the 32 SR you can get from equipment is not going to matter to a full caster. Anything that gets SR high enough to not worry about IGMS isn't worried about mages in general at that point. When I speak of balance with IGMS at least, I'm talking 1v1, and in particular the instances where that 1v1 becomes super unfavorable to one side. It's literally an equation. All PvP once you take out HiPSing and GS and other things is basically an equation. How much damage I'm doing to you per round vs how much damage you're doing to me per round. A heal potion will save you once, yes. But not the 3 or 4 times you'd need it to. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm more concerned about the people that already get bodied by mages, who can't UMD or use scrolls, or the other crutches that have cropped up because magic just wipes its ass with non-magic in the setting.



Exactly. "Healing through" works for things like Greater Ruin and Hellball. It's not a strategy for anything repeatable with the way our Heal is set up now. And I swear to the Old Ones, the second someone earnestly suggests buying and carrying around a stack of player-crafted Greater Restoration is the answer to this or any problem for meleers is the day I throw my monitor through the wall.

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Sorry you actively chose to ignore heal kits, which can heal upwards of 90 to 100 HP with a single kit and can be used twice a round with no AoO so while they burn level 9 spell slots you're becoming a magic mummy and spending like 500 gold.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

This is incredibly illegal btw and like if I was feeling spicy I might actually ust DM teleport you into the face of the guy you're fighting so he can crit you. Don't do this, ever.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Yeah... Same for Shadow Jump, in case that wasn't clear.

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I should really rebuild and put more points into the Heal skill!

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

Well if you have over 400 hp (500+ is even easier with non-magic builds) which is very very obtainable without farming +5 bosses, it really really limits what damage they can do. 80% of your health right back as a half-action, heal kits on top of that; it's slow predictable reliable non-spiking damage anyone can heal through. They can only cast so many igms. With full progression heal (which people should have) you get even more back on top of that, and it's also fast as hell and has no risk involved. There are tons of other methods of healing available as well. Thats why builds that only do damage blow.

It's why damage is the shittiest way to kill someone. Just heal. There are so many ways to heal in this game and if they are using their igms then all you have to do is click a few buttons, buttons they can't even challenge because they are immobile and only casting igms.

Plus, again, check your item privilege. If you really think magic is somehow only balanced only because a super-rare armor set exists and by using your connections you managed to get a set, that's a problem.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

That's pretty insane and would ruin the spell. Not to mention I don't know how the server would handle it if a few mages decided to cast igms all at once and it had to resolve like 120 potential attacks every 3 seconds for 12 seconds.



Yeah, like you said it's rare when ye old tyme pc's bid on items, they usually only do it for rare and powerful ones. Like arcane defiance gear. Which was so stupid good it boggled the mind. The sheer amount of people here saying it was a cornerstone of caster pvp balance speaks to that.



You do know you can get SR from places other than arcane defiance gear right? Also talking about 1v1; heal through it. IGMS is at its most deadly when you can't do things to heal, ex, someone knocks you down with a true strike ikd and his pal explodes you. In a 1v1 it's arguably at its least dangerous despite being at its highest damage.



You get in a fight, they time stop, ruin hellball and sync it right so they hit at the same time, then channel igms 6 times. Drink a heal pot, spam heal kits (which heal a lot given it's 2x/round) and live through it. I do it and it's fine and im clearly not geared as well as some.

Seriously, guys, the spell only does damage and there are like 7/8 good reliable ways to heal yourself here.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Tangent to the discussion above and in general to the topic: I lack the empiricism to know what's happened in the meta recently, but back in the day the good mages followed the rule of Know Your Enemy. Their OPness was based in the duality of 1) having several means to instagib or disable your enemy with (that often succeeded a Mordy's), and 2) the mage's own elusiveness (Haste+Premonition+GS) or low-cost high AC that allowed for saves-efficient gearing. The Know Your Enemy was knowing which build had trouble cementing which saves in order to opt for the most effective spells. A lot of those tools have either been toned down or removed, but I'd still imagine a competent mage could outwit one's opponent with the appropriate spell arsenal. I think these changes validate a few more options for mages, namely damaging spells, and flavour-wise I think it's a good addition to the casters' playstyle. In my humbledore, Balance is inferior to making the game fun and versatile (not meaning to imply they are mutually exclusive), and playing NWN (read: Amia) smartly still requires a lot more insight than people give it credit for. Evasion to Imp Evasion isn't a consequential buff so neither is the nerf and the halving of the immunity rings mainly affects PvM.

EDIT: In the future it'd be good policy if the DMs presented changes with appropriate rationale, thank you!

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

Clerics can get up to 42 Spell Resistance, Drow and Svirfneblins get 39 and Monks get at least 40 and 52 SR (assuming they take nothing but Imp. Spell Resistance feats)

A pure caster rolls 37-56 on their spell penetration check.

Assuming I've not overlooked any changes to Amia's mechanics.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Yeah, it's class specific or race specific. Taking one of the big advantages (39+ sr) of being one of those things and just tossing it on an item (as some people bemoan the 32 sr on arcane defiance gear) severely cheapens those that have actually invested into it.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

You cannot get more than 32 SR on an item, however. Unless the Amia hak has changed that. It doesn't go above 32 in the toolset.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Ehh....



Eh. Were there potions I didn't know about? Access to Imp Invis is pretty standard (and in terms of balance for this server, mandatory to fight spawns reasonably) and downing premonition pots are no big deal since they're gone in 60. Were there any other meaningful potions? I can't think of any. As it was, a well-built melee character without magic could survive with an II pot or so and without it was pretty much suicide. Now removing those seems close to becoming Arelith, ie, "Abandon all hope, ye without a spellbook."



I honestly don't know what this is referencing. VI what?



Horse hockey. Unsavable, unresistable damage is not balanced or reasonable in the least. And no, SR isn't a reasonable check. Access to a reasonable amount of SR doesn't exist in this server unless you're a 40 cleric/druid/monk or near it. Casters shouldn't be able to splurt a big pile of damage on you with no checks at all. And 5/- is now something to whine about when the damage in question comes in unsavable/unresistable forms? ... really?



I'm fine with IE being moved to just E since you have to have good saves to make it work. The -2 is unnecessary (seriously, wtf). Some things need re-balancing (looking at you ridiculous static traps and especially the traps at Bidoc...).

Immunity rings and "Arcane Defiance" items for the most part have now become garbage. 50% isn't hard to get as it is, so now rings in the drop list are a booby prize nearly as useless as Gloves of Epic Swordplay. 75% would have made sense, 50 just means nobody wants rings anymore because you can get that in a bottle or at a button press. (Now that cold has no reasonable check or balance so Ice Storm is overpowered... again.)

The game needed balances towards this direction, but not *this* far and some of these choices were just mind-boggling. On the flip side, there's still broken, overpowered spells that are pretty much instant win yet. (Bigby's stands out - still.)

Imo, it seems Amia is going the way of every server with it's power-creep and that's disappointing. "High Magic. Except magical items. Those will become more terrible over time."

My problem isn't with the concept of the changes overall. It's the "reasonablity" of where the needle landed (and in some cases, the needle didn't need moving at all - like magic/divine resist).

This doesn't even touch on the fact that unless you're very specific, very narrow builds a melee character cannot maintain endgame "combat-level" gear and get reasonable saves (or detection skills). Meanwhile it's easy for caster builds to saunter around perma-hasted with every save 35+, AC scores 70-85+ and 600-800+ HP with Acid Sheaths if you can even manage to roll that 20.

Viva the wizard and palemaster!



Too late.



They already exist, it's called Armor Class and believe me, casters can get so much of it they're pretty much unhittable without 20s and Dev Crit is a sad, sad joke atm since anybody and their dog has a fort 40+ if they want it. (And even if you got lucky enough to land, downing one Remove Blindness/Deafness pot will fix it.)

If only mages had entire spellbooks full of options and didn't need to rely on just one element...

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

Mind sharing that build with us? I am awful curious how you manage half those scores nevertheless all together.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

Yeah I'm also curious how to get an ac of 85+ on my wizard.

I thought only the stupid palemaster rdd gimmick build could get that high and that build is ass

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

I've got a pure Palemaster and I've got 80 AC, roughly 40 Fort save to my Necromancy spells.. But I don't have 300 or more HP. If 300, no where near 600.

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yeah and that's specifically PM which gets a bigass ac bonus.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

This topic clearly illustrates something I've felt has always been one of Amia's main problems. Knowledgeable, experienced people have voiced their disagreement with the MR change here and explained, often in depth, why that is the case. They get rebuffed by DMs and Devs with flimsy shit like "implementing MR was a stupid decision" and "you can always turn 180 degrees and run" - seriously? Intentionally or not, you hold yourselves so above those who don't hold an "official position" that you never bend to revert any of the infamous "team decisions" that get soundly disputed, with the singular exception of panther models for anyone who still remembers that.

I agreed with the rest of the changes, sans the -2 reflex, but the MR change is so bad that it makes me subject myself to much loathed Amia forum culture in hopes of helping balance a server I barely play on anymore. Borrowing your own style of rhetoric for further emphasis: don't buff mages. It's stupid. You already buffed Acid Sheath. Don't punish people who grinded for hours on an end to acquire a meaningful defense against an overpowered spell, or worse, spent their precious DCs for the purpose.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

How does one get a pure Palemaster?

[/quote]I've got a pure Palemaster and I've got 80 AC, roughly 40 Fort save to my Necromancy spells.. But I don't have 300 or more HP. If 300, no where near 600.[/quote]

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Deacon Lott-Merchant

I've got a pure Palemaster and I've got 80 AC, roughly 40 Fort save to my Necromancy spells.. But I don't have 300 or more HP. If 300, no where near 600.[/quote][/quote]


I used a word, I suppose, is inappropriate. Instead of Pure, I mean primarily, considering it is a prestige class and you can't go "pure."

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Knowledgeable, experienced people have also explained in depth why it shouldn't have gone in. You don't get to cherry pick.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

That's exactly the kind of arrogant response I expected from you. A half-baked, sarcastic echo of a single point I made that supposedly trumps my entire post. It doesn't. The fact of the matter is that a smaller handful of experienced people have made a mistake and are being called out for it by a larger whole of experienced people. If you don't listen to your players, you're liable to lose them. Pretend for a minute that titles don't make people here.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

I think the MR should've stayed in, I don't believe it was broken in any way because there was literally one item that gave it, an epic item that you need a very specific piece of depending on your class/build. It's rare for people to even get them any more. We need more resistance to spells that do straight damage with no saves.

The divine one I don't care for because there's so few things throwing flat divine damage at you minus the hellwenches it's easily ignored.

Black label pots, sure, don't care for 'em, never did. Pointless imo.

The immunity rings, again, I don't think they needed nerfing, because it only made you immune to one element at a time. Maybe make them unable to be mythal'd would be a better solution in my mind, because still you're only immune to one source of damage.

As for the evasion change, I'm fine with, but again, the -2 reflex is just pointlessly shouting "ICE STORM ME SOME MORE".

I feel like this whole set of changes was done by a wizard massaging his op'nis. That said, I just made an evo focus druid so let the fun begin. I hope you all rolled your rogues for imp evasion, if not, taste more ice storms Amia!

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MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF

Ice Storm doesn't offer a saving throw, homes.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

The hell does it roll reflex for then every time I use it? o.O

Only played casters like twice.

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MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF

I'm not basing the statement of "experienced, knowledgeable people" around titles, or anything but the actual direct experience and knowledge that those people have.. You're reading meaning into statements that aren't there. I don't even really know who you are first hand, outside of secondhand comments about you (many of which come from the people you're arguing at and yelling at and saying are stupid - and all of them were positive comments about you, your knowledge of the server, and your general mechanical ability.), except seeing you a little bit on Sion, so I'm not really sure where the direct attack on me comes from, tbh, or why you feel the need to make it when I'm the one taking the time to actually address every concern coming up in the topic. This is something I wouldn't be bothering to do if I was just trying to make some sweeping administratve change without listening to people. Large group vs smaller group is pretty subjective here: Let's just be honest and say that both sides arguing are their respective sides vocal minorities, because that's what these discussions boil down to.

The fact of the matter is though, that some changes are not diplomatic, and if you reverted every single change every time a single knowledgeable person complained, no change or progress would ever get made on the server due to a lack of an existent hivemind (which is a good thing.). At the end of the day, you need to make changes and make progress and move forward with them. Did I say 5/- magic was stupid? Yes, I did. Grinding out an item with a fraction of a percent chance to 1/2 the damage of a level 9 spell making it useless to the point where it was no longer cast except when fighting +5 bosses was a very stupid decision. It was a shitty way to balance and provide a fix to what was perceived as a problem at the time. Divine DR was also a stupid decision, because it only nerfs spells like Searing Light, Sunbeam, and Hammer of the Gods, and literally no one thinks those spells are overpowered, and you can't even say it takes the edge off Divine Might becasue it doesn't affect Divine Might's damage. I'll stand by that statement. Not once did I ever say that IGMS wasn't good, but a mage that just stands still a spams that is going to be dead. A mage that is actually playing the game and using their spells and wins while using it is doing what a mage is supposed to be doing anyways, which is using their entire spell repertoire.

The 5/- also had the collateral damage "benefit" of completely destroying Magic Missile (but Shield and Ghostly Visage and Ethereal Visage could do that, so that one's genuinely no big deal), completely destroying ILMS (which is a pretty reasonable spell but rendered useless by 5/- magic just like the same reason no one ever runs Ball Lightning vs Firebrand), and nerfing a tiny bit off damage off Horrid Wilt and Sunburst (neither needed to be affected). If the intention was to affect paladins BGs and clerics by removing the Divine Favor damage and Battletide damage: It doesn't do that either for the same reason Divine DR doesn't stop Divine Might. It was an extremely poorly implemented (massive massive grind for tiny chance circulated only among the bossrunners or the rich) massive sledgehammer (affecting or purporting to affect many things rather than the one spell you wnated to affect) to over nerf (120 -> 70 damage with only 5/0 Dr is actuallt 50/- DR vs the spell, 10 times what the effect is) a spell into oblivion. (The spell was never actually cast anymore outside PvM, because the mere existence of Arc-Def meant you had to assume your opponent was wearing it at all times, and spending a very long animation cast time spell on 70 damage when it let your opponent, probably a WM or a barbarian or some other meleer, close to melee range was absolutely suicide. This led to the creation and prevalence of the Timestop -> Hellball Ruin gambit.) If the intention was to nerf IGMS, then holy shit, nerf the damn spell, don't introduce a property that affects a billion things along with the one hyper specific nerf to the spell you want to do that also makes the spell so bad no one casts it because the threat of the nerf's existence makes no one cast the spell.

Balance is a constantly moving target and things always get revisited.

((PS: Ice Storm is still nullified to shit tier uselessness by 50% cold immunity if you have the ring or by a decent amount of cold damage off a gills ring and the physical damage is +0 mundane meaning any DR smashes through it, it's less damage than IGMS and a more easily found DR on items. This isn't decrying the value of the spell but rather to say that it, like IGMS can be beat and geared for even easier than Arc-Def.



You can hotkey swap rings in combat. ezpz. Be immune to whatever two elements you needed to be at that exact moment. Wear Acid all the time, swap between codl and fire with a button.



PS: For anyone who isn't aware of what Black Label offered in a potion, the fastest animation spell-casting ability in the game, effectivility infinite use no cooldown on demand as much as you wanted when you wanted it, because the only limitation was how bored your merchant was (and they were NOt bored judging by how many people I saw with entire magicbags full of every single potion type.), They were as follows:

Protection vs Spells CL 13 (so +8 saves vs spell - i.e. it didn't matter if your reflex was shit, IE had you covered forever on everything.)
Blackstaff CL 15 (stacks with item Vamp Regen.)
Premonition CL 15 (useless in PvP at any high-end level with geared out people but effectively infinite 30/- DR in PvM.)
Keen Edge CL 15 (gear up Keen forever, who needs perfects, dead mythals, RIP. Combo with Blacstaff pots)
Spell Mantle CL 13 Oh My God seriously just keep chugging those fuckers, you can drink them faster than they can Mordy you to get rid of it I guess tey can just cast Flame Arrow to sear it off you or hope they can Bigby you or something betwene mantles but good fucking luck, it's 1d8+8 spell levels so it's always going to absorb at least 2 IGMS or 1 full level 9 spell and probably more than that since it only takes 1 spell level left on a mantle to suckup a spell of any level.
True Seeing CL 9 (pretty tame actually tbh but the increased prevalence is not desireable - at least it's annoying to carry around eye Bracers.)
Imp Invis CL 7 (also actually pretty tame all things considered, but still an inccredibly marked advantage to nayone cool enough to be able to buy these en masse from their makers vs using wands or having mage friends. Shit I'd use these if I was a mage and just not mem II except for my summon or something.)

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Oh. Ok.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

How do you define who these people are?

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

My post wasn't intended to be a personal attack, Tormak, but more a show of frustration at the fact that this update (like all changes) was non-negotiable, no matter how thoroughly a regular player or more than one of them presented their case. I'm glad that you take the time to read and respond to this topic, although some of your more succinct responses border on the irksome - hence my previous response to you. To me personally, it's not a positive sign of consistency to never go back on these decisions your DM team makes, no matter the quantity or quality of the dissidents. I've been here long enough to know that this is the case. The "us" and "them" mentality is strong here and players are nearly completely unable to influence a change in the server balance. You need either orange, green or purple in your name for that, which is why I brought up titles before.

Has any of this changed now that you're back? I don't know yet. I certainly hope so, but after all this time, I can't say that I'm optimistic. For what it's worth, I think it's a good thing you're around again, even though we obviously disagree on some balance sentiments.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

Beastly initiative I gotta say. We've had this convo in the Winya group chat about balance many times.

However I have to hop onto the spaceship whose crew doesn't like the MR change. Mages have always been OP as shit and you just unbottled a can of whoopass for them that they don't need especially with the other changes. I'll bet 20 bucks that once you see these changes in action and how dominant mages will be just by using IGMS you'll change your minds about this. Doubt you'll change it back tho.

That said the Evasion change is good. Element change is also good. Those are changes I can live with and are actually interesting. The 5/ Magical bit isn't however.

Mages used to be OP as shit but now are shit. And subsequently mass hasting robots that tickle people, and that beg for their summons to replace them because they don't do anything themselves.

FTFY

Since bigby ain't coming back any time soon, mages will never enter the level of stupidity it had before. IGMS is no auto-win, unless you just stand there and do nothing for a long period of time.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

what do you mean isn't coming back bigsby is still here? "they're less broken than they were" is not the same as saying "they're balanced". i also find it funny how you can in the same post say: their summons are a-mei-zing, bigsby's still king, and while igms is just one of their 20-30 viable spells that is returned to it's "usable" status they have a plethora of other tricks up their sleeve that have never left them.

heal kits are broken, fix them, heal potions are broken, fix them too. don't go and do dumb shit like remove much-needed counters to a broken class in a poor roundabout manner of balance.

this is classic treating the symptoms balance, aka bad.

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bad man

I'm just glad we have knowledgeable, experienced people like Faded, Tormak, and Maverick on the DM team. This change was a long time coming.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

been that way for years, and with the buff of summons it's even more negligible. grasping hand is still a saveless touch attack insta-win.

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bad man

Solution is simple, be a strong man. I've resisted it many a time.

Or just attack whatever is attacking you while you're immobilized. If you can't beat a mummy dust you are the one with the problem.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Bigby's Forceful Hand pre-nerf was miles beyond the bigby shadows that remain in play. The current bigby is okay though easily avoidable (freedom helps) and not a death sentence even if you're stuck in it, since casting does tamper with it, and most summons can't hit many good builds even flatfooted.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Yeah I see that.



And who doesn't run around with +40 fort?

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

The simple fact remains that the 5/- magic resist was attached to epic armor. Epic armor that a majority of character simply do not have access to.

It was a simple case of if you have the magic resist mages were a joke.

If you didn't mages could actually be a threat outside of their summons.

There was no balance there to begin with. Even implying that super rare armor was a balancing factor against mages is a bit of a joke and a piss poor way to balance the server. WMs with pots and epic gear are king on the server, less so now.

Now with that said this isn't the end. We are watching and will be looking to change actual spells, etc as things develop and settle.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

Were you guys going to look at other perma spells-on-items, like Freedom or Fear Immunity on DC-only rings? I think those (partic the latter as it's DC request gear only!) could stand to get culled as well.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

i'd say the piss poor balance is ignoring the elephant in the room which is healing in favor of attacking damage mitigation which while does compound the issue of healing, doesn't solve the issue.

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bad man

Freedom is being talked about, but we're also looking at fixing other spells before freedom is altered.

As someone who paid for a DC item with the 5/- magic resistance I can personally say that it was a bit much considering that most magic damage comes in lots of small quantities. Tormak is right, what seems like a small thing with the lowest setting of 5/- amounts to a lot. As the player of a low hp character adding the 5/- amounted to what was effectively 90% Immunity in most situations and at worst 50% resistance to magic damage. I'd have argued that we just change it to 2/- or 3/- but we can't that.

I think the chief worry here is over sorcerers who might have 9 9th level spells to burn, since it's not likely that a wizard will set every 9th level slot to that one spell. So, this argument boils down to the epic item was supposed to balance out one ability of one class? I'd rather look at this a different way and fix igms. What if you couldn't maximize igms anymore?

The entire server was started with healing being worse than it is now. It has already been nerfed a long way with the cool down and reduced effectiveness. If we were to 'tackle' the healing situation you are talking about re-balancing the entire servers PvE environment, which we simply do not have the manpower for nor probably never will. Changing the entire servers dynamic is not an easy thing.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

one of the simplest changes would be halving it's effectiveness. make heal kit a full round action and double the rate of time it takes to get back to full (80%) heal. that in no way affects pvm in any substantial way because as i've seen it most encounters are meant to be doable with no heals or at the very most 1 heal throughout. this change would not change these encounters.

it would however make heal kitting less valuable in pvp which is the only place any of these changes affect.

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bad man

Don't quote me or name me in this. Thanks.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

So my cloak is useless now. Even if I wanted something as bad as lesser spell mantle, as a shifter it's far from practical.

Can I just have the epic that I traded in order to get the cloak in the first place back? It was an arcane defiance plate or something I think. Thanks.

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things mages get
65 ac with ema and haste
the ability to go int and con focus, both incredibly useful
240 damage a round that can only be reduced by either epic spell focued shield or spell mantles
60 damage every time someone hits them
bunch of cold and 18 physical aoe damage
a bunch of feats of their choosing and no shitty trap feat/skill reqs for prestige classes

the argument that the target has to stay still is retarded to say the least, you can target enemies with missile storm and ice storm
WM have to stand still to hit their enemies as well in addition to being melee
arcane archers get countered by their arrow costs but a rich archer serves the same purpose as a mage for damage
sneakers are the most consisent source of damage but get stopped by one skill vs the two skills they need to equip for
where do you get the ability to beat a mage here that any other class doesnt deal with?
heal and heal kits are just as effective against wm as mages except a mage can blast you with 1200 damage in 30 s whereas a wm can only get lucky on his threat rolls to get similar values
your balace is based around epic gear, buffs/items, and potion use so where am i lacking here? please fill in the other slots so i get a real picture of how shitty they are

wiz:
10 int from rings
5 dodge ac 3 con boots
6 universal saves on cape
freedom and more con on belt
3 more con on helm
damage resists vs common weapon damage types on items that stack with elemental resist spells from said items
shadow shield
+5 to all ability scores
5 minute long hastes

the only thing they have a weakness to is physical/divine/positive damage, which is shared with all classes on the server (including shifter now)
they literally have everything they could possibly need besides healing built in already then augmented by the spell and spell focus changes
these changes just allow people to dumb themselves down to wm levels in combat while maintaining utility and defense they had before

feats on items have always been stupid and all should be tanked not just evasion

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Dexers can get that w/o buffs. Dunbak has that just walking around and it doesn't fade away once an hour. Strength users can hit it too with imp expertise.



Pretty sure strengthers can go strength con and dexers can go dex con. Dex and strength are both incredibly useful too.



From an immobile source that's a limited resource and gets dramatically less effective with even single other warm-body nearby.



Breach that shit. Also I think mordes is really the op spell here as it's sort of a semi-obtainable solution to the 'caster' problem, buffs can be of whatever strength as long as its on the breach list... but mordes is also used by casters as others try and prevent casters from doing things, and it shreds spell resistance. Someone smarter then me can address mordes an its place on the server. It doesn't even have an interaction you just pop everything and then it 'interacts' with shit that's left but you likely don't care as bam six buffs thanks scroll.

But that's just me. The problem with this high item magic setting is that everyone has access to so many countermeasures when something exists without that expectation to counter via an item (igms) we get what we have here.



Just damage. Also limited use.



Really weapon master is the only class with super steep requirements and it's op as fuck so it had better have those. Not to mention some of the shit you have to get is actually good and you'd likely get it anyway. 15-20 x5 is absurd, 10-20x3 is also absurd. And unlike IGMS or other spells it never stops or turns off or has x number of uses.



WM also doesn't have an expiration date and can keep going forever as long as they have health. Casters cannot, so yes they should have a front-loaded edge.



If we're doing gear, literally anyone can do some variation of;

head +1 con +fort +other
torso +5 +1 con +fort
broken boots +3 dex
+3 dex freedom belt
ring +2 con + fort
+3 dex +1 con gloves
amulet +5 nat +1 con
shield +5 +1 con

and then just chug 2 pots to hit +12 in both your stats. you might have to get a pair of boots if you arn't dex or cant find a way to get the +3 somewhere else (you likely can) but other then that you can grind this all out yourself w/o bosses iirc in a really short time.



Arcane is good but I don't think it's as good as everyone makes it out to be. Remember all the 'have nots' have been dealing with maximized igms forever and I think it's really telling that now once everyone is equal, the complaints about igms come out.

as far as actual suggestions here's my personal opinion.

find a way to deal with mordes, tone back acid sheath somehow.

add basic (same as crouching lemur) +5 gear to some 'hidden' vendors so other people can easily get the basics, as well as a +5 and + physical dmg weapon vendor of some kind.

add +5 ac and +3 stat boots for every stat and make them purchasable from spooky/hidden vendors. it's mind boggling to me that this isn't already the case and you either need to farm 20 dc's or fish for an epic drop or farm up 5 million gold and hope someone is willing to part with a pair.

find dc gear that's been given out over the years and either cull it or re-balance it. why do +3 universal saves +3 stat rings exist and why do people have two of them, that sort of thing.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

I'd like an explanation how you get 65 AC with no buffs, please! Unless it's Expertise mode... then... yeah, of course you can.

Dex-Based warriors are very capable of hitting 60 / 65 AC easily. But a big part of that comes from gear. High Dex + Tumble +(+)5 AC = pretty high AC. You just have to know how to build.

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