Soo, hello guys!
I'm looking at the goblin race... and I have no idea what to do with it. Off the top of my head, I can think of very few physical classes that benefit from being a goblin: Rogue/Assassin, generally dex-classes, maybe monks (count as dex...), but most strenght based classes are actually worse being a gobo than any other race. Even kobolds have that almost free pass towards going DD. But tangents aside, somehow I can see goblins being archers. (maybe I watched/read too much LotR. I love LotR!)

So, of course goblins can't be arcane archers. Now, taking the races suggestion of "favored class: Rogue" into account, maybe a sneak based archer? A thing that makes me really sad is that crippling strike does not work with ranged weapons, otherwise I would just be happy.

Taking the free +2 Dex into account, I'm thinking he would start at 20 dex, going up to 27, with a great dex up to 28. "Buffed", this means 40 dex, so +15 mod. Then, weapon focuses would be a must, so +3 on AB. If I'm a pure rogue, I'd have 20 BAB, meaning 38 AB. Pros would be that epic dodge is easy to get, 11d6 sneak with a possibility of epic sneak attack; cons are the AB, reduced to 34 while using called shot... To raise my AB I could take levels in a high BAB class, such as fighter. This leaves me with a much lower sneak attack... Do you have any suggestions to make it a viable build?

Otherwise, do you guys have any suggestions on how to make goblins work?

Well, thanks a lot,
Yours sincerly,
Robbi320

Got some non-AA archer ideas:
18 rouge / 6 SD / 6 fighter
+ HIPS, Epic dodge, great dmg from sneaks, Epic Weapon Specialization for bow
- sneak immune creatures, until HIPS hard to solo


Ranger 21 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 5 or Ranger 23 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 3
+ good BAB, lot of stealth (but no hips, so corner hiding), Bane of Enemies, useful spells, animal, stable damage output
- lower damage than rouge, no hips, no epic dodge, Bane of Enemies is only for few groups

Thanks to Raua who helped me focus ideas that lead into these two builds

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

Hmm... I'm, looking at the Ranger one, seems interesting. AB against FE would be... what, around 48? (assuming permanent rapid shot) Seems too good to be true... 5 APR, against non-FE 46. Damage (normal arrows) 1d6+5+5(FE)+2d6(Bane)+3d6(sneak)=16-46. I'm assuming permanent Blade Thirst. Buffs for team, my own tank. Decent defense, most of all if I'm sneak attacking. I feel like this build gets along easier in low levels, since it has an animal companion. And he is still ok in melee.

I don't like SD builds. ;( I never know how to incorporate any sort of training, and then feel bad for using the abilities...

How important is discipline on an archer? I mean, I am scared of KD and such, but If I am that close, won't I be slaughtered with or without it? On the other hand, it's so good.
If I use called shot and reduce their dex to a -4 modifier, do plate armor wearers lose 4 AC or do they only lose 1? (assuming starting dex of 10) It usually has max dex AC of 1. How does that carry over to negatives?

Negative DEX has the full negative modifier to AC, even in plate.

_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"

Ranger build will be definitely stronger on low lvl because of the animal companion.
Yes, perma battlethirst, cat's grace etc., not sure if there will be enough room to buff up party, but you yourself should be fine. You can choose favored enemies to fit your needs in PvE or PvP (or maybe a bit of both).
The biggest problem is really the missing epic dodge or hips, which both gives great way to defend yourself.

SD build - well that depends on your roleplay and such. In a way it might be slightly better build, but it all depends on other circumstances (party, your skill etc.) and I generally think that ranger offers more in RP, than rogue SD.

Discipline for ranged... I dont know how crucial it is, I personally prefer to plan worst case scenario, which means being taken into melee, where if you can be knocked down multiple times, you are done.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

Miscalculated damage, forgot to add the +6 from weapon spec. How is this for a build?

Ranger 1-21 / Rogue 22-23 / Fighter 24-27 / Rogue 28-30

Str10/Dex20-27/Con10/Wis14/Int10/Cha4 - Yes, I know, 4 Cha means, well, very socially stunted, but he's a goblin, is that enough?

As for skills, this is my problem: I have four skills I can get to 33. Then I have 12 ranks left over. The four skills I'd like to have are MS, Hide, Tumble and UMD. (UMD to 33 to take care of -3 Cha mod) Now, I'd put the last 12 in Heal because I feel like it will help most in there, but then I notice I don't have discipline. The only skill I'd be ready to get rid of is UMD, so which one is better?

Feats (in leveling order):
Blind-Fight
Point Blank Shot
Weapon Focus (Shortbow)
Rapid Shot
Called Shot
Improved Critical (Shortbow)
Extra Feat (tempted to take Stealthy)
Bane of Enemies
Great Dexterity
Epic Weapon Focus (Shortbow) -> Fighter bonus feat
Epic Prowess -> Fighter bonus Feat
Weapon Spec (Shortbow) -> Fighter bonus feat
Epic Weapon Spec (Shortbow)
Another Epic Feat (Armor Skin? Epic Skill Focus?)

As for favored enemies, I get five. Human, Orc, (maybe goblinoid for reasons), the rest undecided. Which ones are good for what? (PvP, PvE?)

I'll have a multiclass penalty starting at level 24.

Is there anything blatantly wrong in there? Anything that you think would be better, changes in order, feats, etc.?

That one epic feat should be probably armor skin.

However... not sure about skillpoints. I am almost tempted to go with strength 8 just to get more int. If not, I would go with 12 points in discipline, rather than in heal. Heals are kinda decent even with just +10 healing kits. But this is a tough choice.

_________________
Zendaer Amattis
Torgon Crimsonshade
Khalid Athanalo
CET time zone

Hmm... If I go 8 Str then would need/want to get +12 in both Dex and Str... So I wonder how difficult that would be. Would having just 12 iin Discipline be wort it? I mean, anyone with KD will have more than 32 on an attack roll.

Whoo! Goblins.

I must agree with this... speaking purely from mechanics.


That said. I like it. It feels like a goblin, and he'll definitely be a rather terrifying turret. The bow allows you to shoot and run too, so it won't suffer from the same escape issues as a melee corner sneak. I would however, seriously, consider more discipline. Basically you're low strength and a small creature ... Imp. Knockdown will be your absolute bane, goblins are surprisingly disciplined as they're usually kept in a strict tribal structure by Hobgoblins who train them for war and do get a bonus to it racially.

Your only alternative would be to pretty much LIVE by the 'hit and run' moniker. Which, could be fun. That's all I have to say about it, it looks pretty solid otherwise.

_________________