AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I will politely call out your logic of assuming that because someone's forum account has been registered for X amount of time and currently has a title/usergroup attached to it, that it has always had that title since the account was made.

Faded only recently (in the past year or so) joined the Dev team. And once there, she had an immense pile of work to slog through. She has only even more recently (the past month or so?) been in a position of administrative development that allowed her to work on these aspects of the server.

"(...) given at least a smidgen of consideration because they are human beings." Let's be fair if we're going to start this. Whether I agree with all of the choices made or not, I am absolutely not going to let Faded be the scapegoat for things she had no control of or ability to influence simply because she's the one posting. The server would still be crashing every very minutes if not for her, with the help of others like our newest dev BasicHuman.

BasicHuman wrote:

No other job was "guttered".

gutted! thanks for pointing that out so kindly

anyway, I dunno, I haven't checked the new system myself. just trying to restate what I thought the point was, for some people.

I legitimately did not know about the bug until last night, and frankly I'm offended at the insinuations. This forum is for constructive feedback, not trashing your developers.

Just don't let this drag you down. You know how the world works : No good deed goes unpunished.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be grateful for something that I never asked for and that changes the server for the worse.

Faded Wings wrote:

I legitimately did not know about the bug until last night, and frankly I'm offended at the insinuations. This forum is for constructive feedback, not trashing your developers.

Well i couldn't simply not report the fact that i was able to reset my Nodes , that was a big exploit, i did not mean for you to redo the entire thing do :mrgreen:

I'll be honest and say that if I had known about this, I would have used it. Instead, I've eaten every DC I have ever gotten and currently sitting at level 20.

Sucks to be me, I guess.

Lord of the Board wrote:

I'll be honest and say that if I had known about this, I would have used it. Instead, I've eaten every DC I have ever gotten and currently sitting at level 20.

Sucks to be me, I guess.

Well, you can rest easy knowing you didn't take part in a massive exploit that went completely against the very idea and concept of the job system.

I'm thankful for the change, and any solution to past / current / future exploit.

I thought I saw someone say the Job System wasn't meant to be used to Level up. I'm just curious to hear how a character that is a Divine caster (Druid / Cleric) of Eldath. It's impossible to level in the traditional system other than Job System and Dream Coins. Because, if I am correct and Amarice may correct me, Eldath druids aren't allowed to cause death to any living creature. There aren't enough Undead / Construct hunting groups that would give any Eldath Druid a way to level. I thought about making a Eldath druid quite some time ago, attempted it on a Shifter, and still have considered it.

Again, this isn't trying to attack the team I'm grateful for the change, just curious!

This change does not impede someone from levelling via job system, it will simply take longer.

LibrisMortis_666 wrote:

I'm thankful for the change, and any solution to past / current / future exploit.

I thought I saw someone say the Job System wasn't meant to be used to Level up. I'm just curious to hear how a character that is a Divine caster (Druid / Cleric) of Eldath. It's impossible to level in the traditional system other than Job System and Dream Coins. Because, if I am correct and Amarice may correct me, Eldath druids aren't allowed to cause death to any living creature. There aren't enough Undead / Construct hunting groups that would give any Eldath Druid a way to level. I thought about making a Eldath druid quite some time ago, attempted it on a Shifter, and still have considered it.

Again, this isn't trying to attack the team I'm grateful for the change, just curious!

Darkhold, burning dead, glorag mur, khem undead in tombs and whispering rift, brog frozen wastes, caraigh undead and demons (mind the knights...), mourn manor, abyss, forrstakkr undead and wraiths, all of the shadowplane, all off the top of my head, valid places for a eldathian to hunt. I could see an argument made vs the gibberlings, as they are explicitly abominations and ruining the area supernaturally. Also the undead in the skull crags crypt and the gauntlet of terror.

I'm not saying there's not going to be rough spots to levelling a 100% pacifist, but it is doable.

Thanks Tormak. I may have to make the lingering idea now. I only knew a few of them. No doubt a heavy struggle for a Pacifist.

I've used the Job system a lot to level one of my current PCs. Herbalism, even. But I didn't do it because it was faster or for more lucrative XP-gain (She's still not level 30, anyway, after...years). I did it because I can't solo and hate respawning.

That said, I had no idea about the resetting thing with the dynamic areas. That is a big no-no. And while I did like getting a bunch of xp in a one-time run, I'm perfectly fine with it being fixed. I'll still sit there and click it every minute and be happy with the alternative to dying and mindless killing grind. It's still mindless and boring, but at least I can read and do other things at the same time when I just feel crappy and don't want to do anything.

Plus, extra herbs on a bonus roll for my mundane healer RP! Woo!

TormakSaber wrote:

I'm not saying there's not going to be rough spots to levelling a 100% pacifist, but it is doable.

I can vouch for this. I have an ahimsa wizard who I have leveled exclusively via the Astronomer Job and the few non-killing quests. It's entirely doable, you simply can't be in a hurry.

No comment on the reasons for the changes. But not sure if this was considered, with my farming job, now when I spawn more then one crop, I can only pick one every 2 mins. Instead of before when I could pick all of them every 2 mins. Will these have to be kept like this?

Luckbringer wrote:

No comment on the reasons for the changes. But not sure if this was considered, with my farming job, now when I spawn more then one crop, I can only pick one every 2 mins. Instead of before when I could pick all of them every 2 mins. Will these have to be kept like this?

That'll likely be fixed soon.

Thanks Faded, long live the mushroom farmer.

You know, I dont know how I feel about this. I did the math after running mobs for almost 10 hours straight yesterday too put this too the test as well as help several people gain levels. In that 10 hours of almost non stop grinding, we made an average of about 15k xp an hour. That is killing things that ranged from 60-73 xp a kill. Never droped below 60. Hell rarely dropped below 68. So there is the Xp grind.

This also reminds me of the place with all the doors that once upon a time was 140? xp a door, then was dropped to 120, and just went down and down. And you didnt have too be in the lvl 5 range and such, so you could get like 20 people in a party and just run doors with everyone in the party and everyone would get 120 xp per door per person. Walk away with stupid xp that took about 20 mins or so with the amount of people.

I really dont see much issue slowing down the xp on gatherings, just like buying all the ore and just flushing out a couple thousand xp just by smelting ore. I got a couple levels myself by doing that. Then selling the bars back and normally making profit. Not much, but I can make about 8-10k xp in matter of a couple minutes.

But the one thing I will say, is lvling on Amia is really easy. From lvling mages, pure monks, dex builds, str builds, I have tested multiple of builds, and rarely find one that cant grind or find a place to get a reasonable amount of XP. This includes builds with XP pens from the start as well. But that's a personal experience and may not and will not apply too everyone.

For those that are passive. Like the salndrains, they themselves cant fight but I have helped several lvl over the course of time. And personally lvling should be just a bit tad slower. You get more RP interacting if its a bit slower. Too fast and well, meh. I am guilty myself, and I have no right nor am I saying no one should lvl quickly, but I know the toons I had lvled slower, I have had more fun playing, cause it gives me a chance to adapt and create a life/backstory for my toon.

I hope that a balance between the job system, (which has potential in my opinion) and the old grinding can be found. There has been alot of changes, and they sometimes start off rough. We are all here to have fun and enjoy a game which yes we have all paid for, and play at the hard dedication and time that people, (who dont get paid and has paid for the game) put into so we, i mean everyone, can enjoy.

So if you still continue too have a problem with the change, instead of hounding and saying this is stupid, come up with a solution that might be better for the team that is working on it, and seeing how tied down they are, make it simple.

For this case, is it possible to limit how much you can pick at each rank per reset. So a novice could pick 20 plants, where a master could pick 40. Numbers maybe high, but the idea is there. It would limit and fix the xp you can gain while still able to pick enough too make potions or kits, or trade/sell.

not the topic of discussion whatsoever, but i'm sorta blown away by your numbers, and what you're saying. feel free to ignore me, too. But I really am curious, as I don't seem to have the knowledge you do about leveling. Where can you level a monk solo for 68+ xp per kill, getting 15k xp/hour? same Q for a dex build. I have some trouble leveling up roguey types solo. but again, I don't know all the tricks.

For me I really hate the change because if your trying to collect the stuff to use, and jogging from tree to tree.....ect trying to speed it up the 2min cool down kills it as if the job system was not already dull as hell for a system that does nothing to effect balance of what it produces.

You all remember the cordor boxes where you have to collect like a billion logs, granite and who knows what else to rebuild some store....ect well we have very limited players and even less players who want too sit in front of some tree or rock out in the middle of no where clicking it once every 2mins and the few of us who did because we kind of had to now cant even speed that up by going from node to node.
And given most people could not pay the gold price people wanted for job system supplies because simple math, I can clear X zone killing Y monsters gaining Z amount of gold with added drops, your 20 logs will cost you..... 50,000 gold. now if we cant even use multiple nodes it will be more akin to 300,000+

I take it there is no way in the rest menu you could set it up so if you disable exp you could have it so its 2min per node and not just over all.

corypx wrote:

I take it there is no way in the rest menu you could set it up so if you disable exp you could have it so its 2min per node and not just over all.

Yes, set it up like the scribe job. I +1 this idea.

Nodes being given a universal cooldown for collection vs indiviudal was a mistake and is being fixed. XP is remaining a universal 2 minutes.

Ok, finally found this. Still confused as to the change, then reading there's a mistake, so what is the final result supposed to be/look like exactly? Please explain like I'm five, like, what you mean by nodes and universal and cooldown

Nodes are the usable PLCs you can click on to make the roll for EXP and the Job System item associated with it. (ex. A glowberry bush, which will yield EXP and glowberries on a successful roll.)

Cooldown is the timer that prevents you from clicking on the node to gather from it again until the cooldown is over. This used to be 2 minutes, and each node had its own individual counter. (So you could click glowberry bush #1 which begins the cooldown, then run over to glowberry bush #2 and click there an start that one's cooldown. Bush #1 will be ready again before Bush #2.)

The universal cooldown means that no matter which node you click, while the cooldown is in effect, you will not gain EXP for clicking on it. The cooldown timer has been reduced to one minute.

At the moment, the universal cooldown is also, erroneously, preventing people from collecting the Job System item as well as preventing them from gaining EXP. It's supposed to be putting the time limit on only EXP gain. (At the moment, if you click on any node, it begins the cooldown timer for every other node for you, instead of just the one you clicked. This is being fixed.)

So, for simpletons (me), it means that you gather the resources without time limit, but you'll not receive any additional xp unless the cooldown is done?

this simpleton is also confused
Will there be an XP CD in crafting thingl, like the cooking job?

I think it's:

Gathering : CD counts
Crafting : no CD

... right?

Guardian wrote:

So, for simpletons (me), it means that you gather the resources without time limit, but you'll not receive any additional xp unless the cooldown is done?

Correct. This is the intended action.

... wow. So if I'm lvl 30 and don't care about getting XP any more, I could just walk up to a herb plant and click-click-click-click-click-click-click to collect my whole allotment of its herbs in a few seconds? That's... kind of awesome.

Kind of a weird thing, imo, considering the other resources don't have 10 in a single zone. If you can only find like 1 or 2 ore max per zone, why should you be allowed to pick up 10 herbs?

Good point, we should add more non-herb resource nodes to the server.

Larsaan wrote:

Good point, we should add more non-herb resource nodes to the server.

It is funny that in some areas of forest you will find one tree which you can get wood from!

walnutboy wrote:

It is funny that in some areas of forest you will find one tree which you can get wood from!

There's plenty of good wood in the forest, you have to know where to look.

Liz wrote:

... wow. So if I'm lvl 30 and don't care about getting XP any more, I could just walk up to a herb plant and click-click-click-click-click-click-click to collect my whole allotment of its herbs in a few seconds? That's... kind of awesome.

I think this is not working, or has the fix not yet been implemented?
My lvl 30 has no ranks in herbalist, but on attempting to gather, there is a 60 second cooldown, before he can try again.

Kudark wrote:

I think this is not working, or has the fix not yet been implemented?
My lvl 30 has no ranks in herbalist, but on attempting to gather, there is a 60 second cooldown, before he can try again.

TormakSaber wrote:

Nodes being given a universal cooldown for collection vs indiviudal was a mistake and is being fixed. XP is remaining a universal 2 minutes.

@ Liz
As I understand it, the nodes will still have a cooldown on them, meaning you can gather a resource only once a minute - but it will be like how it used to be, with each node having its own counter instead of all of them being on the same one. Correct me if I'm wrong, Faded! And even if they don't, they have a finite amount so all that would mean is you can get your menial tasks done and get right back to RP.

As of this post, The only job system change at all since before this thread is: XP Gain from gathering jobs has a universal 2 minute cooldown.

OH ok. That's totally cool. I was gonna disagree with ingredient cooldown, but xp cooldown is totes ok by me

I use the job system more for roleplay, anything else is an added bonus

LetumLux wrote:

@ Liz
As I understand it, the nodes will still have a cooldown on them, meaning you can gather a resource only once a minute - but it will be like how it used to be, with each node having its own counter instead of all of them being on the same one. Correct me if I'm wrong, Faded! And even if they don't, they have a finite amount so all that would mean is you can get your menial tasks done and get right back to RP.

Correct.

Love this solution, can now safely use Orchander+Market gardener for my Ale brewing again, without it taking 3-4 times longer

I should add that the CD is for all gathering jobs! So if you have Orchander and market gardener the xp CD is shared , not that i mind, just trowing it out there.

TormakSaber wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

@ Liz
As I understand it, the nodes will still have a cooldown on them, meaning you can gather a resource only once a minute - but it will be like how it used to be, with each node having its own counter instead of all of them being on the same one. Correct me if I'm wrong, Faded! And even if they don't, they have a finite amount so all that would mean is you can get your menial tasks done and get right back to RP.

Correct.

If this is the case and it is possible to reset the nodes by leaving and reentering the area if it is dynamic. Would it not make these resources essentially infinite and quicker to gather? Thus throwing out of balance the resource economy.

And isn't there still a gold exploit here somewhere, if you keeping picking those herbs using the dynamic area reset and go sell your resources at the merchant.

Or am I reading this all wrong?

Last edited by Darkblade on Fri, Jan 08 2016, 17:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.

tested this on Alric with Orchander, and i can still run in/out of KOhilgen west coast and keep on picking cherries (the CD reset when i re-enter the area) Sure i'l only get xp from picking ones/2min, but i'm still able to harvest so many cherries in sutch a short time its still a bunch loud of XP making juice

For Market Gardener there are plenty of area's green fields and stuff i can't plant Barley (Barley+hops for my beer)

For herbalist you can still go to Warftown, pick the right herbs, run out, back in again pick the right herbs(Again there is no CD for picking herbs if you do it like this), make a bunch of restore potions for a bunch of xp and then sell em....

These two area's really need to be fixed , one way could be to make the nodes furter from the transition point, but then you can just portal in/out , not sure how you can fix these, other then simply removing them

I'm pretty sure there are other jobs that have loop holes in it, these are the only two that i know of, hope it helps!

Those areas should have about a 5th of the nodes available. The system was never designed to withstand 1: dynamic areas (an unfortunate dsideffect) and 2: zealous designers making massive clusters of nodes.

Aye , if you want to stop the XP harvest, these two area's need to be redone
In terms of Orchander do, Shrine near kampo still got four trees but other then that and not including that kohilgen area looks to be done as intended

What i don't understand that out of the 8 Orchander spots i know of, only the one in kohilgen resets?

I still think the amount is fine, personally, but I'm a weirdo who likes to replace hunting with the Job System entirely, so I've an obvious bias! It's easy enough to remove multiple instances of the same type of node from these richer areas, although I wouldn't touch the diversity - only the quantity of each.

LetumLux wrote:

I still think the amount is fine, personally, but I'm a weirdo who likes to replace hunting with the Job System entirely, so I've an obvious bias! It's easy enough to remove multiple instances of the same type of node from these richer areas, although I wouldn't touch the diversity - only the quantity of each.

Luckbringer wrote:

If this is the case and it is possible to reset the nodes by leaving and reentering the area if it is dynamic. Would it not make these resources essentially infinite and quicker to gather? Thus throwing out of balance the resource economy.

And isn't there still a gold exploit here somewhere, if you keeping picking those herbs using the dynamic area reset and go sell your resources at the merchant.

Or am I reading this all wrong?

Well the amount is fine, its just that in the two area's above i mentioned you can simply run in/out and it resets the nodes CD and back to 10 uses , and since there is no CD for crafting XP, well

For example you can get 6-8 cherries in kohilgen instead of 2/2min , you then turn em into juice for around 600 ish xp/2 min, instead of the normal 140ish xp /2 min

So if you felt like exploiting this you can still get about 18000 xp/hour if you want to do the tedious running in and out of the zone
PS i suck at math so my numbers could be wrong
And if you wanted to be even more tedious and use a hemp robe you can get even more

Should be fixed!

The problem is that I used the system to fill leveling gaps where it was incredibly hard to find hunting parties or even areas to go to.

Shadowfiend wrote:

The problem is that I used the system to fill leveling gaps where it was incredibly hard to find hunting parties or even areas to go to.

I just got to 30, bran new to the server and NWN in general, but never felt like there were any 'gaps' aside from annoying enemies I didn't like having to quaff mind-blanks to kill. Even then I felt like I always had a choice and there is a ton of the server (partic on B) that I just never saw.

What levels are these gaps you're talking about?

AirPhforce wrote:

Shadowfiend wrote:

The problem is that I used the system to fill leveling gaps where it was incredibly hard to find hunting parties or even areas to go to.

I just got to 30, bran new to the server and NWN in general, but never felt like there were any 'gaps' aside from annoying enemies I didn't like having to quaff mind-blanks to kill. Even then I felt like I always had a choice and there is a ton of the server (partic on B) that I just never saw.

What levels are these gaps you're talking about?

In general, there TENDS to be a lot more lower levels looking for groups. Then consider time zones and busy lives. Sometimes it's hard to find a good group, at higher levels. Maybe you had good luck, or more time to look for those groups. As well, that level 30 companion can smoke a lot of monsters, if you did some solo grind.

Yeah I'd say mainly depends on class, some are easy to solo with, some are virtually impossible (or very boring to attempt).

Job system changes??

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