AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Why is it so hard for people to allow their characters to accept legitimate punishment?

Is in regards to a specific event or something that happened recently? If it is I suggest we stop right here.

Nope! Just a general discussion.

The way I see it this issues exists on two sides of the same coin but are often represented in different focal views of the concept depending on alignment.

Cause and effect is a thing right? Why not let the effect happen?

Personally, I think it may have to do with the tense that's so popular with the server as a whole. It's too personal. Too close. If you take Matthew' back story for example it's written from the first person perspective rather then the third. I honestly hate that format of writing but it's every where. It's in game it's on the forums it's literally every where. I believe such a format of writing tents t allow the player to get too familiar with their own characters and get too attached because of how the words I and me are so strongly associated with our selves making out character seem that much closer to our selves... that much more... personal.

I've hated the first person perspective so much I haven't really wanted to continue said back story in such a person but I look around and feel that 1) it's not the norm to continue from a narrative perspective, and 2) it would be weird and seen as not proper for grammar purposes to switch so suddenly in the middle of the story.

I feel that tense had a HUGE role on how we see our character and how we perceive them. I feel that perhaps instilling more of a narrative take on things people will be able to let go more as it severs what, I believe has become a very personal tie between player and character.

He thinks she might have a point, but many do not write any backstories at all on the forums, so that can't be the source of all evulz.

But he, too, got attached to his character and found it difficult to roll with the proverbial punches. He doesn't think attachment is a bad thing in general, though, as it enriches his personal experience quite often. So maybe it's just more difficult for him (and others) to let go because the happenings might not align with the story in his mind? That can even happen if unplanned good things occur.

Regards
He himself

My personal experience:

1) Players are used from MMOs and other games in general, that only acting against server rules (not IC rules) will get them punished. So they dont feel like they are doing anything wrong. Mostly true for newbies and hard core creepers (do native speakers say "creepers"?).

2) Players dont respect authority given to other players. So if there is PC guard and PC criminal, criminal often ends up having hard time to swallow when they are caught and basically punished by PC authority. That is hard to deal with. Also players generally dont like to make deals, they rather lose all then to go for some sort of bad deal, but better then being completely caught.

3) And as PS said - it's about being invested into character. But my experience is that everyone needs to take time to get over his rage and after that most of the good players will work through their punishment.

Nalkanar wrote:

My personal experience:

1) Players are used from MMOs and other games in general, that only acting against server rules (not IC rules) will get them punished. So they dont feel like they are doing anything wrong. Mostly true for newbies and hard core creepers (do native speakers say "creepers"?).

2) Players dont respect authority given to other players. So if there is PC guard and PC criminal, criminal often ends up having hard time to swallow when they are caught and basically punished by PC authority. That is hard to deal with. Also players generally dont like to make deals, they rather lose all then to go for some sort of bad deal, but better then being completely caught.

3) And as PS said - it's about being invested into character. But my experience is that everyone needs to take time to get over his rage and after that most of the good players will work through their punishment.

I think Nalkanar's kinda hit the nail on the head... MMOs by in large encourage a different style of play then what we are looking for on Amia. As well, yes.. sadly the 2nd point's also true (i've had to deal with this a fair bit when I played in the Cordor Guard).

Answers sadly don't come easily to all these points but, some will be needed.

PS, have one of your characters ask Crow about accepting punishment. He nearly gave his head for House Avadon, and I was willing to accept that if it happened, Crow would have been perma-dead. He's also dealing with other forms of punishment right now. Not only from factions, but his personal life.

I actually see many characters dealing with punishment. But I do see a lot of PC's not respecting certain things mentioned, and from experience, it becomes frustrating at times.

I think, like so many open-ended questions on the forums, it depends on the circumstances entirely. If I was in the right situation and it was handled the right way (with respect to my contribution to a greater story and what I was looking for out of my character's journey- which is not fame or recognition, btw!), I would happily let go of my characters. Even Samantha! I would miss her, in a fond sort of way. It's like the matter of death (in real life I should specify)- some characters represent a lot of who we are, and so when that is threatened in a POWER dynamic, it is unsettling. When it is handled with care and concern, it is a happy and joyous parting.

I may sound dramatic but I mean every word! It is intentionally so.

DM Edit: Hmmm....

*Cof* DM please >.>

Yes, please can a DM or forum admin deal with that..

why would you wanna censor art? leave this beautiful thing where it is pls

I trust you lot can be more mature than that. If you want to show us otherwise, consequences will be dished. Please don't turn this into another flame war. Thanks everyone

I think these types of people are common in real life as well, and like our characters people come in all shapes and sizes. I don't think it's fair to generalize it with a comment on writing styles or overall mindset

Sometimes one players opinion of a fitting punishment differs to the one who's serving out said punishment.

For example; If my character simply was in a fight in the middle of Cordor, and a zealous PC guard called for their execution as a punishment I too would raise question about that.

In a lot of cases I suspect: Because in their head, they were right. They oocly don't accept/agree that their character did anything wrong, so any kind of punishment must be unjustified.

PassionateShadow wrote:

Why is it so hard for people to allow their characters to accept legitimate punishment?

Because they want to <winz the peeveepee> rather than enjoy the RP, some of the best of which comes about by RPing a loss.

For exmaple, Once upon a time a certain barbarian once upon a time responded to every RP response in a scene by going red and rolling a to hit regardless of the RP, meh, guess it was more important to flaunt proficiency with excel than their RP imagination

Eh.. because people want to decide "when" and "how" they are to be punished, "if" they are to be punished at all.

People need to detach themselves from these ideas, and stop questioning the motivations of people who do these things, because it completely neuters the meaning. Just roll with the punches.. because it's just a character. So what if someone killed you, and tortured you, and it wasn't justified. Build from it, write a story. Have it change your character... not your OOC attitude. Just because you fall down doesn't mean you can't get back up and have experienced more from your journey.

Quote:

For exmaple, Once upon a time a certain barbarian once upon a time responded to every RP response in a scene by going red and rolling a to hit regardless of the RP, meh, guess it was more important to flaunt proficiency with excel than their RP imagination

How do you know that's the only reason they wanted to PvP / Kill you? Very easy to see things that way when you're the recipient and don't care about the reason, or even the consequences if there is no easy reason to see. Which is exactly what I think the problem that spawned this thread is caused by. Is your RP imagination really that great, if you can't imagine a murderer killing you, "just cause"?

I think not. Instead of being ICly afraid of said individual, people immediately jump to complaining OOCly, often times. Try to change perspective!

I personally enjoy the punishment and challenge of not being fully in control of what happens to me PC. It gets extremely boring when everything is what I say, when I say, how I say. I'll go DM side if I want that

Joking aside, I feel people are addicted to that control, especially in the beginning of the characters life. As stuff goes on, some grow to welcoming outside influence, some never do.

I personally love the feeling of the unexpected, the sensation of it that separated what I expect and plan from what my character is actually facing.

A lot of time too, I notice people expect the other person or party had to have been cheating to out do you and your PC. Which sadly yes, happens. But those times are rather obvious and the others often are invitations for your character to grow and overcome things.

If it's stressful for you to the point it effects real life, and deters you from playing, you need to a really step back from the game and get less attached.

This is still a game, and one where some folks certainly can dominate the field of various things. The competition is certainly present on Amia that I can see. I feel like it has mostly turned to that competition rather than the fun of the server. A lot is about making the best, having the most, making a group that does more brings more than the other guys, which can deter the mentality of let's just have fun.

Granted the competition can certainly drive to greater things as well. But for that, we will always need a loser, or someone who will be lesser. But that leads right to the issue of mentioned in this topic, people need to be able to accept loss and rise from it stronger.

Tarnus wrote:

In a lot of cases I suspect: Because in their head, they were right. They oocly don't accept/agree that their character did anything wrong, so any kind of punishment must be unjustified.

This! I like to call players as these "Guardian Angels", because they act like an angel of a sort watching over their own character. The IC actions are "agreed with" OOC and they will argue for their characters to be right.

They are fairly easy to spot but difficult to deal with.

Sometimes, also, decisions are made arbitrary without before even having such implications and therefore they come out of the blue. They are just imposed on players. Secondly, sometimes OOC actions are taken to enforce something in IC.

I see little reason to accept those situations for a character.

Magiros wrote:

Sometimes, also, decisions are made arbitrary without before even having such implications and therefore they come out of the blue. They are just imposed on players. Secondly, sometimes OOC actions are taken to enforce something in IC.

I see little reason to accept those situations for a character.

+1

Exactly.

I agree with Estaras point of view.

I'll offer an explanation instead of a solution.

I am very attached to a character that I created in December 2013. However, do to the race and class I have to be ok with severe punishment. And be ok for unfair punishment. I gave permission to the DM of an event to permakill because of the gravity of the situation. Luckily I... er... my character guessed correctly and managed to do something to avoid oblivion. Still, it's amazingly difficult to be ok with the treatment this character receives and I confess to having to take breaks due to my inability to be circumspect regarding a character I am fond of.

I think expectation gimps us as players regarding the punishment our characters end up with. Its easy to misunderstand a situation since we have what are basically instant messages with emotes that can be misconstrued. We give hints that are missed or misunderstood and it can be frustrating.

I think there are several things that conspire to create a situation where a PC refuses to be ok with a consequence of a situation. Everything from the player feeling the punishment is out of line with the crime to the player having had a bad day already.

And honestly, I think we - Amia players as a whole - create characters we care about. Moreover, we tend to be really good at making these characters real. So, yeah, we have occasion to want to protect those we care about - even if they are just our imagination.

Crime and Punishmeant

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