AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - To the new unsuspecting players of the world.

Hi there,

Last night, while I was roleplaying, I got tons of goodies from a dm quest. Sadly for me, all the itemsthat were my class were way beyon my level. So I tought I would remove some features out of those items to make them my level and enjoy my rewards. I so passed to my other character that is a crafter, the items so I could remove those nasty stats ( like light 5 meters and crap like that that were agaisnt my character concept).

To my undoing, any and I say ANY interaction in between characters of the same account ( in this case myself and myself) is agaisn the rules on amia even if the rule themselves stipulate that its mainly to not give items to players they should not have otherwise, nothing to my knowledge about downgrading items (wich is really not cheating if you think about it, its more like the contrary). Anywais, that said all my characters got stripped of all their gear and gold, on a first tiny offense. So this thread is not to get told anything by those that knew about this, it is only to tell new players that you should not ever exchange or even speak of your other characters, as any and I say any interaction in between them is agaisnt the rules and will lose you 100 hours of gameplay( in my case) for a tiny offense. Trust me it feels like someone's killing a fly with a bazooka. There is no rational corelation in between the breaking of the rule and the huge huge huge penalty.[color=#BF0000] So do not do that, new players, even if you ignored it and toward that rational reason it the event was an accident and you didnt interpret the rules that way, they will kill your amia experiences and reduce them all to zero.[/color]

So that being said, enjoy your game time, im moving on to something else. (Probably going to finish listening to the Naruto series once and for all.

FYI to anyone, that's part of the rules. It's called muling. Items from one character cannot pass knowingly to one of your other chars.

Also, it's a bit late now, but you don't need any crafting ability to remove, only to put things onto items.

Sorry to hear, regardless

Titanarrow wrote:

it is only to tell new players that you should not ever exchange or even speak of your other characters, as any and I say any interaction in between them is agaisnt the rules and will lose you 100 hours of gameplay( in my case) for a tiny offense.

This is also wholly incorrect. For one, the DMs can tell when an item goes from one character to another, including characters on the same account. Also, you are fearmongering; interaction between characters is dissuaded because of the muling rule (which is a rule contained in Amia's posted rules), you will only get in trouble if you are muling gold or items or metagaming information.

To be honest this topic is addressed under the server rules about muling or twinking. If you had an issue, it would be best to pm a DM directly and not post this on the forums as the rules are quite clear about transferring gold/gear between pcs on the same account.

You don't need to be a crafter to remove properties on items, just take a mythal and go to a forge and remove as many properties as your heart desires.

That you shouldn't hand items between your own characters is in my opinion common sense. My experience with previous cases I have seen are that the people involved are usually not so innocent as they sound.

Even if the DM removed your items, that doesn't mean you have to give up. It just means you learned and can move on. There's nothing you can't replace that you had, other than DM quest items. But every reward a DM gives over a event is unique to all others. So just get back on the server and regained what was lost.

The rules state clearly and boldly what is and isn't okay to do. There are a decent number of rules, but they're actually very hard to break once you're aware of them.

Tough luck dude, I see this as an honest mistake based on how you portray it, if anything a "don't do that" would've been in order with a heavy helping of "go read the rules"...

A total stripping is pretty ludicrous for something that very clearly was a mistake, and he's even repentant enough to make a topic airing his mistake in an effort to ensure others don't tread the same hazardous path. Harsh rulings are not my cup of tea though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Who starts a new server without reading the basic rules at least?

Honestly? Lots of people don't. 90% of rules are common sense: Don't cheat, be decent to your fellow players. There's a lot of minutiae in there but people have gotten used to the idea that they'll just get by if they don't mean ill. And this person didn't, but they were caught by the letter of the law. Well, the law is a harsh mistress and doesn't give much leeway for honest mistakes, but I'm with OtR here - chasing a decent player off Amia for being a little careless isn't good for anyone.

Maybe I'm OCD! Anyone with even half an idea of how persistent worlds on NWN work knows every server has it's own rules. Be responsible and read. That's what makes a decent player IMO.

The rules are rather clear on this and it is important to read them. Even in RL...just because you never read the laws, ignorance won't give you an excuse if you break them.

Tough luck but they only took your stuff away and you are not banned, so you didn't lose THAT much. I find your post a bit too dramatic.

In re: to...

TheGoddessOfAmazing© wrote:

Who starts a new server without reading the basic rules at least?

... as well as everyone else saying "just read the rules, duh."

I don't think it's a matter of reading the rules, so much as one of understanding them.

When I was a very new, very stupid rookie on Amia, I knew the rule said "no muling" but I didn't really have any firm understanding of what that meant. I assumed, like the OP did, that the rule was intended to prevent one of your characters from using another of your characters' items. Like, actually keeping it and using it in fights. And so I did something stupid, not the exact same mistake the OP here did but something similar, because I was confident that I wasn't violating the spirit of the rules.

I got stripped anyway. Peeves was pleasant enough about it, but it still happened. I'm not bitter about it in the slightest, but I agree the rules could stand a bit more clarity, making it explicit that there is no difference between the letter and the spirit of the rules: absolutely no transfer between your own characters is acceptable, ever, under any circumstances, even if neither character is gaining any meaningful advantage by the transfer.

>_>

The rule isn't ambiguous, the statue in the entry says: "Do not mule. You are not allowed to transfer items between any of your PCs (such as muling a powerful weapon and lots of magic potions to a new character from your epic.) If you have any questions regarding these rules, please ask a DM before carrying out the action."

The journal entry is basically the same thing. There's really no room for miscommunication there; it says 'don't transfer items'.

The rule is clear enough when things like this don't happen.

Liz wrote:

The rule is clear enough when things like this don't happen.

But they are clear.....
"Both twinking and muling is prohibited on Amia. Players caugh either muling or twinking will face punishments: Complete strip of all the offending characters on the first offence"
"Muling constitutes as follows: passing items and/or gold from a character to another, when both characters are in the possession of the same player." ....ect

Yeah... that statement is akin to a logical fallacy, if not actually being one. You cannot say that someone clearly breaking the rule means that the rule is not clear. It says to not transfer items. Items were transferred. That's pretty clear.

Naivatkal wrote:

This is also wholly incorrect. For one, the DMs can tell when an item goes from one character to another, including characters on the same account. Also, you are fearmongering; interaction between characters is dissuaded because of the muling rule (which is a rule contained in Amia's posted rules), you will only get in trouble if you are muling gold or items or metagaming information.

Just to correct you on your correction.

No, your PCs can never interact. It is not just Dissuaded. Your PCs can hear or know of each other. But they do not interact in any way shape or form. Once upon a time it was as you said. But for today, it is more strict in not allowing any of them to prevent metagaming, to prevent conflict of interests, to prevent having all your alts who know eachother to vote for the same thing, or your alts cause, etc.

Far too many people abused this in more way than I listed and now, it is no longer allowed at all.

Yeah my bad. I knew dissuaded was wrong... and derped and left it in hah.

serbiris wrote:

Honestly? Lots of people don't. 90% of rules are common sense: Don't cheat, be decent to your fellow players. There's a lot of minutiae in there but people have gotten used to the idea that they'll just get by if they don't mean ill. And this person didn't, but they were caught by the letter of the law. Well, the law is a harsh mistress and doesn't give much leeway for honest mistakes, but I'm with OtR here - chasing a decent player off Amia for being a little careless isn't good for anyone.

Nobody is chasing anyone off. Someone choosing to leave of their own volition does not somehow put anyone else at fault, even if it was caused by misfortune and an uncomfortable situation.

A full strip on the first offence is drastic. The current ham-handed implementation players recount has the finesse of an axe murderer. I believe this is a rule that should be looked at carefully for better means to implement it in the future.

Given that the items are tracked through variables on the items themselves, is it really that hard to have the system simply delete the muled item on acquiring it and shoot the player a "DO NOT MULE" message? That seems like it would solve this in an entirely automated and surgical manner directed at the problem.

Eurgiga wrote:

Given that the items are tracked through variables on the items themselves, is it really that hard to have the system simply delete the muled item on acquiring it and shoot the player a "DO NOT MULE" message? That seems like it would solve this in an entirely automated and surgical manner directed at the problem.

I saw this topic pop up and was like... "Still?" but I have to say, I love this idea!

I can understand stripping both PCs in certain circumstances, or for repeat offenders. I am sure there is a reason that a full strip on the first offence was implemented at one time. I think we've evolved to a point this could be reevaluated though.

Given that this has already been done and the OP was just putting it up as a warning.. is a discussion really necessary or even wanted?

I'm all for backing players up and being transparent, but there's a point to which it gets defeatist. The player is upset and has left. Let them cool off and maybe the DMs can discuss if they think such drastic measures are worth every first offense. We all make some good points, but it's not going to matter if the player is already gone and out the door.

I vote for a lock and a separate thread discussing punishments if people really think it's a discussion worth having. Also, I really like Eurgiga's idea. Makes DMs' lives easier, too...

That actually is a really good idea, Eurgiga.

First offense: item deleted with message
Second offense: One or both chars stripped
Third offense: Chars stripped and temp ban

Or something.

Naivatkal wrote:

That actually is a really good idea, Eurgiga.

First offense: item deleted with message
Second offense: One or both chars stripped
Third offense: Chars stripped and temp ban

Or something.

This!.. I think it is pretty drastic to take away everything with the first offence, especially with a new player.

Just my two cents...

TheGoddessOfAmazing© wrote:

Maybe I'm OCD! Anyone with even half an idea of how persistent worlds on NWN work knows every server has it's own rules. Be responsible and read. That's what makes a decent player IMO.

You know, it took me four months of playing Amia before I knew they had a set of rules.

Amia's rules are just so easy to follow, though. I see them as "Don't be a butt", and that's all.

"a wise man learns from your mistakes and lets the blunders of his brothers serve to fill his plate"

the fact that the player left or didnt is utterly irrelevant to the value of this discussion. he felt it important enough to make a topic and others felt it important enough to address their interpretation of the heart of a draconian rule. this rule is obviously more weighted towards epic loot transfers but all stories i hear are innocent or frivolous low level instances.

in addition the flow of items is at times unpredictable at times. the item you sell to rashad might end up in your hands on another character and then by current rulings 3 characters would need stripped, and one would be outright destroyed.

OpenTheRift wrote:

draconian rule

It's not a draconian rule, it's sensible. Unless you mean the punishment.

OpenTheRift wrote:

this rule is obviously more weighted towards epic loot transfers but all stories i hear are innocent or frivolous low level instances.

No, it's not. You shouldn't move anything from one char to another. And you assume they are innocent instances. People embellish, especially when they want to get out of trouble.

OpenTheRift wrote:

in addition the flow of items is at times unpredictable at times. the item you sell to rashad might end up in your hands on another character and then by current rulings 3 characters would need stripped, and one would be outright destroyed.

The DMs take this into account and if it's an instance like this it's generally overlooked as 'reasonable accident'.

OpenTheRift wrote:

in addition the flow of items is at times unpredictable at times. the item you sell to rashad might end up in your hands on another character and then by current rulings 3 characters would need stripped, and one would be outright destroyed.

There is a massive difference and such a situation is taken into account. Logging on PC1 to drop off items and then log on PC2 to pick them up is why the rule exists.

you are right, i meant punishment

Liz wrote:

In re: to...

Who starts a new server without reading the basic rules at least?

... as well as everyone else saying "just read the rules, duh."

I don't think it's a matter of reading the rules, so much as one of understanding them.

When I was a very new, very stupid rookie on Amia, I knew the rule said "no muling" but I didn't really have any firm understanding of what that meant. I assumed, like the OP did, that the rule was intended to prevent one of your characters from using another of your characters' items. Like, actually keeping it and using it in fights. And so I did something stupid, not the exact same mistake the OP here did but something similar, because I was confident that I wasn't violating the spirit of the rules.

I got stripped anyway. Peeves was pleasant enough about it, but it still happened. I'm not bitter about it in the slightest, but I agree the rules could stand a bit more clarity, making it explicit that there is no difference between the letter and the spirit of the rules: absolutely no transfer between your own characters is acceptable, ever, under any circumstances, even if neither character is gaining any meaningful advantage by the transfer.

Thanks for understanding exactly the spirit and nature of this post.

If that was the spirit you should have kept the scathing comments out of it. You made it sound like you were targeted and you were not. You also made it sound like you couldn't have possibly known... yet anyone reading the rules would know. That just makes new players shy away from the server if they are inclined to believe you.

Sorry, this thread has run its course.

Alas you just logged when I was finished with plot stuff and wanted to fix it.

Contact a DM next time you are around then we can restore the old PC and just take the items. The de-leveling was an accident.

To the new unsuspecting players of the world.

Who is online