AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hello my lovely Amians. Due to current brain storming stages, I would like to know your opinions on a thing or two. There's really no denying that since the conclusion of the Amnish War/Collin Reyes server story arch plot, Amia has been a little bit stagnant. I have seen over these past few months of my tenure that there has been a lot of struggle, mutually across all factions and peoples, to come together for a cause.

This is not to say that players haven't been doing a great job at creating their own tensions, because they really have. I enjoy watching how you guys interact with one another and weave conflict between each other. But our jobs as your dungeon masters and puppeteers is to throw crap at you from the sidelines, too. A persistent world without persistent danger gets boring really quickly.

So, without further ado, I have but one question for you all to kick off initiative! My first idea was regarding time slots. Most of us play this game because we love DnD. So my idea was to hold an event on a certain day every month or every so-and-so weeks, just like a table top game. Getting together as a server to perpetuate this plot and get some creative blood flowing again (And yes, this poll is regarding a server story arch as a whole). Please submit your choices in the poll and I'll be checking results in the following week.

Feel free to add any other comments/suggestions/concerns below or PM me if you don't want your queries to be seen in this thread.

***IF YOU CHOOSE OTHER OR NO, PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF (And if no, please make a suggestion)!***

~bumble~

I'm a no. Because PnP style events are always exclusive if they want to stay true to the formula (though considering that NWN as a medium works very different than tabletop this is in itself an exercise in futility). Moreover, setting a single time to do these events bars people in other timezones from getting involved.

Other:

I like this in theory but this will get exclusive. Speaking as someone with limited reliability on when I can get online (typically EST evenings) this will mean people like me would (or even people across the world) miss out on the events as they are typically a bit earlier in the day. That's not fair.

Now, if the idea were to have these happen multiple days at multiple times that would be different. But I'd still be iffy so far.

Naivatkal wrote:

Other:

I like this in theory but this will get exclusive. Speaking as someone with limited reliability on when I can get online (typically EST evenings) this will mean people like me would (or even people across the world) miss out on the events as they are typically a bit earlier in the day. That's not fair.

Now, if the idea were to have these happen multiple days at multiple times that would be different. But I'd still be iffy so far.

I voted for once in two weeks, but otherwise I have the same concerns. I just expect, that those stories would not get character too much influence and by doing it in two weeks time there would be enough IG time in between to play on different plot ideas.

I'm a little confused by the premise, also. Generally server plot stuff is done sprinkled throughout the week here and there. Is this just saying 'hey on this day and this time there is guaranteed to be an event but we'll still run plot stuff for that plot at other times'? That sounds more reasonable.

Though either way the DMs will need to make sure no few people dominate the plots that do go on. It used to happen, but I'd like to think the DMs are cognizant of the fact that it should be curbed.

Naivatkal wrote:

Is this just saying 'hey on this day and this time there is guaranteed to be an event but we'll still run plot stuff for that plot at other times'?

Essentially this, yes. Generally server plots are left with enough threads to work with for the rest of the DMs when needed. These times will be slotted for major server-wide events that will serve to strengthen/progress the plot on the larger scale. Other events relating to the plot can be whenever or with whoever, coordinated with whichever DM you feel relevant or can be available for you. And the days/times can change as needed for the best of the majority. However, we will never be able to fit everyone into one single time slot so I can't do much but offer the opportunity.

As far as I remember, the end of the Reyes plot functioned much in this way. It was pretty much on Saturdays in the evening. And plenty of people couldn't make that, but alas most of the server could. I understand your concerns and will note them down so we can find a way to work around those issues.

As for the few people dominating plots, there are some elements I cannot control. When some groups drop off the face of a plot and dwindle away I can't really pitch in for them and ghost write. However, this plot will try and cater to all facets of the server as each of them will be able to play their hands and make a difference. It will be something that will hold the interest of nearly all of Amia's inhabitants. That is the point of a server-wide plot.

If you don't like this method of scheduling, please suggest another!

Oh yeah, I don't mean to say we should try and include everyone, that's a complete impossibility hah. My listing on my zone was just to help illustrate my point; though your confirmation that the server plots will get run more than just once every two weeks or so fixes that (and I figure anyways, but wanted to make sure). Similarly I think everyone understand that no DM can control people disappearing, but barring those sorts of unstoppable/unfixable issues then making sure everyone has a fair shot is what's key. Though ya'll are already making sure of that which is good (something else I assumed but wanted to voice at least).

It's good you asked so that I could clarify, thank you much Naiv! If you have any more suggestions feel free to post again or PM me. Are you still iffy or leaning more towards a yes/no? Just so I know which side of the fence you lie for the final pooling

I think I'm in the two week category, now. Every three to four weeks seems long, and every week seems a little too much.

Noted!

I much like the idea of a server wide plot. But alas I have the same reservations as others voiced above. Timezones are the issue with big plots which tend to divide the server into those which can participate and those which can not, thus forming these so-called cliques of players which the plots tend to gravitate towards. This was the problem with the Reyes plot where events were mainly scheduled US evenings on Saturday, therefore cutting a huge chuck of the player base out. This was probably due to the fact that the plot was mainly driven by one DM who was in that timezone.

Maybe already considered, but my fix would be to run the plot through multiple DMs across the timezones, and have them tag team in and out of events. Or have them run their own seperate events in each timezone which tie together somehow with the larger plot. It would take some coordination but is possible with enough communication and planning by the team.

It is a persistent world afterall and not a table top game which is stopped and started at each sitting. The plots should be mirror the persistentness of the world, and be continually running whenever a DM is on the steer the PCs and NPCs through the plot.

Just a suggestion which popped into thought reading this.

I'm not sure how it would work out in practice, but what if you had 2 seperate moments each a week apart for a different timezone "group" (say US evenings and Euro Evenings). Both groups could make their move on that time, and react to what the other group did. I suppose this works best if there is a measure of competition between the two (and it has enough depth that it isn't a binary Good-Evil). But that's all subject to the nature of the plot.

Elorathall wrote:

I'm not sure how it would work out in practice, but what if you had 2 seperate moments each a week apart for a different timezone "group" (say US evenings and Euro Evenings). Both groups could make their move on that time, and react to what the other group did. I suppose this works best if there is a measure of competition between the two (and it has enough depth that it isn't a binary Good-Evil). But that's all subject to the nature of the plot.

That would lead to a diverge in the plot line.

I don't like this format for the server metaplot, it means that the server week become episodic and things will only occur during episodes m only people whom can actually make it during the pre scheduled events will be included and anyone who can't will be excluded by necessity. As a matter of principle, things need to be inclusive. Frankly NWN isn't the format for episodic pnp style events, they're two wholly different mediums that both draw from the same source but have two incredibly different paces and dynamics.

And to be more precise, I think scheduling like this works great for other stuff with smaller groups. I don't want anyone thinking I'm staying an absolute, I just don't think it works for the metaplot in which the whole server is expected to be able to participate in some manner.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I don't like this format for the server metaplot, it means that the server week become episodic and things will only occur during episodes m only people whom can actually make it during the pre scheduled events will be included and anyone who can't will be excluded by necessity.

Bumbles just was saying that other plot stuff would get run outside these 'set times'

This would just mean that at a specific point every two weeks or so an event relating to the megaplot would definitely occur. DMs would still run plot-related events at other times. Otherwise, this would be a really bad idea, so don't worry about that.

I meant sequential events. Meaning that the event of group 1 would in plot time be followed by that of group 2, which would be followed by the next event of group 1.

I really like the PnP based idea but I have to share Naivatkal's opinion. This will be nice but then it will backfire and it will get exclusive too.

I like the PnP style idea because it would make more sense in my opinion.....however, please do not make a server plot ever again! Make a dozen different plot in the same manner, let them interlock with eachother (if possible, if not...then leave it) and thus they can develop themselves into one greater plot. But starting a new plot again, saying that: "This is going to be the server plot" is rather counterproductive in my opinion.

Also...I think there is a server plot going on, why making another?

You do realize this post was made by a DM , and if there was a server plot there wouldn't be a need for this post?

And you're asking for more plots that join into a large plot;That's a server plot.

I think this is a excellent idea gives a scheduled event every few weeks that every player will know about. Also, anyone can join in on it because its a SEVER WIDE event not for some exclusive groups outing. Sure some time zones cannot make it, that happens nothing anyone can do about. I can say for one I have missed many events, that happens cannot always be on for everything so get over it. The point of it is to get more RP events going on the server to be honest anyone saying no are basically saying they do not want events etc....

I think the two week thing is fine ...

As a side note...

-I am not sure how to say this nicely , but everyone charc's does'nt have to be at -EVERY- event possible , so not making to one set of events yes it could happen but its not the end of the world. That's why we play in a persistent world because there are other dms and players that will "HOPEFULLY" push along the story. Rather then just event hop to begin with , which is a thing I noticed.

-As for being exclusive , don't really think you can't always do a forum post to said dm or to the staff and get info that would be relevant to your charc. I know I was told I could about random stuff pretty sure most people can as well..

-Since nwn is pnp just where everything being done for people ... Am I missing something huge about people complaining about pnp style events on a nwn persistent rp server.. Cause im confused.

My suggestion be that it is a specific day and or time but it should be relevant to change so that way the groups of players can be rotated if some one isn't available a Friday they might be able to make the next one which is a Saturday or the one after which could be a Sunday. That would solve the problem. It should be an announced date with time and time can even change so long as it's announced ahead of time. That should help solves the issues being presented.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I don't like this format for the server metaplot, it means that the server week become episodic and things will only occur during episodes m only people whom can actually make it during the pre scheduled events will be included and anyone who can't will be excluded by necessity. As a matter of principle, things need to be inclusive. Frankly NWN isn't the format for episodic pnp style events, they're two wholly different mediums that both draw from the same source but have two incredibly different paces and dynamics.

This is awesome. I fully support an initiative to get things moving again on Amia. I think that a lot of player reluctance about server-wide plots comes from the experience of our only prior storyline and it's destructive nature and clandestine (exclusive) build up. But a server-wide plot doesn't have to be anything like that, guys. It's just what our last one was.

To me, a server wide plot simply means making our server environment become alive, active, and interconnected. That doesn't need to be politics, either! And it doesn't need to involve a threat scaled to endanger the entire island.

I have a few suggestions, and you likely have considered these already (but I would be remiss if I didn't mention 'em):
1.) Firstly, any attempt to make a server wide plot is going to require 3+ Active, coordinated DM's with timezones that stretch to all players. And likely a project lead DM who can oversee, delegate, and make necessary calls. Slow decision-making affects players differently, and means that other players push plot progress unusually faster than others.

2.) Consider how all levels of play can be meaningful to the story. Some people enjoy clandestine RP, some enjoy politics, some enjoy adventure, warfare, exploration, mystery, etc, etc. In the last plot, the most fleshed out NPC's were political figures, and as a result players who politicked were able to experience front row seats at the general expense of others. One method of fixing this might be to create NPC plot protagonists and antagonists who are not government officials or wealthy individuals. While most player characters represent the wandering swordsman and gallavanting adventurer, it would help to engage their style of story by having NPC's in that category too. NPC's vital to the story!

I'm a player who enjoys political RP the most. And thus I have a different sense of reward than players with different styles. I think that players who enjoy personal story more than sandboxes would enjoy rewards catered to that. For instance, a DM might enjoy writing a DM Event thread more like a Novel than a news reel. Players can see how their actions have developed the narrative, changed the NPC's outlook, and even developed friends, lovers, followers all with dynamic means.

3.) Lastly, I suggest that if you do run an event every other week that you try to have those be more public events. Don't be afraid, however, to have it be an event for a particular area that does exclude some people, as long as those people are tended to and performed for next. In that same breath, don't be afraid to run an impromptu mini-event for even one player. I can't stress this enough. While at first, it might sound like a doorway to favoritism, it's actually to prevent it. If there's a plotline created and the only way I'm able to impact it is by being a part of a large, recognized group, that means that anyone on the outside suffers. Groups will have no issue finding, creating, and progressing RP. Don't be afraid to reach out to a single, isolated player for running meaningful events.

Okay when you say "just like a table-top game" - do you only mean that an event will occur on a regular schedule, or do you mean it will be a P&P game in other ways? A turn-based manual dice-rolly game consisting of no more than 4-8 players? I just need to clarify this, because the former is fine enough (if we can devise a better means of being inclusive without letting events become bloated, which I think we can manage) but the latter is a big no no no from me. My experience with P&P style turn-based play on Amia was the height of agony and stands tall as my worst experience on this server.

I'm a yes, but I wouldn't restrict it to only server-wide/server story arch plots. Like some others have stated, that feels like it would become exclusive. But I like the idea overall. At a certain time each few weeks, you can be sure something is happening, be it a second Godswar or a tomato-throwing contest.

Oh, and let's not have serverplots that are crazy insane like the Reyes' thing

'omgtheworldwillend' plots offend my sensibilities ^_^

Naivatkal wrote:

Oh, and let's not have serverplots that are crazy insane like the Reyes' thing

'omgtheworldwillend' plots offend my sensibilities ^_^

Trust me, as the one perpetuating and planning with one other, I'm not going to subject either you -or- me to that torture

As for the dice rolls, that doesn't quite translate entirely as it should be in PnP to NWN. However that could be utilized under certain circumstances or if the majority feels they want this. Could be another poll question! Though the PnP reference was simply for the element of getting together as a group at a specific time every so and so weeks. To make -sure- things are progressing and happening.

I'm noticing a lot of people that are complaining just sit in their faction areas with thumbs up their ass all day. Stop being negative Nelly's and do something yourself before you criticize when a DM decides to put some initiative into Amia because so many here seem insistant that it's all the DMs job to make Amia fun for you.

If you do not like this idea, do yourself and DMs a favour by suggesting something you would say is more viable.

I'm interested theoretically but the problem is, such large scale efforts require coordination and a great deal of cooperation and interest to involve the PC base as a whole.

I have concerns about these types of events just devolving into mass conflict scenarios and that's just going to burn people all the more out.

Other concerns come to mind but I would rather express them specifically to a DM I feel comfortable with, than air them publically.

Broldi, that's not exactly constructive. At all. Please keep your acidic tone to a minimum.

I know, I'm not a mod, but it goes without saying.

Grymia wrote:

I have concerns about these types of events just devolving into mass conflict scenarios and that's just going to burn people all the more out.

The more people there is, and the more chaotic and confusing it gets. I would suggest trying to reach out to different hubs without having to merge everyone together. Smaller plots tailored to their public that interlink together in the big picture.

And just as much as we want to separate IC from OoC as players, it still unconsciously gets to us at some level; we get attached to our characters, want it or not.

I would need to know a little bit about the broad strokes of the plot idea before committing to a vote.

I will hold off on my vote too. I need time to think!

I voted for 2 weeks because the more events the better for Amia, even if odds are I'll not be around to ever see them (timezones). I do wonder what you'll do when/if 30 people show up though. Good luck herding that many cats.

Unfortunately it's just a logistical issue if you play in off times you're going to have to accept that you're persona non grata in the scheme of things. It's no reason the server should suffer.

Naivatkal wrote:

Broldi, that's not exactly constructive. At all. Please keep your acidic tone to a minimum.

I know, I'm not a mod, but it goes without saying.

I could say far more on it, but I said what I said because it happens far too much. MightNMagic put it forward in a much more responsible manner, but I mostly agree with him.

"If you do not like this idea, do yourself and DMs a favour by suggesting something you would say is more viable."

I would say that is easily constructive. Acidic or no, you cannot deny that there are a lot that just complain with out taking their own initiative, or have stopped putting effort into their initiative. I'm sorry I am blunt about it. I had just woke up when I wrote it, however. Apologies for the toxicity.

*Crawls back into his pit.*

MightNMagic wrote:

I voted for 2 weeks because the more events the better for Amia, even if odds are I'll not be around to ever see them (timezones). I do wonder what you'll do when/if 30 people show up though. Good luck herding that many cats.

Unfortunately it's just a logistical issue if you play in off times you're going to have to accept that you're persona non grata in the scheme of things. It's no reason the server should suffer.

+1

I'm with MightNMagic and Broldi and other various people in favour of this.

There's a large, stagnant and forgotten clientele, these personae non gratae, whose playtimes are out of sync with the majority of the server's, which is when all the hubs blossom and fill with conversation. They would be happy to make the rare concession to lose sleep in order to get a piece of the action themselves, and having a scheduled event would give them the time to prepare for just that. With past (bad?) experiences in mind, you can start off with something modest and build on that - I'm sure you can borrow the wisdom of your peers and vassals, as many here have already lent theirs. (Isn't that what this thread is for anyway?)

I would certainly love to see more campaigns ran late nights, Sun,Mon,Tue. imo. (In East) I've pushed for my own somtimes with my Cormanthor Storyline. Even had Amrice add areas for it. It was by far the best elf event so far next to Loudwater. I would very much like to see future rp come of Semberholme storyline for us elves at least. Thank you Amrice!

Twice a week.

Quests are of utmost importance in a RP server, and Amia would greatly benefit from mini-plots that can be handled by the DM and/or players easily without necessarily turning into megaplots. Even one-shot adventures tend to be very very fun, and twice a week is a good span.

I'd however invite to even quest impromptu. Just roleplaying NPCs (like Tormak does every now and then) or getting players to do something as simple as the classic "my daughter has been kidnapped by goblins" and "there's an illithid in my basement" can turn a night around.

I think some of you are missing the point, and what's been said (at the beginning in the questions I asked):

This is asking about frequency of guaranteed to occur server megaplot events. This is not to say plots will only be run at the designated times, just that megaplot events will definitely happen at X time. Megaplot events will still be run at different times, and all various plots will run at different times.

Individual "Megaplot" events don't have to involve lots of people, either. They just have to be able to connect progress and development to a central, advancing story. Those events could even be faction or city based, or small and personal --just as easily as they could be big and public.

All I read from this is that the DM team is interested in creating a new central story (I much prefer the connotations of central story to megaplot!) and that in order to guarantee plot progress, something is going to be run periodically. So they're trying to see when we'd like it.

Then yes and no. The point "throwing crap from the sidelines is -really good- stands, but it would be nice if the events weren't always at the same hour, allowing various timezones to enjoy the quest. In general, be very careful about trying to involve everyone (especially newcomers!) and not letting the plottin' become a monopoly of a single faction or group, as it's ICly obvious that secretive parties wouldn't want to go around screaming about death and destruction to common folks.

In short:
#1 Yes to anything vaguely resembling quests, anytime, anywhere, for everyone.
#2 Variating megaplots with miniplots and one-shot might be less tolling for everyone involved, but still very enjoyable!

Even "exclusive" plots when placed in the hands of communal players will create buzz and a ripple of consequential roleplay, to be enjoyed and expanded at large. "mega plots" are incredibly tarnished in the amian eye due to past experiences of crawling pace, but an overarching theme and idea sets a backdrop for players to tangibly bounce off of. All this in mind I imagine giving the right (diverse, maybe even conflicting) organization of players a few complex puzzle plots that they are forced to branch out to conquer would be an intelligent move.

of course this is all on the assumption that people can contain themselves from trying to force the plot at a personal pace and direction.

tl;dr work together with the ooc knowing that it's fun for all even when you ic wouldn't. take the extra hit, slip and fail if it furthers the plot, relinquish some of that (dare i speak that dirty word) power for the beneft of others. this is rewarded by adding a dynamic and combustible edge of volatility that has you on the edge of your seat asking each time you log in: wonder what has been going on with y?

i was once told a story of the greatest cordorian guard, not because he caught all the bad guys, but because sometimes he allowed them to fool him.

I think it's obvious that I love long, wide plots that involve all sorts of people and things and places... so I'm obviously a "Yes motherfucking please." It also seems clear that a majority of the playerbase is in favor of something more detailed and expansive, even if it's not a "megaplot" or totally "Serverwide." The response to this yes is in the clear affirmative.

Specifically, I like plots that dig deep, that fuck you over and that make you think really really really hard... and I know that we're moving away from that somewhat because it can be too intense for some people, and we don't want to activate all sorts of triggers, but I think this thread is a good place to put out there that I LIKE that stuff- so it's okay with me, if my part of any plot (including new ones) is intense or serious.

As Hackums said, we all see different rewards. I like risks.

Even though I have recently started a new job which revolves around shift work and rotating shift patterns I think a set of regular event times will be massively beneficial to the server culture and morale.

They should not be used for mega server plots although of course they could be used to facilitate actions and adventures that bleed into larger plots, this should reduce their "exclusiveness" which lots of plots on this server have been reduced to due to a number of factors which need not detain us here but ultimately lead to dozens of spectators turning up to take part but ended up watching a pnp session run in effect for 5-6 player characters....

Personally I feel that such session would be much better if rather than having set plots which players may join in with, that the event time be a time when DMs roam the server looking for "organic" player RP they can stick their beaks into.

I can honestly say that the absolute best work I have seen DMs do on this server has been when a random NPC wakes up and gets involved, a particularly memorable occasion of this was when I first joined the server and was leveling up the very first incarnation of my Salandran "Abbey" and my party and I were hunting in the old Beastmen lair.
When suddenly (and most importantly with no notice from the DM) massive hordes of Beastmen started spawning a few moments after *strange horns begin blasting an alarm* and there we were a group of lower mid levels desperately trying to manage repeat tsunami of Beastmen! All the whilst RPing our little hearts out to all of the NPC actions and emotes the DM was utilising to ad lib the encounter. Just like a real PnP DM!

So in summary,

:arrow:

YES to regular DM sessions/event times
:arrow:

NO to crazy boredismygod OP plot lines being part of these even times
:arrow:

YES to DMs roaming during these times to seek out and involve themselves into "organic" rp.

I'm pooling the votes and will be following up with more polls!

I am 11 days late to this party because I rarely browse the forums anymore.

I sincerely hope that people have learned from the mistakes of events past. Huge, server-wide events never end up working. Too many people try to fit their square peg into a round hole by chasing those server shouts to get into the events. Honestly, I think DM time is better spent catering smaller events (which should fit into a larger narrative) to smaller groups. Have the Cordorians deal with an issue specific to Cordor without dragging the entire server along in the wake. Same goes for Kohlingen, Bendir Dale, Winya, Barak Runedar, and so on.

Anyway, good luck with this. I don't see it working out as well as people hope.

New Server Plot Initiatives (POLLS!)

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