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Hey everyone, I recently posted a guide to Magic in Ruathym in the lore forum, linked here: viewtopic.php?f=103&t=82627

Please direct all questions here as to not clutter the lore forum.

Thanks,

BoB.

How would someone who is distinctly anti magic fit into the setting? Would they be feared as some sort of witch or revered in their ability to so bluntly deal with deadly magic? For instance a SR and/or Anti Magic Monk.

What about bards?
I remember when we discussed that IG, that the Northmen society generally not just accepting but respect them, since they admire skalds. I know that they Ruathym society has already adopted a feudal system but the change is relatively recent and they still have tribal elements in their culture.
They would be alright as long as they won't prove themselves too wizard-like with visual effects, evocation etc.?

Maverick00053 wrote:

How would someone who is distinctly anti magic fit into the setting? Would they be feared as some sort of witch or revered in their ability to so bluntly deal with deadly magic? For instance a SR and/or Anti Magic Monk.

It would depend on whose side they're on, obviously. But if they were able to reject magic they would be considered a great asset, due to their ability to be untouchable and invulnerable to the corrupting arcane, and potentially dismantle it.

Lutra wrote:

What about bards?
I remember when we discussed that IG, that the Northmen society generally not just accepting but respect them, since they admire skalds. I know that they Ruathym society has already adopted a feudal system but the change is relatively recent and they still have tribal elements in their culture.
They would be alright as long as they won't prove themselves too wizard-like with visual effects, evocation etc.?

Yes. If they focus more on the skald-type paradigm, rather than being practitioners of magic. You keep that kind of arcane boogity-boogity to yourself.

We still like to party in Ruathym, just not with your witchery!

It's good to have this clarified, in particular the forge and shop items and stuff.

My geography of Ruathym is a bit mixed up: The same ideas also apply to Ostland, don't they?

Regards
Ts

Ts_ wrote:

It's good to have this clarified, in particular the forge and shop items and stuff.

My geography of Ruathym is a bit mixed up: The same ideas also apply to Ostland, don't they?

Regards
Ts

No, they do not. Ostland is more hateful and violent towards any magical use.

If Wiltun is like Batman, Ostland is like Bane. But like literally...

Thanks!

And Poison Ivy.. presiding over Bane's mental state.

On Artificers: Couple of things to touch on, since it wasn't referenced directly, "Magic of Faerun" (p.23) contains information about artificers and is 3.5 as well as FR and an earlier scource than Paizo at that.

However a few things on interest/concern, firstly is that as noted most artificer creations are for all intents and purposes non-magic, and as such it works in anti magic zones and would generally not be counterspellable, which doesn't seem to have been greatly considered. Next is both how/why Ruathym has a level of tech higher than that of other Amia regions (especially given the visible technological level is seemingly lesser than many other areas on the server) and seemingly only behind Lantan, which is basically the Gondish Gnome land of tech.

Futher this seems to be a LARGE inclusions of artificers and creates a number of questions in why if it is that used there are not more examples of artificer tech or PCs or NPCs about, which either means that it would either have to be a quite new developement or use a sizable amount of retconning and a bit of a suspension of disbelief especially considering that Ruathym is still rather more Barbarian like.
And with cannonical places even within Ruathym like the Green Room, I wonder why not instead go with runecasting which seems a far better fit, especially considering is relation to the Uthgardt related groups with whome Rune Magic is more common (certainly more so than Artificing).

Thank you for your comment. I recommend that you get in touch with the culture of our portion of Ruathym and Wiltun IG, and I think you'll find your questions answered, and find out that what seems to be is not what it is. Cheers.

Unfortunately Ruthym isn't much to my tastes, especially currently as I get too much of a "Game of Thrones" feel to it, which while fine, but of little interest to me in an FR setting.

My interest in this is far more on the Artificer side of things, since it is an interesting mix of the "scientist" in a magic setting, and coming from 3.5 is not one of the more "classic" classes. However its usage here has a strong effect on that Amian cannon and lore on class going forward, and so draws my attention to its usage in Ruthym.

Understandable. However, it's been used quite a bit on Amia already, and there is quite a bit of evidence of it in a few cities and settlements on the Amia Island. I think you might be a little bit out of touch with what has been going on in the last few years, hence my suggestion. The Amia Region and Ruathym Region aren't what you're thinking they are, respectfully, but I think you'd be pleasantly surprised and happy with how it has been, and will be, used.

Burningoutbright wrote:

Lutra wrote:

What about bards?
I remember when we discussed that IG, that the Northmen society generally not just accepting but respect them, since they admire skalds. I know that they Ruathym society has already adopted a feudal system but the change is relatively recent and they still have tribal elements in their culture.
They would be alright as long as they won't prove themselves too wizard-like with visual effects, evocation etc.?

Yes. If they focus more on the skald-type paradigm, rather than being practitioners of magic. You keep that kind of arcane boogity-boogity to yourself.

Well...the skalds have some basic boogity too! They like to manipulate the smoke of the campfire or whatever else sometimes with illusions or animation while they are singing their songs about the heroes. But I get the point!

Certainly not saying it has been completely absent on Amia, I mean clockwork spider golems, the Gnomish testing range, all that, even down to goggles/glasses. However those are fairly minor in relative terms. Just making sure we aren't getting into Latanese territory too much, unless of course Wiltun has kidnapped as set up Gnome Artificers in some type of sweatshop, which addmitedly would be amussingly great.

However I must say lumping in the items in their stores as being Artificer created does seem to cause issues in that artificer items work mechanically slightly differently (in usage of extra slots in some cases) as well as they are not meant to be effected by anti magic or the like which is an important factor. Otherwise I'm just not sure I see the IC gain since traditionally it seems like the issue with magic is more with the casters themselves rather than some magic sword. There is also the "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" thing, which I can't see most NPCs being able to tell a difference anyway.

I see where you're coming from but it's not your call on how the NPCs react or what they know, but thank you for the input. As for the other considerations about antimagic, it is an non-issue since we already handle those issues responsibly, and we have characters with abilities that work just fine in non-magic zones and are not dispellable. Shifters being the prime example, but then several custom DC items and favor/fluff things people have requested. You'll have to forgive me for not thinking of it as an issue in any way that requires extra consideration.

That was Just a general statement about NPCs in the Realms and a comment of believability of their reactions to me as a player.

Further its not an issue of them working or people handling anything "responsibly", but rather that unless those items in the stores there are all being swapped (or given a tag of some sort) then there is no way for players to prove a difference should it come up situationally.
Basically will there be any way to differentiate the items sold there from that magic based items sold in other locations on the server? (The WYSIWYG Priciple)

No, because it is not worth the resources to make a custom shop just for that. As far as potions and scrolls and other generic shop items are concerned. Further, most of the items are just clerically made. Other things will be reserved for DM events and discretion.

(As a small aside, Shiffter abilities are SU and thus go away in any condition that would suppress or remove Supernatural abilities, such as antimagic, like the no-magic cells (whether or not this enforced mechanically and with scripts). So. Carry on!)

LetumLux wrote:

(As a small aside, Shiffter abilities are SU and thus go away in any condition that would suppress or remove Supernatural abilities, such as antimagic, like the no-magic cells (whether or not this enforced mechanically and with scripts). So. Carry on!)

Is that your opinion or the DM teams ruling?

d20SRD on Antimagic fields wrote:

These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the field.

Temporarily nullified means they go away for the duration of exposure, so I'm not certain what the confusion is there. It means a Shifter in an antimagic cell would not be able to use their shapeshifting while they were in it. That's just straight D&D there, no opinions or rulings. In NWN, antimagic unfortunately means "dispel only" (see: Beerholder antimagic gaze, which should suppress, but instead dispel due to the limitations of the game), although in RP situations a DM might use their discretion to say that instead the magic (of any kind, active spells, or innate magical abilities) is only suppressed and will come back as soon as they are not in antimagic/deadmagic/shenanimagic. That's up to individual DM discretion for whatever they may be running, though.

I misread what you said. :oops:

Simply for Transparency sake, I assume most forms of shadowdancer abilities would also be vilified and reacted to with nothing but hostility, Especially considering many of them are rather easily misinterpreted and quite a few negative connotations are some of the first thoughts many people have regarding it. Could I get some clarification on the following?

So,

~Summon shadow (Shade): "Conjuration" - Generally hated.
~Shadow Daze: "Enchantment," Also uses ancient Netherese as a verbal component - Generally hated, I assume
~Shadow Jump: Teleportation, especially at night. - Most likely it's generally hated
~Shadow Evade: You're drawing some dark mumbo jumbo around yourself, pretty creepy. - Probably generally hated.
~Glowing eyes: I'm confused about this, because it can be easy (sort of) for an advanced Shadowdancer to pretend they're a monk, and considering monks hold some semblance of respect.. -Clarification?
~General "Other" fluff things Shadowdancers can do: i.e. Shadow tentacles, Anti-light, Shadow coating, etc. - I'm guessing these are also generally despised, especially since they can come across as a sinister form of magic.

I might be a bit biased in my asking, but it's good reference to have none the less!

Curious, how much is known about all the druidic, super-tree juju by the Ostland populace?

Do the people view a difference from say magical created potions, and ones made with alchemy using plants, parts from monsters..ect

Caraigh Ceyren's Mill has a leyline right in the middle of it. How does Caraigh view people portalling into their town? Clearly someone is stepping out of a magical portal. Does this fall under "you better be a northman priest"?

Wiltun's become pretty popular as a new hot spot lately. If you're a magical practitioner (arcane) and you visit there frequently and everybody knows you're totally an epic mage, do they still accept you so long as you don't cast magic there? Or are you instantly kind of frowned upon and people are unfriendly towards you? Like I'm wondering how long a very magically active mage could be buddy-buddy in the demographic over there while everyone knows what he/she's up to back in Cordor.

Kind of included in the above, do people still "talk" about magic? Amia has a lot of PCs that do research, magical focuses, make new spells etc. If they started smalltalking about their new arcane spell, or even spell theory, experiences with magic etc. would they be told to shut it?

I'm new, so right now my feeling of Wiltun's mood is "Oh yeah this magic thing? Everybody still does it on the side we just don't talk about it"

Question: Lets assume that everyone under the sun already expects a PC to be vilified without waving an arm, because of their reputation, but said person doesn't go near establishments and avoids likely interactions with patrols when possible. Is it assumed that this person would have no problem tossing out ninth circle spells, and the only consequences of the action would be from the populace itself if they found out or were alerted otherwise to it, or is there something more at play? It seems like the answer would be that said PC would be frowned upon, and potentially hunted, but there is a possibility they are okay with that.

Quote:

~Glowing eyes: I'm confused about this, because it can be easy (sort of) for an advanced Shadowdancer to pretend they're a monk, and considering monks hold some semblance of respect.. -Clarification?

While I can't and won't answer your question, some food for thought is that in PnP when monks earn their glowy eyes (achieve Perfect Self), that's also when they become treated as an outsider. Monks are certainly venerated and respected for their craft, but I think it's telling that after a point in which they achieve such talent and discipline that their ki powers elevate them beyond being considered human!

Raua wrote:

Simply for Transparency sake, I assume most forms of shadowdancer abilities would also be vilified and reacted to with nothing but hostility, Especially considering many of them are rather easily misinterpreted and quite a few negative connotations are some of the first thoughts many people have regarding it. Could I get some clarification on the following?

So,

~Summon shadow (Shade): "Conjuration" - Generally hated.
~Shadow Daze: "Enchantment," Also uses ancient Netherese as a verbal component - Generally hated, I assume
~Shadow Jump: Teleportation, especially at night. - Most likely it's generally hated
~Shadow Evade: You're drawing some dark mumbo jumbo around yourself, pretty creepy. - Probably generally hated.
~Glowing eyes: I'm confused about this, because it can be easy (sort of) for an advanced Shadowdancer to pretend they're a monk, and considering monks hold some semblance of respect.. -Clarification?
~General "Other" fluff things Shadowdancers can do: i.e. Shadow tentacles, Anti-light, Shadow coating, etc. - I'm guessing these are also generally despised, especially since they can come across as a sinister form of magic.

I might be a bit biased in my asking, but it's good reference to have none the less!

Most creepy weird stuff is despised, yes, but some of it is because it has never been encountered before--shadow dancing, for example. It's a new weird foreigner thing and is ill understood, and has a high potential to cause them harm. It's pitchfork and torch territory. However, conjuration and enchantment are always going to be No. Too much reason, previous experience, and superstition to make that accepted. Because you should realize that these people have witch hunts and lynchings, you would probably want to keep your creepy weirdo stuff to yourself for your own health and wellbeing, and you not, not wanting to end up drowned as a witch or hung from an oak tree.

The monk eyes are fine.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Curious, how much is known about all the druidic, super-tree juju by the Ostland populace?

You will have to ask them IC. That is a good question, but it is a plot question with spoilers.

corypx wrote:

Do the people view a difference from say magical created potions, and ones made with alchemy using plants, parts from monsters..ect

Yes. Alchemy and artifice of potions from infusion is treated differently than potions brewed from arcane magic. Divine potions are also treated differently, but there is little way to tell them apart--except for alchemy potions, which taste and smell bitter, etc, from the ingredients.

Blue Moon wrote:

Caraigh Ceyren's Mill has a leyline right in the middle of it. How does Caraigh view people portalling into their town? Clearly someone is stepping out of a magical portal. Does this fall under "you better be a northman priest"?

Wiltun's become pretty popular as a new hot spot lately. If you're a magical practitioner (arcane) and you visit there frequently and everybody knows you're totally an epic mage, do they still accept you so long as you don't cast magic there? Or are you instantly kind of frowned upon and people are unfriendly towards you? Like I'm wondering how long a very magically active mage could be buddy-buddy in the demographic over there while everyone knows what he/she's up to back in Cordor.

Kind of included in the above, do people still "talk" about magic? Amia has a lot of PCs that do research, magical focuses, make new spells etc. If they started smalltalking about their new arcane spell, or even spell theory, experiences with magic etc. would they be told to shut it?

I'm new, so right now my feeling of Wiltun's mood is "Oh yeah this magic thing? Everybody still does it on the side we just don't talk about it"

Arcane is seen as a threat to the entire region, and in the past (mostly on Caraigh now) people were pressed with stones, locked in towers and starved, drowned, hung and burned for that sort of thing. It hasn't occurred in Wiltun's recent history, perhaps since the first time Ostland ceded from Greater Ruathym during the time of Wiltun II and III (we're on Wiltun V, now, for reference). Wiltun is wary of magic, and if you are found to be a magician, they will be prepared to kill you if you try anything. Because your life is in danger, it is probably better for you to not act or dress like a magician, unless you want to die or be imprisoned, etc. You are a heathen in their society, it's best to not flaunt it.

The leylines are warily and cautiously trusted and understood as a natural phenomenon, which some artificers were able to master with those nifty wands from that Monolith that used to be there, that was destroyed (rightfully so! according to them) but its own wicked arcanistry, or so they will tell you. You won't be lynched for using a leyline, but you would for opening a gate.

Faded Wings wrote:

Question: Lets assume that everyone under the sun already expects a PC to be vilified without waving an arm, because of their reputation, but said person doesn't go near establishments and avoids likely interactions with patrols when possible. Is it assumed that this person would have no problem tossing out ninth circle spells, and the only consequences of the action would be from the populace itself if they found out or were alerted otherwise to it, or is there something more at play? It seems like the answer would be that said PC would be frowned upon, and potentially hunted, but there is a possibility they are okay with that.

I have no idea what you're asking. Please PM me or Skype me with what you actually want to know.

Hello.

Would libraries of Amia; Cordor, The Delta Mage Academy specifically have books on the means the Northerners use to detect arcane magic? I'm more than happy to request some DM time, if that's how this'll go!

I'm playing a tiefling wizard. She's absolutely terrified at the prospect of being burnt alive, and given her travels may inevitably bring her to Ruathym - she's starting to research means of staying hidden, and inconspicuous in the Jarldoms.

Hey, great question. The Mage Academy at the Delta is your best bet, because they're from the Moonshaes, which are nearby the southern Jarldom of Wiltun. Hiding your magic in Wiltun is really simple: don't walk around with visible magic, don't cast magic, don't talk about magic, and don't dress like you are a magic user--leave your stave and wizard hat and weird mystical robe at home. They don't have any means, currently, to mystically detect magic. It's all superstition and hearsay, so don't attract attention to the fact that you're a practitioner of the arcane.

Even if you're suspected of the arcane in Wiltun, no one will burn you or hunt you unless they suspect you're guilty of witchcraft. Since your PC is a tiefling, they might look at you sideways since it's fairly common knowledge that having that kind of mixed blood makes you both dangerous and prone to being a sorcerer, which almost immediately registers as witchcraft. Wizardry is more nebulous, because of the Mystran Monolith previously having influence in the region and doing their damnedest to make peace and promote tolerance and understanding of magic in a region that traditionally hates and fears magic, and has every reason to. All the same, arcane magic (even conducted by wizards) is considered a threat to the entire region. The best a wizard can do is keep their magic underwraps enough and restricted enough that they can feign being a rune caster or an artificer.

On Caraigh they are in a hotbed where I think it was some 40ish years ago, a corrupt Jarl practiced arcane magic and brought forth the blight of Orcus and undead from the abyss, so any hint of arcane magic or suspicion of it will be reacted to with hostility--better safe than sorry, and better to torture an innocent than let a witch potentially go free. Ostland is even worse--where Caraigh people may try to burn you, drown you, or stone you to get you to confess, Ostland will slaughter you without question and call it a night.

Hnnh.

So, the tiefling I asked the question about above went and perused the information she could find on Witchcraft.
After some lengthy RP, I'm looking to roleplay her as a wizard/druid - which I've realised probably falls under the purview of 'Witch'. I believe i read somewhere you based the lore of them on some mixture of arcane magic and druidism at the very least.
She's currently 13th wizard 4 druid - and has been mostly living from a hut in Amia Forest. At the moment the cross over of her skills is minimal, and having found the 3.5e version of witch I've been RPing her as experimenting with combining elements of arcane and druidic magic. - I'm typing up a request for 'Witch' now, and I suddenly remembered this thread existed.

I know there is a roundhouse filled with dubious hags in the forest too, so I was wondering if Rook were to possibly learn this magic from them - would it be the same brand of witchcraft created for Ruathym?

I'm just curious as.. basically. I'd love to know if she'd get any wierd sensations or feels different when on the Islands. Thanks!

Magic in Ruathym

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