AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Active good guy-factions?

Are there any active goodie factions or groups of players on the server lately? All I tend to see is neutral or evil peeps walking around.

I could be wrong, hence I'm asking. This could be also a timezone-issue as activity tends to be the largest on the server when its night here.

Kohlingen, the usual goodie base, doesn't seem to have much activity compared to the older days for example.

There is the Dwarves and Wiltun, though the latter is about as 'goodly' as a sack of potatoes.

The dwarves tend to focus on domestic issues (Brogendenstein) more and being in their Citadel. I run into them most of the time while going to the Citadel to sell hunting loot.

And Wiltun is more neutralish.

Ahahahahaaha. See: all of amia

But Seriously, elves grove bendir kohl cordorexcept west, the newest Kelly faction is predominantly good iirc.

No, Tom is correct. Our typical Good Guy factions have died out, partially perhaps in being so closely tied to a city (Kohlingen, Shrine, Cordor to an extent, etc) has exhausted them. The more neutral and evil factions even if based in a city are less restrictive and offer more free play due to less morals and less broad ethical concerns. I think it's just kind of the result of a very large plot that locked a lot of our goodies up for years in focusing on that one thing that it's nice to play characters that give less of a shit than their last.

BoB has the jist of it.

As a sweeping statement its not just good, all of amia has lulled continuously downstream. The lights are on but nobody is home.

More like they left the house to have wild parties in Wiltun, Runedar. The former is prolly more active than it's ever been before. Been seeing a lot of spot activity from DMs of late too which is improving the situation.

Wiltun still feels more of a neutralish faction. With good aligned pcs within it ofcourse. But still more tied to Wiltun's general aim in foreign politics.

Oh yeah I agree we're neutral, just addressing claims of downward mobility.

Good PCs seem sprinkled throughout existing factions it seems.

Serb is also correct. Plenty of goods are aligning with established factions that survived, which are neutral and evil. Wiltun itself is LE.

The dauntless tries to be NG

Good felt bad for evil and valiantly let them win. :wink:

Quote:

The more neutral and evil factions even if based in a city are less restrictive and offer more free play due to less morals and less broad ethical concerns.

Btw can't really emphasize this enough after having played a paladin for 3 years now on the server.

Also, evil pretending to be good seems a fad. So, even the seeming good groups are mostly evil.

It's old too.

The War Knights are a good-guy faction. Though I am unsure if they remain active since I was last on. Maybe you can seek them out?

Another suggest would be for you to make your own faction. Make something unique Amia hasn't seen yet. There's to many evil guys I agree on that. Become a Holy-Knightish person your use to playing. If you don't want to shelve Tom you can make a faction based off of his deity. I know their are a few of those buggers running around seeking some deed to do.

T0mc4t89 wrote:

Quote:

The more neutral and evil factions even if based in a city are less restrictive and offer more free play due to less morals and less broad ethical concerns.

Btw can't really emphasize this enough after having played a paladin for 3 years now on the server.

Definitely, but in this setting, you kind of have the wind at your back at least. It's difficult on both ends of the spectrum, I'd say. The middle is the easiest and most comfortable for most to play, because you don't have to commit to doing anything consequential, and no matter which way you side on most matters, it's still universally acceptable most of the time.

I suggest picking up where Yaston left off, if you want a knightly faction again. I'm not sure who took the helm after him, but factions need leaders.. once they have those, they'll start having players.

Yeah, well this has always been an issue. People tend to mix up the RL good and evil with the good and evil in the FR lore. They are apparently not the same. Obviously from a RL perspective a morally gray character, that declares himself or acting as "good" guy can be more attractive to play, since it may reflection of the player's personality. It is pretty much a trend nowadays, however, I always felt that it is not entirely correct when it comes to lore.

I've never seen any of the factions as wholly good IMO, and that's okay. Any city-state that considers itself a group is going to have some level of intrigue, shadow laws, dark secrets, abuse of privilege, inequality, and precarious saddling of other livelihoods that generally fall into the realm of 'necessity'. Seeing as survival is the base route that all groups need to take in order to flourish.

You're very rarely going to get away with doing anything good or evil that will not be spun against you by those you are in competition with. That's how that works.

We're out there. But we're not shiny.

I don't mind GoT-style rp which is very interesting if you can keep yourselves involved in it. But it becomes tiring when its become the main theme of the server and there isn't any counter to all that. In other words, everyone is suspicious of each other one way or the other except to those closest comrades and friends.

No pure shiny goodie group out there basically.

I think part of the problem, at least for me and it has been touched on by others already, is that the "shiny good guy" is both more restrictive and more difficult to play well than a more morally ambiguous character.

As far as groups go, the closest things that come to my mind would be the Grove (I realise its more neutral but probably closer to being a "good guy" group than a lot of others) and.....the new Kelemvorites? They are also more neutral I suppose though, but I would say they are generally anti-evil at least

I hope someone out there will realize this as an excellent opportunity to come up with a brand new, unique idea for a super goodly faction. You literally have NO competition right now, jump in! I don't have any specific recommendations other then try to come up with something not tied to a specific city, deity, or race.

Maryn ninja'd my suggestion, we've established a need so you guys need to get your characters together, check with your mates if they have a suitable PC (like me!) to join and then find a good place to get started. Corbz Mercs and Samz are all running little events here and there which would benefit from having a Pally team chasing them down or just staunch goodly folks getting involved and avoiding the entanglements of politics which have been the bane of many a Goodie. I agree with that one post somewhere above - it's demanding, and I know many paladins find their unyielding and uncompromising nature to hedge them away from the moral ambiguity inherent to many cities/factions. But it remains highly rewarding RP for those willing to sink the effort in.

well, I'm exploring the super mega hawtness of goodliness with my rogue, Calasar. You can try to corrupt him if you want (have fun there), or you can invite him along on some super mega hawt goodie escapades. I am not sure I'm gonna really pursue a faction with this character, besides being a lackadaisical member of the elven faction... which I don't really know if you really need an invite to join... I think you can just be like... "I'm an elf. Enjoy me."

Lol. Elves in a nutshell.

I'm an elf. WORSHIP me.

That's more appropriate.

Good guy faction: Kelemvor Doomguides. No reason ya can't ally with us!

Estara wrote:

Lol. Elves in a nutshell.

lol

wait, you already said that

MazeOfThorns wrote:

Good guy faction: Kelemvor Doomguides. No reason ya can't ally with us!

^Got a good mix of LG and LN.... even the LN are nice, we won't kill you until you commit the crime. Working daily on our deadside manner!

NinjaClarinet wrote:

We're out there. But we're not shiny.

Great in theory; poor in practice. The support simply isn't there anymore at least for the concept I spear-headed. Unfortunately, I relied too heavily on a lot of plot-interaction that is only available to very niche groups at a time these days. Our group was formed with the expectation that there would be an overarching server plot and active NPC leadership. With those things, our faction would have worked just fine. With the current layout? Not so much.

This is compounded by the fact that those who do get access to the very few plots that are available are not likely to search outside of their core group. (And let's be honest after years of playing on the same server with the same people [alt accounts not withstanding], this is not likely to change or vary much. People know who they do and do not like to work with)

It's unfortunate, but the server wants what it wants. Goodie factions ain't it. (at least from my limited vantage point)

Dorf's!, and we dont just stay in our fortress, we go many places..like the ..umm mountain! and the barbarian village!

Well, no one ever said good factions also had to be sober.

Well, for a while there all we had were the good guys completely snuffing out the bad (I.e, Kholingen vs Thayans). There was great conflict stemming from that but the baddies felt discouraged for a time. I'm not sure how somewhere down the line, the tables turned. Maybe due to the lack of DM support over areas or what not, I can never really pin point where the issue is here because there's never just one.

But, my main is a good aligned character. I love to play her, and she's as good as anyone gets. But she isn't exactly part of any factions. Partly it's her character not being able to fit into any one group entirely as she is and the fact that she doesn't really interact that much socially besides her duties. But partly its also because, personally, I feel there is truth in AzureLuna's post. I'm guilty of this too. We all know who we do and don't like to play with. The factions on the server kind of reiterate this idea, and outsiders/third parties find it really hard to assimilate themselves into these group without feeling like the odd one out.

I can attest to this personally, because of all the groups or factions I've attempted to join, I just didn't feel the same acceptance. Apart from the factions I joined in which I was with a player I had already interacted with in depth. It's an issue that is rampant in the community, but its also just a factor of being human. We all want to hang out with our friends, but at the end of the day its not healthy for anyone.

It's something I've been trying to break away from, and I encourage the community to try and do the same.

AzureLuna wrote:

...the fact that those who do get access to the very few plots that are available are not likely to search outside of their core group. (And let's be honest after years of playing on the same server with the same people [alt accounts not withstanding], this is not likely to change or vary much. People know who they do and do not like to work with)

It's unfortunate, but the server wants what it wants. Goodie factions ain't it. (at least from my limited vantage point)

I have to disagree with this part. It may be your experience with your "core group", but I have seen, and experienced a far different aspect, which leads me to my conclusions. I actually see a good bit of faction mixing going on, and an odd assortment of characters coming together for a unified cause. Not only have I seen it around my character, but he's even drawn in to other plots. I have turned down RP, just so I was not labeled as you put it. In my opinion, in my time on this server, there is plenty of "good guy" faction RP to be had. Make it happen, it comes in cycles, where one fades away, and their RP is played out, another rises to take its place. The long standing factions endure, because of perseverance and a lot of patience (a lot of patience ...repeated for effect). Unfortunately, it's easy to get bored when you're not involved, so characters and factions become abandoned for the next new thing, or plot. In my character's time with the Grove, the stagnation periods are where the "fill-in" RP is found, which generally develops into getting involved with something, even if it's helping someone with their Request, it's something. Places like the Grove are not very active, in terms of plot involvement, but there is a level of RP with the few members that keeps the faction alive, so when the plot involvement comes into play, there we are, ready and waiting. It is what we make it, if you want it, you'll do it.

Obviously everyone's experiences aren't going to be the same, but what you propose Crow isn't the reality for some of us. It's extremely rare for Amia to be entertaining for me for a couple reasons, and there's very palpable clique ostracizing happening that isn't necessarily fair or IC. I'll try to explain.

Emilie and Vale's faction, rightly or wrongly, built a considerable amount of infamy that drastically hinders their ability to get involved with much of anything. DM events are rare, and are usually populated by characters that make an active, IC effort to exclude and push away anyone involved in this faction. A large population of characters (and NPCs!) has made it their prerogative to continually undermine the reputation of this faction and increase their negative notoriety. The Amia setting is not one that forgives easily (or at all), and there is a very strong, DM/NPC backed anti-redemption culture. There is a prevailing, unspoken agreement that characters seeking atonement are being "played wrong" and their efforts are actively hindered by concerted effort rather than facilitated. It takes absurd heroics to make any sort of progress, and it really strikes me as awkward and artificial (The book of Exalted Deeds mentions the word redeem or redemption 86 times, with whole chapters relating to the concepts and processes. I challenge anyone to name an NPC, in Kohlingen or elsewhere, that lives up to those ideals, or even attempts to).

This really sucks, as it effectively means the character is cut from the game. A social "perma-kill" as it was, because few DMs (perhaps justifiably so) are willing to invest large amounts of client time on a tiny insular faction for any meaningful story arcs. In essence, the story of these characters has ended, with the exception of giggle-poking or petty dramas. IC will be IC however, and you have to deal with the cards you're dealt.

I tried to resurrect one of my older characters, who is a complete unknown to the current crop of characters. I attempted to get involved with several new cliques and plot lines, but each time I was given a polite "Thanks but no thanks", and given not-so-subtle IC clues that maybe Talyne would have better luck helping out Emilie and the phoenixes. I don't have to explain why that isn't possible, or why suggesting, IC, that I put two of my characters in the same faction is a dick move. I was, in essence, told to go back into my box and to not even try. I really take that as evidence that it's more than just IC stigma and reputation, and that there's some pretty crappy OOC attitudes prevailing in the server culture atm.

It has been a very long time since I logged in to play, but the last several times I did, what NC refers to there was painfully clear to me as a player. Like, crystal clear.

I have been trying to combat that- and I think Mercedes and STGS have shown that new DMs are trying their hands with new groups, too. However, overall, I have to agree that there are some salient points in NC's post and that Sam has been personally caught up in the "cliquey"-ness at times. It's part of what inspired me to create Caron a few months ago... And OMG has his life been hard. Even people I associate with OOCly socially castrated my new character before he really got chances to do anything. Hahahaa! He is a little crazy though.

It seems to me NC, that you are in one of those 'down times', which as I mentioned, cycle. I feel for those who have to always be in the mix, or involved in something. The down time is when you work on things, requests, IC relationships and contacts, character development and such. Use it to your advantage. Remember too, the premise of the Phoenix group, to be the adventuring party to beat all, and save the world from epic disasters of epic proportions. This, when the server was crying about long drawn out server plots to stop, and focus on the little things. The server got what it asked for, and some things might not work as planned now. Make it work. It's not the server's or the DM's fault that your group was formed for a specific purpose, and now it isn't going as you planned. You went into it knowing what it was about. And yes, I have read your arguments about the DM Staff, and how you feel neglected in requests and advancing plot lines. Guess what, everyone gets a piece of that, you're not alone. I am not intending to flame you here, but I feel that a lot of this is personal for you, and you see things from a jaded perspective. I see things differently, because my character gets around, sees and hears things. I get bored too, a lot, but I also realize that my character can't always be the center of attention, in fact, he rarely is in the "Limelight", but he may be involved in some way. I would dare to say that the Grove is one of the least active factions, but has always endured. Starting, and maintaining a new faction is never an easy thing, it takes a lot of patience and dealing with frustration. Hang in there, and you will see.

Kudark has it right. People get neglected all the time and I doubt that it is something specific against you NC personally. It pretty much happens with all of us.

Lutra wrote:

Kudark has it right. People get neglected all the time and I doubt that it is something specific against you NC personally. It pretty much happens with all of us.

Pretty much, this.

You missed the point entirely. It wasn't a cry for DM attention.

Having worked with, dealt with and thought on the Redemption of PCs extensively I'm going to have to say that you're misreading the situation. I'm not even sure how Redemption even came up - none of the BP's aggrieved parties have noted any such efforts (and we're in touch). If you mean "doing good to balance out the bad" well you may simply be going about it the wrong way. Absurd heroics are largely a stroke of luck and can't be counted on. But for my own experiences - a lot had to do with individual attempts at reconciliation, hindered by my PC's prejudices and the flaws which led him down the dark way to start with. And it was a long, ongoing process, people never forgave him for things of ancient history - things which weren't nearly as bad as what BP did (from the perspective of certain players).

There's no use quoting the Book of Exalted Deeds because its "how to RP" guide was written for a completely different environment with different mechanics. Some of the ideals are pretty damn absurd. Yeah, there are PCs who are legitimately in the throes of redemption. Those who have successfully gone against the grain. There are those who fail. There are those who will give you a chance, and those who you have to wear down before they'll even listen to you. Reputations explode, especially when negative incidents are left unaddressed. IC consequences for IC actions - and we can't just ignore the IC actions of the aggrieved just because it leads to someone not having fun. I mean, that would hardly be fair, would it? :wink:

Like, I don't know everyone who interacts with you, so whether or not you are being OOCly mistreated isn't for me to say (but really should be discussed with a DM instead of making nebulous digs at the playerbase... especially if you want people to RP with you). But when you try to throw the genuinely aggrieved into the same box as people who are being unfair I'm inclined towards the debunk.

just a reminder, this is the OP:

T0mc4t89 wrote:

Are there any active goodie factions or groups of players on the server lately? All I tend to see is neutral or evil peeps walking around.

I could be wrong, hence I'm asking. This could be also a timezone-issue as activity tends to be the largest on the server when its night here.

Kohlingen, the usual goodie base, doesn't seem to have much activity compared to the older days for example.

Admittedly, I haven't really been a part of the really big faction conflicts of server, but from what I've seen a lot of Good groups have problems finding a motivation other than "smiting Evil". The problem with that is that once Evil has been vanquished or driven underground (which is the case with just about every outright Evil group on the server nowadays - there might be more of them, but they're keeping a low profile) you're kind of left hanging.

I think any Good faction that wants to flourish these days needs at least one overarching motivation that isn't just "being Good". Evil groups aren't Evil for the sake of it, they're either after power, acting according to a divine imperative, or both (hello Banites). Similiarly, Good groups need a banner to follow. Say you have a group of Chaunteans working to improve agriculture across all of Amia, possibly drawing the ire of the Grove or followers of the Furies. Or you could have a group of Eldathyn diplomats trying to create a fantasy-UN, their idealism having to face the murky politics of the region.

The Kelemvorites are a good example of this. I've run afoul of them for breaking their rules doing something that benefited the peoples of Amia (although if it was Good is another matter), and it created great RP and meaningful conflict. More of that, please.

Very good points Larsaan. I've noticed around the time open evil tapered off the good factions left too. Too easy now to play neutral and be morally ambiguous to everything. Each decision has just as much flexibility and carries almost none of the consequences among your social peers.

I like neutral

and my characters still have a lot of social trouble, even if they're more and more morally ambiguous these days... Sigh!

Larsaan wrote:

Evil groups aren't Evil for the sake of it, they're either after power, acting according to a divine imperative, or both (hello Banites). Similiarly, Good groups need a banner to follow.

I think that's a bit simplistic. There have been evil groups who are genuinely trying to do the right thing, but their methods don't align with classical "Good". Power is either a means to an end or something they already have and use.

I dunno if it's really a problem that we've moved towards Neutral focus in general because as we've established, the alignment system is several kinds of ridiculous. But it does mean that anything that fits the more classical D&D alignment system will have some growing pains as they adapt.

If the server wants conflict brewed by the players, it's far less likely to come from people in the neutral alignment. Without the two extremes, the server is mostly relying on the DM's to initiate the conflict.

I've got to agree, and city based factions aren't really conducive moral extremism. Even when it sneaks in it's usually subdued to the point of acceptance of the chain of command or the powers that be.

I only bring that up because it's where I see the majority of faction based PCs of that alignment spectrum thread days.

Active good guy-factions?

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