AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Vote! Should the Archery Hood drop on B too?

So... we currently only have one epic helmet. The archery hood. For some reason it currently drops on A only.

(yes we will redo the epic bin once the others are redone but till then...)

I found that weired and said it should drop on both servers as the amount of bosses on A is very limited.

Glimmy believes the hood is useless and our playerbase would maybe not like it because it would take away the chance for another item.

Anyways he suggested make a player poll so here we go, vote away. Leaving this for vote for a week.

The helmet stats are: Feats: Called Shot, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.

Many times, ranged characters have the feats already. But it's always fun for a melee character to be able to more effectively play a ranged role, if necessary. I like it.

Kinda fun for monks, clerics and druids with zen archery too!

I wouldn't mind one in Crow's inventory, if he ever comes across one.

Any Melle or feat limited person would love that

I think it should be available on B. I could find builds that could use it.

I'd like to have it.

Glen is using it and it is awesome.

I didn't even know this existed and I want it.

DireCorbie wrote:

I didn't even know this existed and I want it.

Question:
If an archery based character finds one. Can they do a rebuild and no longer need to take those feats? Would they still be considered as good of an archer even though their mechanical benefits come from items instead of innate ability from feats gained from leveling up?

Seems the whole idea we've been settling in requests to not allowed feats on items to replace something a character should take to emulate something is being disregarded on this item. I believe the item is crud. If archery is not your primary skill you wont be doing a ton of it anyhow. If it is your primary skill you'll already have these feats. But it seems 'unfair' to disallow emulation of PrCs by putting feats on gear if they pay DCs for it and then have items that allow someone to instantly became halfway decent with a crossbow or a bow at the same time.

That being said, third option- remove it from A and B. It gives feats that do not add to characters who invest in archery anyhow and only benefits those who don't. By doing this you narrow the gap that a devoted archer has over someone who doesn't take those feats but that same devoted archer does not gain crap from this. I realize this opinion may be unpopular but I've always maintained epic gear should not only be usable by a niche character and that it should benefit archetypical characters as it is pinnacle gear it should be epic and increase something a character has already invested in - not to be used as a replacement for not having the right mix of classes to earn feats, the right ability scores, or that sort of thing.

Actually, those feats are allowed in requests.

I will post a list soon with which feats are and which are not. Same with some other stuff.

I feel the topic is kind of flawed, as its two questions in one.

Should the basic epic loot be the same from A to B?
Is the Archery Hood epic enough to be epic loot?

For the first part yes, for the general epics dropped by Fire Giant, Pirate, Beholder, or whatever else, should all be the same. So if this hood is an epic item, i should be able to get it everywhere. For the second part, well, thats another topic, if the hood is not good enough for epic loot on B, it is not good enough for A either. Fix it, buff/move or whatever.

The second question will be picked up when that lootbin is re-done.

Until then, only the first is of interest here.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Question:
If an archery based character finds one. Can they do a rebuild and no longer need to take those feats? Would they still be considered as good of an archer even though their mechanical benefits come from items instead of innate ability from feats gained from leveling up?

No. If you get your abilities from an item, you aren't skilled in that thing, you're just able to perform to an equal standard thanks to artificial bonuses. If you rebuilt out of those feats you'd no longer be capable of performing them ICly without an item doing the work for you.

I don't know about you guys, but to me it boils down to this. Would I rather get something like an Ioun Stone or Epic Gloves/Bracers from a drop, or one of those hoods? Because adding that item would decrease the chance of getting the more useful items.

Is it neat? Sure. For a few characters. But you can get a better helm with stat bonuses rather than feats from some of the merchants IG, and make a few small adjustments with mythals, to get something much much more useful.

That's where I was coming from with my questioning of the idea.

But I will cede to whatever the poll ends up as, since it's like a 2min change if the desire to add it wins out, so really no skin off my nose either way.

Well, by that logic it should be removed from both loot bins and added into the +4 bin, or an archer shop somewhere? (Winya)

Only reason i vote yes is because it seems like a bug that it is in one epic bin, but not the other is all.

I'm gonna say no, just because I think things would be far more interresting if the lootbins were not just different on A and B, but having epic drop bins differ between bosses.

The problem I have with equipment based feats, is what happens when they go away like the ring of the ram? Before the ring change, it was common to not take knockdown on a melee character just to save a feat in your build. The ring went away, because the DM team felt it was too powerful to have on an item. Archer builds will have those feats, though I know it's been said in the past to not take them because of an easy to get item. (this hood) That's the same argument that was used to remove knockdown on the ring.

I voted no, because like Glim I'd rather get something useful from an epic drop.

To continue with what I was saying- the ring of the ram comment made me want to revisit this.

This is the same thing to me as improved evasion ring and the gloves of balanced hands. Knowing they exists in the module, allows me to do different combinations or ability assortments on builds than I would have done before.

I voted yes, but with the following addendum

Make it actually epic rather than just a curiosity piece, as has been said archery based characters wont benefit from it and whilst it might be useful for zen archery characters its still not really epic imo just useful.

We're not going to look at rebalancing items at this time.

This is simply a question of do we add it to the B loot bin also, or leave it as is. Those're the two options right now.

Vote! Should the Archery Hood drop on B too?

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