I'm curious to see what people want to know about the Moonshaes, who plays a Moonshaes character and the potential for integrating that into the world RP of the islands more substantially. Especially seeing as eventually the Moonshaes will be incorporated, in whatever manner it ends up being! It could help the Devs in the long run and it will definitely help us as players. As some people know, my newest (and most insane?) character Caron hails from the Moonshaes himself. I have some general questions that I'll start with and some that I'll save for later, depending on interest in this particular topic.

The Moonshaes

[*]How do you see the Earthmother as a Goddess/Divinity? Do you see her as incorporating into Mielikki and others off the islands, or do you see Moonshae folk as being firm in their stance as Her as an entirely separate entity?

[*]What is your take on relating it back to Irish/Celtic/Gaelic culture?

[*]What do you think of the combination of bardic and druidic lore and customs? How do you see that interplay affecting a character/your character? Do you respect nature more? Do you see the two as intertwined and/or inseparable?

[*]What class is your character and why?

[*]What do you consider the influence of the fey, overall? Which fey do you know of in particular?

No one? Rogaku, Delen?? If I could tag names I would, but I'll just use this as a little bump and maybe poke you all when I see you! I know you know about the stuff, too, Ninja...

If it's because people are worried about their character details bleeding through, I get that! Keep it vague and/or many-sided. Caron obviously promotes much of this IC as well, but there are distinct differences to the OOC side that I'm curious if others of you fill out for yourselves!

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

On a tangential note, I literally cannot read that font colour on that background at all. Weird.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

It was kind of hard to read. I posted it without looking at that late last night. Fixed it now.

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

Moonshae sounds pretty awesome for my celtic type barbarians, honestly. I've been wanting to make a fin mac cool style bard as well <.<

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Roll up your ideas here in the thread, bob~! A barbarian or a bard would be cool. My own bard has a mixture of nature and music going on in his development, and it's panning out in an interesting manner. I'll roll through and answer the questions myself here in a bit, too.

You should hop on the SDD, Derk! Comb over that lore with me. What stuff did you take from Celtic? What from the others? They do contradict on some things, and it can't be all three. Or it can be, and clusters of islands can represent different parts. I definitely have my own opinion on the Northerners of the Moonshaes and how to tie them into Celtic lore...

I would shoot for a barb/bard if it was any good. But I can't see it being useful. My bard/wm might be a fun thing to do that concept with but I have other ideas as well.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Moonshae folks and the Celts are not really "barbarians" at this point, they are not even violent. Those are the Northmen who are sorta like a mix of the southern/northern German tribes are the ones who have the barbarian/bard traditions, most commonly known as the Skalds.
I think that concept would fit more to the Northmen population of the Moonshae.

As for these questions

Put one of your concepts up to the test, bob! I'd be super interested in how you view it. On your answers, Lutra, Chauntea/The Earthmother are the same to you? Or Chauntea is a representation of The Earthmother? Or The Earthmother is a representation of Chauntea? It seems like subtle differentiation, but in the schema of culture, it seems to me that it would be highly pertinent to note! And the Celts... I only partly understood your answer. You're saying because the Celts were so spread out, it doesn't make sense to relate them back to only the Moonshaes?

I still haven't answered for Caron, I know, but I'm just too absorbed in everyone else's answers for the moment.

Yes, Chauntea and the Earthmother are one and the same, from what I've understood in the lore!

As for the second half, it was merely a correction to what is known as Celtic. As I mentioned in the post, I think that the pre-Christian Irish/pre-Roman Breton era would be the best comparison to display the Ffolk culture.
A few exceptions would apply though:
- Historical druidism, like almost every religious tradition during the Iron Age, involved very serious blood sacrifices. That would not apply to the Moonshaes.
- The so called "Woad" warrior idea might also not apply, since the Ffolk culture might be too pacifist for that.

I could list a few more but I think this should be enough!

I only just caught sight of this topic now :3

If you go by the 4.0 and onwards system, The Earthmother of the Moonshaes is actually a primal entity, seperate from Chauntea. Though for 3.5 purposes, they are considered one in the same.

Regardless, people of the Moonshaes know the Earthmother as Jannath, with her own set of ideals.
I'll vow to post more details about my play of my druidess of the Ffolk when I'm not blind tired. At least I know this is here now ^_^

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Account moved to LeathanKayne.
Delen and Fosco will see ya on that one!
(If you PM me on this, I likely won't see it for a long time >.>)

The Moonshaes

[*]How do you see the Earthmother as a Goddess/Divinity? Do you see her as incorporating into Mielikki and others off the islands, or do you see Moonshae folk as being firm in their stance as Her as an entirely separate entity?

The Ffolk definitely look at the Earthmother as a separate entity. She has played a direct role in the development of the Moonshaes, and manifested several "children". The Earthmother of the Moonshaes (who I'll refer to as Jannath from now on), has a very separate identity from that of Chauntea. Her values are in fact closer to that of Silvanus than Chauntea.

Though this is taking from 4.0 and onwards, we can use the future to establish the past.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Chauntea wrote:

In the wake of the Spellplague, Yondalla was revealed to be an aspect of Chauntea. While the Earthmother was considered to be a very prominent aspect of Chauntea in the Moonshae Isles, the Earthmother was actually a primal spirit.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Earthmother wrote:

The Earthmother was believed to be an aspect of the deity Chauntea, but in truth she was a primal spirit representing the power of nature on Toril. The Earthmother was venerated as a goddess by the Ffolk, the native human inhabitants of the Moonshae islands.

The Earthmother had three "mortal" servants: The Leviathan, the Unicorn, and the Pack (an enormous pack of well-coordinated wolves), each with powers beyond the usual for their kind due to the Earthmother's favor.

I researched all this before creating my druid of the Ffolk (Delen Tredinnick). This is how Delen would explain things in her own words:
"Since coming to Amia, I have heard the Earthmother referred to as Chauntea. I don't know if this is an aspect of the Earthmother my people know, but I cannot follow a her. I follow the Earthmother of the Ffolk, Jannath.
As far as I am concerned, she is the only true god of nature. To us, she is depicted as a tree, as the earth itself. Not given human form. I have heard of these other deities of nature, and other deities in general, but I have always considered them aspects of Jannath, or simply powerful beings who have a following, but not true gods."

Jannath and her druids don't preach the dogma of Chauntea. Though they certainly believe in sowing and reaping harvests, they are more taught about the balance of life and to not live beyond their means or take more than they need.

Further separating Jannath from Chauntea are her Moonwells. These are sacred deep wells hidden among the Moonshae Isles, and said to be direct conduits to the Earthmother. Her druids come to pray or be healed at the Moonwells.
If a druid has committed any crimes against the balance (such as raiding a den of goblins for treasure, not out of necessity), then drinking the water of the Moonwell will do nothing for them. It may even make them sick.
Those druids who are in Jannath's favour will be healed, as per the spell itself, by drinking from the Moonwells. And animals may be healed or put out of their misery by drinking water from the Moonwells.

The stories of the Moonshaes are deep, and I've not read all the novels, but I have read a lot of the campaign material. To the Ffolk, there is no question. Jannath is their goddess above all others. Some may praise Chauntea, thinking she and Jannath are the same, but this is due to the bleed of cultures hitting the isles.

I don't lore-hitler anyone because of this. The damage done by the Northlanders and other outsiders coming to the Moonshaes has torn away at some of the Ffolk's customs and even their language. But for the strictest tradition bound druids, they will adhere to the old ways.

[*]What is your take on relating it back to Irish/Celtic/Gaelic culture?

Just as many other D&D lands have been distinctly based on real cultures, so too have the Ffolk. This is no better illustrated than reading about their native tongue, "Waelan".

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Waelan wrote:

Waelan was the native language of the Ffolk.

Speakers:
Waelan was spoken by the Ffolk of the southern Moonshaes, although by 1372 DR the majority of Ffolk in the Isles spoke the Illuskan language of the Northlanders who had invaded their native home.
The Ffolk who had migrated to the Five Kingdoms of the Utter East also spoke Waelan.

Dialects:
There were two major dialects of Waelan, Proper (spoken in the Moonshaes) and Five Kingdoms (spoken in the Utter East). The two dialects were substantially different from each other due to their isolation. Proper Waelan was also influenced by the Northmen settlers and traders from Zakhara.

Related Languages:
The term "Waelan" also referred to the group of languages including Waelan and Cosh, a little-known tongue spoken in the Nelanther Isles.

The two secret druidic languages, Drueidan and Daelic, were derived from Waelan.

Script:
Waelan and Cosh used the Thorass alphabet; the druidic languages had their own secret script.

Inspiration:
Waelan is based on real-life Celtic languages, such as Cornish, Manx, and Welsh.

[*]What do you think of the combination of bardic and druidic lore and customs? How do you see that interplay affecting a character/your character? Do you respect nature more? Do you see the two as intertwined and/or inseparable?

Both Druids and Bards are highly respected among the Ffolk, both seen as natural magics. Druids play an extremely big part of life for the Ffolk. Even their high queen is herself a Druid.
Bardic tradition ties in closely with the druids, though with their own set of talents. All other magic is viewed as shunned and dangerous.
The biggest reason for the inclusion of bardic magic is two-fold. Tradition, for one. And the fact that both druids and bards (along with the majority of the Ffolk) worship the Earthmother Jannath. There is no separation of deities for every occasion like in other places.
Though Druids hold the highest spots in Ffolk culture, Bards are a close second. There's no confusion about this. It's always made sense to the Ffolk. Rather, they see the outside world with all the varied religions as dangerous, and will actively work against outsiders who try and come to their lands to teach other gods.

Example:

Forgotten Realms AD&D 1st Edition Moonshae wrote:

The clerics from the Sword Coast strive mightily to bring word of their gods to the Ffolk of the Moonshaes. The Ffolk, steeped in their traditional worship of the goddess as the earthmother and guarded jealously by the druidic councils, tend to resist this conversion.
This conflict is primarily a peaceful one--it is not uncommon for a community of Ffolk to include one or two clerics, while most of the populace still pay their respects at druidic groves nearby. Occasionally, however, violent disputes flare up--the followers of some of the more war-like gods have been known to torch a grove, driving its druids into a religious frenzy.
The druids are not without recourse. Many a worship service of new gods has been disrupted by sudden appearance of spiders, rats, or bats--creatures summoned by the druids to invade a temple and scatter the congregation.
While the healing powers of the clerics cannot be denied, and their wisdom is great, the druids retain control of the Moonwells. Through these pools their link with their goddess remains strong. The conversion of the Ffolk, if it is ever successful, will take many more decades, perhaps even centuries.

And on the subject of magic...

Forgotten Realms AD&D 1st Edition Moonshae wrote:

Neither the northmen nor the Ffolk readily accept the presence of magic in their societies. Both cultures are highly superstitious, taught that arcane power is a tool of the gods and their agents. The people tend to view wizards as untrustworthy, if not downright evil.
The primary magic-users of the Ffolk serve on a council for the High King, at Caer Callidyrr. ((Note, this is before the High Queen took charge)). While ostensibly under the High King's control, the mages in reality practice their arts for their own ends, allowing the High King just enough control to convince him that things are not getting out of hand. These wizards are a patient bunce, and are content to watch the forces of society at work, only prodding these forces occasionally to move them in a desired direction.
The Ffolk, by and large, are suspicious and fearful of the council. It is the fear that gives the High King useful leverage in retaining his post as the mightiest king among the Ffolk. However, the mages are notoriously fickle about helping the High King extend his domination over the rest of the Ffolk.

It is also worth noting that there is a severe distrust of magic due to the catastrophic incidents on the isle of Flamsterd. For a time, that isle prospered under the control of magic. Crops flourished, livestock thrived, and nasty storms that beset the rest of the Moonshaes seemed to pass Flamsterd by.

Flamsterd, the magician of the same name as the isle, had many apprentices...

Forgotten Realms AD&D 1st Edition Moonshae wrote:

They began to bicker among themselves, and with their teacher. Soon their conflicts had escalated to the point where several young mages died from the acts of their fellow students.
The Ffolk began to flee from the region of Flamsterd's tower as these incidents grew more frequent and more violent. Hideous monsters emerged from the chaos to wander free on the land. Owl bears, leucrotta, and other bizarre creatures terrorized the people of the isle.
The long peninsula of Flamsterd became a wasteland, subject to the ravages of magic. Throughout this conflict, the hand of the great mage was missing; it seemed to be only the destructive acts of his young disciples that caused noticeable effects.
And then one night the peninsula and the tower exploded.
Half of the island vanished, and the sea quickly rushed in to cover the scars. No one knows exactly what happened, but Flamsterd and most of his apprentices have not been seen since.
Now the island is a bleak wasteland of poor farms, small fishing villages, and the occasional wandering horror that survived the cataclysm.

Elminster's Notes:
"I make this entry with sadness, for Flamsterd and I had become fast friends in our decades together in Waterdeep. The mage was always a trifle, well, eccentric, but he was a true master of his craft. In fact, he was in many ways a pioneer in the development of the arcane arts.
I find it hard to accept the fact that he is dead."

Anyone see now why Delen so vastly distastes arcane magic? :3

[*]What class is your character and why?

Druid, of course! I wanted to make a true druid of the Moonshaes. I studied hard for this so I didn't go screwing up lore on people who have looked at the Moonshaes in depth themselves, or who have read the novels (which I still haven't done yet!).

I often call Delen the "Paladin of druids". The entire core of her character centers around her absolute dedication to the natural world, and her unwavering faith in the Earthmother of the Ffolk.
She shuns arcane magic and the influence of outsiders, and the intrusions of cities upset her greatly.
Though she is a good person, she does sometimes take courses of action others might find cold and unfeeling. Though her behaviour might make her seem more on the true neutral end of the spectrum, she doesn't decline aid or walk away from a problem without a heavy heart. But nature is a cycle that includes death. She cannot nurse to health every straggling animal she finds, and that goes for people and society as well.
Her faith though guides her to be a good person, and if she can help an innocent out, she will. The number one group of people she considers not to be innocent though... are adventurers.

[*]What do you consider the influence of the fey, overall? Which fey do you know of in particular?

The fey play an almost subservient role among the nature of the Moonshaes, to the Goddess at least. The druids of the Ffolk respect the fey greatly, and afford them their distance. Fey in many places watch over the land where the Ffolk cannot. One of the greatest servants of Jannath is, afterall, a unicorn.

This is direct from the sourcebook for the Moonshaes, that the fey of the isles include (but are not limited to!):
Dryads
Faerie Dragons
Leprechauns
Nymphs
Nixies
Pixies
Sylphs
Unicorns

Fey don't play a big active role in Ffolk culture (to my knowledge!), but they are highly respected as servants of Jannath.

I've answered all I can think of at this moment! I'll try and come back to this from time to time and add more. I'm glad that this is being looked at! I don't mind any corrections people cite to me, and I'm more than happy to help clear up any misconceptions that I've hunted down in detail.

Woosh!

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Account moved to LeathanKayne.
Delen and Fosco will see ya on that one!
(If you PM me on this, I likely won't see it for a long time >.>)

Here's a question for you Moonshaes people: are the Unseelie active at all on the islands? And is there any precedent with faerie of the Moonshaes, Seelie or Unseelie, making pacts with mortals? I ask because I was thinking of a concept for a rustic Blackguard that makes a pact with an evil Fey rather than a Fiend or Demon.

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First, I'll answer speaking from what I know, DI. There are fey active on the islands, and where there are Seelie, there are almost always Unseelie. They may not have Courts, they may simply be skirting the place, but there are undoubtedly deals and bargains and pranks being pulled around the fringes- and there is a factual reference to fey somewhere. I know that NinjaClarinet has a good idea on the specific fey influence in the Moonshaes, where as I'm making it a learning process as I work out Caron, but... I imagine that what you're looking at is a creative possibility that has some basis for fact. To what I know, across all the Realms, there is no set precedent of a fey-blackguard deal in rulebooks, although it may have already been done on Amia. I think that was put in the Blackguard FAQ that Letum requested, too!


Next, for my turn to finally answer! I have found some forum time, after this long while.

The Moonshaes

[*]How do you see the Earthmother as a Goddess/Divinity? Do you see her as incorporating into Mielikki and others off the islands, or do you see Moonshae folk as being firm in their stance as Her as an entirely separate entity?

Caron defines The Earthmother, or "The Mother" as he calls her, as a completely separate entity. He doesn't always make this clear to everyone, although it is no secret. She is Greater Than, she is More Than, she is Separate and Special to him... The Earthmother eventually comes out as being a primal spirit, and I find that I enjoy that in 4e, though it doesn't apply to Amia (at least not yet). The place is alive with Children of the Mother, speaking animals, Moonwells that are natural wells of primal power that reach into the earth... so in this I relate to Caron. She doesn't /feel/ like a Goddess. She is more connected to their earth, their people, their power.

The Moonshaes are not a place for altars to distant Gods that reveal themselves through signs- it feels wrong to them, and I wonder if this is in fact the biggest reason that clerics of other Gods fail there so much. It is not that the people disagree with the Gods Dogma, but that they cannot Know them the same way. The Earthmother Makes Herself Known. She is around you, and that is why druids are raised above all else. She is the Most Important, and Her People Know.

That being said, Caron acknowledges that other people may feel differently and is not so difficult about this topic. I just find it very interesting!

The Moonshaes

[*]What is your take on relating it back to Irish/Celtic/Gaelic culture?

I relate it in a similar way to Suicidal, and not really in the way that you go about it, Notgaret. For me, and how I've developed Caron, it is more about the dive into a culture, into its beliefs and how its people feel and how they think and work and function.. things like language, things like symbolism. I do not try to relate the specifics of Irish/Gaelic history to the specifics of the Ffolk, although there are definitely clear similarities and differences. I try, instead, to understand how a people who make their entire life about lifting up druids- and nature- and The Mother of them all would feel about the simple ideas of feeding someone who was starving, or speaking to stranger on the road. And how the Northmen would feel about these people they've fought with who do that!

In fact, in the Moonshaes, to those of the Ffolk, it seems that there are usually "Ffolk" and "Other." One is treated almost as family would be, no matter how you know or see them, and the "Others" are treated as children treat strangers offering them candy- with wariness, suspicion and distrust. This part of the culture is lost on Caron in many ways, due to his bardic nature and his history of trauma, but many may notice that Caron is indeed immediately drawn to someone of the Ffolk and will trust them with much more than might be smart. But, for these people, isn't it smart to keep themselves to themselves? The world is threatening them with Gods and progress- and they don't want it! They want Their Mother, and their peace, and the world to let them alone...

Except when one has a burning curiosity to learn.

The Moonshaes

[*]What do you think of the combination of bardic and druidic lore and customs? How do you see that interplay affecting a character/your character? Do you respect nature more? Do you see the two as intertwined and/or inseparable?

I asked this question because of a specific path that I think ties so well into the Moonshae culture. The idea of a rustic bard, or a ranger-bard, or... anything like that. A bard that connects with animals, who sings for the plants as much as the people. It is an art that I think is often played by the Fey, or the Fair Folk, but couldn't this Moonshae culture imply and develop the same sort of thing? For Caron, this plays into how he sees and respects plant-life and the quiet wisdom of things. He is such a talker, sometimes, but little do people know that Caron will talk to trees- and enjoys such- and imagines that they hear him and can talk back, and perhaps they have!

It may explain why he rambles, or why he endures philosophical questioning.. but even more than that, I think that the bardic/druidic dyad is a fascinating and wholly underplayed in other parts of the world. Bards travel, and play, and can love the wilderness... but nowhere are they respected as the Sages, the Masters. That is usually a spot reserved for the wizards and the sorcerors, but upon the Islands of the Moonshaes, the Bards are those things and more. Their magic is respected for its compliment to beauty, to nature and to the representation it can bring about in the physical world. It is not a whirling of colors, a spark of dragon in the blood, or confusing scrawls upon the page that only 'mages' can speak...

You can sing the song with them, even if it doesn't produce the same effect, and this creates a relational and communal atmosphere that I am excited to see brought in with the addition of the Moonshae islands at some point. I imagine the beer halls of large, wooden tables and people with accents calling down the road to one another- and strangers being immediately noticed as one might be upon Caraigh. Caron cannot recognize all the differences between music and nature, but he does come face-to-face with it when he tries to emulate druidic customs with his musical power. Since there are no Moonwells for him to travel to, not as many Sages to gather with, he has been struggling to find a way to connect his music more directly to the powers... and I am wondering what it might bring forth.

The Moonshaes

[*]What class is your character and why?

I feel like I answered that a bit with the last question, but to go a little further in depth.. Caron is a bard because he was born that way. Especially with him, I like to think it was something as natural as who you are attracted to. For him, it is both blood and personality, both passion and need. He couldn't live without music, but sometimes he has an aching wonder at what it would be like to not care so much...

The Moonshaes

[*]What do you consider the influence of the fey, overall? Which fey do you know of in particular?

I will be vague because I know my knowledge is incomplete and hopefully someone else may come in and clarify more. (Ninja?) The Queen is definitely related to the fey, and the fey are related in general to the wellbeing of the Moonshae isles and the Ffolk. It is not clear how directly all the time, but it is a very... mystical place. The Earthmother is a primal spirit, after all, and who is to say how close that is to the Fey? Perhaps that is what they are, were or always will be, in some fashion?