A month after sitting through an hours long meeting, reviewing 100 page transcripts, drafting outlines with key points and then the ever ensuing lengthy discussions that follow.. We finally have a summary that we feel is ready to present to the player-base for further discussion.

Before we get into the point by point DM team analysis of the major subjects we discussed, the Team wanted to thank everyone for the amount of heart and passion that we have seen from you all these past few weeks and even months. For a lot of us, this server has been a labor of love and a dedicated avenue where we can escape the rigors and frustrations of real life, if only for a few hours a week. This server holds a special place in my heart and I know it holds the same for a lot of you.

A few quick notes on what you are about to read:

• Yes. Yes this is a lot to read. - It was for me. Tough cookies!
  
  • This is about as down and dirty as we could get it without sacrificing relevant content that encapsulated a lot of the discussion.
• The breakdown follows the direction the meeting discussion took. Oddly enough, discussion followed major topics and subjects.
• We want this summary to not be any sort of checklist for completion, but a template to help stimulate further discussion. Namely on the direction of the server.

With all of that being said: For those of you brave enough to read it all, have a good read and let us know what you think. You might find some cool initiatives woven within some of the subjects.

*Cough*Leveling discussion.*Cough*

Requests and Forum Moderation

To us, player communication and discussion has been clear on this matter. Requests have, at times, been an intimidating and daunting undertaking for many players. Requests were sometimes met with rude and dismissive answers and even the simplest requests would sometimes sit for days without answer.

The players asked us in the meeting, as a response to this issue, "Do we need player moderators?" The answer to that question became a "Yes" and "No." - "Yes," we need moderators to help manage the forums, freeing up our time to answer requests and DM. (An initiative that Letum has already launched and we expect to be extremely successful.) However, the "No" is that we do not need extra-player involvement in individual requests, unless approved by the requester. We want moderator help in managing placement and removal of posts, not the creative content within those posts or private forums that we all hold so dear.

In response, what we have tried to work on, and will continue to work on, is maintaining request standards but doing so in a way that provides substantive and meaningful feedback for requests. Hopefully the players have seen a difference in our responses and the tone by which we make them already. We've made a conscious effort to do a better job of this and hopefully you folks making requests are seeing some of the fruits of that dedicated labor. - We want to reiterate, just like we did at the meeting, that we encourage PM's, questions, anything that can help the Team help you. We want to encourage you and assist your creative direction, hopefully ensuring that you make the best request you can.

Development and Balancing

During the player meeting, we briefly discussed current balance concerns that were brought up by a player. While balancing concerns are valid to voice and discuss in the "Improving Amia" thread, what we want to stress is the work that is required when making any changes related to balance, drop rates, area changes, etc.

Amia has an amazing Devlopment team, led by Glim. These guys are the balancing gurus and those that were present for the meeting were quick to mention that making one change for the sake of balance, as an example, usually creates a host of other changes that must be made to ensure that everything remains balanced for everyone. Making substantive changes for the server's benefit is something we want to be focused on, but please understand that the changes take time, they take discussion and they take testing.

It is the Development team's duty to review, manage and execute changes and we want to leave this in their very capable hands.

Leveling and DC Gains

One pressure point that we discussed during the meeting and have had supplementary forum discussion on is the stress of what I'll call "grinding." Because we are currently applying our focus to other initiatives, we have not slated any changes to ECL's or partying XP level ranges at this time, but some ideas are currently being bounced around to extend the party range for the "grinding." In lieu of those changes (and hopefully to begin mending some of the pain that those of us who would rather RP feel) we wanted to unveil certain alterations that we will be making to the DC leveling structure to help.

We are going to be implementing a change to the level achievement structure and the gold conversion per burnt DC:

• For levels 2 - 20, Players can burn 1 DC to progress to the next level. For levels 21 - 30, Players will be required to burn 2 DC's.
• Gold will now convert at a rate of 1,500 gold pieces per level, per burnt DC. (From 2 - 30, that gives PC's a total of 1,080,000 gold if DC leveled only.)

With this updated structure and the Development team's work on progression leveling, new quests, and other role play initiatives like investigating the possibility of Area Exploration XP, we believe that players will have a wealth of avenues to pursue and achieve a fully leveled character.

Banning & Transparency

We're taking a hard look at the processes that we use to determine punishments for server rule violations and personal conduct unbecoming of a community player.

Permanent banishments were directly discussed during the player meeting and some present agreed that it was an extreme use of punishment for a perceived slight, while still others said it seemed fitting for the offense. As discussion progress, some went so far as to vocalized that they themselves would never wish to outright ban someone for any violation.

The team agrees and disagrees. A permanent ban is the ultimate level of protection that we can offer players, and the server, against others who join our community and continuously grief, stalk players in game or real life or cheat systems to break the rules in their favor. What many players might perceive as heavy-handed, DM's may determine to be just and fitting for the crime. The team has to be cognizant of privacy, but what we have been asking ourselves is how much can we communicate to the player-base without infringing on the privacy of others?

One thing we are sure of, is that there is no way to continue enforcing rules or punishing offenses without jeopardizing our trust with all of you. What we, the Team, have to do is establish in stone the guidelines that we use and ensure that we stick to the letter of those guidelines. Hopefully that includes loosening some of the confidentiality we keep for some of these offenses.

DM Activity

There is not a single member of the Team that would contend with the assertion that we as a Team have not been dedicating enough of our efforts and time to the player-base through story, events and forum response. In the recent past we've seen a decline in player initiatives because more and more, the DM team has been relied upon to progress stories and area development and that sometimes feels like too much for us to handle and more ways for us to let you down. - In a lot of ways, this is not an incorrect expectation. The Team was asked to oversee more and more and over time we have found ourselves stretched thin, burned out and unenthusiastic as a result.

The question stands, "How do we solve this problem?"

With recent absence and departures, one answer is clear. We need fresh blood for the blood gods in the form of new members for the team. As a process, DM's have always been selected by current members of the team via suggestions from current members, or discussions by player applications to join the team. We look for players that we believe can bring value to the server as a whole, can offer unique times in coverage across time zones and can serve varying roles. We desire that diversity to keep perspectives fresh and we fully expect the next set of players we anoint to bring us that. We're hoping to have some announcements soon but we are fully aware that we have got to get coverage back up and in a somewhat sustainable manner.

What we propose as another solution is a refocusing on player initiatives. We are your facilitators, overseers with the ability to change settings to fit player held meetings, festivals, tournament battles and more. We'd love to see that spark again in the minds of the players because you guys are the creative minds that drive the direction of current events. We want to give some of the power back to you as we work to help reinvigorate the necessary communications between players and team and cooperate on giving your initiatives new life.

For any of this to work, we've got to work on communication again and while it is impossible for us to watch, observe and reward everyone for every awesome tidbit of role play, we're rededicating ourselves to work towards that end. So, PM one of us, draw our attention to a post. Go so far as to demand that you get a response from the DM covering your area or your initiatives and we'll keep each other accountable to get you those answers.

The Underlying Issues

We had, what could be considered, a round table time for discussion as players voiced different items that they considered the small things that have not only caused stress, but have affected the direction of our server as a whole.

We want to focus on some of those highlights to illustrate them for the players and hopefully stimulate further discussion on these points:

• Communication needs to be improved.
• There have been perceived witch-hunting/intimidation tactics used by the team.
• We need focus on the foreground (the PC's) and not just the background or settings.
• We've been in "Serious Mode" for so long that playing has stopped being fun for a lot of us.
• We need to protect player freedoms, continuity and past approvals.
• Do we need a boss daddy DM again? Someone who fills the role of that accountability?
• We, as a team, can loosen up on some of the strictness some associate with requests and playing freely. We are hoping to do that while still maintaining a semblance of standard.

All of this ultimately amounts to a discussion on the greater direction of the server. The team believes that this will require new life and new creativity from the player-base, while the DMs start to slowly give up some of the micro-managing controls that we enacted as the player-base started asking for more and more from us over time. Things may never be as free-spirited as they were initially, but we are hopeful that creative liberty can be maintained and role play standards can be held.

OOC Lounge

A pretty neat idea came up in discussion when talking about the benefits of a completely OOC lounge where players can hang out and just goof around. This presents an interesting opportunity for players -and- DM's to have fun talking with one another, but we're not sure on how to best execute an idea like this. We, of course, have the OOC entry room and other maintenance and waiting rooms linked to it, but that not really fun.

If a purely ooc lounge did exist in game, our fear is that server space is taken up by players that are not actually in game, role playing. This being the purpose of our server, we want to be careful to maintain that integrity and not encourage unnecessary party chat and immersion breaking interactions.

We may need some further suggestions from the rest of you as we weigh this lounge idea. Because the entry room isn't really set aside for a purpose like this.

Conflict and Evil Role Play

This, as we identified during the meeting and in subsequent forum discussions, is a difficult subject to tackle.

Everyone has their own perspective, their own style and their own opinions about what evil and conflict works best for our server. One thing that we want to make clear is that there is no wrong answer. All forms of conflict and evil role play are valid and conflict is not always limited to evil characters. Even good and neutral can have conflict with one another.

What we saw discussed were concerns that evil factions often got the proverbial "shaft" when attacking and acting against those good and neutral groups, or even each other. D&D can often be about the good guys winning, so we need to work to find a balance for those of us who don't always want to be on team "goody-two-shoes."

As mentioned in our statement on DM activity, we want to be your facilitators. That means opening communication with us about what you want to accomplish, so we can ensure that any changes your actions make can be reflected by the Dev team and won't have world-shattering results that break certain functions for server areas. (Kohlingen be damned!)

Many of us love the sweet, sweet darkness that comes with role playing evil characters and you will find that many of us want you to succeed. Whether on the subject of PvP or settlement altering change, we are here to help those of you who are just looking for that extra bit of assistance. Because, let's face it, DM's can add their own measure of conflict through plots and events, but we should not be the sole source that drives it. - We don't want to be. - We want to give you the tools and ability to be self-reliant and focused on your crew's or your personally, deliciously evil goals.

We're going to fine tune the rules on PvP to help alleviate some of the confusion that comes with direct player combat, but we want to see what you guys think on this as a whole and hopefully see some energy from our baddies on their own plans.

Seems like you all had a productive meeting. Seeing as I've only recently returned, I wouldn't know much about the issues mentioned here, but it certainly seems like The Team is getting ready to make a bunch of changes for the better. The best part of it all, I think, is the prospect of evil to be something worth fearing.

_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko

Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale

I will start off saying that I am optimistic, given what is outlined here and the recent handling of things on all sides, definitely seems like the correct direction being taken to things which is nice to see.

As for comments on anything posted; For the OOC lounge, not much opinion of that either way but implementation wise putting it anywhere that you have to reach statically would be a hindrance to its purpose, seems like it would be best served by just having it be somewhere you port into. Also that keeps it clearly separated between IC/OOC.


For Conflict RP, players need to be set into rolls where they can help continue to generate that, my own thought would be dually on possibly some type of "new beginnings" like event to establish some more Neutral/Evil presences on Amia and then also look for evil/neutral players and groups that already exist but might be under utilized and try to involve them. Also just involving antagonist PCs into your events on the side of your Antagonist NPCs goes a long way, even if it is often hard to let go of even more of that control over how things proceed, just since it allows them to feel involved, and leads to more (hopefully) fun conflict then between the PCs involved on both (or all) sides.

Also a sort of hub town or settlement for the more chaotic, neutral and evil types would likely go a long way.

As you might have guessed by the tone of our analysis: Evil is super important to us and a personal favorite of mine.

Both of you bring up good points. It's one part getting evil to a place where it is feared again and one part energizing new activity in a sustainable way. Player initiative plays a big role in either side of that coin, but it also flourishes when it is a cooperative effort between PC's and the Team.

Just one of the reasons that I'm picking back up on a particular plot of mine, but also why my inbox is always open to folks who want to do things their own speed or style. Times may not always work for me to handle it, but we've got others on the team that are just as enthusiastic as I am.

One reason I cautioned the team about anything IG as far as OOC meeting / chat areas go, when we were drafting this response, was because no matter how out of the way we might put the area, the medium is still through the character that you're logged into. There is still some psychology involved in equating the OOC words to the IC toon that's in front of you, and they to yours. This has even been quantifiable to a degree in past OOC issues between players that have been reported to the DM team, with clear bleed through to the IC actions of their characters.

For that reason alone I strongly cautioned the team that any OOC meeting "place" should be entirely separate from the IG world, though I do absolutely feel that such medium would be beneficial.

Downside I see to it is the following situation: I want to log into a major event while the server is full, or I need to log in during primetime to make contact with an elusive PC. My thought would be, "What losers are chatting in the server OOC room instead of on skype?! RAGE!"

Then I would have some ice cream and chill the fuck out. But still.

I like the idea of an OOC room, but I don't think it would work as we presently have things.

Unless we pull some magic and expand the server max count. I mean, there -has to- be a way to do it. Other servers do.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Refreshing reading.

I am terrified about the new DC and Level adjustment. Literally terrified.

Apart from that it looks like you DM lot have been through a lot and came up fresh and breezy. Good to know.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Why terrified?

Yeah! Don't be afraid to elaborate.

I will not elaborate, as I did it before and it ended up in massive flames. I just wish people would stop thinking that RP and all the fun starts on level 30. And the "grinding", as they call it, is just a big pain to endure before the real fun begins.

Even more sad that the above is when they find it is not true.

I will, however, propose that if you wish to apply such low price for leveling, do so - but do not bind the DCs to an account, do it to an actual character. Avoid the swarm of alts, epic nobody alts, that would fill the server if such is not applied. Might sound harsh, might sound I am over-exaggerating, but I am absolutely convinced such will happen.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

Uh, making alts to get DCs is ... a terrible idea. By that logic you could spend the same time getting the DCs on your character to use. If you are worried about alts ... so what? Does it really hurt the server for people to make multiple characters? I have a -ton- of characters, both because I like exploring builds and also because I have character to suit my moods. I have characters to one type of RP, for another type, and another type, I have a pair of UD characters, and characters when I just want to go grind pixelated mobs. Why should that be penalized? What if I want to use my DCs from one RP session for an item for another character? Does it really matter, in the end?

And we go back to the point that DCs are player rewards, not character rewards. They are an OOC token used for IC things. A bit meta, perhaps, but binding them to a character is just a far too strict idea to be good.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Near 40 DCs is hefty enough to encourage -some- leveling, certainly! But cheap enough that it's an alternative, or even just a good way to get past the "dead zones" (plz put Illithids back, team). I like it!

An OOC lounge could be on Amia B? I've never seen that server full before, Yoss. And Glim, it could require that people make an "OOC Avatar" to use in it such as people do to log into the DM client. That way it separates the psychology more visually, even if not totally. I do think having it in game would be beneficial. Things would be more fluid, some people don't have skype and it keeps everyone more closely tied to what we're actually here for- the server itself.

People could chat and see that some fun people logged on more easily. My biggest worry would be people logging into that Lounge and AFKing for ridiculous amounts of time!

On the issue of the XP change for DCs Ive both leveled a number of characters to max and used dcs for leveling, it has good uses especially for less combat oriented characters since its a nice way to be able to gain experience through non combat routes (and ones other than just grinding the job system) this pricing system helps a lot with bringing the value of the DCs closer in line with other methods which generally from my view is a good thing since it help encourage RP over Grinding, or at least can help moderate it. So a large supporter of that myself.

On a separate note nothing wrong with alts.

Thank you Gorgy.

_________________

Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower

Forum Moderation: If you need extra hands up there, don't be afraid to just grab them. I don't think this is something that needs to be spoonfed to us, although I understand there's a sensitive climate at hand, which may require some pampering. If you want moderator help, you probably also need it and then it's for the best of everyone to ensure that you also get it. I don't see why we need to be addressed in regard to this anymore if not for recruiting, like you did earlier and received a handful of self-nominations.

Requests: Requests should be intimidating and daunting in a way. I don't see the point of requesting power-filled items that are practically the same we have in-game, only with one or two tweaked stats; you don't always require a DM review to RP a powerful item. From what I've understood, a large portion of the requests fall into this category and you should decide how you allocate your resources for this front. Should they be treated quite leninetly without a whole lot of RP required, since essentially it is just a bit more powerful item without a whole lot of novelty value added to the server or the character itself, or should they be turned down for not having proper RP rationale.

The question should be what do the requests aim to accomplish for the players in the first place? I think you should expect at least something from the players and make it explicit to the playerbase with a sticky in the Requests section. It would help you focus on the good stuff and less on the fluff. This naturally doesn't mean you wouldn't have to explain clearly to the players as to why their requests are or are not being approved. You should work on the request with the player, if you feel it has enterprise. It can and should be a learning process and a moment of self-reflection for the player as well.

Development and Balancing: This is a challenging area and you've performed well in it. I do not understand the obsession for balance as it seems quite secondary on an RP-focused server, but of course the mechanical aspect of the game should be fulfilling and challenging to the players. The keywords here should be fun and immersive.

Banning: Are you going to revise bans that are not in accordance with the new or previous rules?

You most definitely must have these rules set in stone; the player must be aware of why he or she has been banned and must have known the responsibility of disrespecting these rules. You cannot be fully responsible for mistakes you don't realise making in the first place.

Conflict and Evil: Do you mean you will actually be empowering evil factions on Amia? If you play on a server where the majority of the characters, factions and cities are good-aligned, your evildoings can be expected to have a crushing result. This doesn't inherently mean the interaction wouldn't be enjoyable, but the lack of impact is surely disappointing. If the DMs chose to unleash an evil presence onto Amia to work in cahoots with the evil that has long been withdrawn into the shadows, it would create wonderful opportunities and fuel the conflicts to meet with the demands of the playerbase.

_________________
Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

You misunderstand.

I am concerned about players who have enough DCs that in case the idea is implemented, they could create two, even three level 30 alts in five minutes if they'd want to. Which connects to :



Way too far, Ninja. People complain the most about level from level 12 - 20. That's 8 DCs. 17 in case they want to go right to 25 to null the party xp range. Nobody sane will waste a dc, even so cheap, to level up on early levels if you can do that by one-run kobolds or orcs.

Which, in the end, completely destroy the middle-level zones/quests/everything.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)

That's still more than enough grinding, far as I'm concerned. DCs are not as plentiful as they once were. Once the hypothetical legion of the epic nobodies comes and is forgotten in time as most alts are, the stockpiles the older players have will be diminished. It takes longer to get 17 DCs than it does to level a character if you care enough to do it the hard way. I'd certainly rather people were RPing for DCs than killing their millionth beastman.

It's not pampering. It's simply taking what was discussed in the meeting and listing it out in a summary. Matter-of-factly. Letum took what we saw as feedback from players and immediately launched the initiative. No spoon-feeding, no pampering. Just fact.

Is freeing up some of our time to be about server role play business, while also giving players more authority a bad thing? I hope your answer to that would be no.



Everyone's perspective on what "fluff" and what is important won't always fit your definitions or mine.

What we describe is the fact that we are here to help. And when we respond, we need to give you a substantive response, especially if our feelings are a "No." The process should never intimidate someone into not requesting something they feel would creatively improve their experience.



Yeah, it's tough! But the Dev Team is awesome about taking all things into consideration when a change is possible.



Completely right. That's why we need to apply what we address internally to everyone externally. There are some things that are just non-negotiable to me at least. Outright cheating and harassing another player are just big no-no's, but this is my personal project that I intend to present to the community soon and we can have a more in-depth discussion as a community on it.



You nailed exactly what we mean on the head. We want to work with them to do just that, where and when we can.

Glad to read this. Thank you, DM team, for taking the time to go through the discussion. At least I feel excited of what is coming. And at least I've seen your responses change in request forum and elsewhere as well. Starts to feel like the old Amia I joined. And actually having discussed with some of you in tells, I've found some new found respect. So much work in events and effort given to entertain the players, while doing your other responsibilities in real life. It is not easy. I, as well as many players I've talked in party chats or tells agree, if DM's need help with anything we can help with, don't be afraid to ask. Even if it is OOC help we can give, still!

Such a relief to see that DC adjustment on lvling. Whereas, I agree with statements above, RP:ing doesn't need to start at lvl 30 and the journey at times can be such fun.. With some character builds, it helps a lot really... Easier to craft rp-builds focusing on other than mechanical benefits that you need to grind through. Maybe now on I can actually save some DC's for requests instead of lvling.. Though I will always remember trying to survive through Yossarin's massacre at Triumvir with ecl 6 wizard. Was so much fun and the amount of adrenaline running just for running away from zombies!

I do agree on the underlying issues topic, mostly. Though, I already do think I feel the change with more conversational atmosphere than before. I don't personally mind the permanent death aspect of serious mode, but let's not make the server too realistic than it needs to be in every aspect of life.

Of the OOC Lounge, could not the waiting room serve as OOC lounge? And if the DM's are seeing server full, then just let people in OOC lounge know to get IG or logg out for letting players interested to roleplay in. I don't think we need to make it too complicated. Courtesy to one another, respecting DM's wanting to see RP and players who want to RP. If it does not seem to be working, simply remove the OOC lounge.

About the Evil Role Play. Well, I would say any conflict rp should allow potential to be caught. It is my largest concern that you get targeted by characters you can't catch due to different timezones or there being no clue mechanically visible. Already experienced having been IC:ly targeted and I could not do anything IC:ly to solve it, as there was nothing to work on. No clues I could solve as none were left by other player. Was simply frustrating that you could not do anything to stop it, or that there was no penalties for the character doing it so publicly IC:ly. What I felt it was simply taking advantage of not being there 24/7.

_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Thanks Mag.

I do want everyone to take a close look at the Underlying Issues section. While we are working on those sorts of things with the way we treat and handle others, it's difficult to capture a "Team Mentality" on this items because each of us has our own perspective. Those personal feelings are moot when we need to approach it with one voice, as it were.

So helping us discuss those items is welcome like Mag did!

Good thoughts on each part, and yeah, time zone ix-matching where conflicts are concerned is tough! Do you think that a "buddy-system," for lack of a better term, where DM involvement with areas or settlements would be helpful? Maybe mixing a euro with a u.s. counterpart?

... That would make me so happy.

I know we disagree on this plenty, Guardian. But I understand your concern. For me, my enjoyment comes from quality interactions with players. And while I would love to find those in dungeons, grinding, or compared next to beefy folks that can survive a stray fireball-- at the end of the day, I would have used this to make non-combat concepts that I could really enjoy.

(Like a Master Pickpocket, who would otherwise not engage in combat of any kind-- but who still requires skill points to be at an effective capability!)

On the issue of grinding, I find that my issue with it comes from having done it so, so many times. If I hadn't had a bunch of alts I'd leveled throughout my time on Amia, I wouldn't have an issue with it I think. However, I have grinded out a bunch of alts, and a lot of the players here (I would even guess the majority) have done the same with at least a handful.

That said, I'm very excited for all these new quests I've seen mention of on the forums, and that sort of "grinding" is something I'm much happier to do.

_________________
Profiles: DakoDako & ElWacko

Characters: Currently trying my best to stick to Beridoc Brushgale

The idea with the DC swap is to simply open another avenue of advancement. Grinding (which I personally love), Area Exploration, New Quest Progressions. - We want to cater to everyone's tastes.

For argument's sake:

If someone wanted to spend 40 DC's, they could absolutely level up in 5 minutes. But now you have no gear to be effective, you have just enough gold to maybe half way decently outfit yourself.

You're still going to have to find a way to get to those places to get better gear or gather enough gold to get someone to get it for you.

It's just not as simple or process wrecking as you're making it sound or believe it to be. And I had to come around to the thought, because I was in the same camp of thinking as you are.

If DM's happen to catch such activities during their sift and hear that player is actually investigating on such. It would help immensely. I do not mean that investigating character needs to find our, if the character working against them had done proper work to hide their identity. But at least the possibility of working to solve it, or having possible NPC's in public places take note of it. As that thing happening was happening in a very public place. Kind of a buddy system would work, or the player of the sabotaging character letting DM's know in order to give other player a possibility of taking actions or to do something. However, I would rather see the DM's focus on working with IG events than such menial tasks.


As a person who has literally spend around 200 DC's to lvling and rebuilding... I really, really... do not mind this change.

_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Of course it's not a bad thing, I think it's wonderful and you introduced it to us in a polite fashion. I just thought that dragging it here as a point of discussion isn't really required anymore, because you don't really need our approval or opinion on this. But if it's here just for listing, sure thing, whatever!


I agree with the sentiment, but you should also be emboldened to represent your own criteria for requests. I understand that the definitions don't fit and that my diction was perhaps too pointed, but still you should be able to explain what kind of requests you want to see. It doesn't have to be anything factual, and I don't personally think it even can be. Your sentence, for example, would be fine to illustrate what the DM Team might expect from the player requests; something they feel would creatively improve their experience (the request being an explanation of why and how!).

Good work, guys! You've made a serious effort for this and it's good you're showing us the process.

_________________
Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

I'm pleased with the transparency here. When we're all on the same page, change we can agree with becomes that much easier.

Let's see if I can make a response without drowning everyone in text, shall we?




I'm not the best person to speak about the latter. I've yet to see an exchange on the forum that is truly worthy of major intervention, however I have a very liberal view on appropriate discourse. As long as you're not disparaging my lineage, it's just a form arguments take. I don't doubt that there are situations where 'cooldown time' and topic locks are necessary, though. And spreading the load can only improve what the DMs are capable of doing with their time.

As for requests, the issues I see with them are rather less complex than 'could we should we'. Usually, it's the confusion over universally approved requests that toasts my bagel. I would feel better if we had an official ruling of some sort on, for example, how many DMs you need to approve a request to get a DMIG, and how long the waiting period is between thread bumps. I'd also feel better if there was a standing rule to the effect of: If you're a DM and you see a request you haven't responded to yet, check it. Do you see a reason it shouldn't be approved? If so, state it. If not, approve it and move on.

That's a bit massive a load, mind you, but I find the premise sound. At the very least, perhaps the aforementioned rulings on DMs = approval might be made bearing in mind how many DMs volunteer to frequently check the request forums. If you have 3 DMs who make that their regular haunt, then it stands to reason that 3 or 4 is the golden number of yes votes needed to approve a request. Something standardized, at least.




Balance is indeed trickier than most people give the devs credit for. What they've already managed is astounding, and I can't really ask for more. With the poignant exception of half-elves, but that's not a kidney transplant so much as an Arbor Day gift.




The 'applying our focus to other initiatives' bit intrigues me.

The DC change is...nice, I suppose. But the cynic in me can't help but feel that the primary beneficiaries of this change will be those who have been around long enough to stockpile the necessary coins. That's just another facet of DM involvement, though, and I have no real right to speak on whether that needs to be improved, since I'm terrible at A) logging on and B) logging on at the right times.

Ahem. Excuse me, 'Area Exploration XP'? I haven't the foggiest idea how you might choose to implement that, but my response is fairly assured to be 'yes please'.




Trolls will be trolls. Banning them when they rear their heads is no real loss. Actual players...it would take a lot to make me approve a permanent ban in that case. Temporary bans can be useful, depending on the player. They wouldn't deter me, for example, because I rarely play, but someone with a lot of stock placed in the game will listen very quickly. Be wary: stone guidelines are still penetrable by rules lawyers who will give you trouble eventually, and on either side.




Ahhh, power to the players. I'm leery. On the one hand, to live in a world where an event is just one DMPM away is interesting, in a good way. However, there are going to be players who need the team to take some initiative for them. In my case, I'm simply too skittish in the vast majority of cases to stroll up to a DM and ask them to take time out of their schedule purely for my benefit.

What would be especially lovely is a case in which several bold players took initiative, called up available DMs, and then went out of their way to invite other players to join them. The power is with the players, but those without extensive depth to the accounting of their whims have someone holding the banner to whom they can turn.

Honestly, this talk of moderators on the forums and leadership in-game makes me think we need a core group that's somewhere between players and DMs. But I'm fantasizing. Maybe this already takes place and I simply am unaware of it.




Are we really discussing the issues of a full server when Amia A rarely goes past 45 players? It's hurtful, but the truth is we don't have the playerbase anymore to make that a concern. If it's truly that dire an issue, Amia B is well enough, and it could use more love from players, even if that love is OOC.

Its the implementation of this that oils my gears. Since the first meeting of DMs and players seems to have worked so well, why not tone down the scale and make it a regular occurrence? Say, weekly or monthly or bimonthly (twice over in each case to account for timezones), players who can attend and DMs who want to oversee gather in the lounge to discuss present issues in a relaxed setting, sort of like Amia's version of Last Week Tonight. We learn about what's what, we talk about it as players while DMs either add their input or simply record at their discretion, and forge bonds between ourselves in the process.

What I'd really like to see if that happens is the above player initiative make the lounge a recruiting ground of sorts. It can be difficult to muster up the will to go traipsing about the isle looking for RP if you aren't certain anything will happen. Those lucky enough to have constant bases of IC interaction are blessed, truly, but the rest of us have to get lucky. Unless, for example, the lounge becomes an area where a bannerman can put the word out that, oh, by the way, I plan to hang around Wiltun tomorrow around noonish, if you'd like to bring someone so that we can interact.

Some part of using an OOC medium for IC gains makes my skin crawl and I'm probably not alone, but 'cheating' for PC interaction is better than having none.

_________________
Contents subject to change without warning, reason, necessity, or logical imperative.

I agree with this! The rinse and repeat gets tedious very soon, but I squee at the thought of crawling through the reworked Underdark.

Overneath: In reference to the above, I think the DC Coin change is one way to tackle the issue. So what if it sort of favours the older players who already have their purses jingling with the DCs to make this happen? They are also the players most likely to be fed up with the farmfest. There can also be other approaches to the XP difficulties and the boredom of getting it, such as tweaks to XP yields, but the DC levelling is ingenious in that it offers an alternative to farming altogether.

And I actually read through your entire post without a struggle!

_________________
Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

To be fair, on the server being full point, I was being a little cheeky. But also hopeful that one day we shall see those glorious numbers once again. (If we can make it happen together, I will not complain about the server being full while people stand around OOC and talk about boobs.)

That takes getting your butt back in game too, Yossy-poo.

The DC leveling idea and the OOc lounge sounds scary....but otherwise thank you all for the hard work!

We're still in the discussion phase, but nearing the end. We've mostly got it figured out, working on some numbers now. Then we'll have to look at implementation.

I too am one for the "Evil" needing a win. I've played a lot of villainous characters over the years, ((Vistren aka Sasuke Duskryn back in the day)) Now... Yeah good guys got it easy, sorry good guys. I recently wanted to do some evilness that IC'ly held no malice from the character. The DM I spoke with was very helpful but informed me that the goodies would quickly remove any threat I made real. Honestly I gave up after that, mainly because any real change to the area was very unlikely and even if as a small event it would in my opinion be wiped under the rug so fast that there is no real point. Now I'm guessing here but sounds like that is how many evil pc's feel.

*Edit* And I for one am happy to see it being brought to light by the DM's and others. ((That was meant to be in here too xD))

When is the DC/Level adjustment going live?

_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

Just an idle thought about good/evil + conflict, I think it would help if Amia shifted to more of a "law of the jungle" type setting as Amia is too much of a "completed world" if you catch my drift what with all the asskicking factions and their alliances dominating the scene.

Changes look good though, good moves.

_________________

Yah same question here.

_________________
-Ryoko
I’ve been playing at a new fun sever!

https://theaccursedisland.enjin.com/mobile

No set day for a "go live" date, but we'll let you know when it's decided. There will, of course, need to be testing to make sure it works when we change the script.

Personally I'm excited for any change that makes leveling take less time.

_________________

Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

I really appreciate the time and effort invested in this initiative. I get the feeling the team was under severe fire and duress for a few months while these decisions were pondered and have to say the results are splendid. Good job team, especially for sticking with it.

_________________
bad man

Would it be posible / desired to have the Party Lounge on a dedicated Amia(OO)C, on port :5123 (thus separate from both A-Mia and B-Mia)?
This would avoid strange situation of being IG and on party with someone in OOC Lounge.

We could list the name of players through our Rest menu and Player Tool Messenger.

I'd support any motion to tie OOC Avatar to forum login, also, to keep our toons outside of that lounge.

Linlan

_________________
Nana Anvilmar - Slower Talking, Faster Running
Lester, Jester, Chandler, Alchemister !
Pauris Sennemen de Laelith - Merchant (currently in Suzail, Cormyr)
Metzlitemoctzin - Payit slave, now freed from Silent's sadostyle of plotting !

That would split the player base up a bit much, I'd think, and further tax the server host where it need not be. B-mia is already pretty ghostly when an event or racial gathering isn't occuring. I love B-mia, but it's true.

You can always keep areas on A and/or B for now and when/if server population rises again set it up on its own.

I really don't think the OOC Area would be all that big a deal. There should be one on both servers. The servers are only close to the cap when an event is going on, but during events it wouldn't be hard to let players know that the OOC area is going to be closed off to ensure that the most people can be part of what ever is going on.

I doubt people will linger there too much. It would be a good place to test out builds, have OOC duels between characters that would otherwise never meet/fight or bounce ideas off of each other, so I don't think it would make much sense to have OOC Avatars.

Even if people leave their characters there when they have to go AFK for long periods, and I doubt there will be many people doing that, it would still have a positive impact. I don't know about you guys, but I'm more excited about logging in when the number of people online is high. I don't think I'm an alien, so I'm pretty sure having a higher count on the player list, even if some of those people are in the OOC area, is going to encourage more people to hop in and play. I know it would encourage me.

I appreciate the attention the staff has given to these issues - I know it's been a difficult few months for you guys, and there's been plenty of bullshit to wade through. I hope that the assholes are a relatively small percentage of the playerbase.

That said, there were several points in there I know I brought up during the discussion that don't appear in the OP, namely the idea of "Storyteller DMs" and an RP advertiser that can optionally broadcast PC locations.

While it is true that player initiatives are important, we can only do so much without at least a little bit of DM input. I myself have two initiatives I have asked the team to address, and have gone almost 5 weeks now without any answers on either of them. Which is extremely discouraging. The team doesn't just need "new blood", it needs a complete transfusion. The DM list is currently extremely bloated, and the number of people who actually get up top I can count on one hand, and the ones that do do not do it with great frequency. I know real life is a bitch (it is for me atm), but I think it's the team's responsibility to the server to acknowledge if the current DMs cannot be available, and then take steps to promote new ones.

I know this can be difficult to find someone who fits all of the criteria, which is why I suggested having differing levels of power/responsibility. Also, trial-runs shouldn't be closed out. If a person doesn't end up being a good fit for the team, just be open about that. It shouldn't be such an exclusive position that people are only chosen at a rate of (maybe) 2 per year.

I myself know quite a lot of people who would be amazing storytellers and really help reinvigorate the server, but none of them have been tapped into at all. I obviously don't have the perspectives of the current team, but without naming names, it kind of seems odd that a lot of stalwart RPers of the community have been continually passed over for promotion.

I know the team is currently looking at these issues, and I appreciate that, it's just hard to keep frustration at bay when this has been a problem for over half a year. This is all exacerbated by the fact that I play a largely reactionary character - without anything to fight or plot against, there's not a whole lot for me (and I'd venture, most of the server) to do. Festivals, tavern nights, and things like that are fun, but they don't provide a character with an arc or a challenge. I play this game for character development and drama. When the world is static, as it is without the presence of DMs, those things become immensely more difficult to create, and we're more or less relegated to interpersonal drama. That can be fun in its own way, but it gets old quick when it's all we have.

_________________

We actually did touch on the roles of DM's after I took the player meeting and bullet-pointed it out. This is what I'm alluding to when I mention "serving various roles" in that section. Having that diversity is immensely important and we know it is, but if I took every idea we heard and tried to list it out word for word? My original post would have been forever long.

Don't think you weren't heard just because you didn't see it word for word!



I know that it's hard to see the bigger picture on something like this, especially when we are all naturally selfish and protective of the things we are working on. I'm the same way.

When looking at it from that perspective, it's extremely difficult to see that other are in the same boat as you or may even be hurting for attention more. There are other factions and groups have been left hanging even longer than you have and Wharftown has seen a lot more love than other groups for whatever reason. That's not to cheapen your concerns, but it's to put them into the perspective that the team has to view them in.

Dramatic analogies aside also, you're right. We do need a transfusion and we're discussing people to promote, actively.



Them's the brakes though, isn't it? Finding people that fit a certain set of criteria that can even be trusted with the chance. It's not easy.



My PM box is always open for suggestions/comments/those people send me notification of their interest. If they are as confident in themselves as you are in them, think we'd like to hear form them so we can discuss their merits.

I was using those things as examples to illustrate a wider need for DM attention - it wasn't meant to complain about my own specific requests, only highlight that player initiative isn't necessarily the problem. The point I was trying to address is that it seems that everyone is in exactly the same boat as me, or even moreso if I'm one of the ones getting "more attention" (which seemed pretty tangential to my point, but I digress).

_________________

Your point was clear. Trust me!

I don't want anyone to be in the boat at all.

I am personally wondering what more people think of the 'underlying issues' section. No one has responded to that part yet! It's definitely part of what drove so many DMs to the brink, has people in corners and avoiding one another and more. Someone go for it! I sent Gorgometh a PM asking for more details and he said it should be a public discussion... To which he is probably right! So I further invite you all to comment. Maybe if it gets more attention, I'll let out some more of my controversial opinions... If you're all lucky.

The Dudeist holiday was March 6th, but I'm still taking it easy for all you sinners.

In all seriousness, folks trying to be positive, even when an issue crops up, can breed positivity. A lot of the underlying issues feel like they deal with that.