Q&A is fine! I just feel we might be moving in to more debatable posts, and in to tangents which makes it harder to pick out a few posts answering the OP. Just a friendly reminder about what the OP is looking for.
Take it easy there PS. Clarification is important. I can't decide if this would be something I'm interested in until I know details. Gorgometh brought up a really great point/observation. If this was to moderate faction forums it'd be a no for me since I agree the faction should pick it's own moderators. And I don't want a player getting all moderator in my PC Stories either.
I'd be interested in what forums Letum is thinking of for player moderator help.
Good clarification on that question, Maze.
And PS, just so you know, OP posted this on behalf of the team. I'm one of the team. As Maze pointed out, clarifying questions are important for people to understand what they are being nominated/ volunteering for.
As a member of the Team, represented by that OP, I want people to understand what this entails and what it does not. I'm sure Letum would agree.
Q&A is fine! I just feel we might be moving in to more debatable posts, and in to tangents which makes it harder to pick out a few posts answering the OP. Just a friendly reminder about what the OP is looking for.
Take it easy there PS. Clarification is important. I can't decide if this would be something I'm interested in until I know details. Gorgometh brought up a really great point/observation. If this was to moderate faction forums it'd be a no for me since I agree the faction should pick it's own moderators. And I don't want a player getting all moderator in my PC Stories either.
I'd be interested in what forums Letum is thinking of for player moderator help.
Good clarification on that question, Maze.
And PS, just so you know, OP posted this on behalf of the team. I'm one of the team. As Maze pointed out, clarifying questions are important for people to understand what they are being nominated/ volunteering for.
As a member of the Team, represented by that OP, I want people to understand what this entails and what it does not. I'm sure Letum would agree.
Understandable: However it seems that some of these were actually answered already and it seems strange to me that such has been brought up again.
LetumLux wrote:
Forum Moderation includes no responsibility over creative content.
^This and...
LetumLux wrote:
They will NOT be doing things such as changing any content of posts through the edit feature without the expressed consent of the original poster, for any reason.
^This seems to lay out some pretty good frame work for answering those concerns and questioned expressed.
LetumLux wrote:
I believe Silke has something he wants to add about this, although you'll have to wait until he's awake!
^ I would like to hear more of this- there may already be more answers if Silke can get a chance to post when he's around.
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
Frankly I think it's really good for the community to be able to moderate themselves. I wouldn't mind doing this though I don't read the forums at the hours at which most of the heated discussions happen.
Mainly as a moderator I would do the following:
Move topics to the correct forum
Lock discussions that are getting exceptionally heated for a couple of hours in order to allow for cool down time
Gently request certain discussions stay on topic when the flaming begins, locking if necessary
Make posts from the community that I feel are important to solidarity sticky
That's really it. Since moderators don't have editorial powers the rest would fall to the DM team.
Also, PassionateShadow. I know you mean well but they're just raising concerns they have on this matter. I think reassuring them of the powers a moderator would actually have would help instead of trying to tell people their concerns are off topic.
Over all I like this idea, it allows the DM team to do more DMing and less nannying on the forums. I would like for the drama on the forums to clear up so I can see more of you in game, it seems like so much of your time is spent on needless drama.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Having done extensive forum moderating myself years before what I will add now might seem harsh but it is tough love from your resident Swede.
Forum moderators will be held to a higher standard of posting. This means that they are under our supervision and if found unfit to carry on, they are out. Likewise we will take into account past behaviour both on the forums and in-game.
Letum already touched the subject regarding mannerism but I want to reiterate that the largest part of moderation on a forum is being able to be friendly and courteous at all times. The ability to write a post to a user explaining the error in their ways for the umpteenth time without sounding snarky is hard
If you are the sort of poster who likes order and things to be neat. If you can deal with reminding users to put location on their topics in the PC notice board every day of the week and follow up so that you see that it is done and still log on to play with a smile. Then moderating might be a thing for you
_________________
Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
Understandable: However it seems that some of these were actually answered already and it seems strange to me that such has been brought up again.
Its the first time its being done, people want to know what is really being set in place as if this is done poorly it will cause a lot more harm then good. as a example
LetumLux wrote:
Moderators would also be charged with the responsibility of giving short-term, temporary forum bans if necessary to give the person time to cool down, such as if they are too intoxicated or antagonistic to maintain decorum, and then lifting the bans when they should be. Thus, also creating records on such to keep information clear.[/list]
That's all openly vague for anyone other then current DMs who know when to ban and unban someone, do the DMs hidden on their forums have guide lines about forums bans/unbans for the new mods to kind of look over for guidance as without such it will look more like abusing power at their own personal whim if they are quick to act... or outright failing to do anything to avoid looking heavy handed and abusing power.
Now I apologize in advance to MisterLich but I will be using his thread called Balance Shifters? as my example for a question to the DMs.
New forum mods see the thread (It was started in Improving Amia I believe) now lets assume no one had posted on it yet , from any on looker that thread looks like it was started after a lot of bad PvP against said class. what course of action would you suggest the mod take, as I believe examples of real threads that have been locked or temp forum bans given, will help teach how to the job correctly.
Move it from Imp Amia forums to General. Place a reminder to keep it civil. Outright lock it as its will end in a heated flame war and save us all the trouble.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
IA has a very good topic about what the forum is about and how posts should be. I watched the thread in question and moved it to GD when I felt it had deviated. The discussion itself at the time did not need a lock.
_________________
Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
One of the worst qualities of a forum moderator to me is one who takes the job too seriously and overthinks it.
That's an important one for anyone who does end up being a moderator. If you log in looking for things that are wrong with the forum, then you're just going to cause them eventually if you get to over eager.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
IA has a very good topic about what the forum is about and how posts should be. I watched the thread in question and moved it to GD when I felt it had deviated. The discussion itself at the time did not need a lock.
I understand IA does, but the forum mods will be dealing with much more then that.
But as per my other question, do the DMs have guide lines and such for when a mod should be issuing bans/how long as well as when a thread needs a lock, because its not something the current player base has been given much insight to as per when DMs do it as per the rule about airing dirty laundry, do the DMs issue you out many short term forum bans?
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
What about hidden sub forums and faction groups? Will moderators be touching those?
I specifically said Players (OOC) and Players (IC). Faction of Amia is its own catagory, same as Towns and Places.
Moderators will have no additional reading or replying privileges added except for their own Moderator subforum, where they would be moving things like exploits and spam.
Moderators would also be charged with the responsibility of giving short-term, temporary forum bans if necessary to give the person time to cool down, such as if they are too intoxicated or antagonistic to maintain decorum, and then lifting the bans when they should be. Thus, also creating records on such to keep information clear.[/list]
That's all openly vague for anyone other then current DMs who know when to ban and unban someone, do the DMs hidden on their forums have guide lines about forums bans/unbans for the new mods to kind of look over for guidance as without such it will look more like abusing power at their own personal whim if they are quick to act... or outright failing to do anything to avoid looking heavy handed and abusing power.
It doesn't go into explicit detail because the first post is the initial call for Moderators, and more details will be made available as we go. However, this should not appear as vague as you perceive it to be due to the fact that we have forum rules, and that is what any forum banning would be based upon - not personal feeling, but a specific criteria.
Because they disagree with someone? No.
Because they are posting obscene pornographic images, or useful hateful speech toward other members of the community? After warnings to change their behaviour, yes.
Because it is someone who has already been banned evading their ban or posting trollish things? Yes.
Moderators would also be charged with the responsibility of giving short-term, temporary forum bans if necessary to give the person time to cool down, such as if they are too intoxicated or antagonistic to maintain decorum, and then lifting the bans when they should be. Thus, also creating records on such to keep information clear.[/list]
That's all openly vague for anyone other then current DMs who know when to ban and unban someone, do the DMs hidden on their forums have guide lines about forums bans/unbans for the new mods to kind of look over for guidance as without such it will look more like abusing power at their own personal whim if they are quick to act... or outright failing to do anything to avoid looking heavy handed and abusing power.
It doesn't go into explicit detail because the first post is the initial call for Moderators, and more details will be made available as we go. However, this should not appear as vague as you perceive it to be due to the fact that we have forum rules, and that is what any forum banning would be based upon - not personal feeling, but a specific criteria.
Yes I understand its a call out for people, but more people might be willing to give being a forum mod a try knowing that guidelines and helpful tips/examples are given, otherwise people might be afraid it will be a lot like this I know we have forum rules and its easy to ban and lock the black and white ones, but its the grey ones that will be the problem (hence the question about guidance for them)
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
Moderators would be issuing bans in clear cases like the ones I mentioned. As time goes on, they might expand into making more judgement calls like a DM, but that will be contingent upon how the Moderators we accept handle it.
Aside of ban-evasion whack-a-mole, banning will not be a priority or focus of Moderators, regardless. Using their forum privileges to facilitate an orderly, organized forum will be.
That's how existing faction subforum moderators work already.
Then we have no problems. Why do we need this?
Actually, Faction Mods have no privileges to move/split/merge or edit other people's posts. IIRC they also cannot lock any threads other than their own.
I don't have time right now as I should have left for work ten minutes ago, but when I get back I'll make a chart so there is no more confusion as to where the Forum Moderators would be operating on the forum, and what their expected activities would be in each of those.
That's how existing faction subforum moderators work already.
Then we have no problems. Why do we need this?
Actually, Faction Mods have no privileges to move/split/merge or edit other people's posts. IIRC they also cannot lock any threads other than their own.
I was able to do all of the above when I was a Faction Forum Moderator. I did some of them, too. My OCD forced me to add [IC] and [OOC] tags in front of thread titles when silly people couldn't keep to the obvious forum organization specifications.
So those are indeed tasks of which some players are already fully capable. And I haven't seen it abused.
_________________
Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Example of one of the menial chores a Moderator would perform.
Other examples include:
Moving something in General Discussion that belongs in Off Topic, to Off Topic.
Moving something that belongs in General Discussion out of Improving Amia, to General Discussion.
Splitting off topic discussion out of an Improving Amia topic, into its own General Discussion topic.
Moving obvious trolling posts to the Moderator subforum.
Moving publicly posted exploits to the Moderator subforum, where they will probably be grabbed by the Devs.
Splitting out OOC posts from IC story threads at the request of the original poster.
Reminding posters of subforum rules, such as the need to post a location in the PC Notice Board and Auction forums.
Reminding people of forum rules and attempting to deflate tensions if a topic is becoming deconstructive, rather than constructive, including locking for intermission cool-down times if necessary. Helping to create and precipitate a civil, mature atmosphere for which disagreements and debates can take place.
Locking topics that are finished, due to the original purpose being served/answered, at the request of the person who started the topic thread, or the topic has devolved into ad hominum bickering.
Moderators will still be held to the rules of subforums. For example, the Requests forum - they wouldn't be permitted to post replies in other people's requests because they are Moderators. But they would, however, be able to move a request for a rebuild from Leto or Requests, to the correct Rebuild subforum.
The first action should always be to facilitate communication and organization, not censor and silence. Locking should be a means to give people time to read and respond (intermission) if emotions are becoming too excited, not as a mean to shut the conversation down. If conflicts are arising, a Moderator is expected to moderate, to mediate, to get the topic back on track, and away from personal attacks or becoming lost in peripheral minutiae. A Moderator may do so by taking it upon themselves to create a new topic thread for where the conversation has led to, splitting it off into its own discussion so that the original topic of the parent thread can remain on focus, and link between the topics, if the deviation becomes so extreme the original intent is being lost.
Moderators operating in subforums that already have specific DM moderation (Silkelock for the Build subforum, Glim for Improving Amia) will work with those DMs, naturally, but given their role, it is highly unlikely that there should be any stepping on of toes.
That's a sample of the more in depth explanation. Are there more concerns that I can try to address, or confusions I can try to clarify?
Joined: 14 Dec 2009 Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
LetumLux wrote:
As time goes on, they might expand into making more judgement calls like a DM, but that will be contingent upon how the Moderators we accept handle it.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Would you expand please?
A clear case where someone would be banned and a Moderator would do so: when someone is evading a ban already in place.
A judgement call to be explored in the future would be if someone is consistently breaking forum/server rules in minor but disruptive or antagonistic ways. A Moderator would let DMs know, and the DMs would deal with it. In the future, a Moderator might have the discretionary power to issue a temporary ban to such a person on the spot - and, as they would be doing with all such things, making clear record of who, why, and for how long.
A clear case where someone would be banned and a Moderator would do so: when someone is evading a ban already in place.
A judgement call to be explored in the future would be if someone is consistently breaking forum/server rules in minor but disruptive or antagonistic ways. A Moderator would let DMs know, and the DMs would deal with it. In the future, a Moderator might have the discretionary power to issue a temporary ban to such a person on the spot - and, as they would be doing with all such things, making clear record of who, why, and for how long.
Also the occasional spam bot posts which are simple to see
_________________
Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
Not sure forum organization and managing is my thing. But if there's ever an open spot for a mediator or some such medium for solving interpersonal and behavioral issues, you have a psych major right here.
Not sure forum organization and managing is my thing. But if there's ever an open spot for a mediator or some such medium for solving interpersonal and behavioral issues, you have a psych major right here.
What recreational pharmaceuticals should I take to enhance my Amia experience?
Not sure forum organization and managing is my thing. But if there's ever an open spot for a mediator or some such medium for solving interpersonal and behavioral issues, you have a psych major right here.
What recreational pharmaceuticals should I take to enhance my Amia experience?
Not sure forum organization and managing is my thing. But if there's ever an open spot for a mediator or some such medium for solving interpersonal and behavioral issues, you have a psych major right here.
What recreational pharmaceuticals should I take to enhance my Amia experience?
... move things where they need to be ... lock things if requested by the original poster, or if topic is concluded ... tag subject lines with helpful things like {Resolved} or ▒DMIG▒ ... help guide discussions back onto topic if they start to go crazy
This is the cliff notes summary that is posted in the Mods forum, as well:
Presently, Forum Moderators do not have permissions to issue any forum bans. They cannot make posts in Request threads that are not theirs. They still adhere to all forum rules in that, and every other regard.
Moderators that are also Developers are still Developers. They simply have Moderator powers as well, and may usher things away to the Dev forums as needed to keep work flowing and the like.
If you have any remaining questions about this not already answered somewhere in this thread, feel free to ask either in this thread, PM, or Skype, and I'll answer you when I can! At present, I'm heading off for Zzz, but I can get back to those once I reanimate.
This is preposterous! Where is my governance of the forums? My reign of terror must begin!
Nah seriously, cool to see these folk pioneering the venture, a wide diversity from what I can tell for such a small sample size. I expect great moderation and minimal censorship!
Spam bots are fortunately. I will point out, however, that without moderation ability for the IC forums I cannot remove the spambot's posts from the IC forum threads.
Jes has been added to the Forum Moderators. Now I have my personal secretary for topics with lists.
I'm going to be expanding Forum Moderator privileges to include the Players (IC) category at the end of the week. If there are any lingering concerns about this, that have not already been answered earlier in this thread, please post them so I can address them!
Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Guys, I'm taking a step away from the forum moderator position from the time being what with life taking up a lot more of my focus lately and me being immensely happy with where it's going. Hopefully in a month or two I'll nude able to focus on it again but until then I don't want to clutter up the roster with my inactivity.
That said, you guys have mostly been pretty good to one another since I took the seat and I didn't need to do much moderating.
Keep on being awesome to one another
Edit: I'm not even fixing that, that's hilarious.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
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Best luck to all!
