So I know that when it seems you get something declined it's the end of the world but I'd like to draw every one's attention to what has actually been approved and I would like to offer the DM's some form of accolades and thanks for the amount of requests that DO get approved!



Let me just make a list to highlight what I mean- I will list and number my pending approvals, my accepted and then my denied requests. I have come to notice a trend in what sort of requests I seem to have trouble with.

❤ Will be used for character requests and X will be used for requests that got approved that I am UN happy with And let's use a ✔ to see how many I'm happy with and let's com pair the ✔'s with the X's at the end.

Pending
1. Rp Approval- Matthew of Valendale
2. PC Quest- Awakening Bloodline- Matthew Of Valendale
3. Tempo of Havenlyn Special DC Widget Request

Approved
1. PC Quest- Owl GS Matthew of Valendale ✔
2. PC QUEST to [Celestia]-Request ✔
3. Tempo of Havenlyn- Shadow Auras Part 1 of 2 ✔
4. Custom item request- Dragon Saddle. ✔
5. SHIP- (REDACTED TEXT) ✔
6. Kite Shadow Jump request ✔
7. Job log reset Matthew Of Valendale ✔
8. Lung Dragon :Chiang Lung Dragon Disciple ❤ X
9. Kite-Generric summon- Worg ✔
10. Drow Slave Request- Xi'lyn ❤ ✔
11. Job log reset Tempo of Havenlyn ✔
12. Bottled Compannion-Obligatory Orphan Tempo of havenlyn ✔
13. Tempo of Havenlyn Shadow Jump ✔
14. Alistair Request- Shadow elf race ❤ X

Denied
1. Tempo- Anything with Gender
( Reasons given were not Lore supported)❤ X
2. Tempo-Original Backstory ❤ ✔
(Understandable for the No's)
3. Prismatic Dragon Disciple ❤ X
( Reasons given were not Lore supported)
4. Drow Slave Request
(Understandable for the No's)❤ ✔
5. Raziel Of Valenwood Dc Request Wings ( Reasons given were not Lore supported)❤ X
6. Rex Wulfwood Bottled Compannion
(I do not agree with the ruling on this)???



So Let Tally everything up shall we!?



Wow~ 19 is a lot! And that's how many I'm happy with and have gotten approvals!
Now Comparatively this is- 19/28 total
Put that next to 5 Denials you realize that there's a whole lot more good stuff going on!

For me at least it seems things are going pretty darned good over all and i thank the DM team for having to put up with 18 from me as just being one player. I know there's a lot of work involve in just going through requests and I appreciate it greatly- Thanks guys!


So does any one else wanna talk about comparative numbers?


I belive we as human takes denial a lot harder then we do acceptance.

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Hahaha wow you do have a ton of requests... It's impressive and possibly overwhelming, but encouraging either way! Props to the team for that! Yes so many for approved! I will not go through and count mine (it has been way too many years with way too many behind the scenes and with feelings attached), but I will say only one (I think?) got denied and tooooooons got approved. Like tons. I am very grateful for those! They were all sorts of things and had very much DM support and kindness!

The one denied was a special character idea, similarly treated as some of yours. That being in terms of lack of lore support for refusal and lack of proper consideration for feelings. I will also add I got a "concession offer" similar to those I see handed out to others, which was definitely along the lines of twisting a request to something other than intended and was sad and disappointing- although not infuriating. Just confusing really. Why would I want an entirely different concept?! So add that to the fact sheet of whether denials and special characters seem to be correlated. (I think I know the answer to that one, though!)

Some other interesting things to correlate would be DM input on the process and whether it's effective on that side, seen as a burden or what makes them happy as end results. To make changes until after some breaks is great, but give us some feelings, guys! Amarice is the only one who did and it was only to express confusion and offer help, not really feedback on how anyone felt the forum was properly streamlined or not.

Agreed! Major props to the dm's for all their hard work and willingness to deal with us~

Ah I believe a suggestion I brought up to help build communication is interestingly being implemented!
I'm very pleased iwth how it's being used so far though I think not many have actually noticed it's exsistance just yet.




You can go to Spark of Life (The Concept Forum) now and offer your thoughts and hash out ideas before hand with other players and dms in a much more open way because- well it's a design forums and everything can be discussed.


Wich I think is really really really AWESOME!

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That's what I noticed at the meeting as well.

A few people were still quite upset over one request being denied more then a year ago while a lot more requests since that time were approved. A lot of their points could directly be traced to that one request and it being denied.

That doesn't mean the request process is even nearly flawless and I am trying to take some points made to heart in regards to future requests. But the good should be taken with the bad I feel and that hopefully lessens the bad feelings stemming from a denied request as I hope it did for PS.

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

Baaaaaaaaaack in the days...
I originally got Ais' slow breath weapon request denied.
And I fell in a depression.
For one week.
Then I got better.

And a pair of months later I requested it again.
And I ate an orange.
And it was 'kay.

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Womans in your town

Taking a step back and reevaluating everything seems to help. I know that negative can be take very hard but it's important to take a look at everything you've achieved/ worked for that is positive. By focusing on the 'bad' we seem to forget the good, so I encourage others to take a step back and look at all the awesome they already have~ Some times taking a few moments to appreciate what's there or taking a chance to look back from where you've come can result in some good reflection that in my cases ( Most often with looking at old art work and seeing how much I've developed since then) It brings out a good feeling over all of accomplishments.


You know what Rhymes with Orange? Door hinge.

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This seems to trivialize someone's feelings, Hudson, and I would encourage the sentiment if anyone is upset over anything for more than a year that it seems much more complicated than being told, "No." What was highlighted in PS's post, along with the comparison of negative vs. positive, was an analysis of what was approved and what was denied. That is far more worth looking at than trying to passively assuage feelings on either side of a situation. It contains data, correlations and firm ideas of where the issues that last years may arise. It is not an argument to reverse decisions or to complain, but a way to understand it in a better manner than "Hopefully the bad feelings go away by looking at all the approved requests!" That, Hudson, is not really an answer at all! In the end, I think that approach will only make these feelings fester and last longer. I am so grateful for your investment and admire your desire to fix it, but that approach has already seemed to fail. Again, I encourage the opposite. Get into the nasty shitty feelings so that they are finally aired out and gone (for now) and voice your opinion on the matter!

No it doesn't, I don't care how truncated your accent is it just doesn't.

Other than that Estara seems to be making a lot of sense.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

What I want to know is how did you make those little Checks and Cross icons appear in your text?

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MuseReader: Aiseth Nosdivan- Master Enchantress

Copy-paste?

Relevant to the thread, it isn't always the number or type of request that gets denied that makes some players upset post-request. Some people make very, very few requests over the years or requests that build upon previous requests that don't really get re-vetted for anything other than the mechanical element. What leaves some people bitter are the reasons(or lack thereof) that a particular request was denied. Such is my case. It doesn't mean I say "screw it, the system is completely broken" or even that I feel I couldn't get a request passed for something completely unrelated. It's just a bad taste left in the mouth from being held by the nuts when it comes to what a player is or isn't in control of. I can and have had requests denied or at first rejected that really affected me not one way or another because at least I could see the reasoning behind them. But when the reasoning comes across as disingenuous, inconsistent, or lazy, it can stick in player's side for ages. Not necessarily because they didn't get their request, but that they expected more from their well-meaning stewards.

That's most of the bitterness and reservation I've both experienced and observed as a player regarding requests. It's rarely "Oh, DM's are just hardasses who want everything their way." It's the disconnect that comes from good intentions being badly applied and then interpreted as either stubbornness or laziness by the requester. "We're doing this for your own/the server's good," even when you or the server explain firsthand how it may not be.

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+1 estara

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

You misunderstand me I think Estara. My point is that you really only are hurting yourself when you are angry and upset. It changes nothing for the better.

I am not trying to trivialize anyone's feelings but I do feel that remaining upset for a year or longer is a long time in which you are essentially only hurting yourself with negative feelings. That's why I'd like to see people moving on to new ideas/ projects instead and hopefully seeing those being approved.

That was my point.

_________________
Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

I don't think I misunderstood you, Hudson. I think you just repeated exactly what could seem trivializing. "Get over it." "Move on." "Leave if you want to." "You're only hurting yourself." You're saying it a lot nicer, but you're still saying it. I understand that The Team doesn't want to be responsible, and, that in fact many of the current Team is not responsible for a lot of mismanaged feelings and situations. It's a pretty suck situation for everyone, though. I don't think people want to be upset. I don't think the Team wants (or wanted) to make them that way.

However, let's consider that "solution" - which I will now call the Get Over It Model. Let's say someone goes through all the effort to get something, whether it be a requests forum idea or not, and it gets denied. The Get Over It Model actually turns this one grudge into about 50 grudges in a matter of seconds, whether or not the person's request was denied in a courteous or rude manner. They just got refused, demeaned and mistreated (some of them) and then they are essentially forced to risk repeating the process because you say they should. It's like a minor form of PTSD. Or, as in my case, this person is offered something so radically different as a sort of peace offering. "Here, doggy, you can't have that... but you can have this!" Distraction technique.

I understand psychology better than an average Joe, I think, so I purposefully stayed away from any situation that could reignite my fury (I say that with a tinge of humor, so please don't take it as anything but that) at certain (silly) people and certain (stupid) processes in place. People can be as masochistic and destructive as the system they are bred in, especially in small family systems such as this online community. However, supporting that drives wedges between everyone. I can't encourage the Team to monitor words like yours enough, even in as passive a form as you're giving here, Hudson. It makes the players sad. And me, specifically, too! It shadows what I consider the most insidious of the problems, that player/DM divide that has remained throughout all these topics and yet still eluding us as a solid entity. Feel free to keep disagreeing, though!

Hopefully you saw Estara, in one of the recent, past threads, that I was one of the ones saying "no, the team shouldn't be saying 'leave if you want'" as you put it. I'm right there with you on that one. So I hope you'll see that I'm not even close to expressing sentiments like that.

And I don't at all equate the sentiment that Hudson is trying to communicate here, to be anything related to that in the slightest either, really. I fully approve of the message that Hudson was trying to get across and in fact it's something that I just said to the DM team a few days ago too! Players don't always like our plotlines or events, often poo-poo them on the forums or in party chat. But the team can't let that get them down. They have to move past it. We should be mindful of taking what constructive criticism we can from what the players express, where we might be able to tweak our event direction or methodology to be more in line with what the players want to see from us. But not everyone's going to like every event and sometimes they'll outright flop, with players not wanting any part of them at all. It happens, we get flak for it, but we can't let it bog us down or stop us from trying again. Getting angry or resentful about it is a waste of energy. It's not any less valid of a response, but it's a response that we should work to move past, so that we can get back to what we enjoy which is running events.

And so to expand on what Husdon was communicating, I would say the same is true to be said for players who make a request that the DM team just doesn't feel. DMs don't always like the character concepts or spell ideas or etc, and will give them a no-vote on the forums. But the player can't let that get them down. They have to move past it. They should be mindful of taking what constructive criticism they can from what the DMs express, where the player might be able to tweak their concept or research RP to be more in line with what the DMs want to see from them. But not everyone's going to like every request and sometimes they'll outright flop, with DMs not wanting any part of them at all. It happens and it can feel like you're getting flak as a player rather than just the request, but you can't let it bog you down or stop you from trying again. Getting angry or resentful about it is a waste of energy. It's not any less valid of a response, but it's a response that you should work to move past, so that you can get back to what you enjoy which is RPing.

We're all in the same boat here.

Estara, you're hurting my brain. It appears you are throwing a blanket over the situation regarding requests and going 'See? All of these are like another!' You see, I didn't get what you got out of what Hudson said. He was being practical. I mean, seriously, if you get a request denied for clear, concise, and logical reasons ... at some point you need to get over it. Now, if there was some obvious hand-waving and general shoving the request aside, fir sure that should breed a certain amount of resentment. Especially if it happens more than once. However you cannot simply say 'Stop telling us to get over it' when that's not what was being said. Well, you can say that but that doesn't make it any less incorrect.

Husdon was being quite reasonable in what he said, and frankly the general response seems to be 'Nuh! You need to tell us everything is peaches and flowers and approve requests!'. I'm being a bit overdramatic, but that's the impression I am getting from the rebuttals of what Hudson said. Regardless it's still really ... off-putting. Seriously, requests are going to get denied sometimes. Players need to get over it unless they were being treated unfairly. And when, exactly, was he giving the sentiment of 'Love it or leave it'? That's really reaching, to be honest.

Don't forget that the DM Team also takes into account player attitudes, past conflicts, general playstyle (read: exploiting or being unfair to others), and other aspects of the player/character when approving and denying requests. That can seem a bit unfair to some people, but it's reasonable. Why would you let someone known to just cause OOC strife access to something mechanically powerful? Why would you reward someone that provides no RP justification for something? I really don't envy the DMs.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I want to post this in all topics of this nature. Seriously folks.

First off, I appreciate everything you said in that other thread, Glim, although I didn't see the effects of it. From what I saw, your comment was taken and discarded. Which also made me sad. I saw no acknowledgment of it from other DMs, or the DM Team as a whole, nor did I see a public acknowledgment to those that commentary may have been directed at! It could have all been private, though..!

Secondly, I appreciate the feedback! I'm not trying to throw a blanket over everything, but actually do the opposite. Each of these things is both very similar and very different, if that makes sense. My own experience is not the same as another's, but it may have developed from the same problem's root. Hudson's words may not be the same as Dusty's, but they DO come from a similar root. I'm trying to stay in the background, mostly, and highlight an undercurrent of something that's mutually touched on and avoided. (Except right now I'm not in the background... but that wasn't purposeful!) It's something I've seen for a long time and have been a culprit of on both sides.

Lastly, I feel it's important to say that I was in no way trying to attack Hudson! I actually like him a lot. I think he knows that! I hope..! I was, rather, trying to point out where his words may be coming from. They can be very positive, uplifting, genuine... and so might yours, Glim, to the DM Team... but when you couple these "Move On" words with the words of "Leave If You Want To" - EVEN IF they aren't intended to be the same message - think about what that says, underneath the surface. They're both directed at the same problem, but they are very conflicting things. What does that mean, when we dig a little deeper?

One side is saying "Leave." The other one is saying, "No! I care about you. Stay and move on, because we actually love you!" But is either really approaching the deeper issue? It's like two parents who can't agree. It's like two parents who want to shove cookies down your throat because they love and hate you an equal amount. It is evident that there is something underneath the surface, some attitude prevalent in a community that is bubbling up into these eruptions of emotions from years long past and current explosions of a radical problem. At least, I see it.

Or maybe I'm the only terrorist here, and I'll shut up!

Work in progress.


Everyone's experiences are absolutely different, sometimes in subtle or miniscule ways, sometimes in more profound ways. No one's arguing against that fact. I disagree however that Hudson's (or mine which are in line with Hudson's) words are coming from a similar root as the "leave if you want to" phrase however. To me, it is the expression of a general philosophy, one which can be applied to many different situations in many different settings. I try to do the same at work, for example, and find that it serves me extremely well both in regards to my colleagues and to guests.

And just because I advocate such a philosophy, doesn't mean that I (or we) don't recognize the desire to dig deeper. We're not saying, "calm down and go back to your corner." I (and again I would think we) am/are saying that maintaining those negative feelings is not necessary to the process of examining what produced them. It is just as possible to remove yourself from those feelings, look back on them as the past, and still be able to see where they stemmed from. I don't know if you read my section of post about my starting experience in Guldorand back when I was a new player, but I'd like to think that's a good example of exactly how someone can move past the hurt and anger of something being denied or shoved to the side, and look back to see how it might be prevented in the future.

But so long as those negative feelings are at the forefront, real progress will be difficult at best. No one likes dealing with anger, or resentment, or ill-will when they can avoid it, especially in what is supposed to be a setting for relaxation and enjoyment. That's human nature. All of us, players and DMs, need to move past those feelings and "lay down arms" before any of us will get any real work done towards fixing what caused those feelings in the first place. Otherwise we'll just remain trapped in the same vicious circle.

Again, Estara, you seem to be reaching. Saying 'move on to the next thing' is not the same as saying 'leave the server if you don't like it'. They only mean the same then when an individual takes them to mean the same thing. I surely did not think Hudson was trying to say 'get out' in any way, shape, or form. Instead his words were essentially what Glim said, in that we need to strive to move pat the bad and look to the future.

No one can control how someone is going to take what you said. The Team can't pussyfoot around worrying about everyone's feelings. Frankly, doing so will make me upset and then shouldn't they stop to make myself (and likely others) feel better? It's an abhorrent idea in a world where everyone is now a special snowflake. Sorry, it just reeks of that and I mentally shudder.

I really do not see where you are trying to take this. It just appears that you (perhaps some others, too) are reading far too deep into what Hudson said based upon a couple of things someone else said. To correlate the two is, still, a huge reach in my mind.

edit: Glim, stahp. Are we the same person? Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Well, I don't think you said the same thing as Glim, Naivatkal... To use your own words, I think that may be reaching! Heheh. Anyways, I do not disagree with you on the 'reaching' part. I am well aware of the reach! That was, really, the whole point of the commentary- as I said in the very first post. To draw a correlation that may seem vague and unclear to the untrained eye. I think Glim is reading between the lines and responding very well. Perhaps he's more used to my message within a message. I see your point, Glim, but I do have a few more. I'll leave them out of this thread, though, as it's not the intent of the original message! The point only was to illuminate something that is not wholly evident. It is not going to be an entirely direct correlation at this point, but I stick to my guns: Many of these things are interrelated, despite their surface differences. While I think the Team is aware of many of them, there are a few I think are going unseen by eyes on all sides. Thanks for the feedback, guys, and a "special snowflake" world is not what I was getting at. Hahahaha. I think I may use that phrase, though, in the future... I rest my case for a bit. Oh, and Glim- that first part was noted. Thanks.

I'd invite you to feel free to PM me with any of the "other points" or observations that you might have Estara. Would be happy to hear them since you're clearly approaching this from a constructive standpoint.

Something I have been thinking of for a while but never got around to posting. Rather often for requests I advice players to look at similar posts of approved request to get a feel of what we, as a team want to see. I know there are some good guides and examples already but I wanted to ask if you all would be willing to offer some of your requests (both approved and denied) as examples as well. We could perhaps make a small topic listing them and that would help new players to more easily find them.

Thoughts?

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

I wouldn't mind if I was asked.

Just link what you would like to share from your own stash

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

I know in the older version of such links one of my requests was used so I'd be glad to let my requests be used.

Haha, the point was for you to find your own requests and send them in, rather than me putting on my spelunking gear and do it for you

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

Ah sorry, I'll post some links.