AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

A RELATIVELY SHORT INTRODUCTION

1. It gives the new characters a good insight into the basic structure of Tarkuul.
2. It serves as a starting mini quest, which tests the ability of the applicant to conduct a research.

STAY WITH ME WE ARE GETTING THERE

Novitus > Alumnus = Spell of level 0-3
Alumnus > Illuminatus = Spell of level 4-7
Illuminatus > Magister = Spell of 8-9

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE!

HOW WOULD IT ACTUALLY WORK?

Oh, and all forms of feedback are welcome.

Truly a awesome idea, Dead. I hope to see this in action! Plus, Hork's children can be played IC.

I'd like to make the conflict between the Magisterium Mortis and Madrik with his clergy & associates more official and public.

As a member of this faction, Obviously I take a keen interest in seeing the development within this and for new and old players alike to enjoy this.

Apart from resubmitting points that dead has compiled the forum post to begin with I can say as a player that Ahriman has developed so much about him. There is so much PnP wise he can do that stands out from other casters that only through Tarkuul, He would have achieved that.

The roleplay opportunities are there for you.

The Faction leader and DM's are there for you to PM for any ideas and possibly expand your character.

It is just a matter of attesting this and enjoying it!

Within this faction you can make a real difference in the Magisterium through your own creation and development!

Thanks for the feedback Ahri and Nymph. What Ahriman is saying is true, actually. The thing that makes a wizard more powerful and sets him aside from the other level 30 wizards is his capability to react in a situation that requires more than casting of Bigby, Wail of Banshee or another insta-win button.

Those who participated in the Arcanum plot had a good chance to see what can be done if you look outside the box of standard nwn spells. The main reason why the army of Amn never made is past the gate of west cordor was a result of months and even years of RP in Tarkuul. It was not deus ex-machina that brought the Annihilators or undead wyverns with flammable agents. Those things (and the others) were all a result of IC research and effort of the players.

@Madrik the conflict is only Madrik side. Tarkuul is about to get a shrine of Oghma. It will be interesting to see Madrik's reaction when he realizes that his god is a patron of the city he hates. The Magisterium Mortis and Tarkuul have no enemies they recognize. If you take direct action against Tarkuul, and prove yourself to be some kind of a threat, then perhaps. While it may be fun, keep in mind that such comes with dangerous IC consequences. Tarkuul is, as far as I know, like Cordor, Abyss and other major factions in a "serious business" mode, meaning that permadeath is not excluded as a consequence.

I don't really like the spell bank idea, because that would essentially make everybody in the Magisterium the greatest wizards on the server. I'm against people being required to do or join certain things or organizations to have a shot at being the best, and I don't like the idea of a certain group of people being the best all the time. (i.e. nobody should be the best all the time, but everybody should be able to be the best at least once or twice, and through their own methods - otherwise, what's the point of a player character?) Also, mechanically, it sounds impossible, because there are only so many custom spells built into Amia. You can't have 18 custom level 9 spells, there are only 2 custom level 9 spells

However, the idea that a member should be promoted by researching spells on their own is intriguing. How would you deal with members who join after researching their own spell of, say, 7th level? Would they join as a high ranking member?

MisterLich wrote:

I don't really like the spell bank idea, because that would essentially make everybody in the Magisterium the greatest wizards on the server. I'm against people being required to do or join certain things or organizations to have a shot at being the best, and I don't like the idea of a certain group of people being the best all the time. (i.e. nobody should be the best all the time, but everybody should be able to be the best at least once or twice, and through their own methods - otherwise, what's the point of a player character?) Also, mechanically, it sounds impossible, because there are only so many custom spells built into Amia. You can't have 18 custom level 9 spells, there are only 2 custom level 9 spells

However, the idea that a member should be promoted by researching spells on their own is intriguing. How would you deal with members who join after researching their own spell of, say, 7th level? Would they join as a high ranking member?

There is always strength in numbers, whether it's with casters or non-casters. The Academy in Shadowscape, their members collaborate on stretching new aspects of their art. Kohlingen or the new Alt Beg plot BoB has started is capable of doing a similar "pool" setup. It's not by any means limited to one faction. Nor is it limited to mechanical spells that have to be scripted.

What Dead is proposing is not more or less than any group is already capable of doing. And individual caster could do the same with their individual apprentice; the sharing of spells. He's just putting it into action on a factional level, in a structured way.

Well, when someone researches protection from positive energy and shares it with all of Tarkuul, it'll be a sad day indeed for the rest of the island

Protection from positive energy would be the least of the problems for those who want to harm Tarkuul.

MisterLich wrote:

I don't really like the spell bank idea, because that would essentially make everybody in the Magisterium the greatest wizards on the server. I'm against people being required to do or join certain things or organizations to have a shot at being the best, and I don't like the idea of a certain group of people being the best all the time. (i.e. nobody should be the best all the time, but everybody should be able to be the best at least once or twice, and through their own methods - otherwise, what's the point of a player character?) Also, mechanically, it sounds impossible, because there are only so many custom spells built into Amia. You can't have 18 custom level 9 spells, there are only 2 custom level 9 spells

However, the idea that a member should be promoted by researching spells on their own is intriguing. How would you deal with members who join after researching their own spell of, say, 7th level? Would they join as a high ranking member?

I think that the faction that invest the most and does the most of research and puts the most of their time into the faction should be the best at all times.

Also.. inventing a spell is not enough. Inventing a spell is a final test before promotion. One can invest the spell of 7th level, nobody will stop him from doing that.. but there will be no rank skipping. One can, however, move through the ranks pretty fast, depending on the RP. In the Magisterium Mortis there is a character who filed an application on the 1st of September, and he is working on a final test to become a Magister.

Dead wrote:

In the Magisterium Mortis there is a character who filed an application on the 1st of September, and he is working on a final test to become a Magister.

There was also once a student who then rose to the rank of Magistrate as well

and hands down I can say that without Dead's interest and guidance when I first started playing again it would not have turned out like it has!

Oh you mean the Keeper guy.. yeah, there's him as well.

Believe it or not, I checked that PM concerning your character's first project as I needed some info yesterday.

This seems like a fun idea. Assuming you teach a variety of disciplines in the academy, however, might you want to consider alternative methods of graduating? Namely, if a student is not inclined toward pragmatic spellcrafting, a dissertation on some relevant topic, a new alchemical method of corpse preservation, or perhaps the development of some useful tools for arcane work might serve as the graduation project? Just an idea; I don't know how strict and uniform your curriculum is.

I thought about those. I am always trying to home a character according to his own specialization. If you are an alchemist, you can expect getting projects concerning alchemy. If you are an abjurer, I will not task you with creation of new undead. If you are a diviner, expect a lot of history research etc. But creating a spell, it is universal for every spellcaster. A small quote from a fellow Amian who gave me some feedback via PM:

Quote:

I foresee questions about the actual nature of the spell design itself as it relates to class: wizards design spells one way, sorcerors another way, bards another, clerics another, etc. And even then, individual paradigm affects class style perhaps even moreso.

I am thinking of developing a "starters pack". A set of spells that could be of aid for the new researchers. Something along the lines of Scholar's Touch.

Dead wrote:

I think that the faction that invest the most and does the most of research and puts the most of their time into the faction should be the best at all times.

See, that, I dislike, because some people simply don't have the same amount of time to invest in RP as others. Or they have more than one character they enjoy. Or... Something.

One of the allures behind D&D and role playing in general, is doing stuff you can't do in real life. Like be the best. I think everybody should be allowed to be the best at least once or twice, as long as they're at least putting some effort into their character. Frugdar will not, nor should he ever, be the greatest barbarian ever, but he has become known as one of the "best" (deadliest/funniest depending on your viewpoint) Barbarians on the isle - but he's not the best because there are several people who, depending on the situation, come out on top over Frugdar. And sometimes, Frugdar comes out on top over them. That's something I really enjoy and think could be used more on Amia. It doesn't matter if the other guys didn't spend as much time RPing their barbarian or something, they deserve to win sometimes even if mechanically they might not; and sometimes, if Frugdar can't mechanically beat someone, it's fun to still be acknowledge as a scary barbarian, rather than a guy whom you know you can beat in a fight. Dirk respects Frugdar even though Frugdar has no hope of beating Dirk in a duel. Similarly, Frugdar respects Freya Warfang and even pledged allegiance to Skjorn back in the day, even though Frugdar tore Skjorn a new butthole in a series of duels. I don't want me or any other person in any other position to always be #1, personally. I love your idea overall, but that is one thing I don't really like... Perpetually "best" players or characters.

tl;dr: Love the idea, but I think everyone should have a chance at being the best in different situations, or at least feel like they're important or good at their role. Share the victory with other players/characters. It makes it better for everyone involved, from my experience. In reality, some people are the best and some aren't, but this is a game where everybody should have fun and feel important.

MisterLich wrote:

tl;dr: Love the idea, but I think everyone should have a chance at being the best in different situations, or at least feel like they're important or good at their role. Share the victory with other players/characters. It makes it better for everyone involved, from my experience. In reality, some people are the best and some aren't, but this is a game where everybody should have fun and feel important.

Maybe I missed it but I don't think anyone's arguing against this, MasterLich. The concept presented is only one "situation" and as you say, there are many different situations in which people can be "the best", and many different methods of attaining such.

I might have grossly misunderstood, but it just seemed like a spell bank and such would make any illuminatus or whatnot, a middle/highish ranking wizard in the magisterium, have access to tons of custom/pnp spells that nobody else would have, and they would get them mostly for free once they attain that rank. Maybe I'm overthinking this or overestimating the power of those spells, or underestimating the work they have to do to copy/learn each spell in this spell bank.

They would still be required to perform the necessary RP to learn the spell, put in a request, and pay the DCs (if mechanical) to gain whatever spell it was that they wanted to learn from the pool, just as any other caster has to when they learn a spell from another.

MisterLich wrote:

I might have grossly misunderstood, but it just seemed like a spell bank and such would make any illuminatus or whatnot, a middle/highish ranking wizard in the magisterium, have access to tons of custom/pnp spells that nobody else would have, and they would get them mostly for free once they attain that rank. Maybe I'm overthinking this or overestimating the power of those spells, or underestimating the work they have to do to copy/learn each spell in this spell bank.

Yes, that is the idea. The idea is to make members of the Magisterium Mortis superior. The whole idea behind Tarkuul is to maximize individual's potential, and at the same time to maximize the potential of Tarkuul itself.

Getting into the big boys club comes with a lot of quality RP. It is not a secret that I am primarily looking for quality, and even allowing the quantity to suffer, more often than not having 1-2 great RPers in the faction. But those 1-2 players absolutely make it worth it. A guy who got the rank of an illuminatus deserved to be awesome.

Those spells will be powerful, those PnP abilities will make their wielders awesome, but there will always be a bigger and louder gun in Tarkuul. A tiny part of that was shown in the battle of West Cordor. And as I already wrote, all of those things were made by players. They've decided to push the limits.

Dead wrote:

MisterLich wrote:

I might have grossly misunderstood, but it just seemed like a spell bank and such would make any illuminatus or whatnot, a middle/highish ranking wizard in the magisterium, have access to tons of custom/pnp spells that nobody else would have, and they would get them mostly for free once they attain that rank. Maybe I'm overthinking this or overestimating the power of those spells, or underestimating the work they have to do to copy/learn each spell in this spell bank.

Yes, that is the idea. The idea is to make members of the Magisterium Mortis superior. The whole idea behind Tarkuul is to maximize individual's potential, and at the same time to maximize the potential of Tarkuul itself.

Getting into the big boys club comes with a lot of quality RP. It is not a secret that I am primarily looking for quality, and even allowing the quantity to suffer, more often than not having 1-2 great RPers in the faction. But those 1-2 players absolutely make it worth it. A guy who got the rank of an illuminatus deserved to be awesome.

Those spells will be powerful, those PnP abilities will make their wielders awesome, but there will always be a bigger and louder gun in Tarkuul. A tiny part of that was shown in the battle of West Cordor. And as I already wrote, all of those things were made by players. They've decided to push the limits.

I definitely appreciate all the work that Tarkuul's done and I loved their involvement in the war, especially the battle for West Cordor, that was loads of fun. But what about people who simply don't have the time or opportunity to play as much as others? You want them to perpetually be left behind, even inside the Magisterium itself?

Someone who falls completely silent without word would likely fall behind rather than someone who at least posts a line or two in the forum whenever they are able to.

Definitely true, but that's not what I'm talking about

Let's say Ahriman can't log on for more than 5-10 minutes at a time, every few days, for a few months, because he gets a new job or something. What happens to him inside the Magisterium while he's coping with real life?

Please note that I don't have anybody actually in mind here, least of all me (I'm not involved with Tarkuul atm), but this is just something that creeps up sometimes.... What about people who have really active lives and don't have time to catch all the pokemon learn all the spells?

As 666 said, sometimes a few lines, whenever you are able to.. or a big post every now and then is enough. The Annihilators were created by a guy who was doing exactly that. Logging every now and then for 10-15 minutes to do the RP on his own, and shoot the screenshots to DM.

People who do not want to catch all the pokemon should probably find a faction that is not based on catching all the pokemon. You can be casual even in the Magisterium Mortis, but then you are kind of beating the purpose.

Amazing concept! I think it could be revisited

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73687 Maybe you can use some thing from here. I can't see a mage 'faction' getting ground again in such scale though.

Here's a related thread. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81855

Something about Tarkuul's mission statement has always confused me, and this thread essentially exemplifies why. I only ever hear propaganda against the Living City, so I'd rather hear an answer from the actual source this time.

Is "Knowledge" Power?

Or is "Magic" Power?

Putting aside for a moment that a city populated almost exclusively by dark arcanists has certain brands of magic they simply are unable to teach, I'm only seeing support here for spellcasters. I had an assassin for a while that I slated to be involved with Tarkuul, but I thoroughly turned my back on that project because, while she had knowledge, intelligence, and the will to use both of those in excess, she wasn't a spellcaster, so I figured I couldn't get anywhere (see propaganda, above, although the way Tarkuul presents itself has a lot to do with that, too). And now that I'm seeing entire threads on that one faction that read like Intro to Necropolitanism instead of Welcome to the Library, it's difficult to justify changing my stance on the subject.

Tarkuul is one of exactly three evil factions anyone - by which I mean 'average Joe' and not 'at all, period' - can get into right now. One of those is inaccessible to surfacers, and the other is Wiltun, a faction that doesn't place a premium on any knowledgeable pursuits aside from exciting new ways to execute or be executed. Jokes at the expense of Wiltun (a group that I like, in all seriousness) aside, it feels like if your character is intelligent but nonmagical (or, gods forbid, chaotic), they're out of luck. Is there any place in Tarkuul that these individuals can fit in with the RP that's present? And if so, why have I missed it?

While I do understand the above sentiment, for a while now there has been a movement to open up Tarkuul to other concepts as well. Though make no mistake, it's essentially still a magocracy.

I don't want to take away from the topic much , so I'll just point out there is a very Chaotic Evil hub, that doesn't seem to currently be getting much traffic. If the LE hub is focusing on research and necro, lets bring all the other evil intent to Zensh. This is a player driver server, so we have to make some stuff happen before we can get any real developer or DM support (not to imply the Zensh focused DM[s?] are not active).

I've got a couple characters, and back-burner concepts, that I'd love to see play out more, but lack a suitably active and chaotic environment to flourish. Feel free to PM me if the idea of building non chaotic stupid roleplay is interesting (it will take a bit of OOC work), and maybe we can make an evil alternative. Because I will say that necro being the only evil seems kinda limiting.

Guys, you're talking about things that don't even exist. This feels like the job market, where people are complaining about too steep prerequisites to getting decent jobs without ever even filling out an application.

Approachable, proactive and adaptive RP lays the foundation for potentially excellent RP. If you know of an evil faction in Tarkuul, read up and make a character at least somehow compatible with the concept. Then it is the faction's turn to welcome your character, think of a role for him/her to fit in and be active in. Just get out there and mingle. If you're curious, you can even send a tell in-game or a PM over the forum about your interests and get a touch metagamey. Casvenx, doesn't every evil genius need his or her Chaotic Stupid gorillas for that extra bit of street cred?

There's nothing actually stopping a Chaotic PC from making big in Tarkuul, it is merely that any such PC will go against the grain of most PCs in the city. Velsharoon allows CN and CE followers, and he's one of the more prominent faiths in the city. If studious RP is not your thing, some of those scholars sometimes need a bit of muscle who aren't too concerned with morality and ethics to do a bit of heavy-handed work.

There is also the Moorhound company, who will likely be fleshed out as progress is made in the city, or if a PC would like to give them some flesh, go ahead, contact either Manarethan or Nihlus and have at it!

Chaos is fun in Tarkuul. Punishing Frugdar for doing crazy stuff in the guard was a hoot, and he made it hilarious.

Eeek. I think there may be other plot lines more suitable for the crazy-types. Hubs, mm, maybe not yet.

Opustus, you may be right. I admittedly don't know how to Tarkuul. I've tried to a time or two (terribly, I can't even seem to find people there), but the options seem limited if necro or at least mage stuff isn't your character's thing. The lawful side of the alignment wheel has never been of much interest to me personally. I was just pointing out that the options were not quite as limited as suggested, though Tarkuul might be the biggest/most fleshed out evil and the alternative would require some work.

As present leader of the living guard, I'm just going to point out that the whole knowledge and power thing is not that representative of tarkuul as a whole. It's not the city's motto; it's the holy words of the church of velsharoon that just sort of caught on as a greeting. Sort of like the generic greetings and farewells that various faiths use, lathanderites saying something about the sun shining on you or the like.

Tarkuul as a whole is actually more fragmented than it seems, it's just that from the outside it looks like the velsharan/magisterium group is highly over represented. Old tarkuul in history was the magocracy, ruled by wizards. Modern tarkuul is run by an oligarchy, with only a third of the ruling body actually being arcane necromancers. The rest of the council is just folk who do their job well, who happen to be okay with undead being around.

As a whole the entire city isn't that married to the notion of undead doing everything, the guard and office of the castellan are actively recruiting and training soldiers so we can put the skeleton army to rest. The main reason we have them is pure cost effectiveness, but they come with a downside of everyone wanting to murder us. A fact which makes it hard to conduct a city's business.

Regarding the whole thing where it seems you need a lawful necromancer character to succeed, it has to be said that for every person suggesting skeletons do it all, theres two others going 'no, theres someone you can pay to do that'. And arcane research is only for those who want to do heavy research rp. While fascinating, those who want more action or intrigue are free to offer their services elsewhere in the city.

Most of the guard's work is done by rogues and skill monkeys since they consistently pull us out of every meat blender we march towards, and most of the time we come to some arcane ward glyphs we just hand them erasers ratner than cast big dispellings. Fighters have a harder time finding a place since the city at all times avoids active conflict with other cities, usually resulting in players wanting to be a black armored marauder, but chafing under the rule that we can't fight other factions and getting bored.

The trick with playing them in tarkuul is to not play the singular champion, but to play an aspiring general. Your most useful ability is to train the troops we have, and while you won't be knocking down the gates of kohlingen any day soon, you will get all the support you want in marching on what's deemed "acceptable targets", who are usually other evil bastards who refused offers to join us or die. We aren't an evil empire after all, we're working towards it.

There's quite a bit more to it, though. But if anyone has questions on how to tarkuul without being a necromancer, my inbox is open. This particular thread is for the necromancer crowd after all. And sorry for weird spelling or grammar, I'm on my tablet.

@Overneath I can give you a straight answer, but it would be only applied to me as a player of one specific character. My character is in charge of the magic/research/scholarly stuff. Therefore I am always pushing those aspects of Tarkuul. That is the job of me and my character in Tarkuul. You are more than welcome to find a thing that will suite you.

Quote:

And now that I'm seeing entire threads on that one faction that read like Intro to Necropolitanism instead of Welcome to the Library, it's difficult to justify changing my stance on the subject.

I am not quite sure I see what you mean here though. The thread I made is everything but related to necromancy. The thread I linked in my last post is a 'welcome to the library' as you mentioned it. You do not even have to be a wizard. A blackguard, or an assassin can still read.

Overneath wrote:

Is there any place in Tarkuul that these individuals can fit in with the RP that's present? And if so, why have I missed it?

Absolutely. Over the course of the years we supported pretty much every evil faction that came our way to discuss stuff. Offered permanent housing, offered deity idols, offered whatever. None of the offers were ever taken seriously. If you have an assassin and wish you make a name for yourself, drop by, talk to people. One of the most important characters in the city is an assassin.

A far more precise term for Tarkuul is meritocracy. If you want to be important, if you want to rule, if you want to be prominent, then you must find a way to earn it. There are many ways, but all of them require investment into characters, initiative, and patience.

This is exactly why I asked here, instead of continuing to think of the faction harshly. Thank you for your explanations.

Quote:

I am not quite sure I see what you mean here though. The thread I made is everything but related to necromancy. The thread I linked in my last post is a 'welcome to the library' as you mentioned it. You do not even have to be a wizard. A blackguard, or an assassin can still read.

The reference was to this thread in particular, and my metaphor was misguided. The intended illustration was one of magisupremacy in general, not necessarily limited to one specific school.

On topic of the plot hooks, don't go in thinking everything is going to give you some measure of power or reward, mechanical or otherwise. Sometimes, a spade is just a spade, but other times, it can be a single piece of a greater puzzle and you might need to research other pieces to get the full picture.

Just a curiosity of mine: I feel like there's kind of this weird attitude that is like "we'll have evil here" but then as time has proven now and then again, when someone does something bad, those people tend to get thrown out for one reason or another, because housing those people no longer becomes worth it for Tarkuul.

I'm not saying that's a bad stance to take, and it's probably smart. But what I am saying is that it's one that makes me hesitate investing in it, because my characters do more than just talk about evil things, most of the time. Some of my characters are crazy enough that they actually end up doing those things. And even while the population of amia might not find out who did it, the "threat" of it happening might (and has in the past) too much pressure on Tarkuul, who's goals are more line with "self-ascendency and perseverence", not really so much in line with "inflicting evil and misery to some people/NPC's on amia". There's also the all-seeing/hearing-eye/NPC things there, which is kind of counter-intuitive to secretive super evil character plots, and any time I'm there, I can't get that out of my head.

To be honest, I'm not sure how to change anything to make it more attractive for my own characters. It's also quite possible that other people don't have this same view that I do, in which case, that's great too. It's only how I perceive things!

What I do like about Tarkuul, however, is that for research, and scholarly teaching, and all that fun stuff, Tarkuul is a great place. You can find and shape your own characters purpose there if you want to.

It comes down to heat, Mimiron.

If Tarkuul was to shelter someone that has enough warrant to bring down significant forces (Read, 30+ combat parties or significant NPC forces) to hunt them down and ensure they fall, they would in turn risk a great deal of fire coming own on top of them in reply, and while Tarkuul does support the independant and free pursuit of knowledge, there's a measure of 'How can we best serve that goal? Shielding someone who's gone and SEVERELY pissed off a good chunk of the island, or giving them the boot'.

I wish I could think of a good example in fiction that'd help me illustrate this point. In modern day, think of the hunt for Osama however... considering the amount of resources the US government likely used to hunt down and kill him , would you WANT to be between him and that?

That is pretty much it, yeah. Although as the person in charge of the booting boot I will put it this way: it all depends on what benefit you are to the city. If you are just someone who goes to tarkuul and does their own thing, then claims sanctuary without any opportunity for the city to benefit from protecting you? We hand you over. If you are an ally with significant possible benefits for us? Then we have a bidding war between what you offer and what you cost to maintain.

If you are sworn to the city and work to defend it or make it stronger? We fight for you. Even better, if we NEED you? We die for you.

Hmm, I don't find the example of "Osama" really relevant to Forgotten Realms, because good isn't so automatically dominant over evil. In many cases, it can go either way, because their ethics can be between themselves and they don't necessarily have to care about other people, because of the size of their society, or location. In some cases, religion can play a large part, as well as connection with the outer planes. There are a lot of cities and places with open evil in Forgotten Realms. Maybe not so in Amia, unfortunately, but that's the point I'm getting at. It doesn't necessarily have to be on the Amia Island itself, as you alluded the island might have it's own political landscape and landslide against evil, but there's access to other places as well that are part of the server.

Of course, that might be the philosophy Tarkuul follows, in which case, that's fine, but I'm merely explaining why there are people who are looking for something else (or maybe even just me).

Academy of Tarkuul: A new concept

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