AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

joe15552 wrote:

waswar wrote:

I recant on it being victimless. The people who are punished for this nonsense are the victims.

I... can see your perspective on a purely philosophical level, however... have you actually talked to someone that has been punished unfairly for muling? If so, you really need to shoot a DM a message. I have never even HEARD of someone being punished unfairly for muling... let alone talked to someone that it has happened to.

I apologize for my initial bluntness, I occasionally like to get all super-serious and exaggerate whatever I say.

I haven't done much of anything when it comes to debating rules and such when it comes to Amia. Working with administrators for other roleplay settings, however, I liked to express that the ruleset should be minimal, to prevent obstructions of roleplay, but without exerting unnecessary force and control. Everything was looked at with a prioritized level. If a player killed another for no reason, ruining their experience, that would be much more worthy of punishment than let's say, a player subtly breaking the no-ERP rule by doing it with some person at the edge of the map, in some secluded, seldom-visited area.

However, on the same server, groups of malicious players would go around randoming(killing for no reason) large amounts of roleplayers.(This is particularly frusterating because on the game I'm referring to, you lose your equipment, an amount of gold, and any health you healed on death) But the players would be able to do nothing but defend themselves from a possibly hopeless onslaught. However, as this massacre due to short man-power is going on, the forums are being flooded with debates over requests for new rules, such as the aforementioned ERP ban and the like. Randoming temporarily ruined one's experience, but ERP, which I really don't care for, doesn't really harm anyone. Besides, if you can't enforce the basic rules(it's clear when randoming happens) due to lack of manpower, how do you suppose you can deal with more ambiguous ones, such as an ERP ban, which had no definitive punishments, and a rule even the old players tended to break due to disagreements or just lack of general knowledge about the ruleset?(This game had a ruleset updated quite a bit.)

waswar wrote:

However, as this massacre due to short man-power is going on, the forums are being flooded with debates over requests for new rules, such as the aforementioned ERP ban and the like. Randoming temporarily ruined one's experience, but ERP, which I really don't care for, doesn't really harm anyone. Besides, if you can't enforce the basic rules(it's clear when randoming happens) due to lack of manpower, how do you suppose you can deal with more ambiguous ones, such as an ERP ban, which had no definitive punishments, and a rule even the old players tended to break due to disagreements or just lack of general knowledge about the ruleset?(This game had a ruleset updated quite a bit.)

Maybe you don't care about erp but we do. Amia isn't an adult server and running into it accidently especially as a minor -can- cause harm.

Moreso because our host has a teachers job and works with minors so being linked with a server where minors are be exposed to erp would be quite detrimental to his job prospects.

Therefore that rule is not changing.

The twinking rule is quite fine, everyone who wants to pass on an item to someone else can do so with some rp.

The muling rule has nothing to with being generous as you give the items to your own character. I find giving items to your own toons and claiming that's generous ridiculous.
If you want to generous give items to another players character and as long as you put some rp in it, which shouldn't be an issue on a rp server, all is fine and dandy.

C'mon. Minor's are exposes to FAR worse then some torture roleplay nowadays...

Very_Svensk wrote:

C'mon. Minor's are exposes to FAR worse then some torture roleplay nowadays...

If a horse runs in to a fire that doesn't mean it's ok to set your own plot of land alight for it.

It could easily be argued (based on actual science), that knowing about sexuality does not do any harm whatsoever to minors, but I am fairly certain that that argument is not one to be resolved on the forums of an online RPG. Especially since there are huge differences between cultures on how they view sexuality.

I am fine with the rule just because ERP is cringeworthy and utterly embarassing to witness. There is no need to appeal to any definite harm, because there is likely to be no harm, except for possible bruising of the forehead due to too forceful facepalming.

Very_Svensk wrote:

C'mon. Minor's are exposes to FAR worse then some torture roleplay nowadays...

It is also a matter of what is in good taste for Amia as a mature role playing server. There are servers for people who want ERP and Amia is not one of them.

Also, if the Disco lost his job (or worse!), that could possibly have consequences on the running of the server. It's easier to just avoid trouble than it is to deal with it.

There is no need for ERP on Amia.

666WaysToHell wrote:

Also, if the Disco lost his job (or worse!), that could possibly have consequences on the running of the server. It's easier to just avoid trouble than it is to deal with it.

How ... is that even remotely connected to disco running the server? It's like preparing for a tsunami in Stockholm.

Imagine that Disco comes up for annual review for a tenure position or something similar at his job teaching elementary age children, and he has a particularly thorough reviewer on his case. This reviewer digs into some of Disco's holdings and discovers he maintains a server out of a small business a long bike ride from his residence. The reviewers calls this location pretending to be Interpol in order to gain access to the details of Amia and, once he has the website, he purchases a copy of NWN Diamond on GOG and logs into our forums, only to find that Disco is operating a server for players who enjoy raping each other and eating each other's vital organs while they still pump vital fluid. And then he rolls up a 3rd level barbarian and starts running around A while also submitting a report that Disco is unfit to be an educator of young minds.

Something a bit like that, Svensk.

ERP in a public setting only leads to horrible drama. I've been part of servers who let people do what ever they wanted, and it turned into high-school.

Tsunami -> Stockholm -> Not happening.

It's not changing Svensk, no matter what 'argument' you present.

And disco getting arrested by Interpol in some odd future is an 'argument' ?

I'm not against nor for the ERP ruling, I am just baffled by the arguments presented.

Very_Svensk wrote:

And disco getting arrested by Interpol in some odd future is an 'argument' ?

I'm not against nor for the ERP ruling, I am just baffled by the arguments presented.

Good ERP is good (Wow look our characters gain depth)
Bad ERP is pretty much the worst thing short of actual bad things happening in real life ("I take off my robe and wizard hat")

You'd have to take the bad with the good, unless they opened up a DM position for ERP appraisal and auditing for quality

kek

Back on topic: I like that you can pass items with RP! good show

trololol, how did this thread become a discussion about ERP rules?

Hudson wrote:

waswar wrote:

However, as this massacre due to short man-power is going on, the forums are being flooded with debates over requests for new rules, such as the aforementioned ERP ban and the like. Randoming temporarily ruined one's experience, but ERP, which I really don't care for, doesn't really harm anyone. Besides, if you can't enforce the basic rules(it's clear when randoming happens) due to lack of manpower, how do you suppose you can deal with more ambiguous ones, such as an ERP ban, which had no definitive punishments, and a rule even the old players tended to break due to disagreements or just lack of general knowledge about the ruleset?(This game had a ruleset updated quite a bit.)

Maybe you don't care about erp but we do. Amia isn't an adult server and running into it accidently especially as a minor -can- cause harm.

Moreso because our host has a teachers job and works with minors so being linked with a server where minors are be exposed to erp would be quite detrimental to his job prospects.

Therefore that rule is not changing.

The twinking rule is quite fine, everyone who wants to pass on an item to someone else can do so with some rp.

The muling rule has nothing to with being generous as you give the items to your own character. I find giving items to your own toons and claiming that's generous ridiculous.
If you want to generous give items to another players character and as long as you put some rp in it, which shouldn't be an issue on a rp server, all is fine and dandy.

I wasn't necessarily stating support for ERP(I find it mundane and overrated, so I have a more apathetic approach about it). I was using it as an example in stating that all rules should be placed at certain priorities so that manpower for admins/DMs can be used in the most efficient manner. The server owners for what game I was referring to would likely suffer little to no consequences for the presence of ERP, but our host her at Amia might, so the differences in the ruleset in this case makes a lot of sense. Make no doubt, it wasn't the erp rule here on Amia that I was questioning.

My argument was mainly about twinking. I condemned muling in as much a way as I could for such a victimless offense- an admonition, but since no one is truly harmed, that is where I become less unsympathetic towards it.

There are rules for this stuff because there have to be rules about this stuff. If there were no rules about this you'd see people do cheesy stuff like roll a new Pc, drop all the gear, roll another new Pc drop all get, etc. Then they role the Pc they want and have a leap on others with a ton of gold and gear to sell off.

Very_Svensk wrote:

And disco getting arrested by Interpol in some odd future is an 'argument' ?

I'm not against nor for the ERP ruling, I am just baffled by the arguments presented.

Because I'm fairly certain it's against the law in roughly 80% of the world to involve minors in certain types of activity - such as ERP - and from what I've gathered, the punishment can be quite serious.

The server is based somewhere, and whoever maintains it really should avoid being locked up or fired from their job.

That doesnt happen in Europe. Ever. It's an American thing to look people's social lives up and fire people for vague reasons.

Let me explain: He lives in Amsterdam. It's even more open about weird fetishes, sexual orientations and odd behaviour then Sweden is. And we allow pretty much everything, including criminally charged people to take care of our kids in kindergarten.

That argument is beyond invalid.

Edit: and again. I'm not for any type of ERP. I think it's cringeworthy, to echo Silvarus, but there's no real reason other then "We don't like it" that we haven banned it.
Be straightforward about it instead of hiding behind somebody else and claim to protect him/her.

Svensk, it's not changing for the foreseeable future. How many times do we need to tell you this?

For the fourth time: I don't want it changed. I'm just annoyed at the arguments presented, where were suppose to act in discos best interest wen people are in truth just laying out their own agenda hiding behind somebody else's need for "protection"

Okay seriously, whether you want it changed or not is thoroughly irrelevant. We have a valid reason and it's been made abundantly clear to you. If you don't accept it as a reason, that's not our problem.

We didn't make this decision on Disco's behalf, Svensk. Disco made the decision himself as the server's owner. His view of Amsterdam's vigilance differs from your view of it, and while I dig you, I think I am more inclined to side with the opinions of the person who actually lives in Amsterdam to make that call.

Very_Svensk wrote:

For the fourth time: I don't want it changed. I'm just annoyed at the arguments presented, where were suppose to act in discos best interest wen people are in truth just laying out their own agenda hiding behind somebody else's need for "protection"

Well... I certainly would hate for "somebody else" to be jailed, fined, or loose their career because I ERPed a minor thinking they were an adult. I suppose there are people that just don't care???!!! I'm not one of those people. I care... I also care because the person being jailed would be the person who is maintaining the server. So if you don't care about people and only care about the game.... maybe you can at least care about the game enough not to have it shut down by an event like that?

Okay.

Svensk, and anyone else so inclined, please stop arguing just to argue. It wastes time and doesn't serve any purpose. If you have a valid concern, by all means please raise it in a respectful manner, other wise don't post.

I still don't understand why is this not locked yet.

To lock the topic over an obvious troll derailment is not usually the best course of action.

..It's literally an argument Disco himself has personally given, and personally asked us to maintain. If he is the one owning the server, and asking us to not let this happen in order to protect his career, I'm going to say okay.

It's not as if the DM's are like, "We need to think about Disco!" out of the blue. Disco has personally informed us that this is why he wants there to be no cybering.

Which basically means it's the end of the story.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

..It's literally an argument Disco himself has personally given, and personally asked us to maintain. If he is the one owning the server, and asking us to not let this happen in order to protect his career, I'm going to say okay.

It's not as if the DM's are like, "We need to think about Disco!" out of the blue. Disco has personally informed us that this is why he wants there to be no cybering.

Which basically means it's the end of the story.

This. I just couldn't find the post I remember him making about it.

Paladin of Sune wrote:

This rule is not changing, and that's the final word.

Disco is not only the host of this server, but a primary school teacher. Being linked to a server with possibilities of graphic torture and sex would not be good for his career.

Besides that, the acts themselves aren't banned. Two PCs want to have a romp in the bushes? Great. Just don't RP the act itself here.

Want to torture a captive? Go ahead - just don't go beyond the boundaries of taste. Whether you're emoting pulling someone's nails off or outright describing the crack and tear of flesh, it's the same result to the PC - just one is appropriate here and the other isn't.

That's how it is for this policy, and you'll have to like it or lump it, basically. And for the comments of "But what about horrid diseases or RPing childbirth?" If we're mature people, then we should be able to gauge boundaries of what is and isn't appropriate ourselves.

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Muling, Twinking, ILR, and the Like

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