AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Random Encounters, a Rhetoric and (maybe) an Initiative.

A PREFACE

I have been mulling over this thought for some time now, and I've decided instead of letting it haunt me I'm going to expel it onto the forums (hopefully more like a Pollock and less like drunken hurling) and see what happens! I want to hear your thoughts, criticisms, grunts of agreement, harrumphs of disagreement, ca-faws of chickens (or whatever other avian life-form we are trumpeting now as our mascot and hero), and what have you. So here goes, buckle up bby-cakes.

The Rhetoric

Random Encounters are the bread and butter in D&D (Or at least the butter), they give the campaign and therefore the fantasy world your characters are surviving, trucking along, dying and being re-rolled, and occasionally being bad asses in an infusion of life and realism. Without them, what is that world but a stale environment in which one travels from point A to point B to collect objective X, slay baddie Y, and meet NPC Z? The world would suddenly have no space, and no journey. I believe Random Encounters (forgive my wanton use of capitals there, if you're a gung-ho grammar gestapo and wincing in pain) are also essential the the RP world*. I think there is a lot of potential PLOT, character development, and fun times we are missing out on without these random encounters.

I've been playing on Amia for less a period of time than some and longer than some others, but plenty of time to have been there for the "way-back-when's" and "in my day's" of the nostalgic-inducing "back then." I can tell you that there was a time when random encounters were abundant. There was no telling who or what you'd meet when you went out hunting, exploring, whatever. The world was alive on its own. I'm something of a returning player now, and random encounters are hard. Dead hard. I thought, of course, like the weak self-conscientious human I am, that it was just me.. but I asked around enough to know it's not. To know it's not so easy to just bump into your daily RP anymore.

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* = Which I'm pretty sure is backed by the rule of transitive properties (i.e. Amia is based on FR, based on DnD, where Random Encounters are essential) and also by the more popularized Inception memes in which we go deeper starting from Amia and reach DnD, and the writing scrawled subliminally on the wall of every layer is "Random Encounters."

The Initiative

Before you get nostalgic or embittered that I am even bringing this up, I'm not just blowing wind to feed a storm of teary ethos to anger the Gods That Be (Forum mods) and generally upset the general public. I want to throw in my idea out there to maybe, hopefully, potentially solve what I consider a problem of lacking random encounters. Or at least try. My idea is pretty simple (certainly not profound!) and maybe not actually new (I'll accept a modest flogging if it isn't and there's some eerily similar thread somewhere on these here forums.. But I didn't see it if there is). My idea is born of my time away, actually, in a strange and foreign world called MMO RP.

In such an environment as an MMO, where everyone is mixed together with the masses of PvErs, PvPers, ectera, RP is a lot more arranged. In your RP guild of choosing, people ask to RP with certain people, even for certain scenes; setting their role-play up to facilitate the direction of the story (Be it an over-arching story, or just the story of the relationship between their characters). I think, similarly, we could facilitate Random Encounters by arranging them. And I think we can arrange them by simply asking on the forum. Even using this thread to do it. But Rosen, you crazy (and probably attractive) goof! That's not "random" anymore!

I know, I know! And I'm aware there can come a certain distaste to arranging RP to occur OOCly, but if you think about it's what we already do with our DM events. And the idea is that the actual encounters between the characters involved will only be encounters that would happen in the IC world RANDOMLY! Like some Hin's Grand-Pa-Pa going on a sunny walk and bumping into a freaky Pale-master. Or a Knight of Kelemvorite bumping into a midwife that focusing on birthing babies, or whatever. So long as it's random, because for anything that could be ICly arranged (i.e. Nosepick Mc.Gee posting fliers to look for a quality nose hair trimmer, or a friend sending a raven to another friend to meet somewhere) it can be done in game, or in a separate, IC thread. (At the very bottom are my own requests for a better idea!)

With that said, let me propose a simple method to arranging these "random encounters":

requesting

responding

latetforum,

Here's a bare-boned example format for one-size-fits-all of color preferences:

Code:

[b]Character Name:[/b]
[b]Username:[/b]

[b]What I'm Looking For:[/b]

BUT WAIT! I'm not done pitching this idea to you yet, so come back here. Closer. Closseer. Okay, good. Now, I want to discuss a final talking point. The most obvious way these "random encounters" would go is our personal characters (that would otherwise unlikely meet if it wasn't really arranged OOCly because Amia is BIG) meeting up and having their random encounter (I know, I'm really beating a dead horse with that term at this point. Sincere apologies to any lovers of the equine.), but I don't think it needs to stop there. It's also possible that player A could see that player B is looking for an encounter with a certain niche of person, and RP an NPC to fit the bill. This isn't everyone's cup of tea, because it's essentially DMing and not everyone is comfortable with either DMing or being DMed by someone without the fancy official title, but I think there are many situations where it could be just fine (not lore-bending or stepping of DM's toes--like interfering with their plots) and actually help us keep the world feeling alive!

So. Thoughts? And yes, I'm aware I'm turning into some form of parenthesis junkie. I just got done reading Gone Away World by Nick Harkaway and it's got me in a certain mood of writing, hahah! Oh, and here's two requests for my own characters, because I feel as the OP there is some obligation to be the guinea pig.

====================================================
Character Name: Riz'rae Faerfyn
Username: rosencrantz-

What I'm Looking For: I'm looking to meet any Underdark race character, any Drow heretics, and even any Eilistraeens or surface Elves for some rivalry conflict times. Mmh..! Oh, and Tarkuulians too.

Character Name: Aeronor Tel'vyr
Username: rosencrantz-

What I'm Looking For: Aeronor would love to bump into any fellow monks and/or archers, and any Elves, and yes, he does enjoy long walks on the beach. Other than that, I think Aeronor could REALLY benefit from meeting a villain character to help him develop his ethics. I'll even let you beat him up a little

There already is a party finder tool for such arrangements, and yes, I'm aware it's only for "pleasant" encounters such as partying up.

I don't use it and I am a bit concerned this will lead to an increase in OOC organisation beyond what already is the case. I would much, much rather have characters organise themselves ICly. Taking your time and doing dungeons in character -vastly- increases the chances of running into someone; surface-side that is. The UD is, so far, it seems, fairly sparsely populated. I'll even be happy to tell folks when our duergar group is usually on. What I won't do, though, is tell you where we are. You can figure that out in character and it'll be a lot more fun if we don't know to expect someone and reactions will be a lot more genuine.

But that's just me.

It always struck me as a little odd while wandering the mainly-empty hubs of the world that there's the party tool for hunting, but no 'looking for RP' tool if people are having trouble seeing others while they're online. Since I've often left and returned to Amia to find that the people I'd regularly played with before have left, it can make it difficult to break into groups to roleplay with on certain characters, and I spend a long time just wandering around trying to find people. I've sent tells to people explaining my situation before with varying degrees of success, but I'd rather not feel like I have to harangue people who might be mid-RP to come and play with me because I'm lonely.

An tool comparable to, say, NWN2's player list is a lot more preferable to organisation in tells, yeah. It doesn't kill the surprise moment, at least.

I've always looked at the party ball as less of a list of people looking to grind, and more as a list of people that are looking for other players. Often they might be looking to 'hunt', but that's what adventurers do, right?

Use the party ball. Find people that you haven't met through the party ball. RP with those people. Maybe kill some mobs too. If by some strange chance you find people that just wanna silently make every creature on the server go splat, ditch out.

Most of the people that want to silently grind won't be on the party ball though.

Speaking of the party ball though, wasn't there something in the works to replace it with some sort of IG lists based in the taverns? What happened to that? That idea was cool.

I don't know if scheduling RP, as per the thread topic, is something I would go for... but I might give it a shot. I feel like a lot could be done purely ICly, on the boards, but I can see some things that might be hard to arrange that way (or through random party ball encounters). Even if only a handful of people go for it, and it works for them, it's still a good thing. Anything that enables more interaction and enjoyment of the server for all involved is a good thing.

The Party Ball is almost completely useless for finding hunting parties, let alone worthwhile RP. I'm all for introducing something that would help connect players in RP.

IG message boards?

I thought Svensk had a neat idea about stopping into an inn like the Nomad and something being tied to that location.

I've never used Party Ball and never will. For me it is completely OOC and I don't want any OOC actions in game.

OP touched a very good point indeed. Myself I've been severely annoyed by overwhelming lack of actions coming from characters at times. But also, I don't believe people create their toons just to walk around the IC world with no purpose at all, or having no plans what they want to achieve. So, where's the problem?

I believe it's that players are afraid to start conversations for some reason. Ladies, gentlemen - don't be. It sucks. I mean, what's there to lose? Ah, yes. Character's reputation. Noone wants their characters to be seen as rude, cheeky, delusional... basically walking annoyments. (Apart from that characters struggling to fix their reputations once having it lost can be even more fun, no?) But anyway, there's much to win as well. Fame, be it good fame or disgraceful one, can be always in use, as it makes talking to people and getting their attention much easier. There's also a lot of good reputation to gain. And I am not writing this trying to throw you into conversations with every PC you meet. Nah. But a fine strategy for example is paying attention to players going on with emotes for a while. That's always a sign that this player is looking for some random encounter. Just go and get him/her. Many harmless and very casually starting conversations lead to massive involvements and may put your character into a plot lasting for months.

Of course, you can be like "why would I be talking to random characters IC while I'm not like that in RL?". Hah, because you play Amia and you have no RL or it sucks so much you know nothing about it, that's why. Just kidding. Balance is important to keep nice immersion level. But on the other side - it's just a game, for fucks sake. Games are played for fun. Meanwhile, I feel many players play to "win" the roleplay, planning every step, careful not to make any mistakes because... I dunno. Apocalypse happens, or so.

That be my piece of advice. I never had problems finding roleplay myself, though. Because well, it happens that I may have a character in stock that specializes in creating random encounters. Believe me, it's dope. Playing it for a while, all I have to do is set Nevadan in some crowded area and turn stealth mode off. Maybe throw a word or two in random direction. Boom. Things instantly happen.

Pardon that moderately topic related blabber, but just like OP, I felt like writing stuff

So, to respond to Rosencrantz's idea: I like it. Looks like a good starting idea for so many new characters I've seen around recently.
I'm not posting an advertisement myself as I'm kinda occupied IG anyway, but I'd love to see people trying this out.

Oh, and Rosencrantz? Check your priv, dude.

It goes beyond denoting a location or something where folks can meet up and well into preplanned interaction. The problem isn't meeting people willing to RP, for me at least. I meet plenty, all over. And if it were just about that, I'd be all for it.

But preplanning encounters?

Hell no.

I'm sorry, but I do not play NWN for that.

Random encounters would happen more often, if people wouldn't hole up inside. I'll see thirty people logged on, walk my character the length and breadth of the island, and see maybe two.

Kudark wrote:

Random encounters would happen more often, if people wouldn't hole up inside. I'll see thirty people logged on, walk my character the length and breadth of the island, and see maybe two.

Amen.

Yossarin wrote:

Kudark wrote:

Random encounters would happen more often, if people wouldn't hole up inside. I'll see thirty people logged on, walk my character the length and breadth of the island, and see maybe two.

Amen.

Truth there. Most of my random encounters have been out hunting. The delta folks, for example, have excellent placement. Cajun county, right there, love it! In fact, one of the most memorable moments on Amia was when my tiefer bumped into what turned out to be several unsavoury folk underground and unwisely picked a fight. I lost, hard.

But it was awesome.

I'm not sure that sort of thing could happen in quite the same way with planning. If you remove the random element, you kill a lot of RP and start following a script. In the end, for me at least, you kill a lot of the fun.

Step outdoors. Take your time. People are around, in various places. 50% of the time in transit on foot from a to b, I bump into someone.

That said, there are merits to a locator system which tells you X players in location Y, provided there's an opt out for those who don't want to be found. That will fill your random encounter needs entirely, because it will truly be random. You won't know who's there. And that's kind of the point, right?

To be fair, I generally know why people play behind the closed doors. But I just wanted to second that so that people who do can keep it on their minds and realize that making oneself available for "random encounters" is fun.

Side note, I have a lot of PCs I need/want to meet with, but I expressly do not do the PnP spell Sending business. I just wander around where I know you usually may be and if you aren't there, oh well.

I know Hudson likes doing random encounters, be it group or single players running around. I lost a few thousand gold, but I came out with 3 points shifted towards good during one of these.

I wouldn't mind doing this in the forums, but I would prefer a solution that works from the client. The Party Adviser Functionality Thread from a few months ago is here:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75816

It stopped with the following:

Glim wrote:

Haven't caught up on this thread yet and don't have the opportunity to read it just now, but I will. For now though, before it turns into too long of a discussion, know that there are some changes slotted for gaining parties and such which have already been figured out Dev side. It's just a matter of making the time to actually implement them. I'll expand more later, after having read this thread as well.

(emphasis mine)

Regards
Ts

So, I suppose I should have probably expected this idea to be a lot more polarizing than I did around the sensitive (and personal) boundaries one declares for themselves on hardcore RP realism in the context of OOC scheduling. But that's okay! I have a role-player's love for conflict! (At least, in purely intellectual/philosophical discourse and fictional stories). Since this is the divisive issue, I'm going to take a better look at it and maybe address some of the concerns between them.

Let me begin by defining the three "schools" of thought I'm seeing emergent in this topic. To one side there are those who would be okay with some OOC facilitation of "random encounters," then on the other those that wish to keep everything about, of, or pertaining to their RP in character and in game (or something to that effect). Then there's a middling of thoughts in this spectrum about setting up an in character, in game message board to arrange more RP's. I'm going to address each of these individually, though I'll do the camp I belong to last to suppress (as much as a mortal can) my bias until then.

THE NO TO OOC PLANNING SIDE:

It's an absolutely valid argument to keep everything about your character's encounters as purely in character, and a general boon that most people lean on keeping things IC for most of what we do with our characters on Amia. I consider this style of letting encounters happen as they will, without any sort of OOC puppeteering the classic NWN style of role-play. And sure, it could be the very reason one enjoys NWN RP. I'm not The Man that's going to discourage you from playing this way. Nope! Not at all!

You see, this system I'm suggesting is a completely optional, opt-in type of deal. Something some people do where other people don't (Like the party ball), and it's just fine that way. I love options, don't you? You don't need to request any of these random encounters, nor do you need to respond to any. You just need to be you and play how you like to play. I think, inadvertently, if an OOC system you aren't involved with results in (ideally) more people RPing out and about in certain open locales, it could actually still benefit you. You may randomly, ICly, of no OOC intervention of you own, bump into someone having an arranged "random encounter" and ICly get involved! Score, right?

THE "What about IG message boards?" SIDE:

I LOVE (Well, a platonic sort of love, before someone starts telling me I use such a word too lightly) this idea, and it seems like something we should have, but I don't think it really addresses the same problem as what I'm talking about here. It seems a very idea of its own, deserving of its own thread on the Improving Amia forum. And here's why I say this--here's the vital difference: It would be a system for arranging PLANNED encounters, and not so much "random" ones.

What I mean by this, put into example format, is that nobody's character (Well, unless they're a variety of masochist) is going to put out a flier saying, "Hey, looking for some big bad villain to give me a beating so I can build character," or less ridiculously, an evil Drow isn't going to use it to attract a paladin of Correlon to a meeting point. AND EVEN IF THEY DID, it's no longer a random, unexpected encounter that puts both parties on the defensive foot, but an ICly arranged ambush.. And both those scenes are completely different beasts. I mentioned in my OP that the point of this system was to address "random" encounters, and that the ones that could be more easily arranged ICly (via such a message board), should be arranged in that separate manner.

Still, great idea! And I have some other thoughts and points I'd like to add about it and its functionality, but I save it for when I find Svensk's thread!

THE YES TO OOC PLANNING SIDE:

WARNING: BIAS OVERLOAD IMMINENT

So here's where I give my little pitch (comprised on 100% concentrated, personal, open opinion) about why I think OOC planning isn't such a horrible spawn from some RP ruining cesspit of an honest role-player's personal Carceri, and why--in fact--I think it can lead to fruiting more, better RP sessions. Bold claims, I know, but allow me just a moment of your remaining patience from reading the rest of this wall to back this up. Let me start by stating that any scene born of OOC planning can still be a hardcore, realistic, amazeballs scene of epic, deeply in character role-playing. There can be a tomato growing in the wild and a tomato growing on an average farm and they are still both tomatoes. What's important is that our characters are not aware of the OOC scheduling, and to them it is still a "random encounter," which is why I bother at all to still call them that! Because ICly--from our character's perspective, that's exactly what they are!

Maybe it still leaves a dirty feeling in your mouth, but you can still set boundaries on where your characters would actually go and be, and see if both your characters actually have a place in common or if they'd never likely meet. It's what I do! And really, the cold truth is that there is always going to be an OOC overlay to your role-play: RNG dice rolls, in game systems of classes/combat, respawning when nobody is there to res your character, making reservations about letting your character die or not; or of engaging in certain types of RP. The list goes on, and I think the realist's conclusion is that OOC overlays are inevitable, and they might as well be embraced and used in a way to facilitate better RP. Besides, as I said in my original post, there is already a precedent in arranged meetings with any DM event scheduled OOCly for time on the forums. What's the difference between realizing the necessity of planning for a DM event, and realizing the necessity of planning for something smaller-scale, but unlikely if we don't try to encourage it along?

So what about the better and more buzz words I used above? Well, now I can explain that! If one does choose to embrace, or at least dabble (even begrudgingly) into this system of OOC scheduling, they'll find themselves spending less time with their characters wandering alone around Amia looking for something, anything to get involved in (It's valid if you or your character actually wants to do this, sure, but I mean if it's more just what you do to find RP!). They will also be less constrained and limited by role-playing with the same circles of people they know, because you will be able to branch out and interact with completely new characters, which can result in: more plots, more character development, and more fun. Finally, and I think most importantly, you'll be able to set up some really amazing and fun scenes.. Like the formation of a rivalry, or the formation of a random friendship. Scenes that would otherwise be unlikely to happen of their own volition on Amia these days.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not trying to pull in the OOC world to create more OOC and generally do a disservice to the RP of the server, I'm pulling in the OOC world to create more opportunities for interesting role-play sessions. And I don't think OOC planning really taints the actual scene, the same way OOC planning doesn't really taint arranged DM events.

So, About the Party Ball

The reasons I didn't mention adding scripting to simply create a "Looking for RP" list on the party ball is really that I wanted to discuss the idea first and get some idea of the interest, because I'd rather not put in a request for our tireless sla--.. DM's to script something else into the game unless there is a worthy amount of desire for it. Their demands are already pretty huge with the Requests forum, and besides this could be done on the forums until there is an IG counter-part.

That said, I do think the Party Ball makes an interesting correlation with this topic of discussion, because it was the solution to a similar problem and I think over time it's become more useful than less. And really, it's what I've sort of desperately been using lately to find any kind of random RP at all in the earlier hours. I mean, I don't really mind leveling my alt, but it's not really the reason I invest the time into the party ball either.

Oh, and finally, I'd be curious to hear other solutions to inducing more "random encounters" as well!

Actually, the more popular an OOC system becomes, the less likely you are to be involved in roleplay if you eschew it. I've been on plenty of servers with exactly this system and I have to say, good luck getting into any plots without metagaming your way in. I'm hesitant to namedrop servers here, but let's just say it's something I'm not used to from the MMO slot, but rather NWN social tab. I'd rather not see full blown OOC organisation on RP. It leads to an inevitable detoriation in quality and seperation of IC and OOC.

Frankly, at this point, I feel like I'm reading a sales pitch from CMOT Dibbler.

I think there's a crucial difference between what you're talking about and what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a massive scale OOC take-over that covers all the role-play on the server. I'm talking about a small-scale OOC system that affects a narrow-band of RPs. And I think, essentially, the idea isn't taking on-going, current RPs already happening and strapping an OOC system to it--those will go unchanged--it's more creating new RP that could be happening but isn't because it's not so easy to just naturally bump into characters strangers to our own in a random, chance scenario anymore. I already had some interesting offers from my own requests too, one in which a mostly retired member wants to come back for an interesting scene, and I think it would have been harder for him/her to find one with his/her limited scheduling. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I don't really see the reason behind the doom-saying either.

Besides, I think we can have a little more faith in Amia than we could in whichever Social server you're describing. I'm also SUPER OPEN to hearing other ideas around this; even you suggested you could just use the party ball for this sort of thing--Which is an OOC system in itself. I think I've talked my points out though. I just want to hear opinions at this point.

PS: If you feel like being offensive towards me with such things as your CMOT Dibbler comparison (Which almost makes me smile, cause Discworld!), at least have the courtesy to do it in a PM. I don't think people want to see that sort of thing openly on the forums. And for the record, I actually happen to respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

PSS: If this thread gets out of hand or derails too much, feel free to close it, Mods.

CMOT Dibbler is a highly talented, charismatic salesperson who generally means well, even if his interests are always somewhat self-serving, and a quite delightful person to talk to. The problem he has is that his lofty, sometimes ingenious, schemes always contain a critical flaw or go too far, which turns them into train wrecks.

This is precisely the case with this proposal.

This is what you are saying, with the buzzwords stripped away:

We should go beyond being able to advertise our location on a server and OOCly plan encounters ahead of time, from the time and place into what actually happens as well.

This is a fancy way to say "metagaming should be OK".

And that is precisely the problem here and why I am so vehemently against it. Where does it stop, seriously? Accidential meta happens all the time, and here, it's basically opening the door for the deliberate, genuine thing to become a habit.

I truly sympathise with not being able to find RP. It can happen. But you should never, ever need anything beyond "X people in location Y" to fulfill that need. Everything, literally everything else detailed that "would be possible" with what you propose I have seen, and done, without the need of OOC crutches.

I agree with BornToKill, more or less. It would also send the message that it's OK to pick and choose the kind of RP you want. While, yes, everyone can make their own story on Amia and we cannot force people to play with eachother, it is absolutely not the message we should be broadcasting. You should be looking for whatever RP that comes your way. It is relatively easy to fulfill specific means via the PC Notice Board forum, but when you're in game you should be open to surprises. "No sorry, I can't stop to RP with you because I've agreed on a "random encounter" to meet elves" is not something I want to see.

I check the party ball almost every time I log in. If there's nothing going on in the cities/usual places, I see if anyone's looking to group up and send them a tell, even when I don't actually need to grind. It's a good way to meet new players, and might surprise me positively.

My issue with the party ball is that the primary expectation is that you've used it because you want to grind. The RP that comes along with it goes from absolutely great to none at all, and in my experience things are more weighted to the 'nothing' end of the spectrum.

I'd be all for a duplicate tool that would let people know you're not up to anything and would like someone to RP with. OOC planning need go no further than 'I'm in area X,' and probably shouldn't for the reasons stated above. Agreeing even vaguely on the outcome of a situation beforehand might be detrimental to the roleplay of others who are removed from the equation or have RP invalidated because of OOC agreements, and in my opinion it removes a lot of the spontaneity that makes things fun.

I'd see it as a 'blind date RP tool' that just matches up a few folks in the mood for random.

From my perspective, a lot of these concerns over what might result from something like this are speculation more than clairvoyance, but then my perspective is born from MMO guild style RP (where such a system does work and strong meta-gaming boundaries are still maintained), and I could definitely be wrong in judging how it would impact a NWN server. After something like a two year departure from NWN, you're more of an authority than I on how things affect the balance of RP in NWN.

I think most importantly, there seems to be a majority against this idea, which is something I totes accept. That's why I made this a discussion in the first place. I still think this thread shows there are some people whom would welcome a new mechanic to finding RP, like adding a "looking for RP" list on the party ball, or IG message boards, ect. And I would really like to see those ideas explored, though I'm not sure this is really the thread to do so over a prolonged period. It's fine to not have an OOC scheduling system, but I think it's less fine to not consider other ways to bring people together other than the party ball lottery and pain-staking "chance." Not everyone has hours to spend looking. I definitely don't. It's easy to feel cut-off from RP if you're a new member, or even a returning one, and that just doesn't sit right with me.

The idea Yossarin was referring to, I think, was an IC translation of the party ball in which PCs could make announcements about whatever it is they're looking. Something as simple as a tavern notice board might work, but it would be even better if it could be magical and connect various locations to eachother. The notice boards are on Glim's to-do list, though I'm not sure what the final version will look like.

IronAngel wrote:

I agree with BornToKill, more or less. It would also send the message that it's OK to pick and choose the kind of RP you want.

It seems to be usual for people to choose things they want over things they don't want. If the requests are very specific ("Looking for a Necromancer to smite"), it would be kind of odd. General availability for RP, though, I don't see as "choosing the kind of RP they want".

IronAngel wrote:

It is relatively easy to fulfill specific means via the PC Notice Board forum

At least my attempts mostly haven't been fruitful because the people that took interest were in different time zones, lead different lives etc.

IronAngel wrote:

but when you're in game you should be open to surprises. "No sorry, I can't stop to RP with you because I've agreed on a "random encounter" to meet elves" is not something I want to see.

To assume that people willing to RP and actively seeking out RP would just run past an option to RP ... That doesn't compute. Surely it will hapen. It's probably nothing new that people really want to be somewhere else with other people for OOC reasons. But just like people send tells "Sorry, caught up in RP" to their hunting party, it shouldn't be a problem to send such tells to random RP partners if you found RP where you were.

IronAngel wrote:

I check the party ball almost every time I log in. If there's nothing going on in the cities/usual places, I see if anyone's looking to group up and send them a tell, even when I don't actually need to grind. It's a good way to meet new players, and might surprise me positively.

Thanks for looking at the ball! I just want to make the party ball more attractive to RPers.

But obviously, I don't mind OOC arrangements and don't understand why people are so vehemently against them. It's a game after all and I want to enjoy it. We have "Alternate Beginnings" threads where people _create_ characters just to play together and then show up at the same time ... I don't have a problem with that at all, but it sure is very meta.

And let's face the reality, please: People already meta game to arrange meetings and find parties. Usually just with people they know, though, and if that clique-stuff could be loosened up a bit with random encounters, I would be all for it.

Regards
Ts

I don't know about others, but if I promise to meet someone, I'll meet them even if something better crosses my path. I just find it very offensive when people who have agreed, via the party ball or otherwise, to go hunting or something else together, suddenly leave because they have something better to do on the same or another PC. So if I were to use the system, that's probably what I'd end up doing.

It's not a strong argument against the suggestion, granted. It already happens with the party ball and other private arrangements. I'm just not sure I want to see it happen more. The basic idea of making people available for RP is good, but I'd rather do it through IC means. A new order of town criers, posted all around Amia, who have a magical wire transmitting messages between them? You could pay 500 gold or something to send a message through the system, and in every town NPCs of that order (of the Telephonous Incantation?) cry out the message to people standing nearby. I understand it means you actually need some IC reason to look for people, but I find it weird to broadcast OOC messages of "loner PC does not like anyone, please come RP" anyway.

If this were just about advertising one's location on some optional tool to find RP, I'd be all for it. That's fairly standard on large servers with a lot of areas. However, planning how actual RP would go IG was mentioned and that's really where I draw a hard line and start frothing at the mouth.

Personally, I've never had a problem getting into a party, finding a party or running into someone for RP if I wanted to. 'Course, at times, I can't justify partying with someone ICly because my character would rather run away or flat out kill them. At times, people are ICly rubbing all over the peeves of some of my characters, and that means there won't be a happy hunting party either. I'm certain cliques exist, they always do, but it is seldom so that you will find yourself having problems getting a foot in the door. By and large, even the rudest people here on the forums (looking at...probably myself here :lol:

) are fairly accomodating and open to roleplay IG.

The only real problem I've run into is the +/- five level range for hunting parties. That is where I see behaviour suddenly change from IC to OOC and it bugs the hell out of me. I think a lot of the perceived problems about not finding people to RP with etc. come from the restrictions on level range in parties. I've seen IC outings that could have been fun and fruitful just shatter the moment people realised they were out of XP range. It sets a poor precedent.

I like it, and I support the endeavor. Once I fix my computer, I'd happily throw some randomness with NPC's at the 'random encounter' groups.

To preface, I'm not at all against OOC interaction or even planning to achieve IC ends. HOWEVER, it has to be done correctly and carefully, otherwise it could have adverse reactions. And I'll get to that later. I'll give a few tips here, in regards to OOC Organizing.

The DM team does a lot of OOC planning in order to make things as seamless as we can. I've been a part of good factions and evil factions and 'freelance' aplenty! Getting people in one place is probably my greatest skill as a player, and how I've been able to build two of the largest factions (One had 28 Active members, the other 32). And I'll tell you that a lot of it began with OOCly inspiring people to get back on their computer and try out Amia. I had to encourage them to play something that they might be excited in. It would have taken me IRL years to build my character's efforts into a functioning Cult of [Insert Devil name]. Yes, I understand that there are others who would prefer no OOC interaction while IG, and I respect that. However, I personally enjoy playing with other characters, and when you're playing a dark, secretive association, it can be -really- difficult to recruit. Consider how tough it is when your secretive, selective evil faction also recruits by race. A Half-Orc tribe of raiders in the Bloodmoons? That just wouldn't happen unless you OOCly convinced another player to make a Half-Orc. You can't just bump into another potentially evil character and recruit them, because they're not likely going to be a half-orc. You see where I'm coming from?

I'm a large supporter of OOC recruiting -players-. What does that mean, and why the distinction? Recruit the players, not the characters OOCly. Characters are a function of In-game thought, creation, etc. Players are the people who play them, and are absolutely out of character. Whenever you recruit someone OOCly, whether to a faction, to an event, encounter, etc-- be very careful not to script the outcomes. Be open to someone making a character that is in conflict with your own, or not how you saw the original idea going. I've seen plenty of players try to OOCly recruit for a faction, only to find that the players they included created characters that ended up drifting the idea from the original. You can imagine the contention afterwards. Don't hold onto the OOC idea. Understand that the only moment of OOC 'scripting' should be the very beginning, where everyone sits down at the table together. After that, its IC.

Also, never OOCly arrange RP that is to the direct detriment of another character. THIS IS IMPORTANT. Say you've got a big brute of a friend who wants Jim dead. You OOCly invite Jim to a tea party-- and Jim finds out Brutus is also there as he steps through the door. You help Brutus kill Jim. Absolute OOC bitterness follows. Don't take advantage of people's desire to meet and punish their characters for it. Let their character's walk into a trap without OOCly convincing the player that it will be fun. You can OOCly arrange a meeting where you and Brutus plan Jim's murder, that's fine. Because you're just expediting a process. However, because there are so many variables in Jim's avoidance of an In-Character trap, you should be very, very careful when planning anything OOCly with him. Stay away from organizing conflict RP OOCly. Especially when one of the players involved doesn't understand that conflict might happen. This is how feelings get hurt, and how good intentions turned to player bans.

That being said, don't be afraid of OOC interaction to organize playing together. If you think there might be conflict at your random encounter, put that in the advert: "Caution, my character is volatile and character conflict may occur."

XVCINE wrote:

I believe it's that players are afraid to start conversations for some reason. Ladies, gentlemen - don't be. It sucks. I mean, what's there to lose? Ah, yes. Character's reputation. Noone wants their characters to be seen as rude, cheeky, delusional... basically walking annoyments. (Apart from that characters struggling to fix their reputations once having it lost can be even more fun, no?)

Are you bloody kidding me?! A boring, bland fencesitter is the LAST thing I want to RP with, anyway! As for making characters like that? YEAH RIGHT. If my PCs are not hated/loved within 1-3 meetings of every PC they interact with, I am playing them wrong. Give them LIFE, give them personality, hell, MAKE enemies if you have to, for some RP. Yes, I know Sehaikiita Esteriu Kiiriane is a nutjob. She's MEANT to be. -All- my PCs are, in one area or another. Feck, it's what makes a PC so memorable, even if you want to strangle them on sight. I see so many alts and shet on these days who just slink around and whack things with nary a word. Come on! Hate me, attack me, argue with me! Or worship me. It doesn't matter. Might start fireballing the quiet ones, just to get reactions going IG.

You've been warned. :twisted:

Oh, and I usually lurk between Bendir and Cordor, or out in Nes'ek around the market area.

Fire Kitten wrote:

XVCINE wrote:

I believe it's that players are afraid to start conversations for some reason. Ladies, gentlemen - don't be. It sucks. I mean, what's there to lose? Ah, yes. Character's reputation. Noone wants their characters to be seen as rude, cheeky, delusional... basically walking annoyments. (Apart from that characters struggling to fix their reputations once having it lost can be even more fun, no?)

Are you bloody kidding me?! A boring, bland fencesitter is the LAST thing I want to RP with, anyway! As for making characters like that? YEAH RIGHT. If my PCs are not hated/loved within 1-3 meetings of every PC they interact with, I am playing them wrong. Give them LIFE, give them personality, hell, MAKE enemies if you have to, for some RP. Yes, I know Sehaikiita Esteriu Kiiriane is a nutjob. She's MEANT to be. -All- my PCs are, in one area or another. Feck, it's what makes a PC so memorable, even if you want to strangle them on sight. I see so many alts and shet on these days who just slink around and whack things with nary a word. Come on! Hate me, attack me, argue with me! Or worship me. It doesn't matter. Might start fireballing the quiet ones, just to get reactions going IG.

Nah, I don't think I'm bloody kidding you. In fact, I meant what you just wrote, so I can't agree more with you. But these are facts. The feeling part of amians are afraid to "lose" the roleplay can be strong at times. And I find it bothersome, because it's just a game where you can, and even should take risks or simply make your character flawed for the sake of fun. If I wanted to meet just common, boring people, it's enough to step out of the house in RL.

A large percentage of people are tendentially afraid of negative OOC reactions based on their IC, yes. This problem has been as old as NWN, however, and you aren't going to fix it with any amount of forum posts. The only thing you can do is be entirely chill about it IG. Eventually, people might take a risk and roll something that'll rub folks the wrong way without bringing IRL concepts like "racism" up in their defense. Hopefully, they'll have positive experiences with it and find it fun.

I have a solution. Instead of waiting for other people to make concepts that rub others the wrong way, just make PC XYZ yourself that has utterly biased, illogical (see: insane), and eventually violent feelings towards whatever fencesitter silent-bastard PC ABC happens to do or like. Then pursue it with all your heart :lol:

Take that for trying not to make waves. :evil:

Edit: For maximum hilarity value, aim for the innocent goody two-shoes who never actually crusade against the powers of EBIL, or the ebil fecks (see: Lucius Blackwater) who warm a bench all day.

PS. I tease, Lucius. I know you're actually just waiting for someone innocent to walk into Tarkuul by accident so you can use their spleen in experiments, like a trap door spider.

Insane is done to death and boring, 90% of the time. I'd also rather not make a character just to troll other people, there's enough of those already in the game and I don't need to add to it, when I can get similar, less infuriating results with, for example, a completely sane, consequentially played human paladin.

Because making a paladin isn't asking to be trolled by evil people?

Also, I was jesting, silly. Besides, SOMEONE has to spice up the lives of these bored, boring, silent PCs. :twisted:

And if insane is old and boring, perhaps you're just doing it wrong.

I got through like the first five posts. All you peeps that want some quality RP (not that it isn't everywhere mind!), come to the Lowlands Delta, west of Cordor. We've had a giant increase of people strolling through and end up staying for a while. We have a quickly growing faction based there and are welcoming to all.

This is not say we don't like or want villain/conflict RP as well! Though you may find it difficult to have a reason to be mean to us unless you're just a plain asshole to everyone lol. We seriously accept everyone being around until such a point that it becomes a problem for the business.

So come on down!

MOD

On a related note, something else that royally pisses me off, now that I think about it.

The people who do nothing but silently farm their way to 30 before, out of the blue and without hardly any prior RP, being all 'BWAHAHAHAH I R EBIL HEAR ME ROAR' or 'YOUR EVIL DIES HERE!', as if there was nothing they could do before then that didn't involve a high risk of direct PvP. And even if it came to PvP, its courtesy to let the lowbie live once or twice before whacking her good if RP can permit it, or to curse / damage / maim / etc the person instead of permadeath, so they have to struggle ICly to get fixed and have revenge.

I was L9 for two weeks, RPing with tons of 30s and going places my 27 hp tush had no rights even hearing about for another twenty levels, but I learned a lot and got a crapton done IG because of it and with minimal PvP. There's tons to do with highbies, even if you're out of their range. Suck up the XP loss and have some fun, dammit! :evil:

Use the time to learn ICly, to make allies for the long grind, to gather resources and information, but don't just be a feckin' lurker waiting to leap into the world like you're all that when no one even knows your damn name.

EDIT: Oh! I just thought of something. The people who don't like RPing the growth of their PC, and who 'appear out of nowhere' according to the player, already at L30. You know, the ones who, after non-stop running between merchant and mob for 30 levels, suddenly bursts onto the RP scene proclaiming themself Baddy McBadGuy....and then trying to ICly / OOCly convince everyone they are 'new to the area' or have 'always been this strong'. Cause, you know, you wouldn't want everyone to know the growing pains of your char, or want to RP your growth from Wimpy McSquishface to Beefy McMuscles.

^ These are the real feckers here who, if I ever saw them pulling these sorts of shet, would never get a DC from me, and more likely a few baalors spawned on them every rest if I ever had the powers to do so.

Guys, I hate to be that guy, and I enjoy reading your opinions (I actually think the discussion on people being nervous about how their characters are accepted is a good one, worthy of much talk! I think there's a variety of player that considers their character their personal avatars in a new world, personally. Almost like a Second-Life type deal.), let's try to keep things on topic. Or not, if there's nothing else to be said on this one, and if so we can make new threads and start the process over!

Thanks for that shout out, MOD! Sounds interesting. And yes, Hackums, I think those conventions of OOC-IC managements are sound. I want to touch on the point you make about OOC 'scripting' specifically, because I generally agree there and I think it's something that spans throughout many contexts. You can begin an event with OOC scripting, then let it free. You can begin your character with OOC scripting (background, beginning traits, ect) and then let them grow dynamically. And I want to extend here now, by saying you can very well do the same thing with small scale scenes. You can say, "Hey let's have these characters bump into each other here" (scripting) and then let it blossom into an organic, self-sustaining, unbridled role-play session. I think there is a general taboo on "OOC" on Amia so heavy that it can actually be limiting and as I've said before, result in a loss of potential scenes of brilliant role-play. But I think I've come to terms with the fact that my style of RP has evolved into something else since I've left, and maybe I shouldn't really push Amia to change from what it naturally is rather than accept it for what it is.

That all said, I do encourage people to have some faith in themselves and each other with matters of OOC and IC. I don't think there really needs to be this phobic attitude about its detriment. Believe it or not, every role-play server depends equally on OOC and IC; there is a relationship there and I don't think it's one to curse and scorn so much as respect and know responsible boundaries for. There is a LOT of evidence of how OOC can actually enrich someone's role-playing experience!

Everything comes down to how people handle the OOC/IC divide and themselves, and I would contend most people are mature and experienced enough in Amia that it wouldn't be a problem. The people that log on every day are loyalists, players who come home to Amia and probably have for a good while now. We know each other, and we respect and want well for the server. Harmful meta gaming is the exception rather than the rule, and I think whether it happens or not is more a matter of the character of our playerbase than it is of the minute systems we utilize. We can have a little faith that we're not all complete dill-heads out to ruin everyone's fun with harmful meta-gaming. I believe we should be building our systems for the decent people and respectable role-players of our server, rather than building (or NOT building) them for the more rare problematic meta-gamer (and thankfully this is what we seem to do!). They shouldn't be the focus of our design process or even these ideas in this thread. Metagamers happen! I mean--I'm going to name drop myself here--just today I got the slap of the wrist on the forums for a meta-gaming oversight at the time I didn't really consider. It happens.

I still believe even in the smallest form, a little help to finding RP could go a long way to actually helping RP.

The rush to thirty isn't because of PvP. At least as far as I can tell. The rush to thirty is because people have the feeling they cannot get into plots before it, and to some extent, it's true. I'm still waiting on word from Thay with Raz'zak, for example.

Another friend of mine was told they need to be level 25+ to be part of the Amon event. That's nice. Wait, no, it's not. It directly implies that until I hit that level range I will be ignored in the big plot.

Just yesterday, we had an open surface drow be cocky as fuck in our faces, because they were 30 and it's utterly invonceivable someone from elsewhere might be 30 as well. No, newcomers are all low level and thus classified as "no threat". :roll:

So yeah, I understand the rush to thirty. It's tedious. It's annoying, but if you want to do it, do it. Come out of nowhere and remind people the rest of Faerun exists and is a bigger fish than a tiny island off the sword coast.

Hell, if I had the DCs to spare, I would make a red wizard or Zhentarim and pump him to 17 on creation. Why? Because red wizards and Zhentilar are some of the most dangerous things in Faerun and I want to blast some of the derps who'll inevitably come lolling over because they see them as a lowbie wizard or fresh banite sword fodder clear out of the water with a timestop to the face. Where did they "suddenly" get that power? Welcome to Toril. These guys are supposed to be dangerous

What's the difference between using an OOC motivation to log in and 'meet up' with people for a DM event versus planning it on the forums? I'm pretty sure everyone saying they don't want to pre-plan encounters has pre planned something before. There's no 100% sanctity of natural actions and occurrences.

Just make the forum topic "Looking For Roleplay" and people can post there. List who your PC is, or don't. List where you'll be and what time and what you want to do or keep it as minimal as possible if you don't want people to metagame, but hell I think it'd be exciting, and plus, if anyone pulls a dick move and comes to assassinate you it'd be really really obvious they 100% metagamed, and that's on them. Everyone's gonna know and they'll be an idiot.

"Hey, Barny McDrunkerson, I'm on Amia A, level X, I want to go to X dungeon but we're going to walk and RP the entire time. I'll be waiting IG between 7 pm and 8 pm. "

"Hey, Rosey Redcleavage, I like to go to the bath house, but find them more peaceful when 15 people join me, I'll be on Amia B walking around bathing places from 1 am to the end of this red bull."

If there's people who don't WANT to do this, they don't have to! I really don't see the argument. It's not gonna be forced on people. Ultimately I'd be able to get over any lingering feelings of 'this was forced/planned/not organic!' once I had one great RP session after another and 5 new IC friends. Go, go post it right now.

I think you have a great idea here. While sitting around Bendir Dale and meeting new friends is nice, I like to play this game for random encounters. Adventure and conflict is fun in my opinion. Count me in if your idea ever becomes of something.

BornToKill wrote:

There already is a party finder tool for such arrangements, and yes, I'm aware it's only for "pleasant" encounters such as partying up.

I don't use it and I am a bit concerned this will lead to an increase in OOC organisation beyond what already is the case. I would much, much rather have characters organise themselves ICly. Taking your time and doing dungeons in character -vastly- increases the chances of running into someone; surface-side that is. The UD is, so far, it seems, fairly sparsely populated. I'll even be happy to tell folks when our duergar group is usually on. What I won't do, though, is tell you where we are. You can figure that out in character and it'll be a lot more fun if we don't know to expect someone and reactions will be a lot more genuine.

But that's just me.

Running around the whole island or multiple locations if on B isn't exactly fun, especially if you can't get there without a group period.

BornToKill wrote:

The rush to thirty isn't because of PvP. At least as far as I can tell. The rush to thirty is because people have the feeling they cannot get into plots before it, and to some extent, it's true. I'm still waiting on word from Thay with Raz'zak, for example.

Another friend of mine was told they need to be level 25+ to be part of the Amon event. That's nice. Wait, no, it's not. It directly implies that until I hit that level range I will be ignored in the big plot.

This is tough, yeah. From a DM standpoint, if there's hack-and-slash events, its tough to have a lower leveled character. This is mostly why I stick to mystery/puzzle plots, with the occasional boss fight. But if its 1v3, and that's the extent of who's involved, I can easily re-balance a creature.

Also! Some of the most fun I've had was with a level 5 character in Cordor's plot, with a group of other lowbie players. Granted, we bumped into a very, very valuable level 30 character that gave us what we needed, but for the most part, we were able to have a large impact on the plot by conversational Rp, rallying, reporting, and more. Fighting, we would have been a joke.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

BornToKill wrote:

The rush to thirty isn't because of PvP. At least as far as I can tell. The rush to thirty is because people have the feeling they cannot get into plots before it, and to some extent, it's true. I'm still waiting on word from Thay with Raz'zak, for example.

Another friend of mine was told they need to be level 25+ to be part of the Amon event. That's nice. Wait, no, it's not. It directly implies that until I hit that level range I will be ignored in the big plot.

This is tough, yeah. From a DM standpoint, if there's hack-and-slash events, its tough to have a lower leveled character. This is mostly why I stick to mystery/puzzle plots, with the occasional boss fight. But if its 1v3, and that's the extent of who's involved, I can easily re-balance a creature.

Yeah a lot of events have a combat aspect and some of them are crazy, I have seen Caraigh chew and spits people out, even 25+ people. Its why some people focus on combat power more then anything else to try and even the odds.

Random Encounters, a Rhetoric and (maybe) an Initiative.

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