AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So.. This has always been a pet peeve of mine. I'm far from being an RP elitist and I don't consider myself 'hardcore' in any way when I'm playing, but I've always been iffy about gear swapping.

I've seen this really often while playing, but I'll give you all an example of something that happened a few weeks ago.

I was online and someone's character was buffing up. He used Boots of Urgency for Haste to start buffing and, by the time the buffing was over, he'd used two other sets of boots, two cloaks, and those bracers that give the True Seeing buff. I could see all of this because of the combat log. I thought it was pretty funny and I was pretty tempted to have my character ask him why he kept changing his boots. This happens a lot on a smaller scale, too. Characters hear that an invisible character is around and suddenly everyone is wearing the same bracers to activate the buff.

How is it handled from an IC perspective? Are we supposed to pretend our characters don't know?

Personally Rosie always wears bracers of the unblinking eye when she isn't hunting but if I do change gear such as amulets or whatever I always RP switching between them. I don't care personally f someone wants there character to enchant with 4 boots 6 gloves 7 cloaks and a helmet but I don't do it prersonally. I have dropped darkness and ducked around a corner to change into robes that I'd just bought before

I don't care much either. It just feels a little awkward when people do it because I know that their character would've had to undress and dress again with different accessories every time they do it.

It's one of those things I just don't pay attention to when other people do it, because really, what's the point?

Personally I can only wear a bracer on each wrist but I have many more than that, so unless I'm first changing my gear I don't usually bother with emoting it. The only time I pay any real attention to this is if I'm having to perform dice rolls for something. While I may have the gear in my inventory, if I wasn't prepared at the time then woe is me! However, I can't impose that sort of behavior on other people, and have no idea what they are doing inside their inventory window.

No-one's ever asked, but if pressed I would brazen it out by saying I'd used them by shoving my hand inside them. Is there a lore-ish reason why that wouldn't work?

Well there is no ruling on changing clothing. If there was getting in and out of fullplate would take most of a server reset time

Uberuce wrote:

No-one's ever asked, but if pressed I would brazen it out by saying I'd used them by shoving my hand inside them. Is there a lore-ish reason why that wouldn't work?

According to the books, no.
Not unless it's got a spesific parameter in it's description to define it. Beyond that it'd depend on the magic imbued on the item is command word triggered (A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.) or Use-Activated (Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all.)

I always thought people buffing must look insane. Frantically uncorking potions to down them like shot glasses, unrolling scroll after scroll in quick repetition for activation, quickly falling on their knees for a quick prayer, before muttering spell after spell after spell under haste that would make their voice sound like you put a movie on double speed. If they sit down to swap three pair of boots, two cloaks and four pairs of bracers like an undecisive teenage girl before a party, it may make it a little more undignified, but hardly much worse than the rest.

Though I think being able to bring down a giant in two seconds makes up for all of that. >.>

Or we could just imagine they are wearing it all, just flipping though the layers to get to the cloak that has just that one spell you need.

It's sorta dumb NWN makes you put something on to activate it. With everything else they allow, *that's* the thing they choose to make a bit more involved? Full armor swaps I might poke a little fun ICly at, but gear I would just assume they are simply activating from their bags.

What does bother me is if people stall a dice roll to swap out skill specific gear. That's at best poor sport cheesiness, and at worst obviously abusing the game systems. I dunno if anything more than community disapproval could be done to deal with it.

In related (and antiquated) rules, I miss Potion Miscibility.

I'm generally a fan of lower magic settings, so I find it a lot easier to play down the magically-induced steroid-popping sprees that are necessary to fight stuff. Going through the effort of properly describing the super speed gear handling and magical mumbling could be fun, especially if you 'accidentally' mess things up, but in my experience most hunting party people are happier when their buffs don't run out before they've actually hit anything.

I don't really mind if people change trinkets and such as long as it is not visual. If my character heads out in public without a full plate, I won't just change to full plate when danger comes around. Neither do I change trinkets and such without emoting it to do skill or ability rolls, but I may do it if pvp is about to happen.

Hee hee

Hey, I've watched bards suddenly strip naked before casting spells and then put their armor back on right before we start hunting >_>

Only two separate people, at least.

I blatantly do the Maxed Eagles + switching Nymph's Cloak for Fort but that's about it - and Andrew acknowledges he has two cloaks. I find it funny more than annoying and absurd when non-casting peasants do it. Besides, it is perfectly reasonable to switch boots, activate them, and switch back while in the midst of a charge.

Those of us who play tabletop would likely frown on all the gear swapping, there just isn't time for all that. I personally can't see it being reasonable for someone to be swapping boots while in the midst of a charge, since you're running and all. I may swap gear preparing for a hunt or dungeon crawl, but rarely in PvP, and never when asked for a dice roll by a DM. NWN makes it easier due to the Quick Slots, but we should all remember this is a role-play server, and I highly recommend to those who have not played tabletop, to give it a try. If anything, just to get the feel of how D&D is played, and the pace of it, as it's mostly in real time. You want to swap those boots? You better sit your ass down and do it, because people are waiting for you.

Given all the other things that take up more time that we have to handwave (like taking two seconds to take a boat from Amia to the Frozenfar), I really don't think this is something we want to start slapping people for.

Kudark I'm with ya on the tabletop thing haha. But yeah I don't want to slap people for it (unless you are going naked while hunting to cast spells, that's just stupid) but you should watch it with DMs around.

I usually don't swap anything unless it's bracers or something simple. And I do it before doing anything anyways.

I must drive you crazy.

Wear a boot on each foot. Yay!

Ohman, I gearswap like you would not believe. It comes from playing Rogues, and having a full quickbar (Or more) of gear.

I have, however, thoroughly enjoyed RPing taking the time out to arrange an entire line of potions and magical trinkets before actually taking them. Setting them on the ground, counting them, etc, etc. Of course, its not so viable in anything but an honorable duel.

Its more a matter of taste, and I would rather reward the people who really roleplay it out well, rather than condemn the people who don't. Especially since we've no ruling, and this is traditionally a server that permits a fair deal of player freedom.

If I see you guys actually roleplaying buffing, or even gear swapping, I'll be sure to award a DC. Just.. don't do it in a condemning way. I've seen people make emotes like, " *Doesn't change into his platemail in two seconds, because that's ridiculous.* " No, I'm more liable to punish you for that.

Gear swapping is weird but really cannot be avoided for the poor non-casters (and frugal casters). Certainly not something worth berating or punishing people for.

A new invention for the speedy fasting of clothing, aptly named ''velcro", after its gnomish inventor Velcro Nobblesnochen the shoe maker, was introduced to the islands of Amia in 1371. It was originally developed to assist dim witted and fat fingered half-orcs fasten their boots without the need to learn the art of tying laces so that Velcro could sell them more of his nifty footwear.

However, velcro was soon developed further by enterprising adventurers when it was discovered that velcro could be attached to any form of worn equipment for quick and easy dressing and undressing during combat. As of 1375, all magical items found on Amia now come fitted with velcro fasteners as standard.

--Velcro on and off that full plate in 2 minutes! Velcro, for all your adventuring needs!--

Mr. Hackums wrote:

a full quickbar (Or more) of gear.

Just one? Flyweight

off topic, I didn't know you could quick slot bags, thanks for letting me know!

Scrolls and potions baby.

While I personally find it ridiculous, and against the spirit of RP, I have to agree that it isn't worth the time, energy, or enmity generated if we tried to enforce rulings against it.

I personally had never considered the possibility of doing that to buff up for combat,because it is so outside the realm of believability. But then, I guess I am just an RP snob.

Nothing unbelievable about it, IMO. As has been pointed out, what it means to "wear" an item (if that is even an IC requirement) is very ambiguous. Having some body part within the outline of the item is probably all a nonsentient magic item would detect, and for that, sticking your hand inside a bag would do just fine. Or you could RP there is some specific trigger, like pressing a button on a brooch or tracing a symbol over some ornament with you finger.

I recall there being something about Drizzt wearing Bracers of Speed on his shins instead of his arms for some reason or another.

Dark Immolation wrote:

I recall there being something about Drizzt wearing Bracers of Speed on his shins instead of his arms for some reason or another.

No, the enchantment is carried by strips of silver metal in the bracers. He removed them, then attached them to his boot bottoms. Voila, boots of running, rather than bracers of quick strikes. +50% movement speed, rather than +1 attack per round, and +4 deflection becomes +4 dodge.

Trinkets like amulet and rings I'm pretty fine with, you can always wear more than just the allowed slot but just say you're only benefiting from 1 amulet and 2 rings passive affects at any time. Cloaks / boots / bracers you can always take out and activate by holding them for a brief moment like in pathfinder, if I recall. As for armour... You can't change that in combat, so if you're worried someone might change into a different set of armour, slap them with a ray of frost to stop that! Otherwise, crafty bards make a tunic that looks exactly like their normal armour to swap into, cast, then swap back so none's the wiser.

I don't think it's something we need rules about. It's just an awkward thing that I wasn't sure how to deal with from an IC perspective. Pretending that people are fondling around in their magic bags or mumbling command words makes it a bit easier to handle. Having identical sets of armor so that you can swap them out and use the buffs on them without anyone noticing is pretty cheesy.. I didn't know people did that. >.>

Maybe it's because I play a mage so I've never had to resort to tricks like that for buffs. It's pretty clever, but still...just feels cheesy to me. I guess it makes sense now that so many people use the Robe of Eyes. I always wondered why beefy melee types were using that as armor.

And I learned something from Ninjaclarinet about bags in your slots!

Dark Immolation wrote:

we got a badass over here

What you don't see in this gif is that he just activated twelve different OnUse items while hasted with all that hand-waving, and its now buffed to the teeth.

Krin wrote:

I don't think it's something we need rules about. It's just an awkward thing that I wasn't sure how to deal with from an IC perspective. Pretending that people are fondling around in their magic bags or mumbling command words makes it a bit easier to handle. Having identical sets of armor so that you can swap them out and use the buffs on them without anyone noticing is pretty cheesy.. I didn't know people did that. >.>

Maybe it's because I play a mage so I've never had to resort to tricks like that for buffs. It's pretty clever, but still...just feels cheesy to me. I guess it makes sense now that so many people use the Robe of Eyes. I always wondered why beefy melee types were using that as armor.

From an IC perspective, depending on the situation if my character saw someone fumbling around with various trinkets in a high tension situation such as a standoff, there's a good chance they're seeing it as a buildup to imminent attack and going to react accordingly.

IronAngel wrote:

Nothing unbelievable about it, IMO. As has been pointed out, what it means to "wear" an item (if that is even an IC requirement) is very ambiguous. Having some body part within the outline of the item is probably all a nonsentient magic item would detect, and for that, sticking your hand inside a bag would do just fine. Or you could RP there is some specific trigger, like pressing a button on a brooch or tracing a symbol over some ornament with you finger.

[Disclaimer: The following post is a sad attempt to reach something of a humorous thought, not something to be butthurt over or taken too seriously. Viewer discretion is adviced. It is not recommended for Gerald Edmund/Bobofwestoregonusa, for he might get some ideas out of it.]
But now you made me curious, if my character who has no UMD tries to shove his/her hand inside a Cloak, in order to "wear" it, but cannot do so due to alignment/class restriction, does this effectively mean I'm levitating the cloak in the air, because my hand cannot be within the boundaries of the item, so it can't fall onto my hand? What about swords? If I can't wield them in my hand, it means I cannot grasp them? If so, how do I loot them?

It only means you can't use the magic on them. Essentially if you have a magic item that you can't use, it functions like a nonmagical version of the same thing. This is why cursed items generally don't have a requirement. People think they're just standard old cloaks or whatever, then BAM! no saves left.

As far as strings of buff on my casters go, it really depends on what I'm playing. A cleric will not endlessly pray litanies, in my eyes, but bless the party with a single rite of appropriate length that happens to include all of whatever he casts in the combined casting duration. For a mage, on the other hand, it really is the individual, learned spell he uses. Sorcerers and bards I emote somewhat in between. How everyone else does it is up to them, of course. It's a simple mechanic that can be roleplayed in a large variety of ways.

Gear swapping is trickier. I'll freely admit I do it, especially when soloing someplace. When I'm on walkabout alone, no one is likely to care what I do and don't do. If it is absolutely -necessary- to gear-swap while in party, I'll usually emote if time allows. That said, sometimes I forget, and sometimes, if things are moving excessively fast, I'll smack out an emote in past tense when the boss is dead about whatever my character was doing the entire time. It's really dependant on inspiration, mood and party dynamic, though. My RP in content is consistent, sure, but not in volume typed. That varies. Sometimes, it's just too hard to come up with the proper words to describe something in what, to me, is a second language. Same holds true in PvP.

In other words, it's a matter of plausibly having the time to do something.

If things are going slow and it can be emoted, plausibly, on how my rogue will use the haphazardly pieced together wind chime of multi-buff by waving its ten-cloak-five-glove-three-boots mass wildly over their head, I'll be more than happy to. If it's raw mechanics and I don't have the time, I won't be able to emote it and would consider it poor form from myself to do the great swapperoo unless I can somehow change conditions and get whomever wants to whack my character out of my face for a while. Same goes if, RPwise, I would not have the time to do action X, like, say, swap out an armour. If I do, or if I have the time to equip my ring of climb and jump +20 before attempting to scale a cliffside in a DM event, expect me to do it. Unless my character is mentally deficient temporarily or permanently. WIS and INT drains happen and mindflayers are just the tip of the nasty critter iceberg.

TLDR: It's all 100% dependant on circumstances IG.

_Cairn Reborn_ wrote:

I'm generally a fan of lower magic settings, so I find it a lot easier to play down the magically-induced steroid-popping sprees that are necessary to fight stuff. Going through the effort of properly describing the super speed gear handling and magical mumbling could be fun, especially if you 'accidentally' mess things up, but in my experience most hunting party people are happier when their buffs don't run out before they've actually hit anything.

In my vast experience of server hopping, there's no such thing at all as a lower magic setting, merely a "low magic item" servers, which means "non-casters suck here" as they can never get reasonable saves or are fighting clerics with greater magic weapons, magic vestments, and mages with epic mage armor and DC 40 wails. :lol:

Such servers are pretty terrible unless you only play casters, more or less.

There's nothing wrong or "cheesy" about gear-swapping to even be worth commenting on. It's against no rules or even mentioned in game books. And before mentioning time for armor changing, keep in mind, no spellcaster here gathers spell components, spends 1/3 of a day doing nothing but resting for spells, or spends 10 min/spell lvl replenishing them afterward.

Plus they cast their spells within 3 or 6 seconds, depending on haste/quicken, and not the full duration of certain spells that take much longer in pnp.

Krin wrote:

How is it handled from an IC perspective? Are we supposed to pretend our characters don't know?

It takes a lot of time and knowledge of the game to collect all the gear necessary to get decently buffed to take down higher level spawns when you are playing a non-caster, especially if don't have UMD. Generally, I respect other players' cleverness and use of knowledge of the game by not getting in their way. I like to let people do what they think they need to do to prepare for a battle without offering a commentary or reaction. If you think role-playing out a reaction to watching someone throw gear on and off and guzzling gallons of potions is fun, then by all means, do it! I personally don't feel like role-playing that out, so I pretend my character(s) doen't notice or care.

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