Make sure you have 18 or 20 Base Dex and 14 wisdom.
AB calculation is as follows; 25 base + 5 GMW = 30 + 14/15 DEX Modifier = 44/45 + Epic prowess = 45/46 + EWF = 48/49 + Attack bonus vs Favoured enemies = 53/54. + Small statue = 54/55 +2 AB In wilderness = 56/57
Remember that you can only dual-wield TINY weapons. Small weapons count as Medium weapons for Kobolds/Halflings and thus you get -4AB from dual-wielding, instead of -2 if you use small weapons.
AC calculation. (+5 GEAR AND SHIELD) (Remember Kobolds cannot use Tower shields) 60.62 with Armor skin. 63 with Dodge + Armor skin
Bonus Feats: At level 1 and 5, the Master Scout can choose a bonus feat from the following lists: Bonus Feat List: Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Toughness Epic Bonus Feat List: Great Strength, Great Constitution, Great Dexterity, Epic Will, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Prowess
Okay build monkeys! I need help. Shocking, I know.
With the new player run version of Alt Beginnings in the UD, I've had a character personality concept for a Drow WM (not a sissy or a whiney "Why are the priestess allowed to boss me around" one either!)
Only problem is, I rarely ever build strength based characters, the +2 ECL and never built a WM either.
I don't know feats, order of feats or what a good spread would be, outside of Fighter/WM. He will be CE.
_________________ Rosie Adenney - The Smiling Red Hin Dalur Illien - Hound of Justice Tria Under - Blunt as Stone
Oh, That's a difficult one... The ECL makes it worse then it helps really. You will never be on par with Surfacers (They will eat you) =/
Strength based? Heavy WM Investment or low WM Investment? I really only recommend DEX WM's for Drow players
My only issue with Dex based WM would be that I'd have to use a weapon available under Weapon Finesse, none of which really tickle my fancy
Rapier would be alright but kind of cheesy. I don't mind being a little weaker than usual but if the +2 ECL will completely gimp me, that's depressing.
_________________ Rosie Adenney - The Smiling Red Hin Dalur Illien - Hound of Justice Tria Under - Blunt as Stone
Sorry. Drow are kinda weak They loose 1-2 Epic feats and 1 feat pre-epic being elven and get -1AB(-2Outdoors during daylight) -1Universal save and -90HP.
It's alright I had an idea that WM were already kind of feat dependent and a +2 would hurt them mightily.
I think I can achieve the same character with a monk heavy build, forgoing WM entirely. Unhanded or Qstaff would suffice and I'd really prefer this character be strength over Dex and WM just isn't feasible.
_________________ Rosie Adenney - The Smiling Red Hin Dalur Illien - Hound of Justice Tria Under - Blunt as Stone
What sort of spread should I go on for a cha based bard/bg?
I was thinking bare min bard and then scamming BG levels, but obviously it's kinda pointless to be 9/19 (drow ??!) or something. 9/21 on the other hand should get all the BG goodies right?
15 is the next highest you go yeah?
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Man, this account is over 10 years old. Where do I get my old man beard?
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
555444333 wrote:
What sort of spread should I go on for a cha based bard/bg?
I was thinking bare min bard and then scamming BG levels, but obviously it's kinda pointless to be 9/19 (drow ??!) or something. 9/21 on the other hand should get all the BG goodies right?
15 is the next highest you go yeah?
I'd make it at least 20 levels of bard and then 8-10 of BG. Go for a bard that takes +10 to saves, AC and damage from BG. High level BG goodies can not compete with bard spells and song.
Final spread should have something like 20+ str 8 dex 10+ con 10 int 12 wis 18 cha
Flip str and dex if you want to go dexterity based. Should work either way.
_________________ Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar Silwe, the elf
( > means what the ability was before and after drow stat boosts, () is showing where level up ability boosts go ) STR: 18 (26) DEX: 11 > 13 CON: 12 > 10 WIS: 10 INT: 12 > 14 CHA: 9 > 11
I'm level 14 (ECL 16) with that build right now and it's doing pretty good.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
( > means what the ability was before and after drow stat boosts, () is showing where level up ability boosts go ) STR: 18 (26) DEX: 11 > 13 CON: 12 > 10 WIS: 10 INT: 12 > 14 CHA: 9 > 11
What sort of spread should I go on for a cha based bard/bg?
I was thinking bare min bard and then scamming BG levels, but obviously it's kinda pointless to be 9/19 (drow ??!) or something. 9/21 on the other hand should get all the BG goodies right?
15 is the next highest you go yeah?
Didn't I send you that build for Human, dammit? How hard can it be to implement that into Drow? And you'll probably be so starved on pre-epic feats that it will actually pay off to sacrifice BG Divvy Juice for Fighter Bonus Feats. I'd imagine Bard20/BG6/Fighter2 to be the wisest pick to opt for, generally arriving at exactly the same point as the Human version, lacking in EWS and such wee negligible perks.
CounterPhobia: Remember that Naivatkl is notorious for his "RP builds"; that is, he invests in WIS and CHA in order for his character to be wise and charismatic. Buildwise, you will benefit from your character being more obnoxious and unwiser.
Yeah I meant to put that in there. However you can only drop CHA by one point, it has to be min 8 before drow bonuses which means your min is a 10 instead of the 11 I had (originally the char was fight/WM/KC but I got rid of that, hence the extra point in there since it made more sense). I concur you can lower WIS to 8 and bump CON to 12 as well.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri::A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn::That which nightmares are made of Khasir::From the East a storm is coming
Question! For a Bard 2/RDD 10/Barbarian 18 what sort of feats would I want to get and when etc? I know the skills and such but I'm lost when it comes to feats and such. Also which is generally better, STR based, or Con?
Listen's good because there are some sneaks who won't pump it, and fewer who take the epic focus. So you can get away with having less than 33 and still have a decent chance to catch someone. It's good for meetings.
Anything less than 33 spot isn't really useful. Dedicated sneaks beat it easily, and even 33 is a long shot without a dedicated gearset unless you have the skill bonus feats (ESF being the best).
I don't know about detect mode, because I seem to only play elves.
Thank you for the quick response! I'd be using TS and gear to bring the listen (most likely now ) to: 85. I know that won't hear everyone, but, will get most, right?
That should get near most everyone, for listen. As said, many don't gear for MS or take the relevant feats! It won't get anyone who actually dedicates to hiding though as they'll be in the 100's (but, a dedicated spotter should catch sneaks with relative ease)
_________________ Signature by Maryn! <3 I am also seen as DM Snuffles.
It's swings and roundabouts for buffing - True Seeing gives you a humble +10, but it's for 90 rounds via fairly common but equipable items.
Amplify gives you a whopping +20, but it only lasts for 5 rounds from very common inventory items.
Clairaudience comes in 10 and 15 round flavours depending on what item, and there's a fair mix of inventory and equipable.
Personally, I go by the 2 hours, 2 rounds rule for such PvP* encounters - plan your gearset as if you'll be unable to buff for two hours because that would trigger hostilities, then you have two rounds at most to get into fighting shape. That kinda means I don't assume any buffs for detect skills, although Listen does have the nice property of 'only' needing +20 of it and then you can max it out for a short time. You've a better chance of fitting +20 Listen onto your saves gearset than most other skills.
*Not necessarily combat, but it's one player's Spot/Listen versus the other's Hide/MS, so even if they're bestest buddies goofing around it's still PvP.
What I discovered recently is that the HiPSing wraiths of the Northern Waste can be instantly re-acquired via Listen if you go into Detect mode as they are retreating from you to shadowdance. They still get their Death Attack on you since they're technically Invisible, but since you're not in flatfoot and they have bobbins for AB, they don't actually hit much. Whether this means Listen has actually been of genuine combat use against PC HiPSers for all these years I've decried it as Spot's wannabe annoying kid brother, I do not yet know, but I am interested to find out.
Ok... Have a char that will have expertise. Str based cleric that will get 54-55 AC plus haste and expertise. I have one feat left before epic. Should I take imp expertise, power attack, or.... Craft wand? Have focus, imp crit, extend spell, expertise, toughness already.
When you detect someone using listen, they remain detected even if they try to HiPS again. Which is a pretty neat trick that I'm sure a lot of listen folks will get mad at me for tellin'.
The downside is that you get one roll per round, as opposed to spot's six rolls.
But if you're really savvy with the gear swapping, you can detect someone with Listen, then swap out to more favorable gear while still detecting the shadowdancer.
Ok... Have a char that will have expertise. Str based cleric that will get 54-55 AC plus haste and expertise. I have one feat left before epic. Should I take imp expertise, power attack, or.... Craft wand? Have focus, imp crit, extend spell, expertise, toughness already.
Thanks for any advice!
Craft wand. Your AB when fully-buffed should be good enough to take the -5 hit from standard power attack/expertise in some situations, but drop it another five and you're pretty much wasting your time. And your rounds/level buffs. I don't even like using power attack because dropping AB means less confirmed crits, which diminishes the extra 5 damage (but proper builders would probably disagree with me, and I don't really do the maths). I prefer higher AB. Some classes might be able to pull off Imp Expertise but I don't think it's good for clerics.
Craft wand gives you access to death ward wands and with the right domains some other pretty good spells too. Very popular on the market, and useful for saving spell slots. I'd easily recommend it over your other choices. Wait - where's your Blind Fight?
It's really important, essential really. You reduce your miss chance to hit concealed creatures and reduce your chance of getting hit by opponents coming out of stealth. It's not a subtle difference.
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
If a True Neutral character was to take DD levels to become a brass dragon, at what level of DD would they need to look at getting an alignment change? Also.... at what point do you need a DM to change your DD type?
Another question.... what if said character took... 2 DD levels? (I have RP reasons in mind), would they need an alignment change at all and would a DM need to change anything or can they just be Brass (being that they would have no outward mechanical effects to say otherwise)? I realize they have barely dipped their toes into the DD pool, but they do have some heritage and would have taken steps to awaken it.
I'm looking at this (12/16/2) in comparison to the 20/7/3 Weapon Master. Is there anything to improve upon? Fairly staved for feats, so there's no Epic Prowess, but I still get an extra +1 AB over the other build. It's a human base using a longsword.
My level 30 pure sorc has Epic Spell Penetration and Combat Casting right now. Are those feats useful at all? It seems like the only ones that can resist spells are Monks that are built to do it. They resist just about everything, so I feel like I've wasted 3 feats for spell penetration.
The Combat Casting just feels useless because if anything ever gets close enough to hit him, it's going to hit him. If it's a melee char, it's going to kill him. He only has like 20 AC fully buffed and he has crappy saves all around... so.. I feel like not getting a penalty to concentration checks wouldn't help much either way.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Combat Casting could probably go, if you have high enough Concentration. It only affects Defensive Casting, so unless it is adding something particular to your RP or going to be used in a future request, it probably could stand to go.
With 30 and Greater Spell Pen, you're going to automatically bypass any Arcane Defense item.
Quote:
d20 + caster level + spell penetration vs. SR
A pure monk's SR without additional feats would be 40. With only Greater Pen, you would have to roll a 6 or more to beat their SR. With Epic Spell Pen, you have to roll a 4 or more. So Odds are, you're going to beat their SR anyway. It could be worth keeping, but I don't see you hurting for much if you wanted to switch it out for another Epic Spell or Focus. If your AC is as low as you say it is, then Epic Mage Armor is probably a beneficial choice.
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
So, planewalking Air Genasi Gnome, jack-of-all-trades wizard (alchemist/inventor/herbalist, probably).
10 Str 10 Dex 14 Con (20) 28 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha
1/19 Rog/Wiz going 3/27. (Maybe better idea to go 20-> 29/1!? Less skills and no Evasion, but one more epic feat.)
Craft Wand Empower Extend Maximize Skill Focus: Spot (Dunno if necessary, what else is good?) Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus: Illusion, Enchantment, Evocation
Epic Spell Focus: Illusion, Enchantment, Evocation EMA EMD Great Int I Epic Skill Focus: Spot
Does this work? Skills would be in Listen, Spot, Hide, MS, Concentration, Spellcraft, UMD, Tumble, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon (for mythalling and overall versatility). Lacks Lore, which is problematic. Gonna skim some from the craft skills I guess. Discipline is absolutely not worth it cross-classed, I take it?
Am I missing must-have feats, especially pre-epic? Three epic spell foci is kinda overdoing it, but I wouldn't want to drop any. The Spot Focus could go into another metamagic if needed for book management, or something else?
Epic Focus in illusion is somewhat redundant, since it's just good for Color Spray and Mass Blind/Deaf, and the latter is same level as Sunburst - which I also have an epic focus in. But it's a gnome, man, and I was thinking of maybe in the distant future if this character works, requesting some custom spells. (Apparently you can't go over 50% concealment in NWN - that would have been a lucrative opportunity otherwise.)
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
So, planewalking Air Genasi Gnome, jack-of-all-trades wizard (alchemist/inventor/herbalist, probably).
1/19 Rog/Wiz going 3/27. (Maybe better idea to go 20-> 29/1!? Less skills and no Evasion, but one more epic feat.)
Why not 28/2? Also, if 27 wizard levels are enough for you, 27/ Rogue 2/ Ranger 1 gives a free Epic Spell Focus (Cheesomancy) and even more cheese with great class skills and proficiencies.
Pre-epic: Seems standard. Still/Silent are possible, but you should have good spells on all levels.
Epic on 27/2/1 allows Great INT 3: 3 Wizard feats, 4 general, 1 Ranger: Great INT 3, EMA, EMD, 3x ESF.
It's plus 1 DC, which is always nice. You could drop an ESF to fit Epic Spot in there again.
Regards Ts
PS: Ranger is not cheese ... umm, you, that herbalist thing, those herbs grow outdoors, so ... ranger!
Oh, I guess I was just remembering Rogue 3 as a milestone from when I built some melee characters. The additional Sneak die and Uncanny Dodge being pretty good. But yeah, neither of them are that big a deal for a wizard. 28/2 probably isn't worth it, though, since it costs me an epic feat (Wiz 29). The 27/2/1 version has the same number of feats as 29/1. I guess it boils down to skill points. Even if I go ranger, I don't seem to have points to spare in Discipline and AE with the current distribution. But then, Trackless Step is pretty sweet for a sneaker regardless (and the class really does fit the concept of a wandering traveler).
Is Skill Focus: Spot too much, though? I get size bonus to Hide/MS, so I guess I don't need to focus on them further.
The 27/2/1 version suffers a multiclass penalty pretty much from creation, which is something I may have to consider.
Can any designers say whether Epic Focus in Illusion is going to be useful in the near future, or are the spells to be added to the school (if any) more in the line of utility, without DCs? I am not sure if I am willing to devote one pre-epic and one epic feat just to represent an archetype, with no practical benefit.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
To add to the above: What would be the most useful pre-epic spare feat, overall? These are the ones that seem available and relevant: Skill Focus in Spot or Hide Stealthy/Alertness Brew Potion (how useful is it for arcane spells, when I have wands?) Great Fort, Lightning Reflexes (assuming Evasion), Iron Will Resist Energy (which actually stacks with items and might be cool, if situational) Spell Focus: Conjuration (DC for Greater Planar Binding and Evard's, plus the RP of tinkering with portals) Spell Penetration Toughness Silent/Still Spell (not inclined, since so many good spells on each level) Luck of Heroes
What of EMA? How useful is it, actually, for a mage who is not supposed to fight in melee? I don't want the epic damage spells, but could I also drop EMA for that Epic Spot? I imagine it could be a lifesaver when I do get caught, though. I don't have experience of mage PvM from recent years, let alone PvP.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
He doesn't suffer a multi-classing penalty if he specializes in one class. Only WHEN he decides to multiclass will his XP be penalized.(In your case after level 20)
To expand on the build; A wizard's essential 'Feats' are as follow in the order of priority. (Gnome)
1 - Extend spell 2 - Maximize Spell 3 - Empower Spell 4 - Still (So you can wear armour) or Silent. 5 - X spell focus 6 - ??? (Brew Potion recommended for quick true strike gold) 7 - ??? (Craft wand recommended for quick gold) Wizard Extra - X greater spell focus Wizard Extra - Y spell focus Wizard Extra - Y greater spell focus
Regarding spell penetration; Only when and If you choose to battle Drow, Monks or creatures with insane high spell resistance (Maximum Any Mob on amia has is 32) do you need spell penetration. Spell penetration also exists on Items in easily accessible locations. Spell penetration really only counts when your caster levels is below 25
Tips and tricks
Most wizards take their caster level 20 in epic, instead of pre-epic, to give them an extra epic-feat instead of a pre-epic feat. In layman's terms that means that you take 1 level of rogue as your 20:th level and your 20:th wizard level as your 21:th epic level, giving you an extra feat.
Essential Epic feats (Minimum 26 wizard, Level 20 wizard taken on level 21)
If I take more than 1 level of rogue, isn't it a no-brainer to take the first level at creation? That's 24 skillpoints (6x4) - almost an entire skill maxed.
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On Joon, Kjetta wrote:
The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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) to: 85. I know that won't hear everyone, but, will get most, right?
