AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Before I get started, I am not attempting to advocate any sort of change, this is more an exercise of curiosity...

I have been studying up on halflings on this server, as I consider building one in the near future. As I looked at the subraces, I was blown away by the stronghearts. They have several big bonuses, pushing them into a +2 ECL situation. I will admit I have not been playing NWN long, but I have an extensive history of PnP, pretty much all in the FR setting.

My question is this: why did strongheart halflings divert so far from their PnP counterparts? In 3/3.5 edition FR campaign setting, the only difference between stronghearts and lightfeet was essentially a feat swap. All lightfeet get the +1 on all saves. Stornghearts lose that "feat" and instead get the opportunity to select a bonus feat of their choice at 1st level.

I am curious why this server made such a drastic change?

No clue. It's been like that since I've been here and one of my first pcs was a Strongheart.

The answer has probably been lost in history, but judging from the stats, it might involve someone in a position of power wanting to make a really powerful custom race for their character.

Silvarus wrote:

The answer has probably been lost in history, but judging from the stats, it might involve someone in a position of power wanting to make a really powerful custom race for their character.

lol!

It is true they are powerful though ^^ But so are genasi, and they don't have a ECL+2 penalty

Could also be it was to entice people to play halflings? I'm curious about this too ^^

I'm guessing there was a lot of demand or desire to be able to make a viable Strength-based midget, since in the past Dev Crit was basically a mandatory feat unless you had HiPS in your bag of tricks and halflings could never really qualify for that with their -2 STR. The fact they get +2 AC (and are unable to use Tower Shields) and get +5 Discipline kind of supports this thought. As well as the fact their favoured class is Fighter, while in DnD it's Rogue.

I prefer a regular hin for my str based devcritters though. Those 2 levels are nice.

Good points Guano..

The discipline bonus doesn't even cover the small size (they get bonuses to knock you/ will often have a bigger weapon in hand gaining bonuses with disarm) and 2 level penalty (-2 penalty to discipline).

However, their +2 str adjustment is what warrants their ecl adjustment, very easily ^^ It does not just add +2 str, it gives them the strength adjustment of an halforc by nullifying the halfling penalty. If you start with 16 str (max a lightfoot can start) it sends you at 20 once you activate the race bonuses (the max a halforc can start at creation)

But hey, 2 less levels mean they lose out on 1 or 2 feats, which also lowers their saves / AB / hp

Still pretty curious to have an official answer!

Mushidoz wrote:

Good points Guano..

The discipline bonus doesn't even cover the small size (they get bonuses to knock you/ will often have a bigger weapon in hand gaining bonuses with disarm) and 2 level penalty (-2 penalty to discipline).

However, their +2 str adjustment is what warrants their ecl adjustment, very easily ^^ It does not just add +2 str, it gives them the strength adjustment of an halforc by nullifying the halfling penalty. If you start with 16 str (max a lightfoot can start) it sends you at 20 once you activate the race bonuses (the max a halforc can start at creation)

But hey, 2 less levels mean they lose out on 1 or 2 feats, which also lowers their saves / AB / hp

Still pretty curious to have an official answer!

Don't forget the +4 STR from RDD levels and 3 Great Strength feats. :twisted:

With the +7 you get from levels, that's +14 STR

48 STR with gear/buffs, Modifier 19 \o/ Halflings with their short, stocky arses and flat, huge feet share the number 1 spot for STR potential! Now, let's make those 48 STR Halflings who can bench-press 19,200 lbs. :twisted:

They got added years ago in The Big Subrace Update that also added the human subraces that have been regretted ever since.

The team as a whole was much less lore savvy than they are now/in recent years.

I have always valued your posts, Tormak; you are increasingly hard to find.

Do you know of any plans to address the subraces? Add/subtract/rebalance, based on current day lore expectations and what-have-you? Is that even possible without breaking everyone on the server? This isn't the topic for it, but if I get a lead I'll head on over and make a new thread based on it or go to Improving Amia should I have a suggestion.

Oh geez, that's not something I'd know anymore.

Mussing with the subraces does mean you'll break a lot of stuff over your knee though. You'd have to go through and rebuild every single (X) subrace on the server. For Genasi it was a bit easier, you simply tripped the trigger and ding, they could level up. It's different when you're altering the stats. You have to rebuild everyone from scratch becuse it affects everything. It's probably not worth it, imo.

Fixing RDD totally was, though. Even though rebuildageddon was awful.

I am still miffed by how the Planetouched subraces were added to human and not exclusively to half-elf, so they get the bonus feats and other human-exclusive goodies in addition to the subrace bonuses.

Any race can take em, not just human.

Yes. I was being unclear with that. It applies to other races than humans too, though the bonus feat is the worst offender. I am of the opinion that half-elf is the best platform for all planetouched since it has fairly irrelevant bonuses of its own. It's too late to change that however.

Thanks for weighing in Tormak. I appreciate hearing a little of how it got so crazy. Like I said though, I am not looking to change things as I know it would be a total shitstorm.

Strongheart Hin

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