AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Hello folks!

I miss the old days of the Eternal Order. Announce your presence in this thread if you might be persuaded to help me restore the Kelemvorite faith to its former glory.

Some people have told me that the old Kellie style would not fit in the current sugar and rainbows atmosphere of the server. Even though I find this preposterous, I am open to the idea of creating a Kellie subgroup within an established power such as Kohlingen instead of an a power all on if such might be viewed as more prudent.

For now, I could easily see Kelemvorites guarding, patrolling and maintaining the various graveyards on the islands. For example the graveyard in Cordor has STILL not been Hallowed, an affront so unholy it almost calls for divine retribution against the worthless clerics who loiter in Cordor without getting anything done. We could fix that. This might also make for decent PR compared to the usual burning of heretics 24/7. Don't get me wrong though, there is still no reason to leave necromancers uncharred or undead unliving, and Tarkuul still definitely needs to be destroyed. A bit more variety to the Kelemvorite RP would nevertheless be welcome.

What say ye, my zealous brethren?

Here is the old info thread from way back when: viewtopic.php?p=872531

Some practical concerns: Gagis would prefer to be an advisor to a mortal leader, rather than officially leading himself. It's against the Outsider etiquette to directly work themselves where sponsoring mortal heroes from the sidelines would do instead. The Kelemvorites have traditionally had a shortage of surviving leader figures however. It's a dangerous job where most do not live to a ripe old age necessary for leadership.

EDIT: More concerns. Building the faction headquarters in Nes'ek was the worst idea ever. The Order should move, as it attempted to do at the time of the beginning of its decline. I vote for rebuilding in Benwick's Hollow!

There is but one true god for the dead! Good luck however

Silvarus wrote:

Some people have told me that the old Kellie style would not fit in the current sugar and rainbows atmosphere of the server.

...

I'm sorry, did I imagine the whole thing with children being drug out of their beds in the middle of the night, then dissected and strung up like hogs in the Skull Crags?

In any case, I welcome the return of the Kellies, if only to continue being the Eldar to their Spersh Merangs.

While I have no intention to revive my kelly days (sorry, but one main and one alt are quite enough for me), I thought I would give my input on three aspects. Though I gladly help out with Rob. He is after all also a faithful of Kelemvor, even though it is not his patron deity.

Like you said, the location in Khem was a really really bad decision. While it made sense at the time, even if in naive way, it has sidelined the faction incredibly. So getting it back to amia is a pretty essential goal, and the return should be focused on amia island. That will require you to get back to a faction size and at least two months of activity, but having goals is a good thing.

Work on fiding a new proper identity and purpose. The old style can be an inspiration, but it is important you tie it neatly into the world and find your own interpredation. There are an abundance of things I would have done differently, and you should not be afraid to do so yourself. Most of the inarcantions that came post-Sharina had little creativity, and often were a two-dimensional portrayl of a single, though prominent, part of the old style. While not neccesarily bad roleplay, consideration will need to be put in in how to strip old baggage and get back trust and influence. That is something that also is a nice thing to have ic, as it again creates roleplay and gives you a goal to work towards.

Finally, place more focus on the faith as a whole. You will want to have kelemvorites who hold cermons, conduct burials and comfort the mourning. It makes it more interresting as a whole. So getting the kellies back, not just the EO, would be a good way to go about it.

My Doomguide William Marshal is currently levelling through a rebuild and although I am wary of joining any faction with any of my characters I am particularly wary of the Enteral Order given its chequered past, some of which I witnessed for myself ICly back in the day.

I cannot say how much of that old stuff was to do with players being disgruntled OOCly or else having some IC issue of corruption or whatever to make them act as they did, summoning undead and using finger of death spells on innocent old men who were merely sitting in the EO Church praying quietly.

Who knows its water long past under the bridge, and that all said I would be interested in seeing where this goes and if my character might if not join at least have contact with any EO resurgence.

I'm not sure if I agree that the location is bad. It is what you make of it. The Kellie Temple, in my opinion, is by far the coolest PC faction base by looks and theme. You guys have more than enough room to make things happen there.

I would honestly, honestly suggest trying to make that work again, before you go exploring rebuilding the old temple. It's not a good look to seem like the faction has given up on all the dev work that went into it, simply because it isn't in the middle of the current clusterfuck of Amia A. You can still ride out and do your inquisitions wherever, but even the mightiest of the Emperor's--sorry, Kelemvor's warriors need a place to stretch out their legs. Considering the Order's tendency to butt heads and make enemies with other groups, I don't see why a base out of the general way of things is a bad thing.

VitalTouch wrote:

I cannot say how much of that old stuff was to do with players being disgruntled OOCly or else having some IC issue of corruption or whatever to make them act as they did, summoning undead and using finger of death spells on innocent old men who were merely sitting in the EO Church praying quietly.

Uh, doesn't sound like something that would have been in line with any iteration of the Order in any period of its history.

For most part the racy reputation of the order is more based on IC rumours and propaganda than on a really existing level of viciousness. It was always a faction with paladins and LG and LN clerics after all.

As long as you hold the reins i can support you - My drow takes precedence, but when you need me online i will be there. If events collide i will prioritise the drow. :mrgreen:

I could be tempted to wade in with a newb.

In Soviet Kohlingen, magician burns paladin.

*Builds a Paladin/sorcerer* :mrgreen:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Considering the Order's tendency to butt heads and make enemies with other groups, I don't see why a base out of the general way of things is a bad thing.

One of the problems with playing in the Order back in the day was that there were no neighbours to easily interact with. Things were always awesome when multiple members were on and all kinds of amazing group activities could be started, but a single EO member usually had nothing to do alone. Being near Kohlingen and/or giving each member a different graveyard to be responsible of gives Kellies a reason to interact with other factions in other times than when the Order is marching for some nefario-- *cough* charitable purpose. I suppose one of the reasons behind the reputation was that Kellies were never seen anywhere except when they were on the way to pick a fight with someone.

The area itself is as awesome as they get though. Can't disagree with that. Maybe one day we will see the same interior attached to a suitably pomopus exterior in a location where people might actually find it convenient to come and hold burials or seek counsel about afterlife-related questions there. Right now it is in an area without a large enough population to serve,

Silvarus wrote:

VitalTouch wrote:

I cannot say how much of that old stuff was to do with players being disgruntled OOCly or else having some IC issue of corruption or whatever to make them act as they did, summoning undead and using finger of death spells on innocent old men who were merely sitting in the EO Church praying quietly.

Uh, doesn't sound like something that would have been in line with any iteration of the Order in any period of its history.

For most part the racy reputation of the order is more based on IC rumours and propaganda than on a really existing level of viciousness. It was always a faction with paladins and LG and LN clerics after all.

I can't for the life of me remember his name but there was a particular EO member and a second EO accomplice whose antics I was alluding to in my post.

It happened, I was there, I saw it. So not sure what you are implying here but for me its a matter of fact.

At the time I didn't make a video of it or print fifty screen shots of the chatter but I was there and another player who is a RL friend of mine was the old man character in question.

If you wish to ICly deny it happened that's a matter to be dealt with ICly by the concerned characters (not that this is likely as the characters concerned are not afaik active anymore and anyway its ancient water under the bridge), not sure I'm happy at being basically called an OOC liar though...

Yeah nooo ...

Last edited by Silvarus on Thu, Mar 13 2014, 15:31 PM, edited 4 times in total.

I was objecting to you implying that that was the norm for the EO, which it definitely was not. I have no idea if that has happened or not, but it definitely would not have been in line with how the faction operates in any period of its history. Especially with the summoning undead part in the cathedral, it would have been hard to explain how that character would have avoided getting permakilled then and there. Wanton murder is pretty damn henerical as well. Therefore you definitely can not claim that that is normal for how the EO did things in the past.

This sounds like a case that should have been handled with DM supervision back then, or even handled IC with the EO characters superiors.

To get to the bottom of that mystery, you may have to subject VitalTouch to an inquisition!

We call it questioning - They call it anal probing!

Personally I hope you find success in this endeavor. I've felt for a long while that the Kelemvorites belong "closer to home" either in Kohlingen or near it in their own enclave if you will would be best suited. As others have pointed out, you will face a lot of IC stigma based on the last few attempted reincarnations of the Eternal Order specifically (which I do not equate directly to the Kelemvorite faith) and even a bit of OOC stigma here and there perhaps. But I do recall Gagis from my first couple months here on Amia when I was playing Mathias Taern as my main and I was always left with a good impression of the character.

So here's to hoping you find success!

Actually the "Kelemvorite" killing people in the church did happen once or twice. Iirc, it was one of our many enemies that kept pretending to be a Kelly, even had a complete copy of the armor style and such. Cleric of Bane if memory serves.

However, like our former illustrious leader, I cannot dedicate time to another char on a regular basis. Not as long as I'm running one of the Kohl factions anyway. I would love to have the old gang get together at least once or twice at least.. if only for nostalgia's sake.

Silvarus wrote:

...getting permakilled then and there.

I'm interested

Silvarus wrote:

Therefore you definitely can not claim that that is normal for how the EO did things in the past.

Have never said any such thing.

Gravemaskin wrote:

Actually the "Kelemvorite" killing people in the church did happen once or twice. Iirc, it was one of our many enemies that kept pretending to be a Kelly, even had a complete copy of the armor style and such. Cleric of Bane if memory serves.

That would be fair enough however the example I am referring did not involve an IC enemy of the order and it was in fact an old mage of mystra (this was not known at the time) who had been sitting in the church until some perfunctory questioning by the EO knights. After that the old man was manhandled out of the church he was pursued all the way back to Amia forest by I think two or three EO knights and at least one undead summon but it was the finger of death that killed the old man.

I was playing on a now inactive paladin char at the time and was present in the church all the way to the end.

So whilst I am not saying this is typical it was a big deal at the time to those who witnessed it, regarding the DM intervention I was newish to the server back then and had not had any dealings with the DMs at that point and I just took it as IC actions.
I did later hear an IC rumour that the main EO knight at the centre of all this was later to be found to be ICly corrupt but I stopped playing for a while and lost track of it all.

Anyway I am still interested to see what any new incarnation of the EO will do, and whether any of it would ICly be of interest to my Doomguide and his goals.

I have the hardest time believing the part about an undead summon, especially now that you mention there having been other Kelemvorites as witnesses.

Do you remember which characters those were? I am getting really curious about what might have actually happened. Too bad we don't have access to our old criminal records right now.

It's all IC, there's absolutely no point hashing this out OOC. If such has happened, we're all happy it's become a living rumour. It would be kewl to face prejudice and hearsay again. I can even remember some instances where the truth never came out OOC or IC and that is the ideal environment to play an inquisitor.

Silvarus wrote:

I have the hardest time believing the part about an undead summon, especially now that you mention there having been other Kelemvorites as witnesses.

Well I can only state the facts as I witnessed them, as I said I didn't take any screen shots or call for a DM etc at the time I just treated it as IC actions. It wasn't until I started looking into Kelemvor in more detail much later that I realised what a strange order of events it was.

Silvarus wrote:

Do you remember which characters those were? I am getting really curious about what might have actually happened. Too bad we don't have access to our old criminal records right now.

I'm afraid I don't the event has stuck in my mind as have other conflicts worthy of note, but it was a long time ago and neither myself of the mage can recall the name of the main agitator or his associates.

I can understand how you would be reluctant to accept what is being said without tangible evidence sadly I can't go back years and get it after the fact when at the time it didn't seem like anything OOCly was wrong to warrant screenshots. It was only later as my experience on the server grew and my knowledge of Kelemvor lore increased that I began to realise just how bad it was then.

but as I've said the event was IC knowledge for a character that has been long inactive and of course none of my active characters know any of this ICly and so have almost no idea what the EO is as they just haven't been visible in the time frame these characters have been active.

I truly look forward to what the EO will do next

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

It's all IC, there's absolutely no point hashing this out OOC. If such has happened, we're all happy it's become a living rumour. It would be kewl to face prejudice and hearsay again. I can remember many cases where the truth never came out OOC or IC and that is the ideal environment to play an inquisitor.

There are problems when OOC rumours and prejudice dominate over just about anything that might happen IC. At times this has applied to the EO. Like when spesific cases become the first thing to be mentioned in a thread about the EO.

Also, I kinda suspect the "undead" mentioned above might have been the then death and now repose domain summon, which is not undead but an Outsider from Kelemvor's domain.

Let's just trust their judgment and not give a damn about what goes on OOC?

Silvarus wrote:

There are problems when OOC rumours and prejudice dominate over just about anything that might happen IC. At times this has applied to the EO. Like when spesific cases become the first thing to be mentioned in a thread about the EO.

Unfortunately IC actions have IC repercussions and these inevitably become part of any OOC discussion, regardless of faction.

Silvarus wrote:

Also, I kinda suspect the "undead" mentioned above might have been the then death and now repose domain summon, which is not undead but an Outsider from Kelemvor's domain.

It was a mummy summoned with create greater undead, I am happy for you to ICly wish to deny anything ever happened, without any evidence from something so long ago I would not expect anything else.

But please don't mistake me being new to Amia at that point but I was not new to D&D or NWN

In any case I keep trying to get off the topic and back to how I am looking forward to seeing what the EO are going to get up to now and if you don't want to continue this discussion because it might cause OOC prejudice or whatever lets move on?

Screw the rainbows and pink floating hearts!
Shall I light the Pyre my liege?

Silvarus wrote:

Tarkuul still definitely needs to be destroyed.

We really could use some practice fodder. :twisted:

Maybe trying to relocate back to Kohlingen to get better RP chances with other factions/people. I'm not ashamed to say the original move from Kohlingen to Benwick was started by myself because back then there were some very prominent asswipes in Kohlingen who immediately made things into an OOC hatefest, and I couldn't stand that day in, day out.

Nowadays though, it could work, and would perhaps attract the other types of faithful so you could get that larger faction chain going, not just the EO part.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Silvarus wrote:

Tarkuul still definitely needs to be destroyed.

We really could use some practice fodder. :twisted:

I'll set up the tea and crumpets.

You might be better focusing on more than just the EO , Kelemvor is a lot more than Undead hunting/Hating much as I know that persistant Death on Amia is not an often occurance for PCs.

Look very carefully at the Dogma and find opporutinities in it to make your mark.

While that is true, the whole approach of the EO works very well I think in our persistent world community. To be the stereotypical Kelemvorite faith would be interesting, yes, but as a central or primary focus lacks the rich controversy the Eternal Order brings to the table with their intense and narrow focus. Individual characters who play your standard Kelemvorite in small doses make excellent foils for the Eternal Order as a faction, displaying just how the EO observes the whole of the dogma but dedicates itself to the accomplishment of one holy task: rooting out the undead and all things and peoples associated with the undead.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say that any new EO has to give up the whole “My shield is disgust, my sword is hatred” theme. I actually quite liked the violent zeal they went at their duties with. Whether that is an accurate reflection of core Kelemvorite dogma or not, it was interesting to be a part of, on either side. To be honest, the current buddy-buddy state of most Good clergy in Amia proper could use a little stirring up, IMO. Even the celestials argue about zeal vs mercy, if you look at Warriors of Heaven. Don't see why clergy on Toril, even if they have some of the same end goals, couldn't fight a little more between themselves about the methods to that end.

In regards to the killing thing, Grymia is largely right, but I don't believe that constitutes looking at a less zealous approach. The first answer for anyone on Amia when there is a disagreement seems to be to kill a PC. Period. Insult my mum? Kill you. Worship a god that hates my god? Kill you. There are intermediate steps, people, even if the person you beat is the bane of your existence. Ones that foster more RP and make your PC appear a little more organic to a world where people generally have to interact with people vastly different from them on a pretty regular basis.

So my suggestion if the EO comes back is to keep that same vigor. That's cool and I have always enjoyed the grimdark elements it brings in. But try new approaches in dealing with your heretics. If you have seen in the past that burning people doesn't lead to them staying dead as often as you'd like, or if they do come back, changing their ways, well reform them, dammit. We still have a 24 hour capture law; do some real inquisitions. Pull out the thumb screws, heat up the Pears of Anguish. The few inquisitorial sessions my PC sat in on--in defense of the heretic--always seemed rather tame and wasted from an IC and RP standpoint.

Dark Immolation wrote:

To be honest, the current buddy-buddy state of most Good clergy in Amia proper could use a little stirring up, IMO.

...You rang??

I LOVE killing paradoxical 'good guys' who continuously mistake their evil action for 'zealous, righteous behavior'

PLEASE bring EO back! I'll be in Tarkuul, sharpening my blade... :twisted:

Not wholly persuaded to join any faction, but Victor has already made a return trying to do something more Kelemvorite based, rather than Space Marine based. Maybe we should meet up in game sometime, Silv.

If I had any motivation to play, I'd like to play my Kellie again.

I Dargon Doomspeaker will devote myself to the aid of the Kelemvorites should such be needed.

I am a fallower of Jergal, that being said I was part of a well know organization of the church before my lords fall.

Companions of the Pallid Mask, as such I was charged with the combating of undead as I lacked the wickedness of my brethren to command them. I fallow a very selective portfolio of my lord. Now I have proclaimed myself a Doom scribe, I do not hide my faith as some do but rather embrace it.

The aspects of my lord that I server are as fallows.
Proper burial, every person whom I record in passing should have the right of there soul being laid to rest.
Guardian of tombs, Every person properly buried has the right to nay be risen.
Protector of the names of the dead, all who have passed should be remembered.

I am an undertaker by profession, My features though some what ghastly are that of a wood elf with a feytouched troll blood father.

Should the church require aid seek me out in Wilton I often go skeletal knight slaying and bury bodies of the brave fallen I find in the graveyard. As my lord servers Kelemvor I shall server his church.

Sincerely,
Dargon Doomspeaker.

Used to have a Kellie and he's actually the namesake of my account! But after I was told he was on the fast track to being fallen because he was acting more LN than LG (Being a Paladin), I gave up on him and joined Team Tarkuul!

I could play a Kellie again though, even if only to fill in the void when having nothing to do on my main.

Infernal_Pain wrote:

Maybe trying to relocate back to Kohlingen to get better RP chances with other factions/people. I'm not ashamed to say the original move from Kohlingen to Benwick was started by myself because back then there were some very prominent asswipes in Kohlingen who immediately made things into an OOC hatefest, and I couldn't stand that day in, day out.

They just have different names now... Ulrik and Robert are wiping each other all day long, I hear. :twisted:

They have baseborn servants to do that.

I'm interested! Looking at killing off my main, probably and could use a fresh character.

Gagis is probably going to have a talk with Mourngrym tomorrow, after which there will probably be IC invites for a grand meeting of members of the faith.

Burningoutbright wrote:

I'm interested! Looking at killing off my main, probably and could use a fresh character.

AAAA NO I'M COMING BACK TO SAVE HER LIFE OVER AND OVER AND FOREVER

TormakSaber wrote:

Burningoutbright wrote:

I'm interested! Looking at killing off my main, probably and could use a fresh character.

AAAA NO I'M COMING BACK TO SAVE HER LIFE OVER AND OVER AND FOREVER

That sounds like filthy necromancy!

Purge it with fire!

Imagine it only took one forum post for about seven people to raise their support and want to return

imagine what some IC interaction can do.

I like the idea of bringing back that old time religion.

We only miss herra tutteri and his PC Daren sten. Otherwise all the old guys are there.. Phearnun in another form of course, but essentially the same.

Let's take our clerics and earthquake in unison! (Drow pun)

Bringing back the Kelemvorites

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