AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Glim wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

6) Being overly concerned with epic dungeons is silly. Rather than bitching about there being to few, come up with some idea's for the development team to make more epic dungeons that fit into Amia's canon.

Actually I have six new ones already planned out and three redesigns planned out. Don't really need more ideas, just need to clone myself

Hazzle the playerbase again for more developers! :mrgreen:

Kamina wrote:

I'd like to pose a question in general: Do you personally view hunting/dungeon running/grinding an mainly IC or OOC thing? If you pick either there's no wrong here.

Totally IC, and I try to RP them, but I may get bored and go silent eventually and start to party chat.

As long as there is something I can work with that my character would deal with, I go on with it. Certain kobold is pretty martial and I love depicting how awesome he is in combat, and analyzing other characters as well to get some sort of conversation going while slashing, which ends up in commentaries like "See, I was once a gladiator too. It happened it GOOD-BLOODY-CORDORDIEDIEDIEDIEALREADY but it didn't lasted long, you see, I had to DUCK! *sprays a lot of acid around*... a lot of blows..." and that sort of dialog, but it varies greatly depending my mood.

But as said, eventually the grinding may become boring and I can't keep Ais' overwhelming personality going on endlessly, so I just go gradually silent IC, or limit myself to emotes to describe motions and the style, while most of the conversation may or may not happen in the party chat or fending off one of my many fans by tells.

Kamina wrote:

I'd like to pose a question in general: Do you personally view hunting/dungeon running/grinding an mainly IC or OOC thing? If you pick either there's no wrong here.

Totally ic as well.

I try to emote and rp when in a group as it makes the hunting that much more enjoyable for me (and less of a grind.)
When alone its still ic to me but I dont emote a lot ussually, I don't like hunting alone much though and ussually quit after one dungeon and do something else or log. When I run into someone that changes ofcourse.

Despite playing a sneak I'm not really cool with leaving spawns behind. You never know how late a group will be and waiting for the respawns can be a huge pain, especially for potion-dependent classes. I don't care for serial bosshunters but I feel for the lowbies who want to level, so I prefer to just clear them.

Besides I can't solo any of the bosses anymore anyway >_>

Kamina wrote:

I'd like to pose a question in general: Do you personally view hunting/dungeon running/grinding an mainly IC or OOC thing? If you pick either there's no wrong here.

I ask this mainly because I think it's to do with the mentality here. If a newbie joins the game, wants to level up but is greeted to either people wanting them to OOC hurry up with saying/doing something IC like *Looks to the Goblin's corpse, at the Heavy Flail it just dropped on to the floor.* "I never knew such a small being could hold such a thing! The last time I saw one of these was way back when I..." and so on, OR they may have the opposite where they want people to OOC hurry up when IC things go on.

If newer players are taught dungeons are mostly OOC, they risk breaking the rules such as camping spawns, running ahead of groups and the like, not because they're unaware the rules exist, but to them dungeons are NOT an in character thing, while if they are taught dungeons are mostly IC, they risk getting OOC comments about wanting to get faster XP/to the epic boss faster.

Hunting is a terrible term and always has been. I've never heard of this term used to describe an adventure before playing here.

The fact that many people seem to classify RP and Hunting as separate things has always been a problem. The experience should be fluid all the way through, there should be no RP or Hunt modes.

Funnily enough I find that low level / Newbie parties to be the best when it comes to RP. Goblin Caves, Gibbering Maw, Trolls, Sewers are all awesome. My theory is the slower combat pace and lack of powerful spells forces us to play safer and have more time to type and communicate.

Around the time you start hitting up The Spider Caves/FoD is where the "Hunting" usually begins. Of course there are always players and awesome groups that are exceptional no matter what dungeon or level. And I know there are some valid reasons why people want to treat hunting as OOC, not everyone has a lot of time to play and might only have 30-60 minutes. There's someone rushing ahead and people don't want to get left behind, Slow typer, tired, lagging, drunk etc. But making a little effort to generate some banter going or class/character specific role play goes a long.

And for fucks sake - If your with a rogue don't smash the bloody chests and doors open.

NB: Underdark excluded from the above. Maybe it's the setting, but the guys/gal's down there are always awesome when it comes to dungeons.

Mosh is right. If you leave spawns behind, they will despawn and respawn probably faster for the next group than if you took an hour clearing the dungeon. Or, if the group is right behind you, they can clear the spawns you triggered. That's an ideal situation, really. The most annoying thing is to get into a dungeon and have the first few groups respawn, only to realize some monk has been soloing ahead of you and by the fourth spawn you have to sit around waiting for respawns, since you clear so much faster.

Leaving spawns uncleared does not deprive others of chances to clear them. People speak as if it did.

Being a student of the Uce and Opustus, "don't be a dick" school of Amia has it's benefits.

Quote:

I'd like to pose a question in general: Do you personally view hunting/dungeon running/grinding an mainly IC or OOC thing? If you pick either there's no wrong here.

As soon as I log in, everything is IC, but I'm not inherently stupid enough, and neither is the majority of the playerbase in my experience, to think that I can't temper some IC behavior with some OOC courtesy within the spirit of the game, enjoyment and the rules. If it boils down to looking like a Dick by taking an hour to grind through Fire Giants whilst multiple parties are up my arse trying to get xp, or letting that party of four behind me have their way with the spawns, I choose to not be a dick. Regardless of whether or not my character is ICly a dick or not.

Quote:

Actually I have six new ones already planned out and three redesigns planned out. Don't really need more ideas, just need to clone myself

Six more needed then old fellow

.

Last edited by Dead on Mon, Jan 06 2014, 13:27 PM, edited 1 time in total.

1. Nope.

2. Not really abuse imho, but should be frowned upon.

3. Nope.

BhaalsFavoured07 wrote:

Totally agree with Moshing Chris on most if not all points, and with DM rulings the server is older than my dog.

Totally from a point of view of:

1. You get there first it's yours.

2. Combine OOC arrangement and IC interaction!

3. Suggesting if a group does "camp" maybe the other person or group ICly requests for a share which
sounds suitable.

Totally agree with Moshing Chris on most if not all points, and with DM rulings the server is older than my dog.

Also Kaminas point of teaching the new guys "gaming etiquette" is a good way to go!

Or... Alternative is Amia ICly has "hugging and rainbow" sessions. That was a flat joke.

MoshingChris wrote:

Using the wand in that fashion is camping and an exploit by using out of character knowledge to know exactly how long to wait until a boss is ready to respawn. It's why I wanted to remove the return to function from portal wands (and still do).

Enh. I use that -a lot- and I barely hunt, so wouldn't it be easier to just make portal wands not function where you can easily port in and out?

Murex wrote:

inprison666 wrote:

Wonder what would happen to RP if the bosses went away and there was no more epic loot to auction off?

It does, actually. Those with epic items will still have them, and the prices of existing epic items will skyrocket. Removing Bosses or changing them to drop normal loot makes them somewhat irrelevant. If you're complaining that others have epic loot and you don't- deal with it or do something about it. This has been brought up more than enough times already. If you have a pure rp build, then ask for some DC items.

He asked about the RP, not what would happen to prices and loot. ROLEPLAY ppl...

MightNMagic wrote:

Sweet, so I'll just wait hidden/invis'd until you get to the boss and spawn it, then shank you with PowerBuilt_#359 and take any loot that shows up. Might makes right, right? I mean, it's utterly YOUR fault for not making a BETTER powerbuild than mine or not having less of a life than me and spending 24/7 running bosses in favor of going to work/spending time with your family/etc.

Utterly RP and incharacter! We should do it! Yeah... No thanks.

This is so dickishly wrong but so right at the same time. I lawled

Hudson wrote:

I try to emote and rp when in a group as it makes the hunting that much more enjoyable for me (and less of a grind.)
When alone its still ic to me but I dont emote a lot ussually, I don't like hunting alone much though and usually quit after one dungeon and do something else or log. When I run into someone that changes of course.

Yes.

Quote:

wouldn't it be easier to just make portal wands not function

I trimmed that down to reflect my opinion on Portal Wands. I'd prefer that folk had to use a "Node" to travel to the next "Node" invoking a complex chain of "Nodes" for travel, rather than a tool in your inventory that lets you travel from Amia to Khem in one shot. I understand that there is way to much lore involved in Portal Wands and Ley-Lines for that though.

As for your point about restrictions. That would be fine if all our boss dungeons were single exits out of the dungeon with no way to back track up one level to Park and Camp.

MoshingChris wrote:

I trimmed that down to reflect my opinion on Portal Wands. I'd prefer that folk had to use a "Node" to travel to the next "Node" invoking a complex chain of "Nodes" for travel, rather than a tool in your inventory that lets you travel from Amia to Khem in one shot. I understand that there is way to much lore involved in Portal Wands and Ley-Lines for that though.

Oh man that would be super tedious. And consume a lot of wand charges.

MoshingChris wrote:

As for your point about restrictions. That would be fine if all our boss dungeons were single exits out of the dungeon with no way to back track up one level to Park and Camp.

We could just redesign a bit so you have to enter a small area for the bosses, no portalling allowed, the entrance is blocked after you go in, and the exit deposits you nowhere near the beginning (but you can run to the exit if you need to escape, so it doesn't really screw anyone.

Complicated, though.

Actually it would do away with Wands altogether and charges also.

Mass Relays?!

I like it.

The hard part with roleplaying during dungeon crawls is getting stuck with people just rushing a new build to 30; they don't listen to you, and nudge you to pick the pace up.

mirvala- wrote:

The hard part with roleplaying during dungeon crawls is getting stuck with people just rushing a new build to 30; they don't listen to you, and nudge you to pick the pace up.

They'll also offer unsolicited complaints and suggestions about your build and spell book.

MoshingChris wrote:

Actually it would do away with Wands altogether and charges also.

OH. I see! I thought you meant for the wands to function that way, hahaah.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

mirvala- wrote:

The hard part with roleplaying during dungeon crawls is getting stuck with people just rushing a new build to 30; they don't listen to you, and nudge you to pick the pace up.

They'll also offer unsolicited complaints and suggestions about your build and spell book.

Hehehe...

"Where are the buffs?!"

-Here! *FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUUUUUURBALL!!!*

serbiris wrote:

Mass Relays?!

Something like that.

serbiris wrote:

Despite playing a sneak I'm not really cool with leaving spawns behind. You never know how late a group will be and waiting for the respawns can be a huge pain, especially for potion-dependent classes. I don't care for serial bosshunters but I feel for the lowbies who want to level, so I prefer to just clear them.

Besides I can't solo any of the bosses anymore anyway >_>

Eh, they can always leave, or wait. Even if the spawns are cleared , you still have to wait, so non-issue imo. I can't think of any area with giant ranges of monster spawns of more than maybe a 5 lvl gap, so if they're there to level, kill the monsters!

Of course, potions/rings of invisibility are easily available, so potion-dependent classes can easily bypass spawns just as anybody can if they wish.

"Frowned upon" doesn't mean anything to someone who'd do it anyways. They'll just say "it's not against the rules so, nyah!"

MyOwnDestiny wrote:

MightNMagic wrote:

Sweet, so I'll just wait hidden/invis'd until you get to the boss and spawn it, then shank you with PowerBuilt_#359 and take any loot that shows up. Might makes right, right? I mean, it's utterly YOUR fault for not making a BETTER powerbuild than mine or not having less of a life than me and spending 24/7 running bosses in favor of going to work/spending time with your family/etc.

Utterly RP and incharacter! We should do it! Yeah... No thanks.

This is so dickishly wrong but so right at the same time. I lawled

Number One Rule of the Internet: Never underestimate the propensity of anonymous people to be dicks, especially when you embolden them with "IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES!"

MyOwnDestiny wrote:

Murex wrote:

inprison666 wrote:

Wonder what would happen to RP if the bosses went away and there was no more epic loot to auction off?

It does, actually. Those with epic items will still have them, and the prices of existing epic items will skyrocket. Removing Bosses or changing them to drop normal loot makes them somewhat irrelevant. If you're complaining that others have epic loot and you don't- deal with it or do something about it. This has been brought up more than enough times already. If you have a pure rp build, then ask for some DC items.

He asked about the RP, not what would happen to prices and loot. ROLEPLAY ppl...

This yes. My main character has all but one epic item that he would need and he just traded t away for the best armor in the game. So using the "I'm just jealous" argument doesn't work. My question was about role play if we took focus off hoarding epic items and auctioning them. I know there are quite a few players who only boss hunt (not knocking this) and I know several who role play more. I myself try to boss hunt a lot but bore of it so easy. On the flipside of this I've seen a player who turned boss hunting and selling loot into fabulous RP with their character Kate Goldwater. Their are a few though who know how to build boss hunters and although it doesn't bother me personally I can also see where it would rub some the wrong way. Kudos to all of you who have amassed many millions and have all the epic loot. I myself don't feel like bragging. To sum it up boss hunting is just as fun as mining iron ore.

Prices and economy of Amia are a part of RP.

Mushidoz wrote:

As many others do, I sometimes get out and go "bossing" about in hope to get some epic items. There are not a gillion of epic dungeons on the server, and so it is very likely to run into other players doing the same thing. Often, you will find the epic boss has been killed before you, so it does not spawn. All that is fine.

HOWEVER, more and more I am witnessing a decline in sportsmanship, and an increase in bad behaviours and abuses. This has to stop, seriously.

Here are the three things I am talking about and which I do not consider to be acceptable.

1) Rush Downs

By that I mean a group (or a soloer, who knows) that simply skip every single fight as they go and simply rush to the epic boss. Clear your freaking spawn.

2) Wand of Epic Boss

You get into a dungeon, kill all the spawns, proceed your way through the dungeon, arrive at the boss spawn, and the boss has been killed. How? They fought the boss, logged or waited, got another party member in by using their wand 15 mins later, skipping the entire dungeon in the process. That's clear and obvious abuse.

3) Rush Downs (part 2)

You get into a dungeon, kill the spawns (if any), proceed your way through the dungeon (well, let's call it that for now), arrive at the boss room and realize only the one that drops epic drop has been killed, leaving the challenging one (yes, I'm talking about the pirate/chest) behind to fight the next group that will show up, also effectively blocking the respawn for them. If you can't kill both, don't spawn them and go elsewhere. Clear your freaking spawns..........

Do we seriously need dms/scripters to work on a punitive solution? Seriously people, just have some fairplay and common sense. If you can't have a party that can deal with these bosses, then find one! There are countless of people hunting these bosses, just wait at one of the spawns and one will show up that you can board on with (if you're really that desperate).

Always soloed. Never had any problems while meeting others on the way, nor giving up a boss spot for other parties (expecially lowbies), waiting for the boss to respawn, teleporting away... It's actually pretty fun to meet other people and simply join them, even if my character has absolutely no need to travel with them and be potentially "crippled" by loot sharing.

As for the "often you'll find that the boss before you has been killed" it's not particularly frequent (on my side at least) as it takes very, very little for a boss to respawn and you'd really need to be massively unlucky to reach a spawn spot right after the boss has been killed. This said...

#1 It depends. I agree on cleaning potentially dangerous spawns close to leylines because they might kill somebody, I usually kill the spawns anyway because they block the way/loot/whatever, but it's indeed more beneficial to others to jump them, so they'll despawn and respawn quickly for those who're actually interested in killing them.

#2 Ohboy. Does someone actually do that?

#3 Absolutely not. In this case it's not a matter of laziness, rather, some characters are only able to kill one of the two between pirate and chest. The pirate is considerably tougher, doesn't drop epic loot and the few times I've tried he tore me to shreds. It's entirely possible to kill the chest by other means.

As for the PVP/RP/Ninjalooting/Dungeon contesting rumpus... it's simple. Keep it IC. I'm absolutely not against an evil aligned rogue stealing the loot and running, as this isn't world of warcraft and roleplaying an unfair rascal is... actually roleplaying. The same applies for contesting dungeons, people arguing badly while meeting away from the eyes of guards and so on.

Don't forget, of course, that the latter is a two-edged sword. Character X is aggressive or downright mischievous? Kill him. He's powerbuilt? Come back with four or five friends. Place a bounty on his head! Slander the sod! There are many, many alternatives to direct PVP.

And of course, shooting a courtesy tell to make sure the other player won't be shaken is always good form.

I still think we should connect Pirate/Loot together. Make it so the Loot will not go below 1 HP if Pirate is still alive. That way, you must kill them both.

mirvala- wrote:

Paladin Araelin wrote:

mirvala- wrote:

The hard part with roleplaying during dungeon crawls is getting stuck with people just rushing a new build to 30; they don't listen to you, and nudge you to pick the pace up.

They'll also offer unsolicited complaints and suggestions about your build and spell book.

Hehehe...

"Where are the buffs?!"

-Here! *FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUUUUUURBALL!!!*

It was fun for the first 49 tells I received, but I'm kind of tired of hearing the same advice.

"Why did you specialize in Illusion?"
"You're going to take Great Intelligence, right?"
"Don't take Epic Spell Penetration, it sucks."
"Aren't you level 25 yet?"
"You're still not level 25?" (here's a tip, lose a few levels and party with me!)
"Why didn't you prepare [insert spell]?"
"Why are you casting offensively?"
"Why aren't you casting offensively?"
etc.
etc.
etc.

49 tells and you still cast defensively?

=D

Haste me, bro.

Very_Svensk wrote:

49 tells and you still cast defensively?

=D

I'm mostly a buff bot now, but I don't get too many parties anymore and when I do it's the same stuff.

"Stay invisible."
"What are you doing invisible? Breach him!"

I will personally pimp smack every one of them for you.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

They'll also offer unsolicited complaints and suggestions about your build and spell book.

Under the Don't Be A Dick scheme, assure you I do refrain from this, but may I invite to consider the other person's point of view?

Imagine you are experienced hillwalker out for a hike up a rough rocky slope. As you stride briskly along, you soon catch up with a figure that is carefully picking their way barefoot through the jaggy edges underfoot, but inevitably is sometimes forced to put their weight fully on them, with all the wincing you would expect. As you get closer, you notice they're carrying a fine looking pair of hiking boots.

How long would you continue to watch them proceed before you suggested they put their boots on?

It really is painful to watch someone with a pair of boots as stout as a primary caster's spellbook, and bite your tongue because the last time you did, they snapped at you that actually they hating walking outdoors and were only doing it because they wanted to talk to their friend in the next valley.

So yeah, the other guy or girl has probably had enough of wincing in sympathy each time you cut your feet.

Dead wrote:

Prices and economy of Amia are a part of RP.

Realize this but it is only part. It almost seems like it is a focus. I just wonder what would happen if the focus was taken off of this? Should the magical item economy be such a high profile focus of rp? Realistically wouldn't the beholder majesty get tired of being killed 500 times per day? Imagine no bosses and every now and then some being moving in to rile the local populations of beholders and once it is killed with it's huge hoard then back to there being a cave with a bunch of beholders no boss? People I think would log in to just rp maybe a little more pvp within reason. I'm not suggesting a change just food for thought.

Uberuce wrote:

Paladin Araelin wrote:

They'll also offer unsolicited complaints and suggestions about your build and spell book.

Under the Don't Be A Dick scheme, assure you I do refrain from this, but may I invite to consider the other person's point of view?

Imagine you are experienced hillwalker out for a hike up a rough rocky slope. As you stride briskly along, you soon catch up with a figure that is carefully picking their way barefoot through the jaggy edges underfoot, but inevitably is sometimes forced to put their weight fully on them, with all the wincing you would expect. As you get closer, you notice they're carrying a fine looking pair of hiking boots.

How long would you continue to watch them proceed before you suggested they put their boots on?

It really is painful to watch someone with a pair of boots as stout as a primary caster's spellbook, and bite your tongue because the last time you did, they snapped at you that actually they hating walking outdoors and were only doing it because they wanted to talk to their friend in the next valley.

So yeah, the other guy or girl has probably had enough of wincing in sympathy each time you cut your feet.

So when you're in someone's car and they're driving you somewhere (for free), and they're legally capable of driving that car (sober, licensed and insured, etc.), do you tell them how exactly to drive and when to change lanes and where to park, and to speed up or slow down?

Paladin Araelin wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

49 tells and you still cast defensively?

=D

I'm mostly a buff bot now, but I don't get too many parties anymore and when I do it's the same stuff.

"Stay invisible."
"What are you doing invisible? Breach him!"

The trick is staying IC and doing whatever you want one way or another.

Or what your character would do, that works too. If I was playing a wizard, I would use my shuperiah knawledge to boss everybody around.

The problem is, these comments come OOC'ly from gits that just want their grind to be done ASAP so they can get to epic levels in three days.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

So when you're in someone's car and they're driving you somewhere (for free), and they're legally capable of driving that car (sober, licensed and insured, etc.), do you tell them how exactly to drive and when to change lanes and where to park, and to speed up or slow down?

Being a car's passenger is the equivalent of casting only Invis and then running after you leeching XP. Yes, that would be an utter dick move, but it's not an applicable analogy.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

So when you're in someone's car and they're driving you somewhere (for free), and they're legally capable of driving that car (sober, licensed and insured, etc.), do you tell them how exactly to drive and when to change lanes and where to park, and to speed up or slow down?

The analogy would be if I was in my car and you were in your car, and I know exactly where we are going, do I follow you or get you to follow me. Or perhaps I let you borrow my car because I know you like driving so I give you a few pointers on how I like it treated.

You know given there are generally no passengers in a party that contributes.

Ice wrote:

Paladin Araelin wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

49 tells and you still cast defensively?

=D

I'm mostly a buff bot now, but I don't get too many parties anymore and when I do it's the same stuff.

"Stay invisible."
"What are you doing invisible? Breach him!"

The trick is staying IC and doing whatever you want one way or another.

Or what your character would do, that works too. If I was playing a wizard, I would use my shuperiah knawledge to boss everybody around.

The point I've apparently been taking the very long way around to getting to is that there's generally two types of dungeoneers: 1) the guy (or gal) who uses what I call Justification RP to advance quickly through the levels and uses tricks and game knowledge (NWN and Amia), and sometimes other people, to get there and get all the best gear, and 2) the people who want to run through the dungeons to have fun killing things as a team, get levels, RP along the way until things get busy, and pick up neat items. Based on my observations there's subsets and blendings of people in each of these groups, so it's not like everyone fits into exactly one or the other.

The person who created this thread is pretty much pointing out what I would consider to be this first basic type of dungeoneer. The Justification RP is RP that is used by someone who might not even give a gosh darn about character interaction and growth at the moment, they just want to get through the dungeon to get the best gear and get to the next level, and they have an IC reason all wrapped up with a bow just in case you ask. They could just like the game systems put in place in this particular game, or they could just want to dominate and not merely participate in RP elsewhere, or any number of other reasons.

The thing is, the people who really don't care about getting the best items or racing to level 30 or having the ultimate build are sometimes used as stepping stones by these people in the race to the top. I'd ordinarily not care if I got to level 25 tomorrow or in 2017 if I was consistently able to get into parties at level 23, because I simply like working with a team and killing the baddies and having my own unique puzzle piece to contribute and finding cool items that I'll never use and never get a buyer or fair price for. I'm frequently bugged by people who tell me what feats to take or not take or that my build is messed up and I should just make a new character (or quit) because they expect me to be their stepping stone to get to the cool stuff and the top level, and when I'm not needed it's because they've levelled out of my range or they found a better way to get what they want.

The whole business of ninja-monstering (that is, hurrying past monster spawns to grab the epic loot item) goes against the spirit of the game because it allows, if it doesn't promote, players to become dominant in role play situations just because they took the easy way of getting the goods. I think if Amia's loot system was based on guaranteed chests in preset locations with random and potentially valuable contents, we'd see that Amia would have forbidden ninja-looting a long time ago for exactly this reason. If someone's just sneaking around to kill the boss for the item instead, it only adds a little extra difficulty to the very same act of ninja-looting.

mirvala- wrote:

The problem is, these comments come OOC'ly from gits that just want their grind to be done ASAP so they can get to epic levels in three days.

I'm a filthy powergamer and the grind gets boring to me after a while. I don't understand why you'd want to make it harder and slower, hence the hiking analogy.

If it's a point of principle that I'm a git, and should therefore be punished with frustrating and slow XP, then...guess we'll not be on each other's Christmas card list?

This entire topic is pointless. You want to change a norm - Good luck

Very_Svensk wrote:

This entire topic is pointless. You want to change a norm - Good luck

An intelligent discussion is never pointless. Even if the only thing you get is to know where your fellow gamer's head is at.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

The point I've apparently been taking the very long way around to getting to is that there's generally two types of dungeoneers: 1) the guy (or gal) who uses what I call Justification RP to advance quickly through the levels and uses tricks and game knowledge (NWN and Amia), and sometimes other people, to get there and get all the best gear, and 2) the people who want to run through the dungeons to have fun killing things as a team, get levels, RP along the way until things get busy, and pick up neat items. Based on my observations there's subsets and blendings of people in each of these groups, so it's not like everyone fits into exactly one or the other.

The person who created this thread is pretty much pointing out what I would consider to be this first basic type of dungeoneer. The Justification RP is RP that is used by someone who might not even give a gosh darn about character interaction and growth at the moment, they just want to get through the dungeon to get the best gear and get to the next level, and they have an IC reason all wrapped up with a bow just in case you ask. They could just like the game systems put in place in this particular game, or they could just want to dominate and not merely participate in RP elsewhere, or any number of other reasons.

The thing is, the people who really don't care about getting the best items or racing to level 30 or having the ultimate build are sometimes used as stepping stones by these people in the race to the top. I'd ordinarily not care if I got to level 25 tomorrow or in 2017 if I was consistently able to get into parties at level 23, because I simply like working with a team and killing the baddies and having my own unique puzzle piece to contribute and finding cool items that I'll never use and never get a buyer or fair price for. I'm frequently bugged by people who tell me what feats to take or not take or that my build is messed up and I should just make a new character (or quit) because they expect me to be their stepping stone to get to the cool stuff and the top level, and when I'm not needed it's because they've levelled out of my range or they found a better way to get what they want.

The whole business of ninja-monstering (that is, hurrying past monster spawns to grab the epic loot item) goes against the spirit of the game because it allows, if it doesn't promote, players to become dominant in role play situations just because they took the easy way of getting the goods. I think if Amia's loot system was based on guaranteed chests in preset locations with random and potentially valuable contents, we'd see that Amia would have forbidden ninja-looting a long time ago for exactly this reason. If someone's just sneaking around to kill the boss for the item instead, it only adds a little extra difficulty to the very same act of ninja-looting.

I like the chest idea

Uberuce wrote:

mirvala- wrote:

The problem is, these comments come OOC'ly from gits that just want their grind to be done ASAP so they can get to epic levels in three days.

I'm a filthy powergamer and the grind gets boring to me after a while. I don't understand why you'd want to make it harder and slower, hence the hiking analogy.

If it's a point of principle that I'm a git, and should therefore be punished with frustrating and slow XP, then...guess we'll not be on each other's Christmas card list?

I'll play my mage however I do please, thank you. Your analogy barely covers the whole situation. Because you deem one path is "the ideal" doesn't discredit any other.

In before lock.

mirvala- wrote:

I'll play my mage however I do please, thank you. Your analogy barely covers the whole situation. Because you deem one path is "the ideal" doesn't discredit any other.

You seem to have forgotten the part, that was quoted, where you broadly generalized folk as gits for going about the process in a way different from yours.

I prefer people to be communicative even if that is by making annoying suggestions OOCly. It's valuable insight into how to adjust current and future spells, dungeons etc to make the game more fun over-all. I also take it in the spirit it's meant to be taken, as one player trying to help out the other guy. As for the grind, I take it either way, if people want to bum rush, I'll bum rush, if people want to walk slowly and RP every encounter I'll do that to. I like being adaptable.

Which is why. . .

inprison666 wrote:

An intelligent discussion is never pointless. Even if the only thing you get is to know where your fellow gamer's head is at.

. . .This is pretty apt. Probably the most applicable and thoughtful statement in this thread to be honest.

Uberuce is worth listening to. He transformed me from a zero into a Zorro. Then I kinda modified it to be more like Zorro, the Gay Blade.

MoshingChris wrote:

mirvala- wrote:

I'll play my mage however I do please, thank you. Your analogy barely covers the whole situation. Because you deem one path is "the ideal" doesn't discredit any other.

You seem to have forgotten the part, that was quoted, where you broadly generalized folk as gits for going about the process in a way different from yours.

I prefer people to be communicative even if that is by making annoying suggestions OOCly. It's valuable insight into how to adjust current and future spells, dungeons etc to make the game more fun over-all. I also take it in the spirit it's meant to be taken, as one player trying to help out the other guy. As for the grind, I take it either way, if people want to bum rush, I'll bum rush, if people want to walk slowly and RP every encounter I'll do that to. I like being adaptable.

Which is why. . .

inprison666 wrote:

An intelligent discussion is never pointless. Even if the only thing you get is to know where your fellow gamer's head is at.

. . .This is pretty apt. Probably the most applicable and thoughtful statement in this thread to be honest.

Oh, of course. But there's a diffenrence between "May I suggest that you prepare stoneskins? We're going to deal with a lot of physical damage." and "Fucking buff me already!!"

And I didn't generalise people offering help as gits. Nor was I referring to constructive comments about builds. I was indeed pointing out the same thing Paladin was pointing out; people wh owant you to play a class THIS specific way because they decide to, and fuck your roleplay flavor because I gotta kill that stuff. They want you to become their lil buff bitch.

And, it is part of the learning process to make mistakes, especially in video games. I usually offer help in the form of "If you have questions/need help, feel free to ask" instead of directly pointing out what's wrong. Some people prefer to learn by themselves and don't want the easy solution pushed over to them.

Paladin Araelin wrote:

So when you're in someone's car and they're driving you somewhere (for free), and they're legally capable of driving that car (sober, licensed and insured, etc.), do you tell them how exactly to drive and when to change lanes and where to park, and to speed up or slow down?

If I see them making bullshit mistakes, yes I am absolutely going to tell them. I consider being able to teach someone something and not doing it, wrong.

Of course, everything they are telling you to do can, and should be done IC. If your character is not as effective in the party, someone is absolutely entitled to bring it up IC. Some PCs are more ambitious than yours and they even have the right, if you are slowing them down, to ICly ask you to leave the party. It is all RP.

If they are telling you OOC that your build sucks and that you should abandon it, most of the time they mean you no harm. If they are racing to be the most powerful, then you having a sucky build is actually good for them. You are of course entitled to kindly ask them to stop sending you OOC messages about your character. If they keep pestering you, report them to a DM and take screenies.

The same goes to you Mirvala. If someone is asking of you IC to be his buff bitch then deal with it IC. If not, tell them to bring it up IC, and if they keep pestering you OOC, you know what to do.

This needs to stop.

Who is online