AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Does Greater Dispelling strip NEP?

No, since the NEP was a soviet economic program in the 1920's

555444333 wrote:

No, since the NEP was a soviet economic program in the 1920's

I would assume that it does, but haven't tested it. I don't see why it would not remove NEP.

Question: Is the Pharaoh Sentinel capable of speaking? Haven't been able to find a definite yes/no.

The Sentinel has a voice audio, if that's what you mean. It says something in a deep voice when you click on it.

It does? I hadn't noticed. I meant more in general, like lore-wise can they talk. I wanted to do some creative emoting/speakign with it and figured I'd double check haha.

If it has a voiceset though, I'm gonna assume it can unless it's just there for combat sounds, hah.

Last edited by Kamina on Tue, Dec 10 2013, 15:16 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

14. Taunting someone with the Taunt-skill, using Turn Undead summons and casting spells such as Darkness is considered initiating PvP. You should set Hostile before doing that.

Does casting Light on a Shadowdancer count towards this rule in terms of PvP?

Richard_Edmund wrote:

Who would be good to speak to in regards to changing account names?

I don't think Sune's been on for a while, so is there anyone else I'm able to ask?

Yaster Galer wrote:

Quote:

14. Taunting someone with the Taunt-skill, using Turn Undead summons and casting spells such as Darkness is considered initiating PvP. You should set Hostile before doing that.

Does casting Light on a Shadowdancer count until this rule in terms of PvP?

Any action intended to hinder someone in preparations for an eventual combat should be done under hostile.

Mind you, that solely is my opinion.

I remember someone telling me it did (In fact it was in a PvP situation sparked from members of an opposing party casting Light on me, making my party jump them) but some confirmation would be grand

If you disarm a sword from a fighter, that's a hostile action, if you gag and bind the hands of a mage that's a fade to black hostile action, so casting light on a shadowdancer would be, by all means, a hostile action.

It is indeed considered a hostile action. Frankly, these days, just about any spellcasting could be considered a hostile action because without spellcraft you don't know what spell is being cast and so your fighter could see the friendly mage trying to heal him and think she's trying to destroy him.

Common sense applies, IMO. "You should set hostile" really means that you must not take advantage of the mechanical limitations of the neutral-setting in a way that prevents timely retaliation. Light is classified as harmless, so it offers neither a saving throw nor a spell resistance check. Whether you're Neutral or Hostile makes no difference. Neither is it a ticking time bomb. Therefore, common sense dictates: you may consider it a legitimate cause for PvP, but it's not really an issue if they don't set you to Hostile before casting it before it has no practical implications. If they don't intend to initiate PvP but you interpret it as such, you have plenty of time to do the hostiling yourself.

Yossarin wrote:

It is indeed considered a hostile action. Frankly, these days, just about any spellcasting could be considered a hostile action because without spellcraft you don't know what spell is being cast and so your fighter could see the friendly mage trying to heal him and think she's trying to destroy him.

I totally agree. Too many people metagame knowing spells just because they recognise the VFX.

Does Light actually do anything negatively? Is there some kind of penalty to Hide? I know you can still HiPS with Light on you (or so I have been told the lore says you can).

If it doesn't do anything negatively, then is it really a hostile action? Just playing Devil's Advocate (because I love doing it)

mirvala- wrote:

I totally agree. Too many people metagame knowing spells just because they recognize the VFX.

I've seen someone claim that another person couldn't recognize them because they had spell VFXs on. The fact that said spell effects do absolutely nothing to change the sound of their voice meant nothing to them. They skreemed meta. It's was hilarious.

When you've been hit with hundreds of implosions, you're bound to know what the spell is, and what it's going to do, by the time you've hit one thousand.

There is a mechanical penalty to Hide, as shown in the Shadowdancer's Lore thread:

Quote:

Spot DC:

• +10 DC if the spotter is in combat.
• +5 DC if the target is standing still.
• -5 DC if the spotter is standing still.
• Size modifiers (tiny: +8, small: +4, medium: 0, large: -4, huge: -8 ).
• Area spot check modifiers.
• +5 DC for stealthed players (only), if they are in the back arc.
• +5 DC at night if the spotter does not have a light (or darkvision).
• -10 DC at night if the target has a light on them.

When you're emitting a light source you can't HiPS by Amia lore, probably because it has the effect of chasing away the requisite shadows. It can be suppressed by a darkness spell however.

VFXs are considered IC because of WYSIWYG and it's just too confusing otherwise, even if it doesn't make that much sense for dinner plates or eyes to fly around your head when certain effects are active.

I sidestep this problem by always taking spellcraft ranks!

Last edited by Naivatkal on Tue, Dec 10 2013, 16:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.

You sure? Has this been tested to be a thing?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Light

Quote:

The light granted by this spell does not penalize stealth.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56068

Quote:

Light (BoT)
BoT Page is added.

I only ask because there's no mention in default NWN or in our spell changes about Light giving a mechanical penalty. If there is, we should probably mention it. I mean, it makes sense for it to have one.

serbiris wrote:

When you're emitting a light source you can't HiPS by Amia lore, probably because it has the effect of chasing away the requisite shadows. It can be suppressed by a darkness spell however.

Can you point me to the lore? I was being told by SDs that it didn't matter, and I couldn't find where I originally read that.

edit:
The only thing I could even find that was relevant before was this:

Quote:

Q: Can HiPS be used if the shadowdancer has Light cast on them, but there are still objects to cast shadows within 10 feet of them?
A. Yes, though bear in mind that Light has a radius of 20 feet; twice that of the range a Shadowdancer needs to HiPS.

Which is ambiguous at best, but clearly states you can HiPS with a light source on you. Ambiguously.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=68988 Pchoooo.

Also, quoted from said thread:

Quote:

Q: Can HiPS be used if the shadowdancer has Light cast on them, but there are still objects to cast shadows within 10 feet of them?
A. Yes, though bear in mind that Light has a radius of 20 feet; twice that of the range a Shadowdancer needs to HiPS.

Q: Can HiPS be used in Darkness even if the shadowdancer has Light cast on them?
A. Yes.

Last edited by IronAngel on Tue, Dec 10 2013, 16:34 PM, edited 1 time in total.

mirvala- wrote:

I totally agree. Too many people metagame knowing spells just because they recognise the VFX.

In NWN, Spellcraft really only applies to the moment of casting, so that you can counterspell. Once the spell is cast, if only you've seen it in action before, of course you would recognize the effects. If that's a meteor falling on your head, you know it's going to hurt whether you recognized the gestures and words to the spell beforehand or not.

Even in PnP, recognizing a spell already in place really refers to behind-the-scenes information. Same with Knowledge. The DM is not going to make you take ranks in Knowledge and Spellcraft skills or force you to forget what you witnessed and participated in during the campaign. Those abilities give you additional information that you would have learned outside of game time. Clocking hundreds of hours on Amia will obviously leave our PCs a little more knowledgeable than the handful of things you'll learn over ten four-hour tabletop sessions, but that's the nature of the game.

Yaster Galer wrote:

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=68988 Pchoooo.

Also, quoted from said thread:

Quote:

Q: Can HiPS be used if the shadowdancer has Light cast on them, but there are still objects to cast shadows within 10 feet of them?
A. Yes, though bear in mind that Light has a radius of 20 feet; twice that of the range a Shadowdancer needs to HiPS.

Q: Can HiPS be used in Darkness even if the shadowdancer has Light cast on them?
A. Yes.

Uh, okay?

Not sure what that's supposed to prove ;p

Basically you CAN HiPS with Light active on your character, but you must be able to cast a shadow on an object and be within 10m of the shadow you cast. Or just throw a Darkness spell, seems easiest.

Darkness wands for the win.

Trust me.

No no Yaster, trouble is it can't be your own shadow. Now, a Light spell on you would cause anything nearby to cast shadows, but I'm unsure if they're usable - if you're standing on the other side of a large rock, it should cast a shadow, but if you don't have Line Of Effect can you still use it to HiPS? I'd assume not or else the Light thing would be pointless...

Basically Naivatkal, any shadows which are magically unquenchable by Light (usually those generated by darkness spells of higher level, but there may be special non-spell supernatural effects) will still be present and thus HiPSable once within the required range.

Really, the one that irks me the most is when someone casts See Invis or True Seeing. Suddenly, Faded Balls go off EVERYWHERE. I mean, people using Faded Balls don't generally have Spellcraft, I think, so how the hell would they know someone just cast See Invis/TS without seeing the eyeball dealies?

I've gotten to the point where I pop my Sightsong intentionally at random, just to see if spells and balls start going off. Done it twice now and it's worked with varying degrees of success. No emotes from me whatsoever, just the sudden appearance of the spell VFX.

Line Of Effect is only relevant to Shadow Jumping, not HiPS, I believe.

And I was meaning shadow on another thing, as opposed to yourself, as you are a light source "you casting shadow" was meant in the context of being near something to create a shadow with

Having light cast on you makes it very easy to HIPS, but difficult to hide. When you're glowing like a torch, you get nice, well defined shadows cast off every object close to you, radiating outward, and well within the spell's radius. Go play with some lightbulbs or something. However, staying concealed is more difficult, represented by the +10 bonus to spot everyone gets for trying to spot someone with a light source on them. It's pretty silly to think that a level 0 spell, with no save and no touch attack, would negate a class ability. Even the +10 to spot is pretty OP considering the Spot/Hide discrepancy.

I have done that as well, Yossarin, though just randomly casting invisibility. It might just have been dimensional door, for all you know, uneducated warriors!

Line of Effect may or may not be relevant, because the question is whether or not an SD can manipulate shadows outside of their Line of Sight. If the shadow is blocked by a large object, but within ten feet (as opposed to say, standing on the roof of a house - a shadow is technically within 10 feet, but you have no LoE so you probably can't use it), can you still manipulate it in order to HiPS?

I believe so. The act of HiPS is akin to (now this may be a bit weird to explain) pulling a blanket cover over one's self using techniques gained from manipulating shadows. This difference between HiPS and Shadow Jump, as long as there is a shadow within 10ft to manipulate, they can 'pull it over them', while you NEED to see where you are going half because you need to know where you'll land and half because you can not pass through solid objects in the Shadow Plane.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Having light cast on you makes it very easy to HIPS, but difficult to hide. When you're glowing like a torch, you get nice, well defined shadows cast off every object close to you, radiating outward, and well within the spell's radius. Go play with some lightbulbs or something. However, staying concealed is more difficult, represented by the +10 bonus to spot everyone gets for trying to spot someone with a light source on them. It's pretty silly to think that a level 0 spell, with no save and no touch attack, would negate a class ability. Even the +10 to spot is pretty OP considering the Spot/Hide discrepancy.

Not so sure about the lightbulb thing. Remember, you are the lightbulb, and the light you're casting radiates well for 20 feet and dimly for another 20 feet, which is apparently as bright as a torch. The light touches pretty much everything you look at directly.

Yaster wrote:

I believe so. The act of HiPS is akin to (now this may be a bit weird to explain) pulling a blanket cover over one's self using techniques gained from manipulating shadows. This difference between HiPS and Shadow Jump, as long as there is a shadow within 10ft to manipulate, they can 'pull it over them', while you NEED to see where you are going half because you need to know where you'll land and half because you can not pass through solid objects in the Shadow Plane.

But it makes just as much sense to be need to be able to "reach" or see the shadow you need to pull that blanket, no? I'm not saying that's how it must be, I'm saying we have no grounds to assert either way whether or not SDs need LoS to HiPS.

I'd say no, but I just follow a rule of common sense. A 40 dex assassin/Sd backflipping over a largish boulder to dive into the shadow seems legit, but the shadow on the other side of a wall? Nah.

Also, there are LOS ramifications if your whole body is literally glowing...as in your have no sight at all. Which brings up the question if it should even be able to be cast on a "person". Is a "person" an "object?" The Light spells specifies an object. Or is it assumed that the Light spell is cast on a random object or piece of gear/clothing, in which case the SD would be easily able to manipulate the light source and the player doesn't need to give it any more thought than the inherent +10 to Spot?

Well I guess LoS is really an issue Mahtan or another DM would have to clear up! It's rather ambiguous, as all we're told is 10ft within a shadow that isn't your own.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Tue, Dec 10 2013, 17:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Okay apparently the wiki is an ass, lol.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spot

Quote:

+10 DC if the spotter is in combat.
+5 DC if the target is standing still.
-5 DC if the spotter is standing still.
Size modifiers (tiny: +8, small: +4, medium: 0, large: -4, huge: -8).
Area spot check modifiers.
+5 DC for stealthed players (only), if they are in the back arc.
+5 DC at night if the spotter does not have a light (or darkvision).
-10 DC at night if the target has a light on them.

So it's in the Spot page, not the Light page. That's a bit irritating and makes sense why I could never find it hah. So yeah, that's where the Lore thread got it from. I just couldn't tell originally if it was a default NWN thing or Amia change.

Yeah, waving the orange flag for DM clarification on that point.

The badass SD just punches a hole through the roof and uses those shadows, of course. Wah-pow. But I meant with the boulder example that the SD was affected by Light, so if you moved to the shadow, the shadow would subsequently disappear.

I think technically creatures count as objects for the purposes of the Light spell, but I dunno if your eyeballs would be emitting so much light as to be unable to receive light. God dammit, HiPS is such a weird thing, and frankly so is how the Light spell works.

Well, we can agree that Light would stop Shadowjumping at least, since you need to be immersed in the shadow.

No. I can backflip faster than light.

Shadowjumping is easy to explain. You need to be standing in darkness and landing in darkness, any light in the path between there and then is irrelevant, any objects or people however will make Shadowjumping impossible.

So yeah, unless you cast darkness on yourself Light will hinder that.

Last edited by IronAngel on Tue, Dec 10 2013, 17:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.

The SD "lore" is already troublesome enough. Its restrictions should be scripted in game or ignored. It was a mistake to incorporate the "large enough shadow close enough" rules, since that's not how the ability works in NWN.

And no, a cantrip without the proper counters certainly should not hamper class features. Or anything else, for that matter. It should be a touch attack, at the very least.

Richard_Edmund wrote:

When you've been hit with hundreds of implosions, you're bound to know what the spell is, and what it's going to do, by the time you've hit one thousand.

You may recognize the spell you were hit with, but that has nothing to do with recognizing the casting of said spell.

I should make a wizard with Auto Still 3 and Auto Silent 3, so he can be like the Flame Alchemist and just snap his fingers and make fireballs.

We should totally make it so if you have Auto Still and Silent Spellcraft does nothing. I mean, th ere's no way to know what's being cast

Kudark wrote:

Richard_Edmund wrote:

When you've been hit with hundreds of implosions, you're bound to know what the spell is, and what it's going to do, by the time you've hit one thousand.

You may recognize the spell you were hit with, but that has nothing to do with recognizing the casting of said spell.

Which is not the issue, because you couldn't do that without Spellcraft anyway. It's all just "obidae blablah" until you see the effect.

Which are the usual paladin divinities?

The Amia Wiki page has a nicely compiled list!

Thanks !

Also check my cool articles in R&L on paladins of different Faerûnian faiths!

Will do, thanks!

Is there regulations for multiclassing as a paladin here in Amia?

(I would assume those under the wiki page that was linked above were just quoted from source.)

Except alignment? No that I know - hence a paladin with rogue levels is a normal thing to behold.

Oh, alright! Thanks!

General Questions

Who is online