AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Elven - cross-race honorifics?

When speaking elven, and sometimes not, elves and closely-related races will refer to one another by brother, sister and so on.

Are there any accepted honorifics, specifically when speaking elven, between elves and other races? In the case of my character Stiker, that'd be human-elf. Or is it that elves being so united, and often so haughty in the face of the short-lived races, that it'd just generally be in bad taste using a word that assumes a closeness, a familiarity?

I've asked a few folk in-game and the general consensus is 'Hm. Actually, I'm not sure'. So, I put it to you all here.

I'm thinking probably not. Your cultural-imperialist sun elf types wouldn't dignify the n-tel'Quessir by giving them elven titles, and your worldly live-and-let-live moon elf types would probably give other races the courtesy of addressing them with their own race's honorifics. (Crude, over-broad stereotypes there, but you get the picture.)

I'm not sure how well-founded in lore the practice of brother-sister talk is, anyway. I am not a 100% sure, but I don't recall the characters in the Last Mythal trilogy calling each other by familial titles. That's not to say it's wrong to do it (though I do think elves would differentiate between "brothers-of-the-People" and real blood brothers, given how important family history is to them), but it's probably more of an Amian practice. So you won't find further lore specification on something that isn't canon in the first place.

Solid points, both.

I've not read any in-universe books, but that seems a good standard to go by. Possible that such honorifics are an affectation of roleplayers at large, then. I've seen it in other places besides Amia.

Thank you for your replies.

My main elf doen't call anyone sister, brother, cousin or any other family title if they are not family relatives. Just because I imagine for noble house member family ties being very important and the family lineage is what is essential part of Noble House. At least for me.

Thus I use sir, mister, lady, miss.. etc.. When refering to other people. And don't find the use of sister/brother needed in elvn community. Especially when we are consider elven culture being very individualistic.

Magiros wrote:

Especially when we are consider elven culture being very individualistic.

Familial titles aside, my interpretation is the opposite. I think elven society is very communitarian, traditional and orderly compared to individualistic, profiteering humans. As the first law of Cormanthor said, also adopted by Winya, "the People are as one." What you do to one, you do to them all. This isn't the complex reality, of course, but it's the ideal and general vibe of their culture. From that perspective, I can appreciate the use of familial titles extended to all the People - just with the reservation I made above, that there would be a distinction made between titles of general racial kinship and those of blood family.

Aye, I'm of the thought with Iron in this (I think?!). It's why my own elves have used the 'family' titles for other elves, or kin depending on what I feel like I suppose.

But yes, still a distinction between actual family and 'the people' as a whole

Touching on what Liz said regarding the different 'varieties' of elf, and in light of Magiros' input, I feel it can be assumed that among the general unity of the elves there are of course individual and denominational differences. Certain elves, elf types, and houses, may be either more free or more sectarian of their regarding of others whether they be of the People or no.

What I mean is that there is a sense of community but the people are very individualistic. At least the books I've read always mention it, they are of community but also are very individualistic persons. In a sense I can compare Asian cultures that are very communal and Western world where individualism is valued more.

In my opinion dwarfs are far more community based than elves, and at least by the roleplay I've seen this is the case as well in game. And I do remember reading that elf tend to have these depates and arguments with each others, however, when facing danger they unite like one. And what you do to one, you do to them all, usually tends to apply when non-people act against one of the elven people, not when one elf does to another elf.

Therefore I still disagree with the view that elves as community is communitarian, in some senses yes, but there are a lot where individualism is appreciated more and that is show trough the culture as well. Even the artcraft made is not same, they don't procude masses because every piece is unique and individual, which reflects the mindset of the people. Just because the cultuer is ancient and tradition and order has developed further than in younger societies, it does not make it more communitarian in my opinion.

Elves are far more communal. They are the only race with Communion, which is a gift given to them directly by Corellon Larethian. It is even said (I cannot remember the book) that elves never harm each other because they are keenly aware of the pain they cause.

Elves can be considered rather individualistic in their opinions. The opinionated nature is more bred from family history and status than from individual enlightenment, though. However, just because one debates and has a differing opinion, it does not mean they are any less invested in their community. I would argue that the opposite is the case.

Maybe I'll add more later. It's almost 7am and I've been up for 24 hours now, so I'm not thinking straight.

As for the original topic: Liz sums up my opinion. I don't believe the elves would bestow an elven title on a non-elf unless they went above and beyond to help further elven culture and ideals, or fought alongside them heroically and saved a number of elves. That doesn't mean they won't be polite (sun elves probably won't be), but it's just more that elven titles are highly valued by the elven people and aren't bestowed willy nilly.

I'll add that when Kaithan addresses elves as sister or brother, she's doing it as a matter of theology, not sociology. She believes that each member of the elven race literally has some trace of the blood of Corellon in their veins, as a consequence of the way Corellon created their ancestors. When she calls another elf sister or brother, it's not some touchy-feely symbolic gesture. It's a reference to what she believes to be something close to actual genetics; that in a very tangible sort of way, Corellon is literally a "father" of each individual elf. Which would make all of them siblings.

Nobody else is obligated to care what Kaithan thinks, of course. But the OP asked for opinions. So, there ya go.

I've heard the surface elves referred to as 'our traitorous surface cousins' in the underdark.

Cael uses Brother with the other males he's been travelling with, and typically uses Sister or 'my lady' towards females. Cael also isn't anything like a noble, heh. Though he'd use more 'proper titles' with nobles or councillors or such as needed.

And some drow like to use 'whoredancers' as well ;D

thats specifically in reference to the Eilis though

Liz wrote:

I'll add that when Kaithan addresses elves as sister or brother, she's doing it as a matter of theology, not sociology.

That.

I also think the OP was asking how a non-elf would refer to elves. If elves call each other brother/sister/whatever, what does a human companion of an elf call a human?

Elven - cross-race honorifics?

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