Yeah, when I read it it would be taken either way so I figured I'd clarify just in case :3 No harm done.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

And you're not going to, because in PnP it doesn't, which is why I never said "Mord". Know why? Because PnP is filled w/ hundreds of spells and effects, many of which do lower SR, of which, racial SR isn't mysteriously immune. NWN unfortunately is much more limited and rather than include every spell and feat in existence and quintuple the size of the game they condensed some things and dropped others.

Bioware didn't mess up SR. If it worked as you want, you'd never be able to drop monster SR.

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Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)

FTFY

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

I hate all ECLs. Let's just get rid of all of them.


No, really. I hate them.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

So, again, where do you see that? I'm asking because I'm generally curious as nothing I see that says monk SR can't be lowered.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I'm confused. Why are we over complicating this.






........

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

On that note, there isn't a spell in 3.5 edition that lowers a creature's spell resistance. Mage's Disjunction, a 9th level Abjuration in PnP, has no such effect. There's stuff like Assay Resistance and True Casting but they don't actually affect a target's SR. Instead, they temporarily increase a spellcasters chance of beating someone's SR. All this said, I am of the mind that drow Spell Resistance should not be reducable. Perhaps the very spell, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, should be altered to reflect it's PnP counterpart in this sense. I also support the notion that ECL + 2 races should be able to get Winterwights, improved shapeshifting capabilities and the like.

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

The one thing I could find was Lower Spell Resistance. It's a fourth circle spell, but it has a Fort check to negate it. Other than that, I'd be in favor of changing Mord's all around. It doesn't make sense to have a spell lower SR if there's no way to actually lower someone's SR. I've only ever found instances where SR can be given/raised (items/spells).

I doubt it would affect Balance much and it would help drow SR continue to matter a lot. The ability to reduce it (even via a simple scroll) is pretty off-putting.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I'd be more inclined to follow the reasoning of the srd for spell resistance, than to write an entire except based on one spell in a lore book about dragons. Those made up spells are always so poorly done and often times they're extremely unbalanced and are inconsistent with the rest of the lore. That is just one example.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Naivatkals suggestion is the best thing to come out of this thread, I feel. It has already been said that the ecl will not be touched. I dont feel there is really a need for it, anyway, besides the skill cap issue. Ecl is kind of silly in the first place because originally-in PnP, it just means how hard it is to level, not the what the max level you can reach. When we interpret it to mean that, you can see the issues of inequality that arise, but that is all we have to work with.

Im iffy about the non-reduceable SR, because yes, it is essentially a free item. But it does suck for the SR to constantly be counted towards why the race is strong, yet it can so easily be made virtually null at higher levels and in PvP. Ftr 29/Rog 1 with a pittance of UMD and a Mords scroll is all it takes. Given how easy it is negate at higher levels, I am slightly leaning towards making it non-reducable. Or maybe only partially reducable.

As for the Faerie Fire, I feel that that is also a good idea. Ten DC is a significant amount to spend for a rather obscure, incidental ability. It is also not a super-popular ability from what Ive seen. The only issue is that it would be really powerful at lower levels. So the two options are have to scale of character level, or it is gotten for free at something like Drow lv 15 or so. I think either is fine, but I prefer the second option. Means not as much scripting as the ability doesnt have to be altered, and that ICly, it makes it seem like a skill or ability a Drow gets as they becomes older/more powerful/etc. IIRC, the extra Drow abilities, like levitation and faerie fire, are stuff noble drow more likely have due to more training and emphasis on their natural abilities.

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Oh I wasn't in favor of adding the spell, that would have to be left to a request. I was just mentioning it as the only thing I could find that lowers SR, and even then it's a low level spell with a Fort check which means it's readily resisted at higher levels.


I like the ideas you presented on the options, I'll expand below:

Faerie Fire

• I completely forgot there is a -2 AB on it. That would probably be something best bestowed on a drow of an appropriate level. I know in PnP it doesn't confer a -2 AB, so doing it at a certain ECL seems to make more sense, plus less scripting and such. It doesn't really need to scale anyways, and the level it was bestowed can be altered (even bestowing it at becoming an Epic Character would be fitting).

Spell Resistance

• I am referring to all Spell Resistance. I think the most valid point is that we're considering drow SR as good enough for ECL+1. No arguments there. Like DI said, though, lowering the SR, especially by 10, cheapens that (-10 SR is a 25% reduction in a max level drow's SR, it gets worse at lower levels). Monk SR is already not affected, so that's not a concern, but my next thought is to consider that all SR is not affected by Mord's.
  
  The only question is have is, why not have SR from items be able to be reduced via Mord's? It actually would be in line with the spell itself (it's disjoins all magic, and affects items). Messing with stripping items would be way too far, so if it just lowered an item's SR (like the epic items going from 32 to 22, or some other lesser drop) it would replicate that in a way. I'm not sold on that idea, I think it's more fair to just make it so all SR is immune to be reduced, but I figured I would throw it in there.

Dancing Lights

• I only now noticed this as one of the drow spell-like abilities. We could add this as well. It does absolutely nothing except act like a cool little light spell, but it could be nice for flavor. I can imagine my gal would love playing with the dancing lights, unless she wishes to be more unseen. It would just be a neat trick for drow to have that wouldn't affect Balance at all.

In the end, I'm just looking for neat ways to make drow more drow-like without making them OP. I don't think any of the proposed changes would push them to that level, so that's good :3 Plus, one or two (the skill thing and SR) can be handy for everyone.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

I find it surprising that Amian drow supposedly shouldn't be changed, yet no comparison has been made to Amia's svirfneblin and their notable differences from their PnP cousins (-1 LA for -1 Dodge AC and an extra -2 Con).

Couldn't you stomach SR 6+CL, or the removal of your precious +2 to Will versus Spells?

Would love to remove the +2 Will saves vs spells. (But isnt that an elf racial and thus is hardcoded?)

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

So basically you are saying that you won't be happy unless drow are dropped to ECL+1? Good to know.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Well that's ONE way to completely invalidate my entire post.

It may be "Canon" for drow to have +2ECL but as with a majority of amia's subraces, they have been subject to change and/or been home-brewn completely.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

As a player of two Earth Genasi, why they aren't +1 ECL still is beyond me.

I'd still play them with +1 ECL.

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Why not give them the same stats as regular elves and ditch the ECL entirely...?

Because you'd make all the sorcerers and wizards sad. You monster.

Earth Genasi having Level adjustment didn't stop people from making a lot of them. And I'm saying that as someone who DM'd before the level adjustment for genasi was removed.

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Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess

This topic appears to be going in circles now, so I'm putting it out to pasture - the answer to this was already given on page two or so.

That said, I do agree with some of the points raised over class scaling and how they're affected by drow ECL. Palemaster Winterwight especially. We'll have a look into it.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."