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Sorry... I should have clarified what I meant, my fault.

When I said that I have seen people do it, I meant it was an IC thing... but it lead to problems IC, that some say were ooc, like trolling and whatnot. So if it is allowed IC, it stands to reason players will continue doing what they do.

Basically a.. "whats good for the goose good for the gander" thing. Just an observation.

serbiris wrote:

Yeah corruption and lack of oversight is perfectly IC. Or maybe I'm too used to playing a Jarl Warden...

HEY HEY HEY NOW. We're not corrupt. We're....brusque.

Also, yes, it's probably an IC thing, not an OOC thing. The best thing in that instance is screenies. If you feel it's OOC, send it to a DM. The -absolute worst- that will happen is that they'll tell you it's not.

I'm not sure how they'd go about enforcing it for the other side, though. Since really...it's their land, and at the end of the day it's their rules.

Quote:

Sorry... I should have clarified what I meant, my fault.

When I said that I have seen people do it, I meant it was an IC thing... but it lead to problems IC, that some say were ooc, like trolling and whatnot. So if it is allowed IC, it stands to reason players will continue doing what they do.

Basically a.. "whats good for the goose good for the gander" thing. Just an observation.

Absolutely. My own character's trolling (minor in comparison to a lot of what is said here) is unlikely to change based on this. I think the issue stems from metagaming of the NPC guards, but there are some who are also arguing against the apparent PvPer mentality among a lot of Dale troublemakers (as well as disagreements over what constitutes metagaming of NPC guards). I say apparent because in a lot of cases we can't really know for sure, and PvP is a valid aspect of RP anyway. But that's a heated issue and there's not much I can really say on it. I realise I'm summarising the issues a great deal but that's because I'm tired and hindered by the fact that I don't really care.

*A revised copy replaces the original*

Citizens,

Travel the Skull Crags with extreme caution. Stronger trolls have apparently moved into the region and pose a danger to travellers and adventurers.

Please do not underestimate this threat. We lost some of our regular duty militia today in defense of the Dale and mourn their loss. Officer Skit has reinforced the eastern point to keep an eye on the threat.

If you see any unusual activity from the trolls, report it to the Militia immediately. Please don't engage any unusual trolls on your own.

~~Private Finntram Springhand

*The militia notice has been removed from the public and posted separately for militia personnel only*

To my fellow Militia,

We should take this threat seriously. Regular trolls equipped with quality items and a much stronger breed of trolls may cause us quite a few unique problems, including attacking our eastern border, ambushing travellers, and the potential to breed even faster out of control.

On top of this, according to a magically interrogated troll, the trolls are being forced by their stronger kin or whoever is ultimately controlling them to dig somewhere. We can't assume they'll think like normal trolls and need to find out what their goal is.
Theories include expansion of territory, disrupting the leyline node, and potentially digging under the Dale.

I highly recommend that no one go out alone to the trolls right now. While we come up with an ultimate plan of action, we should make a point to watch our eastern flank and have an emergency plan of action ready in case we are struck by trolls from a tunnel.

Per Laurel's advice, it'd be best not to alarm the entire Dale due to unproven theories for now. Let's try not to panic the citizens without knowing what's going on.

Private Finntram Springhand, Officer Skit Gwil

Name: Wilimac Merrymar
Race: Lightfoot Hin
Faith: The Lady Who Smiles, Tymora
Length of Residence: 9 Months, but frequent wanderings.
Name of the Nominee: Laurel Beestinger

A bloody and battered Officer Skit Gwil adds her signature below Finntram's before returning to her post.

*Finntram took the original report and edited a few details, separating the militia portion from the public so as not to panic anyone with theories that yet have no evidence*

After being seen in a brief meeting with Finn, Laurel goes over to see who she can offer healing to, including but not limited to Officer Skit. She brings some freshly cooked meals to the Militia members, offering warm words of comfort to each individually.

Quote:
Name: Wally Williams
Race: Rock Gnome
Faith: Garl Glittergold
Length of Residence: Four months
Name of the Nominee: Rori Beestinger

The Dale (outside the walls) used to be a great Hub for RP, especially Bartering RP but also opposition and conflict RP. It was the place for all types to come and RP for better or worst The dale at that time was neutral and not law ridden.

maglorine wrote:

You want to say the laws are only enforced inside the walls? That’s basically giving up and the reason I’ve always enforced what’s written, (which was already written when Missus took over as Mayor). Watch the Dales RP get eaten alive as Banites start having bake sales and conversion ceremonies right outside the gates. Necromancers, chromatics, mass murderers, and Cyricists hold “debate night” right on the main road near the orchard. Sorry, I can't ignore that ICly, I have to do what my PC would do.....

Problem here is that all those are all but extinct and the great conflict and opposition RP they all provided

maglorine wrote:

Loitering ban? The roleplay dried up because every time you enforce it, people just left and never came back. They never came inside the Walls. This solution solved the PvP problem by depopulating the area.

Is this what was wanted for the Dale? Do you just want the Dale to be a social RP place with little if any interactive and unexpected RP with just a few same minded people or have more diverse RP with more involved.

Godo wrote:

The Dale (outside the walls) used to be a great Hub for RP, especially Bartering RP but also opposition and conflict RP.

You say that like it's a good thing. Which OOC, I suppose it could be. But characters are supposed to act out of IC motivations, and IC, the Dale has no interest in fostering "opposition and conflict." They're a bunch of farmers and merchants who just want to go about their lives in peace.

Are we trying to fix a problem IC, or OOC?

Liz wrote:

Godo wrote:

The Dale (outside the walls) used to be a great Hub for RP, especially Bartering RP but also opposition and conflict RP.

You say that like it's a good thing. Which OOC, I suppose it could be. But characters are supposed to act out of IC motivations, and IC, the Dale has no interest in fostering "opposition and conflict." They're a bunch of farmers and merchants who just want to go about their lives in peace.

As merchants and farmers wouldn’t they want more people to sell and trade with? Peace is not achieved by making laws outside the walls that create enemies that you would be more neutral to through bartering.

They're not going to trade with someone who they know will turn around and bite them on the ass in the future, regardless if they want more trade.

Gobbledygook wrote:

Are we trying to fix a problem IC, or OOC?

Both, I think? "We need some DM attention here" isn't a problem that can be resolved IC. "Evil characters need an RP hub so they have other options than to screw up ours" can be at least partially addressed IC, though probably not by Daler characters. I think a lot of RuffTuff's original point was that the IC solutions that have been tried haven't seemed to improve the situation.

666WaysToHell wrote:

They're not going to trade with someone who they know will turn around and bite them on the ass in the future, regardless if they want more trade.

You set up a well maintained trading environment then even evil will respect the benefits such neutrality offers, allot more so then aliening with one side or the other. Do not get involved with the conflicts between evil and good but instead maintain and enforce a reasonable neutral trading outpost

There's definitely a need for a place like that, Godo. But the Dale isn't it. Indifference between evil and good just isn't something one can reasonably expect out of a town of halflings, especially one with the sort of IC leadership the Dale has.

And...evil -has- RP hubs. A couple of them, at least, very open. I say this as a staunch evil-loving player.

*Missus is seen thanking Skit for her service and offering words of encouragement to the Eastern Regiment. She dons her scouting attire and heads further East to reconnoiter the situation. Hours later she returns, looking none the worse for wear but seems to come back empty handed, save for a grim look and dusty boots*

Godo wrote:

666WaysToHell wrote:

They're not going to trade with someone who they know will turn around and bite them on the ass in the future, regardless if they want more trade.

You set up a well maintained trading environment then even evil will respect the benefits such neutrality offers, allot more so then aliening with one side or the other. Do not get involved with the conflicts between evil and good but instead maintain and enforce a reasonable neutral trading outpost

Again, this is what Kampo's was supposed to be. But some evil just utterly refuses to respect anything and thus fights happen. And hellballs come. And those filthy drow in that shrine have to come to the rescue and rebuild everything.

And, as Liz pointed out, a primarily halfling village, whose other inhabitants include a bunch of gnomes and a dwarf or three, just aren't going to be neutral toward blatant evil.

Oh your right, we can’t have all those filthy drow come and produce allot of rebuilding RP. Your supper extremist position that only the obvious good like-minded people are permitted in the area has limited the Dale to just a social RP area only. You even chase away those who try to defend a differing opinion about others you do not like either IC or OOC.

Amia is indeed a RP server but that doesn’t mean you have to be or unbending IC that you get rid of all other types of RP. Lets take Godo as a example shall we.

Godo has many times tried to get his ban lifted so he can create some trade there and instead of bending your view to have some differing play there you hold even tighter on his ban, I am not totally convinced that its all for IC reasons since none of you can tell him specifically what he has done inside the dale to warrant it.

You all claim he has murdered others there and in other places, as even the DMs and most players know Godo has never killed another player except in self defense and even then was very rare. You all say he is a slaver and while that may indeed be true he has never caught anyone in the dale and when he did catch someone he typically took them to the dale to sell cheaply so they can be released in some RP manner. You claim he threatens and insults the hin so the ban can not be lifted, he’s a goblin, that’s what he does and why would you all ban over insults and threats, or even ban for what is done away from the dale?

Godo is not the only one you have done in this manner, to make the Dale nothing more then a personal click social area. Most times when huge fights have happened there it is not the outsiders causing it but your own strict laws and attempts to enforce those laws outside the walls without consideration of others characters and their cultures

You need to stop chasing away players that do not fit into your clicks but instead encourage diversity in all of its manners

Slavetrade in general is not a welcomed thing to my knowledge. The things listed for Godo makes sense to me why that Halfling settlement would not want the character around.

IC a settlement has the right to enforce their rules and how they want things to be. That is my opinion. If characters conflicting their ways want to be around those people they have to play nice or face the consequences.

Last edited by Elyon on Sat, Sep 07 2013, 15:46 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Godo wrote:

Oh your right, we can’t have all those filthy drow come and produce allot of rebuilding RP. Your supper extremist position that only the obvious good like-minded people are permitted in the area has limited the Dale to just a social RP area only. You even chase away those who try to defend a differing opinion about others you do not like either IC or OOC.

Amia is indeed a RP server but that doesn’t mean you have to be or unbending IC that you get rid of all other types of RP. Lets take Godo as a example shall we.

Godo has many times tried to get his ban lifted so he can create some trade there and instead of bending your view to have some differing play there you hold even tighter on his ban, I am not totally convinced that its all for IC reasons since none of you can tell him specifically what he has done inside the dale to warrant it.

You all claim he has murdered others there and in other places, as even the DMs and most players know Godo has never killed another player except in self defense and even then was very rare. You all say he is a slaver and while that may indeed be true he has never caught anyone in the dale and when he did catch someone he typically took them to the dale to sell cheaply so they can be released in some RP manner. You claim he threatens and insults the hin so the ban can not be lifted, he’s a goblin, that’s what he does and why would you all ban over insults and threats, or even ban for what is done away from the dale?

Godo is not the only one you have done in this manner, to make the Dale nothing more then a personal click social area. Most times when huge fights have happened there it is not the outsiders causing it but your own strict laws and attempts to enforce those laws outside the walls without consideration of others characters and their cultures

You need to stop chasing away players that do not fit into your clicks but instead encourage diversity in all of its manners

We can't really bend it backwards and make IC into an OOC matter with suddenly encouraging different RP by accepting these groups, the laws of the Dale are there which some of us choose to ICly accept and stick with. I honestly don't think we're chasing away players but some things just have to come first. Perfectly IC.
If you do think OOC has really had a big influence on this you should report it and so on... However from experience, influence of IC friends is the general opinion of a person even if these rumours are true or not. Perfectly IC. Bad reputation = bad situation. Unfortunately it's just how things work.
Keep on fighting your case to lift that ban. The Dale would rather hear about something along these lines: "I won't do it again..." bla bla.. rather than an arugement: "This is unfair because it's corrupt, silly and biased" and so on because well...(IMO) reasoning is sometimes futile . I think a lot of us want to hear (for example:) Godo to really swear to it and make a change but note that you can't always get the approval of everyone.

And that also goes for others that keep coming to the Dale and has a record of causing trouble (or rumored to keep causing trouble)... apologizing and making amends/changing works!

Dale holding such a strict IC ideology without considering other RP options outside their walls may be IC wise a good idea for the dale but OOC wise is harmful to them and Amia as a whole by chasing away many types of groups in Amia. The Dale populace has become totally bloodthirsty towards any adversaries, from what I have witnessed it is them that have become more evil then the evil they say they are against.

I have attempted many times to create non aggressive although not so friendly RP there but all I get is be like them or you can not enjoy RPing in the dale, instead its leave or we kill you attitude.

Godo has been told, ICly over and over and over again, that as long as he holds on to his allegiances, he will not be welcome in the Dale. For trade or anything else. It's really that simple. If he wants to come trade, he has got to show us he's willing to change.

Sound like you do not want other characters around at all unless they act and become like those in your group. You all keep expanding Dale territory that also expands the elimination of alternative characters.

I am again using Godo as an example but it goes with other Characters as well. You say he will be welcomed by saying sorry and will never do bad things ever again, he is a Goblin and will do bad things, to force me to not do such things means I should get rid of him and just create a hin. Why can’t you accept (even if you do not like in an IC way) the characters of what they are. As long as they are not trying to go inside the walls then why not allow them to be around as long as they are not trying to kill someone. Expanding your strict laws outside your walls actually creates more problems then it solves.

You are so strict on these that even a good hearted somewhat dim half Orc with a great axe on his shoulder is unwelcome there, and no there is no such thing as a sheath for a great axe, it is meant to be carried on his shoulder. You have become so unbending and strict you do not take into consideration varying situations.

It’s not only Evil you are against because Erok is very far away from being Evil but because of his axe alone he is not welcomed. Seriously people, why are you so strict in laws that you even get rid of a more friendly and helpful character as Erok? You need to examine all this closely.

Zedrik wrote:

Godo has been told, ICly over and over and over again, that as long as he holds on to his allegiances, he will not be welcome in the Dale. For trade or anything else. It's really that simple. If he wants to come trade, he has got to show us he's willing to change.

That’s the whole problem right there with the Dale now, you either be as we are and only have alliances we agree with or just go away and never return, your no longer allowed to RP with us because we will kill you because you are not one of us

Godo wrote:

Zedrik wrote:

Godo has been told, ICly over and over and over again, that as long as he holds on to his allegiances, he will not be welcome in the Dale. For trade or anything else. It's really that simple. If he wants to come trade, he has got to show us he's willing to change.

That’s the whole problem right there with the Dale now, you either be as we are and only have alliances we agree with or just go away and never return, your no longer allowed to RP with us because we will kill you because you are not one of us

Ah, here's where a problem lies: IIRC, the claimed alliegance was to Drow Slavers, a malign faction whom desire nothing but to enslave and to take prisoners to be sold to the highest bidder in the Underdark or beyond.

There's a difference between what you claim and the reality, the Reality is Godo was allied at one point to a faction whom wanted nothing but to take up folks as slaves ,that does kinda not sit well.

I have seen Tarkuulians outside the Dale (perhaps not nescessarily openly identified Tarkuulians) whom haven't been harassed.

The walls proper are not the limit of the Dale's territory or authority. The Law sign dictates this, and it's not unusual either to expect the militia to guard the immediate area outside the walls. We're not going to sit around while people kill each other right next to our homes, or while known criminals like Godo hang around to cause trouble.

Just because you want to hang out where it's popular doesn't mean you can if your character has built up such IC consequences.

What if Kohlingen were the most popular spot? Would all the tieflings and other evils be complaining it was unfair?

I don't know if Godo is your only character, but you may considering a couple alternative characters so you're not limited to your roleplay due to the consequences of Godo's evil acts.

As for strictness like weapons being wielded around the Dale, if you object - okay then... *shrug* That's an IC issue though. We're not purposely trolling people OOC here with the laws. These are IC considerations with IC feelings and IC consequences - Don't take it so bloody personally.

Let me put it as simply as I can: If the Dale does stuff that makes it less popular, isn't that the Dale's issue? Let's not make this an OOC issue by dragging everyone else into this.

I remember when the forest used to be the most popular hangout by the leyline until the forest was thickened. Ultimately these places arise from where people start to gather. Build it and they will come and whatnot. If just a few people start to hang out in a place, others will instinctively collect. It's what's happened at the Dale, and it can happen anywhere.

Players who choose to play monster races should understand the pros and cons of making such a choice. Making that choice while simultaneously demanding that others bend their roleplay to defeat one of the drawbacks of making that choice isn't the way it works.

There is a goblin who's been accepted and welcomed in the Dale. Why was he successful in accomplishing this feat while Godo up until now hasn't been? Does it have to do with the effort the player put into achieving that status? Was it the content of that particular Goblin's character?

You can say you are being true to your characters persona by not bending over backwards or subjugating your PC to take the actions necessary to accomplish this. That's fine, but the flip side of the coin is also true. Halflings, Gnomes, and Fey who are suspicious or even hostile to goblinkind have a right to be true to their characters persona and demand IC actions and roleplay to acheive accepted status. If your character has a history of hostility or evil actions then even more will be required to gain the trust of the populace. It's going to be hard work, as well it should be.

This is a pure bred monster race, one which has caused trouble in the area before on a mass scale. Even a half breed like a half orc is going to garner more initial acceptance than a goblin.

maglorine wrote:

Players who choose to play monster races should understand the pros and cons of making such a choice. Making that choice while simultaneously demanding that others bend their roleplay to defeat one of the drawbacks of making that choice isn't the way it works.

There is a goblin who's been accepted and welcomed in the Dale. Why was he successful in accomplishing this feat while Godo up until now hasn't been? Does it have to do with the effort the player put into achieving that status? Was it the content of that particular Goblin's character?

You can say you are being true to your characters persona by not bending over backwards or subjugating your PC to take the actions necessary to accomplish this. That's fine, but the flip side of the coin is also true. Halflings, Gnomes, and Fey who are suspicious or even hostile to goblinkind have a right to be true to their characters persona and demand IC actions and roleplay to acheive accepted status. If your character has a history of hostility or evil actions then even more will be required to gain the trust of the populace. It's going to be hard work, as well it should be.

This is a pure bred monster race, one which has caused trouble in the area before on a mass scale. Even a half breed like a half orc is going to garner more initial acceptance than a goblin.

You misunderstand my intent with Godo. Am not looking to be accepted like being a friendly goblin, indeed he should not be trusted or accepted in that manner. What I and I assume others like him want is to be allowed to RP the character without being chased away or constantly attacked and killed for no other reason then being who he is. Be mean and dislike him, by all means that is how he should be treated but what is wrong with RPing in that context without eliminating such all together.

Does everyone around the Dale have to be friendly to be allowed in the area at all? If so then you are missing out on allot of RP possibilities not only for Godo but also the players in the dale as well.

There's again a difference between mildly cantankerous and unfriendly, and a outright threat to the Civilian Populace and anyone else in the area.

That and all goblinoids are banned from the Dale, not just Godo individually.

Indeed, as Grymia says, Godo is a direct threat to the population.

On top of that, maybe we're missing out on 'RP' opportunities, but that's our problem.

The militia has the right to defend their home and to remove monsters, and just because you want to stick around and RP doesn't mean you can. Like Maglorine said, if you play a monster race, you have to accept the stigma that comes with it.

I'll be honest here - At least ICly, Godo seems like an attention whore that's putting the lives of the Dale at risk with his presence, so he's going to be chased off when he comes around, and he's likely never going to be trusted because of all he's done.

If you want to RP in the Dale, you're going to need another type of character. Plain and simple.

Godo can try disguises.

And while they may miss out on Rp opportunities with Godo and others like him, they're not sacrificing the integrity of their character Rp. To be honest, mate, these are just IC consequences for IC actions.

Actually Godo never has been a threat to the Dale, murder he has not ever anywhere on the server has committed. He is accused of things he never done to be banned for. Basically what you all are saying is that if you play a monster race then do not come to amia to play since they all have been and will be chased away

Unjust accusations and racial prejudice are pretty realistic. No one ever said that what's IC has to be fair. If that really is a problem for you then yeah, play a different race or something. Sorry. I mean, I deal with it myself. It should be frustrating for the character but if it's a problem for the player, your choice is either to appeal to other players (who are within their right to treat your character like crap if they so choose) or leave the situation.

Mind you, if there are cases where you believe characters are behaving in a way contrary to their apparent alignment, class or faith, you're welcome to screenshot and send it to DMs. We all love a good Fall/Redemption story.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

And while they may miss out on Rp opportunities with Godo and others like him, they're not sacrificing the integrity of their character Rp. To be honest, mate, these are just IC consequences for IC actions.

I am more than willing to take IC consequences of actions done IC. You do something that goes against the laws of an establishment and get caught, it goes without saying you will pay the price. It is what what makes playing a "baddie" so alluring to some people because it requires them to be clever and not to get caught.

Roleplay is severely limited for monster races like Goblins and Chromatics, or even people who just want to twirl their mustaches nefariously and openly display their evil streak. I have played both types of characters, and the one who openly displays her evil nature was banned from Bendir Dale. I have no issues with this. I do not expect anyone to turn a blind eye to my characters actions just so that I wont be banned from an establishment. The ban was completely warranted and expected on both IC and OOC terms.

The issue doesn't lie in being banished from Bendir Dale. The issue lies in being banned from the ONLY location for certain characters to find any kind of RP. I am fine with IC consequences, but when I was banned from Bendir Dale, it felt more like an OOC punishment because I was now excluded from the ONLY place I could find any RP. I don't expect Bendir Dale to change their policies or sacrifice their integrity for an OOC issue, but at the same time by not providing a neutral area for openly evil characters, you are essentially asking THEM to change their integrity by either:
1. Giving up on the character because they can't find RP, or,
2. Hide their openly evil nature so as NOT to be banned, thus completely compromising the purpose or intention of being openly evil in the first place.

IB4 "just go to Tarkuul." When there is RP to be had in Tarkuul, it is fun and engaging, but it is sparse and hard to be found. Not to mention, the kind of RP that most openly evil character want is conflict RP with good-aligned characters.

Again, I have no problem with being banned from Bendir Dale. It just isn't any fun when I can't continue to RP being "bad" because there is no one to RP with. No one travels the roads to rob or kidnap or victimize, no one goes to Kampo's, no one leaves any of the major RP "hubs" that openly evil characters are banned from.

Well, what can we do about that, really? On an IC level it's all perfectly reasonable and I'm sure no one is arguing against that (ie, Bendir Dale wants to ban undesirables, the people living there want to avoid undesirables). On an OOC level, the reason some players hang around Bendir Dale is to avoid the conflict that other players enjoy. It sucks from your perspective, I absolutely agree. But shifting RP hubs isn't easy. The only thing I can think of is to start hanging around Kampo's, possibly with a mate or two, and hope that a spark strikes and it snowballs from there (mixing metaphors is fun!). You're probably not the only player who would prefer to hang around where conflict is more an option, I mean I for one am not really picky about which of the accessible RP hubs I go to (spoiler alert: if I'm bored and on Amia, I check outside Bendir, then Kampo's, and then a few other areas nearby looking for people who I'm likely to have RP with).

Sure, you'll miss out on those who have IC or OOC reasons not to leave the Dale, at least at first, but if Dale RP dries up I imagine a few will trundle over to Kampo's - it's just a cart ride away, after all!

If people are complaining that there aren't any evil rp locations, have you tried attempting to build a playerbase there? I know Dead is trying to do that with Tarkuul. Bendir just happens to have a bountiful and active playerbase.

For RP of ALL sorts, you require a place that's 100% neutral. Does such a place on Amia even exist?

Cordor is going crazy lately and with all the restrictions, it's become much less populated, whereas it was by definition the most neutral RP place on Amia before that.
Bendir is against monstrous evil races and have to defend their home.
Kohlingen is more restrictive against evil.
Winya is mostly just for the elves.
The Shrine has the stigma of prejudice against drow.
The Grove is fairly introverted.
Tarkuul is obviously neutral to evil characters.

What else is there though? Plunty, actually. You just need to start hovering around an area for it to start to get a reputation as a social destination.
Kampo's is the most obvious, and to anyone that says it's not a popular spot hasn't been paying attention. Because of two carts and the boat to the Salandran temple, it is as much a hub as Bendir is. Sure there have been fights outside sometimes, but inside is guarded by golems and is 100% neutral. Furthermore, it's not (to my knowledge) officially guarded by any PC authority that can tell you to get the hell out.
Don't forget Wharftown, Uhm, or some of the other little areas around too.

I'm not accusing anyone in particular here, but I'll say this - There are options out there. Don't ignore them because you're too impatient to wait for people to arrive that you have to go harass areas that you're not allowed.

You cant really claim Kampo's is a place that could be put back to a neutral place for RP now... because as it was said IG, Kampo's is now under the domain of the drow of Ellistraee. So you cant have people there, with obvious allegiances that are less than reputable, because Kampo's would once again get blown up, and be a hot spot for turmoil.

As far as the trading thing goes... Faerun has always thrived under one very important thing. Trade. Merchants and commerce have been the backbone of every Torilian civilization since Shar and Selune's first battles created the world. You cant say Evil and good can not trade, because it was a staple in waterdeep, a notoriously "good" city, that it was common to find Dwarves haggling with orcs over the prices of wares on the docks, and taverns. Trade is trade, business is business. It is the character and what they do, that can mess it up.

Also, I would have to say... that goblins are a monster race, yes, they are by nature evil most of the time, and have a reputation as untrustworthy and whatnot.... but the drow have a far worse reputation than goblins, kobalds, orcs banites sharans and cyrists combined I would think, lol, and drow are welcome in Bendir, so long as they have a pin. If you are going to go by reputations, then everyone but hins dwarves gnomes and fey should be banned perhaps.

But there was a point made. There is a bit of "clique" mentality in some places, and it leads to occ hurt feelings when it is encountered, which leads to more trouble.

IntheCoconut wrote:

Mr. Hackums wrote:

And while they may miss out on Rp opportunities with Godo and others like him, they're not sacrificing the integrity of their character Rp. To be honest, mate, these are just IC consequences for IC actions.

I am more than willing to take IC consequences of actions done IC. You do something that goes against the laws of an establishment and get caught, it goes without saying you will pay the price. It is what what makes playing a "baddie" so alluring to some people because it requires them to be clever and not to get caught.

Roleplay is severely limited for monster races like Goblins and Chromatics, or even people who just want to twirl their mustaches nefariously and openly display their evil streak. I have played both types of characters, and the one who openly displays her evil nature was banned from Bendir Dale. I have no issues with this. I do not expect anyone to turn a blind eye to my characters actions just so that I wont be banned from an establishment. The ban was completely warranted and expected on both IC and OOC terms.

The issue doesn't lie in being banished from Bendir Dale. The issue lies in being banned from the ONLY location for certain characters to find any kind of RP. I am fine with IC consequences, but when I was banned from Bendir Dale, it felt more like an OOC punishment because I was now excluded from the ONLY place I could find any RP. I don't expect Bendir Dale to change their policies or sacrifice their integrity for an OOC issue, but at the same time by not providing a neutral area for openly evil characters, you are essentially asking THEM to change their integrity by either:
1. Giving up on the character because they can't find RP, or,
2. Hide their openly evil nature so as NOT to be banned, thus completely compromising the purpose or intention of being openly evil in the first place.

IB4 "just go to Tarkuul." When there is RP to be had in Tarkuul, it is fun and engaging, but it is sparse and hard to be found. Not to mention, the kind of RP that most openly evil character want is conflict RP with good-aligned characters.

Again, I have no problem with being banned from Bendir Dale. It just isn't any fun when I can't continue to RP being "bad" because there is no one to RP with. No one travels the roads to rob or kidnap or victimize, no one goes to Kampo's, no one leaves any of the major RP "hubs" that openly evil characters are banned from.

Thank you for articulating what I have been failing to do. It indeed is the point I been trying to get across.

I have tried to avoid Dale and roamed all over the place for hours without seeing anyone at all. Lately I have been popping up inside Cordor now and then since the DM there has been allowing me to do so in a limited fashion.

Good is always in a struggle to vanquish evil and sadly it looks like it has done so in Amia.
Evil on the other hand is not out to vanquish good. It instead uses good for its own purposes of greed, control, or any number of things to fulfill its selfish goals.

What kind of interactive RP does good have without evil to combat?

I hate to repeat myself, but while I agree that your inability to find a community that accepts you IC has got to be frustrating... to be perfectly blunt, it's just not the Dale's problem. OOC, I feel your pain, but IC, the issue is doomed to go precisely nowhere. If that means the Dale is shooting itself in the foot, then so be it. But it seems incredibly unlikely to me that the Dalers are going to change their minds about it.

No, it’s not the Dales problem it’s all of Amias problem. Having both evil and good thriving and interacting creates player-based events and excitement. Now it’s the DMs that must create events in the world to keep excitement and fun value to Amia when it used to be a wide diverse player base that did that.

Some, indeed many that are left, find value in social RP only. That is fine and good on its own merits but to eliminate other types of RP so the social RP is not disrupted is harmful to all of Amia.

I kind of feel sorry for the DMs because they have the hard work to keep things exciting for a player base that is devoid of those who helped create the uncertainty and excitement the DMs now have to provide on their own.

For Office and Militia Eyes:

New developments in the situation of the trolls!

The source and purpose behind the enchanted and newer trolls has been discovered. Here's what we now know:

- The trolls are being led by a man named "Gregor".
- They are ferrying trolls in and people from Udos.
- Kurchin followed some down into the underdark where they fled deeper and got away.
- These apparent cultists and some of the trolls in their service bulge with black veins and great strength. They can apparently overload, causing their blood to burst and kill them. My instinct is some sort of necromantic magic, but this has not yet been verified. (The reason behind my guess you'll see shortly)

Add to this what we already know:

- Trolls are being armed and reinforced with tools given to them by humans.
- Trolls are digging against their will for something.
- The goal is apparently an artifact.

And lastly, add to that a Coat of Arms we discovered:

[[A copy of the Coat of Arms is attached here]]

Virkelith has verified it's origin from an old poem or song. The summary of which is this:

- It involves an evil ruler named "Zenghy, Witch King of Vaasa", who tried to conquer neighbouring countries including Damara, leading an army of demons and orcs many decades ago.
- They were stopped at Castle Perilous by "The Great Gareth Dragonsbane".
- Zenghy, a lich, stored parts of his essence in artifacts.

What can we determine from all this:

- The Dale is not likely a priority target for these cultists and their troll thrawls.
- They are likely after an artifact housing part of the essence of this lich king Zenghy.
- They are reinforcing the trolls in large numbers and enhancing them with tools and self-destructive but powerful spells or potions.

Courses of action:

- Remain highly alert on the eastern check point, keeping Officer Skit's position as solid as possible.
- Encourage gathered adventurers to hunt trolls if there appears to be an impending attack. They're often excited to do so and may find additional information. I do not recommend wasting Dale resources on this venture however.
- I will (unless there are objections) send a letter to the Knights of Kohlingen to inform them of this issue as liches and necromancy will likely get their attention. They will likely lend any additional resources needed to put an end to this crisis and pursue it strongly on their own.
- There is almost no worry of trolls bursting out of holes in the ground now, but we should be ready to sound the alarm if a horde of them overrun any defensive lines.

Summary:

This necromantic cult will only be here while the artifact is. If Kohlingen and local adventurers can be rallied, they can either wipe out the cultist influence, or find and destroy the artifact.
Beyond the danger of the enhanced trolls going wild by our lines, the Dale is hopefully not at serious threat, though we should not be complacent.

Be careful, everyone, and may the Provider watch over you.

Private Finntram Springhand

Compliments for the help and work of:
Crow
Virkelith
Vala
Kurchin
Officer Skit

Addendum #1:
One of the cultists was captured in the most recent attack and taken by adventurers to the Salandran temple for interrogation and to ensure this one doesn't commit suicide. Kurchin and Vala went, though I am unsure who else has attended at this point. I remain at my post in the Dale to ensure our home is protected.

Liz wrote:

I hate to repeat myself, but while I agree that your inability to find a community that accepts you IC has got to be frustrating... to be perfectly blunt, it's just not the Dale's problem. OOC, I feel your pain, but IC, the issue is doomed to go precisely nowhere. If that means the Dale is shooting itself in the foot, then so be it. But it seems incredibly unlikely to me that the Dalers are going to change their minds about it.

I think the reason it has been brought up repeatedly in this thread is because some people identify it as the underlying issue to Bendir Dale.

Sure, you can create stricter rules and consequences to death (which I am all for, by the way), but they are only a band-aid to the much larger problem prevalent on the server, which is the lack of a neutral zone as an RP hub. People are tying to find a solution by increasing the consequences to "trolling" which is all fine and good, but it doesn't resolve the issue causing the trolling.

People in Bendir Dale are complaining that there is trolling. Multiple people have come here to convey their opinion on why people are trolling but aren't getting anywhere because so far, the only response has been "its not my problem" when in actuality, it is the very explanation to their problem. My point and the point of others has been made repeatedly in an attempt to help, and I don't think I have anything more that I can do to help when a fair number of the people here either disagree on what the issue is, or simply don't care enough to fix it. So for now, I'm bowing out because I am already beginning to sound like a broken record, and its clear I have nothing else to offer that might be of aid to helping the situation.

I'm not saying the lack of a neutral RP hub is not my problem. I'm saying it's not my *character's* problem.

Godo wrote:

He is accused of things he never done to be banned for.

This is generally how the rumour mill works and it's perfectly common. Bannings are rarely based on OOC fact even though they most of the time incur OOC consequence such as starvation of RP. In your case it's quite notable as Bendir is the hotspot for much RP. I feel for you, but try to stay positive!

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