AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

The "Gibberling" event is somewhat...well...broken. I rolled a 19 and healed myself for -22 damage?

I sincerely hope that wasn't designed that way on purpose.

Edit: I just double-checked the event. Someone thought it was a GOOD idea to make the boss fight debuff skills by -50? Why would someone think that was a good idea? It makes anyone that depends on skills to heal themselves utterly worthless.

I love it, best fight on the entire server by far. :twisted:

Yes it seems to work just fine to me. I like the quest

I like that encounter, too; it's pretty awesome. But I don't think I ever tried to use a heal kit in that fight. If it does penalize your skills so much that healing kits actually damage you, then, yeah... that's a problem.

If you stand in shit to the point of debuffing your Wisdom so that your Heal skill is decreased by that much there is really no one to blame but yourself.

Your wisdom cannot be debuffed so much to give you a -50 to Heal. It can't even be debuffed to give you a -5 to Heal. If his Heal score was so low, there was something else going on there.

Maybe the creator of said dungeon should look into that instead of insulting the guy's intelligence.

The encounter only does stat drain and direct damage.

Bubbly potion is what, 650gp? No more stat drains!

Once again, new player thinks this is impossible and terrible.

Everyone else in the server who already have knowledge of how things work, where to buy things, and what to do think it's awesome and easy.

Tomato Sword wrote:

Once again, new player thinks this is impossible and terrible.

Everyone else in the server who already have knowledge of how things work, where to buy things, and what to do think it's awesome and easy.

This is becoming a trend, as I'm helping other new players who are becoming increasingly frustrated and considering leaving.

If we're gonna bitch that no new people are showing up, maybe we should work on the fact that it's kind of hell if you don't either have a knowledgeable guide or already know what you're doing.

At this point I've taken to advising them to avoid the quest at all until they are high enough to handle it.

I think grouping up is a better advice.

I did it at lv 9 with 3 others, most of them lower level and it was quite doable save for a tough boss fight that could have gone bad easily. It helps if one of the players present knows the dungeon though and takes the time to convey some information packed in rp to avoid wipes and other nastyness.

Boss fights are really hard on Amia (I think) as the groups I was with allways avoid them at lower levels. It happened to the shadow dragon and the Yuan ti boss as well. We managed that the gibbering one with 4 but it wasnt easy.

The story is awesome though and the mood and setting of that quest were thoroughly enjoyable.

I like seeing new people on Amia. If a new person has a problem or concern, shouldn't we at least attempt to help before blaming them? If I were the OP, I would be a little upset at some of the responses here. I haven't had the same issue they did, but I won't condemn them for feeling the way they do. Perhaps a team member can actually look into their problem a little rather than giving an off handed response. Without players, Amia dies.

My 2 cents.

bidocks wrote:

I like seeing new people on Amia. If a new person has a problem or concern, shouldn't we at least attempt to help before blaming them? If I were the OP, I would be a little upset at some of the responses here. I haven't had the same issue they did, but I won't condemn them for feeling the way they do. Perhaps a team member can actually look into their problem a little rather than giving an off handed response. Without players, Amia dies.

My 2 cents.

^

My only question is did OP do this as a group or solo? Cause Gibbering was designed to be done as a group. What sucks is there's not a lot of people leveling lately, though I blame that on the lag. Number of people online has fluctuated a lot.

Just woke up and read the replies, so let me respond in kind.

Quote:

The encounter only does stat drain and direct damage.

No, it doesn't. My SKILLS were all -50. I looked at my actual skill list. My healing was -42 (because I have 8 ranks in it), so my roll of 19 with a +1 healing kit resulted in "healing" myself for -22 damage.

Quote:

Bubbly potion is what, 650gp? No more stat drains!

Stat drain is fine. I accept that as a difficulty thing. However, the two biggest problems with the encounter that I experienced were that my skills were all hit with a -50 debuff, and despite only having a -2 hit penalty, I was unable to hit any of the Gibberlings unless I rolled a natural 20, which implied that these "special" gibberlings apparently had over 30 AC.

Quote:

Everyone else in the server who already have knowledge of how things work, where to buy things, and what to do think it's awesome and easy.

I don't think that it's a GOOD thing for an encounter to only be winnable if you've been around long enough to exploit a very specific trick that isn't intuitive. I found the entire rest of the dungeon, including the swarming Gibberlings at the end of the second floor, quite enjoyable. I also enjoyed the battle against the Gibberling Mouthers. I am referring to the boss fight with the four portals and the giant summoner.

This isn't simply a complaint about something that was "too hard." The difficulty spike resulting from this battle compared to the rest of the dungeon is extremely jarring. I don't mind a challenge, nor do I mind a dungeon whose difficulty gradually increases until you have to step back and say "Woah, this is getting too tough. I need to come back when I'm stronger."

That's not what happens here. Not only does this boss encounter debuff you so badly that any class relying on skills is basically hosed, but it comes out of nowhere! The entire rest of the dungeon feels challenging but enjoyable, and it draws you in with this exciting storyline where you're eager to find out where the gibberlings are coming from. Then, all of a sudden, you're faced with this boss that is ten times as tough as the fights before him, with gibberings that have 30+ AC and suddenly you find your skills worthless.

It doesn't feel like a challenge, it feels like a cruel trap for beginners...like putting an ancient wyrm at the end of a goblin dungeon.

That sounds like a bug, actually...

There's a script that applies -50 to a character's pickpocket, this is done to prevent use of regular pickpocket so a character uses the given pickpocket widget instead. This is the only thing in the module I know of which applies -50 to any skill.

Does the character who suffered the -50 heal have any ranks in pickpocket? Are they light sensitive?

The1Kobra wrote:

That sounds like a bug, actually...

There's a script that applies -50 to a character's pickpocket, this is done to prevent use of regular pickpocket so a character uses the given pickpocket widget instead. This is the only thing in the module I know of which applies -50 to any skill.

Does the character who suffered the -50 heal have any ranks in pickpocket? Are they light sensitive?

No. The -50 was applied to all skills by some sort of debuff during that fight. The bigger gibberlings have a debuffing aura, but it never did that to my healing skill before. This is being done by a Strongheart halfling, so no light sensitivity.

P Three wrote:

This is becoming a trend, as I'm helping other new players who are becoming increasingly frustrated and considering leaving.

I hadn't even bothered registering until now because I am one of those people (Magical Master on Bioware boards and GSID), but I figured I should support what P Three is saying since she has been extraordinarily helpful in game. My problem isn't even mechanical difficulty (Sorcerer 16 at the moment) but instead trying to figure out things like where to go and weird systems like the door bashing thing.

So far I've had enough fun exploring the world that I've put up with a lot of stuff, but there have been plenty of times when my blood has been boiling - often due to a complete lack of information that is readily accessible (for example, there are apparently no immunity items or permahaste - would be useful to know that before making a character).

Incidentally, I soloed the Gibberlings at level 7-8, I believe, and had no issues using Healing Kits - so it's not a universal problem.

The skill debuff definitely sounds like a bug and it's never happened to me. Bugs happen, it's not the fault of the designer nor an indication of a serious failure of design, but it would have been more constructive if people responding to the thread had reached the conclusion and transmitted it sooner.

Eh. I get the complaints about it but I think it pretty much comes with the territory. Gibbering Maw is probably one of the more interesting dungeons because of its unusual design features. It is a huge change from the typical "run in and kill all the things" where the only risk of dying in an otherwise level-appropriate area is from a monster pulling a trick you didn't expect, the occasional doublespawn, or the still-bugged traps in the Underdark (please, please fix them, they are still there. Remember that since most of the Underdark races have ECL, average HP is a lot lower and traveling with a trap-spotter in one of the least-populated early zones in the entire module is unfeasible). You can't "fix" the Gibbering Maw without breaking what makes it special, so if you really don't like it it's best to avoid the place. There's no special trick to it other than the fact that it's best approached with a great deal of caution and with the expectation of unusual surprises, and you probably shouldn't do it alone (I thought there was a warning in-game not to attempt it alone, but I might be misremembering). Because server population is a bit down to begin with, people are more likely to be caught soloing.

But I think the frustration does stem from the fact that it's highly atypical and its scripts leave it prone to bugging. When it came out, the posts about it did explicitly advertise that it's Not Your Average Dungeon but everyone who missed it won't know about that until they get in. But I don't think I've ever played a game where there weren't dungeons you wander into and get slaughtered in because of unexpected difficulty spike, so this is most certainly not an isolated problem. I imagine I'm less bothered by it because I'm used to it personally. Some people actually consider it a compelling feature of exploration, other people find it phenomenally frustrating. Fair enough. The solution was brought up - find a way to subtly indicate difficulty level of an area. Thoughts?

I stated my reply as I did because I'm honestly tired of people making assumptions and saying that things are broken. None of he boss's abilities do skill drain. The gibberlings that spawn during the encounter are exactly the same ones that spawn in the rest of the dungeon including the ones with the Doom auras that spawn in the second level and beyond. Tue Doom aura does decrease attack bonus among other things so that is why it may seem like their AC is suddenly uber but it really isn't. Thats also one of the reasons why having a group for this dungeon and this fight inparticular is so important; the Doom aura has a relaticely low save so even if one person fails their save againzt it chances are there will be another who still has full AB.

Okay, but how could a player possibly find their skills reduced to -50? That's the largest skill reduction possible, which definitely seems like the sort of thing a bug would cause. It's possible that the -50 came as a result of some sort of glitch in the character sheet but where the char sheet fails, the engine shouldn't - and the engine would have correctly calculated all the modifiers to produce a -22 heal check. So it has to be a bug. I get that you're frustrated by the assumptions but it seems extremely unlikely that the player in question could've made a mistake, while it's entirely possible that the bug snuck in. There were a number of large changes to the module since the GibMaw was implemented, including a dynamic plugin (which Sune made mention of the possibility that it would bork things unexpectedly), so isn't it more likely that a bug is responsible for a problem here?

Glim wrote:

I stated my reply as I did because I'm honestly tired of people making assumptions and saying that things are broken. None of he boss's abilities do skill drain. The gibberlings that spawn during the encounter are exactly the same ones that spawn in the rest of the dungeon including the ones with the Doom auras that spawn in the second level and beyond. Tue Doom aura does decrease attack bonus among other things so that is why it may seem like their AC is suddenly uber but it really isn't. Thats also one of the reasons why having a group for this dungeon and this fight inparticular is so important; the Doom aura has a relaticely low save so even if one person fails their save againzt it chances are there will be another who still has full AB.

Please do not tell me that my skills were not low, or that I somehow missed something. I went back and died to this event a second time specifically to confirm it after looking back at the logs to find out why my HP dropped so rapidly when I used my healing kit.

My skill list showed that ALL of my skills were suffering from a -50 penalty. ALL OF THEM. The skills that are normally 0 or lower showed up as -50, while those with points on them were -50 plus whatever points I'd invested in them. The log literally showed the roll for my heal as this:

Plexie Copperbottom : Heal : *failure* : (19 - 41 = -22 vs DC: 0)
Plexie Copperbottom : Healed -22 hit points.

So I went back again and checked my skill list, and my skills were all deep into the negatives.

The fact that you don't believe this to be the case, and the fact that you've repeatedly said that there is not supposed to be a skill penalty in this encounter, confirms what I initially said: That the encounter broke due to a bug. I'm not asking for any kind of compensation, just some form of explanation, which I eventually received, though it's troubling that a DM would so immediately jump to a defensive position and essentially accuse me of not witnessing what I just witnessed. You should be here to help people, not accuse them of lying.

I do not believe he intended to imply that you were lying. He only said the encounter does not normally deal skill decreases in the way it was scripted and that it might have been some odd random bug which can happen in many occasions and scripts from time to time.

I personally never had this problem with skill decrase in this encounter either.

What we can and should do is check after a reset if the problem persists. If yes, then maybe something in the encounter bugged in some update. If not then it likely was a one time random bug.

If you think of it in the chaos of the moment then its a good idea to make a screeny as well.

I figured it out. It IS a bug.

The skill penalty from Doom Aura stacks with itself. So every time you're exposed to it, you suffer a cumulative -2 penalty to all skills...meaning if you're forced to maneuver in and out of the aura for any reason, you get exposed to several auras at once, and the issue is compounded if there are multiple auras.

This can be tested by finding any greater gibberling and simply running in and out of the aura. I don't think I need to point out why auras shouldn't be able to stack themselves like that.

Edit: The attack penalty stacks, too, though it doesn't show in the character sheet like the skill penalty does. In other words, you can end up with an effective -20 penalty to attack from the aura as well.

Doom does cause a -2 skill check debuff, which should be noted. And if for some reason someone custom scripted an aura and somehow allowed the debuff to stack then it would explain a lot, although not sure why it would only be stacking on skills. Although with that said only hitting on a natural 20? that sounds a lot like far more than a -2 debuff to attack rolls.

If it is stacking (even if only randomly) that is a BAD scripting mistake (Even more so since it drops your saving throws making you fail them more and more).

Edit: ...Damn slow typing. >.>

Characters are given ample ic warning about the difficulty of the quest in the text. Its also not a necessary part of the leveling curve. Complaining about an optional dungeon and suggesting that it's driving away new players is absurd. The maw is far closer to your typical mmo dungeon than the rest of the dungeons. It really should be considered the standard for a good dungeon rather than an exception. People have just gotten numbed by the typical mindless mobs of nwn and dont know how to put on their big gamer panties. :wink:

The Great Equalizer wrote:

Doom does cause a -2 skill check debuff, which should be noted. And if for some reason someone custom scripted an aura and somehow allowed the debuff to stack then it would explain a lot, although not sure why it would only be stacking on skills. Although with that said only hitting on a natural 20? that sounds a lot like far more than a -2 debuff to attack rolls.

If it is stacking (even if only randomly) that is a BAD scripting mistake.

Edit: ...Damn slow typing. >.>

It's not randomly stacking. It stacks every single time. I just managed to run back and forth on purpose in one gibberling's aura until my AB went from +14 to -10 (So, effectively a -24 penalty), and all my skills were -50.

The standard Doom aura is used on the Gibberlings. It is not custom coded.

Glim wrote:

The standard Doom aura is used on the Gibberlings. It is not custom coded.

Then it sounds like the standard Doom aura is bugged. The aura itself isn't a problem, it's the bad pathing mixed with an event designed to send a mob of aura-enchanted enemies at you and forces you to run all over the place attacking portals and taking cover behind pillars. Every time you or an aura-enchanted gibberling repositions, it forces another saving throw.

The event is practically designed from the ground up to exploit the bug against the player, though I doubt it was done intentionally by the designers.

Aura of menace you mean? For clarification sake as there isn't a "Doom aura" that I know of.

The Great Equalizer wrote:

Aura of menace you mean? For clarification sake as there isn't a "Doom aura" that I know of.

Yes, sorry I looked it up later and realized the name difference.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Characters are given ample ic warning about the difficulty of the quest in the text. Its also not a necessary part of the leveling curve. Complaining about an optional dungeon and suggesting that it's driving away new players is absurd. The maw is far closer to your typical mmo dungeon than the rest of the dungeons. It really should be considered the standard for a good dungeon rather than an exception. People have just gotten numbed by the typical mindless mobs of nwn and dont know how to put on their big gamer panties. :wink:

IC warning should be taken with a grain of salt. This is, for all intents and purposes, the second quest that a lot of players are directed towards after completing the kobold dungeon, which is easily doable at level 3-5 by most builds. Just because the NPC says "This is quite rough and dangerous!" doesn't remotely imply that it's going to destroy you. The NPC would tell a level 30 the same thing, and most 30s could mop the floor with this quest. It is reasonable to assume, given quest progression, that the dungeon is suitable for level 5-10 players.

It doesn't help at all that when you enter, the first two floors feel like a perfectly balanced challenge for someone that's level 5-7 or so. Everything about the quest and dungeon, from the pacing, to the enemies you fight, to how you find the quest giver, all make it feel like this quest was designed for players in that range. It's not until you meet the boss that you suddenly realize you're in way over your head, but by then, it's too late, and you're smacked with a -24 AB penalty and -50 to all skills halfway through the fight.

I don't disagree with your overall assessment (and similar issues have been seriously aggravating me elsewhere on the mod), but I believe having Mind Spell immunity from Clarity, Protection from Alignment (if they're evil), or some form of Mind Blank will prevent the aura from affecting you.

Of course, expecting people to know they suddenly need those spells for a dungeon at that level is more than a bit silly.

Balkoth wrote:

I don't disagree with your overall assessment (and similar issues have been seriously aggravating me elsewhere on the mod), but I believe having Mind Spell immunity from Clarity, Protection from Alignment (if they're evil), or some form of Mind Blank will prevent the aura from affecting you.

Of course, expecting people to know they suddenly need those spells for a dungeon at that level is more than a bit silly.

That's the point I made earlier. The current bug is basically that moving in and out of the Aura of Menace reapplies its effect, stacks the effect, and refreshes the duration. That alone is a bug, but doesn't cause much issue until you take this specific encounter into consideration. This encounter requires the player(s) to fight several greater gibberlings, each of which has the aura. It also requires the player(s) to routinely move around, attacking portals, hiding behind pillars, and inadvertantly moving into and out of greater gibberling auras constantly. Also, because of NWN's pathing, once there are more than a few gibberlings attacking, they will regularly jockey for position, forcing any players present in and out of their own auras.

As it currently stands, the only ways to really complete the dungeon are:

1. Have a group so large and/or powerful that it trivializes the entire dungeon.
2. Be so high in level that the dungeon is trivial to go solo and provides next-to-no experience.
3. Know ahead of time exactly what combination of magic items you need to combat a bugged mechanic.

Option 1 means you're just trying to find a group of friends to help you go curbstomp a low-level dungeon so you can defeat its mid-level boss.

Option 2 basically equates to a dungeon that, by the time you can complete it, you no longer care due to how trivial it is, as nobody wants to fight through literal hordes of monsters that give no XP just to stomp a boss that gives barely any more.

Option 3 sucks because it comes out of nowhere and the item needed not only isn't revealed until after you're dead, but is required in order to prevent a bug from killing you rather than defend you from a genuine challenge.

The solution is really easy. Either remove Aura of Menace from these mobs, or fix it so it can't infinitely stack with itself.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Characters are given ample ic warning about the difficulty of the quest in the text. Its also not a necessary part of the leveling curve. Complaining about an optional dungeon and suggesting that it's driving away new players is absurd. The maw is far closer to your typical mmo dungeon than the rest of the dungeons. It really should be considered the standard for a good dungeon rather than an exception. People have just gotten numbed by the typical mindless mobs of nwn and dont know how to put on their big gamer panties. :wink:

I wish there was a like button at the bottom of each post

Looking at this from a new player's perspective, I can definitely agree. I took a level 23 character in there just to see what it was all about. I had no idea what to expect and that was thrilling. At one point, my epic character almost died because I missed one little thing. It is really easy to miss something, especially when you're alone, just bored and exploring and passing time, or simply don't know what to expect and didn't prepare that one vital thing.

Aura of Menace should not stack with itself. Even if the Greater Gibberlings are only 2 Hit Die, that's a one-minute duration. In a fight where you're getting tons of those and you may fail multiple saves multiple times on an on-entry script, that's way too much.

The problem isn't the difficulty of the dungeon. Personally, I love it and think it's almost as perfect as it gets. This is just a bug report. I'll toss it up for the DMs to peruse and see if it's something that can be fixed.

MyOwnDestiny wrote:

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Characters are given ample ic warning about the difficulty of the quest in the text. Its also not a necessary part of the leveling curve. Complaining about an optional dungeon and suggesting that it's driving away new players is absurd. The maw is far closer to your typical mmo dungeon than the rest of the dungeons. It really should be considered the standard for a good dungeon rather than an exception. People have just gotten numbed by the typical mindless mobs of nwn and dont know how to put on their big gamer panties. :wink:

I wish there was a like button at the bottom of each post

Or, SHOCK, some of us may not -like-, or even know how to approach, "typical MMO dungeons".

It's not absurd, it's actually fact. If it's an unpleasant fact, sorry about that, but there you go. It is what it is, and saying it's crazy doesn't help, and doesn't actually change anything.

Then skip it? There are more than enough uninspired loops full of boring melee mobs to suit your needs. No reason to bitch about the challenging one when a sizable population has expressed their admiration of it. Every dungeon is optional.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying, NinjaC, though I cam totally sympathize with the argument that if a dungeon is going to be significantly more challenging than others of its level, a clear warning would not be out of line, so people could have the informed option to "just skip it" until they can gather up a sizable enough party.

In previous discussion on the Maw, there was mentioned the possibility of implementing some sort of difficulty scale of each quest, which would be indicated in the title of the journal entry accompanying each one. Is that still in the works? That was a great idea, whoever thought of that.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Then skip it? There are more than enough uninspired loops full of boring melee mobs to suit your needs. No reason to bitch about the challenging one when a sizable population has expressed their admiration of it. Every dungeon is optional.

There's also no reason to continue to White Knight the designer of the dungeon. It's been established what the issue is. Now the only thing to do is let the DM staff decide whether they wish the aura to continue working as it does or correct that issue.

Its nice that it is a different variation of combat than a lot of the other places and has some amusing tricks to it, although I would like to see more dungeons have more of an actual RP aspect to them, even just things like having parts where there isn't necessarily combat but where skills can be used and choices made and all that (although granted it is more work.)

As for the maw and other quests it seems possible to make the conversations slightly dynamic by checking the number of PCs in the party and there levels and then based on that change how the quest giver talks about its difficulty to them. eg. one low level might get "You'd be walking to your death" but a few of them together might get "It will be a challenge but you just might pull it off" and so on, although once again more work for a small thing.

As for something on topic, get the maw bugs looked at and fixed since it seems like its making it more brutal than its meant to be.

Edit: Also even if the DMs like how the aura is working it IS broken and unintentional so it should be fixed, if they wanted they could then reimplement it themselves after fixing it, but just leaving code in that is not working as intended is never a good idea.

As a still relatively new player myself, I'm kind of... put off severely by some of the posts in this thread. A lot of them, actually.
OP was simply pointing out what he thought (correctly?) was a bug. In comes a flood of people -- and a DM, who doesn't even know stat-drain mechanics himself (you can't get such a high skill negative from WIS drain, impossible) basically saying "learn to play" without even, seemingly, reading the post.

Why is the knee-jerk reaction to snap at someone instead of helping/trying to figure it out...?

(Now personally I LOVED this dungeon, but I never killed myself with heal kits xD )

There's a lot of context about the Maw that might predate your joining us, RogueShark. When it first was added to the module, it did have a few glitches, and a lot of the conversation arising from there was... well, let's say "not constructive." So I can sympathize with Glim being a bit on the defensive. But you're right in that if there is a remaining unintended glitch, it should be looked into.

I can sympathize with that, really. I'm not saying it makes anyone a horrible person, or that there's no basis for it...
But, judging by the first post (and I'm assuming the OP didn't massively edit out a bunch of whining about how the dungeon is too hard, and how it's awful, and that it originally stood more or less how it does now, a basic bug report), there's no real reason to be jumping on the defensive and making such... using your phrase, "not constructive" and sort of hostile posts. It's understandable to be a little on edge considering the awful experiences in the past with "reports" on this dungeon, but the original post looks really cut-and-dry to me: no whining about the actual dungeon design itself, just the ridiculous and buggy -50 skillpoints, and asking if this is intended or not.
Hell if it happened to me? You can bet I'd be asking the same thing, if this is supposed to be that way, and why such a low-level dungeon has such a crippling debuff of -50 skillpoints (and, apparently, -20 attack). I think anyone, newb or maybe even a not-newb, would be scratching their heads over this if it happened to them and they noticed.

Now bear in mind I'm not trying to pick a fight or be all "UR BAD PPL" but it just reads as very unfriendly, and leaves a bad taste of "Well damn, do I really want to post issues/bugs I find and possibly be met with the same attitude in the future?" (Mark my words, that will be a Baskin-Robbins flavor some day) in the mouth.

The OP isn't really an objective bug report.

Severely broken event.
I sincerely hope it wasn't designed that way on purpose.
Someone actually thought it was a GOOD idea to build it that way?

It's a little bit condescending, so understandably people get a little bit defensive when someone bags on their work.

Honestly? Getting -20 AB and -50 skills IS severely broken. Especially at that level. The AB hurts way worse than the skills, I'd think, but apparently the skills can kill you too, if you try and heal with -50 heal.
Saying as much isn't bagging on anyone's work, assuming the negative stacking insanity isn't intentional.

Edit: Furthermore, the posts I'm referring to aren't even responding to what the bug report (poorly-presented or not) is even about: it's just jumping the gun and assuming the OP is crying about things people have (needlessly) complained about in the past (see the basic "if you stand in the fire, you deserve to die" or the more impressive "another new player crying about the impossibility" comments for reference).

I mean, the topic sort of goes like this...
Disappointed Badger Enthusiast: I went to the new Badger Exhibit in Badgertown to see the baby badgers, but it wasn't open yet even though it's SUPPOSED to be.

Person 1: Omg why are you hating on the badgers?!
Person 2: I love badgers!
Person 3: Oh look, someone's complaining about the admission to Badgertown again...
Person 4: The price to Badgertown is perfectly reasonable, I'm so tired of hearing about this over and over...

Etc, etc. Now let's ignore for the moment that no sane person on the face of this planet would EVER claim to actually love badgers, and run with this awful comparison.
Notice how all of these comments really have nothing to do with what the Disappointed Badger Enthusiast mentioned...?

...I'm going to sleep now before I write something even more ridiculous.

I agree, RogueShark, the response I got was very mixed. A lot of people supported my view, but many of them basically responded with some variation of "If you don't like it, don't play.", because apparently, I should be content with a bug that essentially breaks a boss fight unless you're so high level that the encounter is trivial.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Then skip it? There are more than enough uninspired loops full of boring melee mobs to suit your needs. No reason to bitch about the challenging one when a sizable population has expressed their admiration of it. Every dungeon is optional.

Why are you so insistent that "challenge" caused exclusively by what we've pretty much confirmed as a bug is legitimate? We've already demonstrated here that the developers didn't know that aura stacked, so the event probably wasn't intended to be as difficult as it is. You shouldn't have to be 5-6 levels ahead of an event to beat it. That's not real challenge. I have no problem with difficulty, and I also have no problem with inspired, unique challenges, so stop getting in my face with "hur dur you want a boring mass kill dungeon!" Knock it off.

Most of the people that are saying some variation of "It was easy for me, you just suck." likely fall into one of those three categories I listed above. Yes, the event is going to be much easier if you tackle it when you're so high level that you should be doing later dungeons. Yes, a level 5-10 dungeon is quite easy when you're level 23, or when you have a group of 4-5 people. Point being, creating a dungeon that can be completed by a solo level 7 character and then having a boss that's virtually impossible to defeat by that same character (especially because of a bug) is jarring. It makes players wonder if running dungeons solo is worth it, because we never know if we're going to be running along saying "Wow, this is a really fun encounter! This dungeon is great! I really want to find out how the story ends!" only to get slapped down by a sudden, unexpected spike in difficulty.

Also, let me reiterate that this is the second quest most players are exposed to. Why are people suggesting that players should, on a Dungeons and Dragons-based roleplaying server, have to grind experience before continuing their quests? This is D&D, not World of Warcraft.

Hey, leave my level 23 character alone.

My post was supposed to be helpful (I said she almost died!).

The bug has been reported and it's being looked into. There's really no need to continue arguing about whether it's too difficult or if so-and-so said something mean and unnecessary. Let's just let the cogs turn and lay this debate to rest, hm?

RogueShark wrote:

Now let's ignore for the moment that no sane person on the face of this planet would EVER claim to actually love badgers, and run with this awful comparison.

Watch it, or Fwuzzy will eat your soul.

P Three wrote:

RogueShark wrote:

Now let's ignore for the moment that no sane person on the face of this planet would EVER claim to actually love badgers, and run with this awful comparison.

Watch it, or Fwuzzy will eat your soul.

I used badgers as an example especially for him.
<3

Severely broken event

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