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Both of my dorfs have a Charisma is six, and they're both gross slobs and belligerent drunks. One of them is considerably more gross though, since he used his beard as a napkin last night.

And the other one is a barbarian, go figure.

I love the sentiment of this post, to promote better rp, but frankly..i think those that want to rp stats are allready doing it, the rest are min maxing pvp builds..and i honerstly dont see them changing in any way...they have chars with 8 in charisma and insists that thier chars are beautiful as gods..and are smart as wizards despite having a int of 8..

I really hope this leads to cracking down abit on such min maxing

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

People who dump their charisma and then play social masterminds really rustle my jimmies.

This is equally true for people who max their charisma and then plays complete pushovers.

I have a few shameless powerbuild dump stat characters but I like to think I Rp those stats correctly.

Usually my low wisdom charcters are fighter type builds that are more apt to run into a dangerous fight without thinking about it. They may do things that seem that they lack any common sense. Other players may not pick up on this but maybe they aren't watching for it in my play. Another way I handle the dump stats is to have gear on that adjusts those stats to 10. It is not difficult to find gear or craft gear in game that will max out two stats and give about 4 more stat points to play around with. Do stats adjusted by items and potions to the "average number" make up for short comings in the build? It certainly effects strength and constitution as well as the ammount of spells given for casters.

My Charisma dump characters tend to have facial scars(represented in the characters bio/discription). Often do not talk much unless they are with others of their own race. Or do thing to try to not be noticed.

I agree that for the most part social stats are not played correctly (I consider wisdom and charisma social because really they both are measures of how the character perceives the world around them and how they are perceived.) The main problem however is that we as players are unable to see what the other players characters stats are and are then unable to respond to them appropriately If the player is not rping in the manner those stats should be.

For example I have seen a lot of people in real social situations that think they are a smooth while whoever they are talking to is thinking something along the lines of "Oh my God. This person is such a loser." We as human beings can see that Joe from the bar has a 6 charisma in real life because we are hearing tone of voice, facial expressions and other social queues. However Joe from the bar also has a low enough wisdom making him believe that he is a charming person and that whomever he is trying to pick up is interested.

Here is a potential solution for stat dumps:

I know that some merchants in game will not interact with a character that has less than a 10 intellegence. Perhaps put a trigger on the npc's that will make it so they do not interact with a character with a low Charisma. Maybe have the guards react with some hostility to the 6 charisma character. It is obvious that such a stat should make them uneasy. Perhaps the cart drivers should either not take them on the ride or dump them every time.

Another solution is to require the characters stats to be listed in their description.

the other fact is that Amia over the years has been made into a power build server. There is even a thread that the DM's participate in about power building. The Player vs. environment aspect of the game has made it more and more necessary to powerbuild in order to survive. It is nearly impossible to play with a group of "RP" builds to level past 15 without spending more on potions and bandages than you can collect in gold or treasure on the server.

Now while I personally agree that stats should be Rp'd in a reasonable fashion. I have to take issue with the esoteric "Force of Will" aspect of charisma. To my mind that would make it impossible for most characters taking up the mantle of "adventurer" to have the courage to face the unknowns and horrors of the wide world.

Speaking of courage, what stat is that represented by? Would that not also fall under charisma? Excepting paladins of course which have it as a feat.

Perhaps this would be a good time to entertain adding some sort of server and mechanical incentive for not tanking certain attributes. After all, one can use a high strength to get through a locked door, but only suffers a minor penalty at merchants for a low charisma. I'd like to see all the stats get some love on the server and make the skills associated with them far more useful. That might solve the issue of stat dumping for many characters and improve the general utility of all the stats rather than just the most mechanically efficient ones.

Then there is the problem of Amia being an RP lite server. Is there going to be some sort of penalty down the road for not RP'ing "Properly"?

I don't think Amia is RP Lite or casual. It has matured for the better over the years I've played here, and a change of culture in the DM team and playerbase alike has led to greater, longer, and darker stories. What Amia should hold onto, however, is its respect for player freedom and responsibility. What attracted me to Amia in the first place was the lack of arbitrary building rules and character creation restrictions. We've slipped from that freedom a bit, but mostly for the better. Yeah, there are some unjustified practices because people don't speak up, but we've done a good job of juggling serious role-playing and long-term stories with individual freedom, transparency and even democracy.

People are reading too much into what isn't a policy statement, though. I don't object to making players think about their stats more, but it needs to be done with a carrot, not a stick. Just like what's been done with the weaker Spell Focus feats.

I have a really nice min/maxed PC that came to life with a “What if?”. I built her out /then/ decided on her character and look.

It’s an Earth Gensai and in order to get the ‘what if’ to work. CHA 6? Yep. WIS 6? Oh yeah. I didn’t do much ugly on her with scars although as other stats get ridiculous I add little hints in her description. She follows along with whatever is suggested. However her force of personality is due to her barbarian abilities. This is not a good force of personality, there’s nothing attractive about a gal in a rage. I did give her INT 14. So she doesn’t drool… much.

Now if a DM see’s I’m not doing enough (in their opinion) to RP out her CHA & WIS I hope that they would send me suggestions.

Maybe a topic can be started with suggestions for low and high stats for characters?

The way i'm reading this is the DM's are encourageing players to RP their stats which what good roleplaying is all about.

They didn't specifically state they'd -police- it by removing levels, banning, clearing out the faultive player's inventory, reduce their ability scores, publically humiliate them or bring them to real life court about it.

:wink:

It's all about common sense.

And concerning Bini's post, I do agree it's a casual RP server here. Casual doesn't mean there isn't great rp going on, quite the contrary.

Casual meaning DM's won't remove Dreamcoins for bad RP.
Casual meaning one can run around while hunting without getting slapped or banned, cause y'know, it doesn't really make sense to be able to run forever hmn? your character would get tired unless he or she has 20+ con.
Casual meaning meaning mechanically, it's a very high magic server and quite frankly anyone can solo just about anything with ease.
Casual meaning people don't need magical components which would limit their spellcasting abilities and making it costly to cast spells.
Casual meaning you can make RP DC request with some RP as long as it makes sense, not needing to RP for months. DM's cater to player's needs, quite frankly, we're treated like princes and princesses here.

And I mean no offense by that.

I find Amia an incredible breathing, living world to play in.

That being said, there are two routes for encourageing a modification to a behaviour.

1) Punishing wrongful beahviours

2) Encouraging the positive behaviour when it happens

Amia has chosen option 2 by rather rewarding players who RP well rather than punishing those who make no effort to.

Though I'd think they'd sometimes need to take out their Holy Smiting Hammers of Judgment when people blatantly break the rules or break the immersion for everyone.

It isn't complicated. Rp your stats.

...

Good job! * high fives*

None of that is what the word "casual" means, psycho. Except perhaps the ability to get DC requests approved without months of RP.

It's casual trust me.

I didn't want to compare but the examples I took are from another server...

You have no -choice- to RP there, you can get banned if you don't, or RP poorly.
And i'd even go as far as RPing more-or-less well.

Create a character on Amia and run around Cordor yelling " I love cookies" for five minutes.
You'll probably get ignored here, elsewhere it's an instaban.

That's -far- from being a casual setting.

I have played on hardcore servers so I understand the comparisons very well. But "casual RP" is not the word to describe it. "Lacking in gross abuses of power, arbitrary restrictions and self-righteous elitism" might be more to the point. None of that has anything to do with the seriousness of role-playing or the stories we tell, but rather the OOC culture surrounding the RP.

Casual is something irregular, or in this context, lacking serious interest and commitment. And that doesn't apply to Amia at all. The stories the DMs and players tell here are very serious and people are committed to them for years. There's nothing casual about a server-spanning story that's been going on for five years and involves the possibility of permadeath for characters who choose to get invested.

Alright, you've got a point there.

Casual maybe isn't the best word for it.

Maybe we should call it a - Non arbitrary and strict- Rp environment then.

Terra_777 wrote:

CouncilofAutumn wrote:

People who dump their charisma and then play social masterminds really rustle my jimmies.

This is equally true for people who max their charisma and then plays complete pushovers.

I always view charisma as force of personality and likeability, but intelligence and wisdom have some play in your ability to interact with other people as well. For instance you can have 500 Charisma, but 6 Wisdom, you are still very likely to say socially awkward things that might upset people in conversation.

That said, Tae uses really cheesy pickup lines that again, for some reason I don't fathom, people respond positively to

Throughout the years I've played on many RP servers and all of them have this issue.

A common trend I've seen that is that people don't want characters with 'weaknesses', they want special snowflake characters that speak 4 languages fluently, are really sexy and are mechanically strong at the same time. Not saying that -everybody- plays like that but I would be lying if I said it was uncommon to see throughout the years.

A problem with "RPing" your stats fully is the class system. Charisma, for example, represents physical beauty in that system. Does this mean that there are no Rogues or Fighters that can be 'really sexy' without severily hurting their character builds? Does this mean that all Sorcerers look like gods/goddesses?

In my opinion they shouldn't. I think that beauty is subjective and shouldn't be generalized via an attribute point that some characters have no use for mechanically.

With that said, I don't like it when people write up descriptions that say "You see a really beautiful woman" because as I said, beauty is subjective. On a physical level though with strength and dexterity, I do believe they should matter as that is not something subjective. Either you can lift a heavy rock, or you can't

Tl/dr: This has always been an issue. People would much rather min/max stats than to become mechanically weaker to avoid 'unwanted' weaknesses. They can just avoid them anyway.

Where is this thread going....

Alaria- wrote:

they want special snowflake characters that speak 4 languages fluently

Completely off-topic, but this caught my eye. This is a cultural thing. I've noticed native English speakers find this special, because they've never had to learn a foreign language. (This is a crude generalization, but surely has truth to it.) Everyone middle-aged and younger in Finland speaks at least Finnish, Swedish and English because they're taught in primary school. Most pick up a fourth language, though of course not everyone becomes fluent with it. I know five languages (German and Latin in addition to those three) and I've never been very enthusiastic about or super-talented with languages. I'm really only fluent in the first three, but would easily be in the others if I used them regularly. So in a multicultural setting like ours, with everyone learning their native language as well as Common and then communicating with a dozen different races, there should be nothing extraordinary about speaking four or even eight languages. In fact, the more you know the easier it is to pick up new ones.

Svensk, let the thread go where it pleases! The original point was made and natural development isn't a bad thing.

It's always bothered me that NWN stats start at 8, when 8 is only slightly below 'average'. I understand the mechanical issue it solves (the minmaxed powerbuilds would be far worse if they had access to the full 3 - 18 stat range), but it causes issues in RP areas. 10 is average intelligence, 8 does -not- prohibit a character from speaking properly (I can't find a quote on what does, but if I recall it was 5-6 or below). * is only one (or two, depending on how you look at it) deviations from average.

My view has always been that adventuring characters are always basically at least average across the board. A 6 gets you pretty far below average, and should obviously be played out, but an 8 is just slightly below average. It might be an obscene difference comparative to 'adventurer standard' (which extends into godlike abilities being commonplace), but it would not cause a speech or cognitive impediment, uncontrolled drooling, and/or any other severe detriment. The game mechanics limit us to just about average at a minimum, unless you choose to portray a stat lower then that.

That said, people with low stats should not be playing a if those were master level. Charisma is probably the hardest to enforce, being the most arbitrary and least defined abolity. What carrots could be hung out for charisma builds? The stats attached to it have been nerfed (to the extent they can be simply ignored), and mechanics already entirely ignore it. An answer I've liked has been to treat it as a luck score as well as force of personality and appearance, which gives RP based cha-builds something at the least, but sorta overpowers the cha-builds with mechanical benifits.

Also: Hello Amia, guess I'm not just lurking here anymore.

IronAngel wrote:

. So in a multicultural setting like ours, with everyone learning their native language as well as Common and then communicating with a dozen different races, there should be nothing extraordinary about speaking four or even eight languages. In fact, the more you know the easier it is to pick up new ones.

I agree with this statement, but mostly because server rules currently limit me from learning the next and last language I wanted my character to learn, which was dwarven. So I agree the more you know the easier it is to learn *shifty eyes*

Interesting insight in the overall post by the way, maybe it is true. I'm native english and used to fairly adept at german but other than that, never learned a lot of languages. But to be honest, the main reason I liked learning languages here it to eavesdrop on the ebul plots and cause its really funny when someone calls you a jackass in a language they don't think you know and then your respond in said language >.>

Additionally, while we're in a thread that speaks a lot on people not roleplaying stats and skills correctly, I want to address another thing. Unless you are an aasimar, or a high con or fort individual, you should NOT be walking around the Frozenfar in an outfit that amounts to friggin underwear. Or anywhere for that matter. I really really REALLY hate the trend, here and in other fantasy games, where female casters and rogues walk around in slutty pantsless, small shirt/bikini outfits, and I hate it even more when they do it in areas where to do so would rapidly become fatal. I also hate it when people wear those outfits then get offended when their character gets compared to a slut or whore for wearing slutty whorey clothes, but most people are pretty good about keeping their response to such IC. But still...if you are walking around a place called the FROZENfar you should not be doing it in your summer bathing suit dammit!

DolphinRacer wrote:

I agree with this statement, but mostly because server rules currently limit me from learning the next and last language I wanted my character to learn ...

There are no server rules regarding languages, to my knowledge. If someone says otherwise, my next stop will be the "Unwritten Rules" thread.

I was always told the rule was 1 language per your INT modifier, not counting racial and regional freebies.

That's the rule in PnP, yes. I'm not aware of it ever being enforced here, though. And it would be a shame if it were, since PnP has the option to spend skill points to go beyond that default limit, where NWN does not.

I was told by a DM that the PnP limit applies, granted he also said its not really enforced either >.>

The DM was mistaken. A language system was considered and developed for a while but ultimately dismissed. The PnP rule is bad and requires unreasonable effort on everyone's part to observe. Even figuring out what your regional languages should be is a headache given Player's Guide to Faerûn mucked it up.

Besides, it doesn't even mean anything to say something is a policy but that it isn't enforced. A rule is defined by its being enforced. Anything else is just personal preference.

Stat-dumping is cool so long as people RP appropriately for what stats they have. The same is true of 'powerbuilding'. This word keeps getting thrown around like it's some big ugly thing, but if people are RPing appropriately for their Race/Classes/Abilities/Etc, then there's no issue with it.

There's no such thing as an RP build. Every build is an RP build. You should be RPing regardless of your build. Amia isn't focused toward 'powerbuilds', it is focused towards building interesting characters and stories. With the right gear, and a little bit of knowledge about what feats to take, and what feats not to take, any build can be successful on Amia.

Gobbledygook wrote:

There's no such thing as an RP build. Every build is an RP build.

I call this absolutely false. RP builds are builds designed and created around generating useful RP and reflecting abilities and talents, obscure or obvious a character has.

A powerbuild is a build where the entire creation process begins and ends with "This needs to be able to kills as many people as possible so I can provoke senseless PvP that does nothing to advance anything beyond my own personal satisfaction at being a bully"

I will say however the term powerbuilding/powergaming is a bit overused, but I still firmly believe these are two different things. Tae is a good example. If I wanted I could have turned him into another Crit-fishing scimi or rapier whore weaponmaster, but I didn't. He doesn't have dev crit, and his stats are not ideal for his build, but he has a lot of other abilities and RP qualities to help compensate for it, and has pulled off some incredible stuff as a result.

Creating a build specifically so you can just go out and kill people for the sake of killing them (this includes some of the manifestations of the Banite faction, where it seemed like everyone was just going around killing people and not even doing any decent RP outside of ganging up on folks) ruins the mood of the server and in general pisses people off.

CHA could be used for fear as well.

You could have a ugly hag with 18 CHA but no one would dare call her ugly due to fear of what she might do.

DolphinRacer wrote:

Gobbledygook wrote:

There's no such thing as an RP build. Every build is an RP build.

I call this absolutely false. RP builds are builds designed and created around generating useful RP and reflecting abilities and talents, obscure or obvious a character has.

A powerbuild is a build where the entire creation process begins and ends with "This needs to be able to kills as many people as possible so I can provoke senseless PvP that does nothing to advance anything beyond my own personal satisfaction at being a bully"

So basically it's the intent behind the build which determines what it is, not the stats.

Superfluous Opinion!

Extremely important and necessary!

The discussion on the legitimacy of the terms "RP build" and "powerbuild" aren't relevant to this thread. If you want to discuss it (Something which has been done many, many times) make a new thread.

Not RPing your negative stats is the same as powerbuilding. RPing your negative stats on the same powerbuild is ok.

Some stats I find are hard to say how to RP like Int/Wis, my char has 14 WIS and 9 INT I belive.

As Manarethan said "Intelligence determines how well a character learns and reasons. It also represents the ability to analyze information.(Note that an intelligence of 8 or below means that your character is unable to speak correctly)"

How could anyone say whats right or wrong, lets say you had 7Int and so IC could not speak correctly,one might think they should IC make him suffer from retardation, but I dont think that would be very fair to say if we look at Rain Man(the moive) Raymond who was a autistic savant was very good at math..and counting cards,history has a bunch of notable savants but I assume most people have seen rain man/ know of that moive so would get my point across better.

If Int is your brain and its just a computer, and 9Int was a total of 9 gigs, someone might fill it to the max with a single subject like music,Art,literature,Languages...ect letting other areas suffer, on the other hand someone might fill it with porn...

IC I have done some neat research with Mythals that noone else has done befor, I have created Negative energy potions, I can understand DMs wanting people to RP their stats and I agree, but say in mycase how would the DMs say what is the limitations of my stats?
I'm big on trial and error to learn and use that gained information to improve but in the case of research and inventing would that not be based on the merit of the idea more then the stats of person?

6 cha

16 int

torin da bess

@O'Raghailligh:Its more power... RPing.

But now to my opinion; if you never RP any faults in your character and always just have them being perfect in every way both you and the people around you are likely to get bored of RPing with them so you are often just hurting yourself and taking away from your own enjoyment which on an RP server where that is really the point of it all you are doing a great job of punishing yourself for your own choices.

TormakSaber wrote:

6 cha

16 int

torin da bess

Torin and Tae have something in common. THE END IS NIGH!

corypx wrote:

Some stats I find are hard to say how to RP like Int/Wis, my char has 14 WIS and 9 INT I belive.

As Manarethan said "Intelligence determines how well a character learns and reasons. It also represents the ability to analyze information.(Note that an intelligence of 8 or below means that your character is unable to speak correctly)"

How could anyone say whats right or wrong, lets say you had 7Int and so IC could not speak correctly,one might think they should IC make him suffer from retardation, but I dont think that would be very fair to say if we look at Rain Man(the moive) Raymond who was a autistic savant was very good at math..and counting cards,history has a bunch of notable savants but I assume most people have seen rain man/ know of that moive so would get my point across better.

If Int is your brain and its just a computer, and 9Int was a total of 9 gigs, someone might fill it to the max with a single subject like music,Art,literature,Languages...ect letting other areas suffer, on the other hand someone might fill it with porn...

IC I have done some neat research with Mythals that noone else has done befor, I have created Negative energy potions, I can understand DMs wanting people to RP their stats and I agree, but say in mycase how would the DMs say what is the limitations of my stats?
I'm big on trial and error to learn and use that gained information to improve but in the case of research and inventing would that not be based on the merit of the idea more then the stats of person?

To quote one of my friends who got me into NWN:

Intelligence is your ability to understand, learn, and recall information. Wisdom is your common sense ability. If a person has 20 int, they could look at lava and tell you exactly what temperature it is and what it would do if you touched it. If the same person had 0 wisdom, they'd touch it anyway.

Obviously this is a bit exaggerated, but its how I tend to roleplay things, more or less. I've had high int low wis characters that are capable of incredible analytical genius and still do ridiculously stupid stuff.

That said, a person with a lower int isn't necessarily incapable of making discoveries or innovations, in theory it is just harder for them to attain that, similarly, there are a lot of people in the real world that instantly get things and can analyze things rapidly, and others who can come to the same or better conclusions it just takes them a lot longer. Reflectig intelligence and wisdom in roleplay is, by its nature, a rather difficult thing to do.

DolphinRacer wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

6 cha

16 int

torin da bess

Torin and Tae have something in common. THE END IS NIGH!

both are butt ugly it seems

I've never once used a physical descriptor like 'attractive' or 'handsome' or anything like that for Torin

ever

once

not my fault if he's interpreted that way consistently!

Guardian wrote:

xordae wrote:

That arse who plays his 8 CHA build as being devilishly handsome will continue to do so. He probably doesn't read the forums, either. The less you worry about his character, the better you'll feel.

Pretty much this. Mind you, it does not mean I am not slightly pissed about it. An occasional DM bitch-slap in game may do the charm, you know.

A certain ex-DM used to regularly hassle those 6 CHA PCs.

Naivatkal wrote:

Now, my Sharessin cleric has a whopping 18 CHA and rather than have her be omg-uber-hot she's just highly attractive with a huge personality.

She's got huuuuge... tracts of land. :lol:

Xavi is max level and 18 for CHA & WIS are her top stats, but over the years that same 18 has meant different things - in her prime it was beauty, talent and reputation, but as she approaches the upper boundary of MILF-ness it now reflects social position and legendary capabilities more than appearance.

TormakSaber wrote:

I've never once used a physical descriptor like 'attractive' or 'handsome' or anything like that for Torin

Well, he's pale, he doesn't breathe (if I recall correctly), he used to eat crackers constantly and he can be a prick at times. Sounds like a 6 CHA to me.

Xaviera wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

I've never once used a physical descriptor like 'attractive' or 'handsome' or anything like that for Torin

Well, he's pale, he doesn't breathe (if I recall correctly)

If he sparkles girls 8-16 must love him.

But again I think it all boils down to what floats your boat, if you got a thing for cat ears and a tail its 6 Cha might act like 60.

Xaviera wrote:

Guardian wrote:

xordae wrote:

That arse who plays his 8 CHA build as being devilishly handsome will continue to do so. He probably doesn't read the forums, either. The less you worry about his character, the better you'll feel.

Pretty much this. Mind you, it does not mean I am not slightly pissed about it. An occasional DM bitch-slap in game may do the charm, you know.

A certain ex-DM used to regularly hassle those 6 CHA PCs.

I feel sorry about the "ex" part, then

Guardian wrote:

I feel sorry about the "ex" part, then :(

Likewise. Even though it's extremely rare, I enjoy it whenever DMs ask questions (or even scold me) regarding my roleplay. Feedback and guidance are both nice and appreciated. All too often I get the impression that nearly everything goes on this server.

I personally have two 6 CHA PCs and I think there is little question about their lack of social ability, attractiveness or personal force. I hope not, I least! But, like one pickle already mentioned, some silly people are drawn to these crass, abrasive and outright rude characters. It's just the way their roleplay goes, I guess.

Well, those DM tactics were a little over the top, but...

Sphinx wrote:

Even though it's extremely rare, I enjoy it whenever DMs ask questions (or even scold me) regarding my roleplay. Feedback and guidance are both nice and appreciated. All too often I get the impression that nearly everything goes on this server.

Sorry if not wholy on topic, but this. I dont play regularly over the years, or for very long stretches of time. But I do feel that that if I had gotten 5 sound advices (disregarding my own opinions even, like, you know, when your tabletop DM says "Because..." and you accept because you know they thought about the whole instead of the toon?) instead of the 5 DCs I got. Ultimately, I spent the DCs on XP for low levels, wheter I I could have been using the knowledge given to me to invest more meaningful story-telling time here.

That's a double-edged sword. It doesn't work for everyone.

I will freely admit to being rather impatient about my autonomy. I know I know better than most people, and for someone to presume to evaluate my role-play is insulting. There are a few people on the server and the DM team I know are perceptive enough to judge me, and I am never bothered by someone giving open and sincere feedback as an equal. But when DMs tell a player what they think about his role-play, it easily becomes a situation of asymmetrical authority, not two peers exchanging ideas. And thats the kind of situation that makes my hair stand up. It's also why I hate to make requests; if I have already justified something to myself, it's good enough and I don't need anyone else's approval.

Alas, that's not how the world works and I can live with that. And I'm not really that bothered by such situations; I actually welcome personal, face-to-face communication (insofar as that's possible in this medium). But it's the fundamental tendency I have. I'm very anti-authority, and I doubt I'm the only one. It's good that DMs are generally sensitive enough not to stick their noses into players' business, because not everyone appreciates it.

I empathize with Iron, because I also know better than anyone else and know it, too.

I try to be particular about commenting on others' roleplay as a DM for the very reason Iron points out. The only times I might have something derogatory or negative to say is if I am invited to do so, and that would be if it is relevant to the nature of a formal request, or if someone asks for my critique or opinion (and even then sometimes I might my full opinion, realizing that most people don't know what they're really asking for).

I think that is a good policy in general for DMs to follow.

Yes, surely one man's meat is another man's poison, and longtimers (both DMs and players) already know where they are stepping when they talk among themselves. What I said was mostly concerning folks who might be unsure or could use a nice ingame reminder. Might be just me again, but when a DM talks to me via Tell or ingame circunstance, I am not on the defensive as default, its a good thing.

Well I think we are slipping from an extreme to extreme.

When a guy with 6 charisma toon is playing a new-age (?) Cassanova or a half-orc with 6 int. is easily pulling riddles out of his sleeve or solving them without a second of thought, I think a "reminder" is appropriate.

It seems to me that the golden "common sense" is very much all that we need, alas it's quite a rare trait these days.

Personally I love role playing me stats on Iz. He be a very balanced character who is a rather large human given his tribal blood and has decent stats all but his dexterity. Which was done deliberately given his size he is overly strong and a handsome man but has absolutely no grace. So I often role play him speaking on such and had some great fun role playing such stats. Especially during his ranged combat training where he snapped a bow in half only for the string to fly back and hit him then him stumble back and trip over a rock.

Role playing stats makes it fun to play the character and gives it a unique role playing aspect. Not everyone be perfect so playing such is awesome.

DolphinRacer wrote:

There is a reason Tae is an absolute dick to everyone, and it has a lot to do with his really low charisma modifier. Being a scaley fanged bastard tiefer doesn't make it any higher either.

And yet for some reason I can't fathom, the ladies dig him.

most women love assholes, a fact of life and a nice one cause being an asshole is easy

on another note, CHA has nothing to do with physical appearance unless you are deformed or unearthly beautiful. There use to be a stat in either 1st or 2nd edition from a book called Unearthed Arcana called Comeliness which was strictly physical appearance. I could name off several ugly people in reality who are very popular to make my point, but scars and such definately dont or shouldnt effect a CHA score, unless it effects your chrs self esteem. The other two scores that are usually mined WIS and INT are more hard and fast and cannot be worked around, or at least should not. I almost always min wisdom, because I prolly have like an 8 or 9 ATM in real life.

if not less

Stats, and the Dumping Thereof

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