BYODB you are absolutely right about one thing, lets refrain from quote wars because there is no way it doesn't become confrontational and in the end its two or more people trying to brow beat each other into submission.

So again I will state simply bullet points as I have done so before as its clear to me that you have taken to a point of view as is your right, but its one that suggests I am saying something other than what I am actually saying taking it to extremes and absolutes I do not support, and I am going to defend my corner in the face of that .

1.) No one least of all me is asking for a bio to be updated on the fly to account for every little change of clothing, hair style, shape shifting status etc etc.

2.) No one least of all me is asking for OOC information to be in the bio, quite the contrary as should be obvious from this thread.

3.) I stated by saying I didn't think it should be a server rule, part of me now feels that it should be an RP cultural expectation as opposed to an official rule. I have never advocated banning or slapping of wrists and have never said I have, this is your extreme not mine. Plenty of RP servers have expectations of how players comport themselves and their characters. Amia forges its own path with its own expectations, I guess what I have been saying all along is that we could raise them a little for ourselves and in doing so for others through this tiny thing.

4.) General physical appearance ~is~ important to the bio that I am talking about, height being one of those characteristics I feel it it is relevant and could be included in the bio as I have described them. Its all about building up a mental image prior and during any RP that can be assisted by a bio as I have described it (I keep highlighting the as I have described it part as I am tired of people going to ridiculous extremes and claiming its what I want.)

5.) I don't think it's hard to believe that interactions with a bio (as I have described it) could be more immersive, more entertaining and just plain easier, when compared to either the OOC fest bio or the blank/default bio.

Note the conditional phrases I have deliberately used in this post (and others), as it seems some people are ignoring these.

It occurs to me that what I should have done from the start is provide some more examples (I did provide just one) of bio's I have created over my time here, my technique has improved over my earliest characters and I like to think it helps other players get an picture of my character which in turn enriches by a small degree any interactions that take place. Also they help me as the player ground the character with some mundane details, which I find useful in informing and shaping their RP.

A small young woman, often dressed in combat leathers than have been dyed a variety of greens, olives and browns the better to blend into the terrain and shadows. Even her skin has been dyed in patched camouflage patterns which she renews before each patrol.

The longbow is her weapon of choice and its usually in her hand or across her back.

This is from my archer Aggie Agetha which some of you may know.

Shoulder length brunette hair frames a oval face with a fair complexion, large hazel doe eyes and full lips she is pretty but her poise and manner exude a calm mien and she displays no arrogance or guile in her bearing.
She stands an average height of about 5’4 an is physically healthy and hale with good general tone and musculature but not overly so.
Iconography of the Red Knight is displayed with greater focus is given to iconography of Salandra, most prominent however is a golden chalice brimming with blood with three crimson drops to the left which is always displayed over the left side of the chest of any garment or surcoat worn.

This is from my hospitalier Abernathy Marshall which some of you may know.

My Doomguide Natalia Winters is shown as an example in my o/p.

They are all different in composition style and you maybe able to tell in which order they were written, you will note that the information they carry is not the same and none of it is OOC or excruciating detail about trivia. They are all about setting the general appearance and mien of the character they portray. I hope these examples make it clear as to what I am actually getting at, and its not an exetreme and its not an absolute.

Of course they are not going to be literally accurate in game 100% of the time, maybe not even 50% of the time because clothing will change, the character's mood will change and so on, but is not the function of the bio (as I have described it) to be a minute by minute representation of the character.

See you all in game!

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Aggie Agetha War Knight (much to the chagrin of certain players and character )

Thinking about this topic last night while I was the codor market hall, I did a quick lookieloo at 5 or 6 PC's that were there at the time, only one (not including me) had a custom bio, the rest were either blank or the default, leaving the market all to the groups RP'ing int eh town square it was more like 90% had bio's but most of those were these huge walls of text that had everything form physical description and weapon descriptions, to occ details, to things you need to make spot checks to notice.

My point is the player base is all over the map with this, and that can create some confusion for new players, as a new player I wasn't sure what the conventions were regarding bio's when I first logged on so on my first character I blanked it out, I was glad to see that we have tools to change and update our bio windows, but the more I looked at other bios to get a sense of what I needed to put there the more confused I became on the issue, I can see where a lot of new players would be intimidated by the walls o' text on some bio's and may just forgo the process altogether.

I opted to make some short simple bios that were just a few lines, detailing some appearance but more giving information about how the character carries themselves, or what a passer by might notice about them, short and simple. I'm personally fine with my avatar being a more or less accurate representation of what my character looks like, their heights is whatever the avatars height is, unless your character is not of average height for your race (its called average for a reason, most people fit into it) i don't see a need to detail it unless you have a specific reason, I've played PnP games where you can roll some dice to determine height based on a base height an weigh with modifies for race and gender, it adds flavor for sure but in a system where you are given an avatar with physical attributes I find it just as easy to go with those physical dimensions. That said I notice that a lot of people have a physical description stat block that has just base facts and in that format it makes more sense to list statistics like that.

I like natalia's bio examples, they are pretty short and to the point, mine are a bit more bare bones than even those at the moment but as I get more of a feel for my characters I'll probably flesh them out to something comparable with those short 3-4 line descriptions. I don't think we should begrudge anyone that makes a new character and wants to let their on the fly interactions with others help them inform their character, I see nothing wrong with encouraging bio's, giving good examples is the best way to do that, but if you want to go down the road to requireing anything, you need to have specific guidelines so everyone knows what is expected of a bio and a standard format that people need to use, even a variety of samples could be helpful to those unsure of what to put, gives them a starting point and my spark the imagination a bit.

You really can't force other players to play the way you want them to, but some suggestions are nice. Maybe more characters should have Bios, and maybe some Bios are too long and stuff. Isn't that all that needs to be said?



Obviously.

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I think it's a bit silly when you see a Bio telling you that you require a skill check of x in y skill. Skill rolls aren't enforced between player to player interaction and only serve as extra flavour if both/all involved want to participate in the roll (I haven't seen any changes that indicate otherwise, feel free to correct me if that's changed), to my knowledge Grapple rolls are enforced (and maybe a couple of others, I can't remember though), but otherwise the only time I know of when skill rolls are required are when a DM says, such as in events or NPC interactions.

Regarding height, Bio's may not be required but when you need to give description IC of another character, including their estimated height, a blank bio doesn't help. Sure you can simply ask in a tell but a small summary at the top of the Bio like has been mentioned is very convenient for quick access to what you would immediately see about another character. Tells can break immersion for some characters, I've known of a few who don't use party chat at all and ignore tells that are not important and don't necessarily require an answer or attention.

-hair
-height
-body build
-eye colour
-age appearance (not the most important, but helpful nonetheless)

If anything an accurate Bio is mostly just a convenience factor and adds to the immersion usually of ones willing to read them. When I write long Bio's I don't expect others to read even half of it, so I put the above example of summarised physical appearances for ease of access and convenience. In the end it does not matter to me if you have no bio, short bio, long bio, irrelevant bio (does annoy me a bit sometimes but other than that nothing major), or default bio, as I said it is just added convenience but it's a major convenience in the end - but the biggest problem I see in this is not unwillingness to read or even use a Bio, it's the attitude of players who refuse to read a bio and 're-write' other characters appearances, so to speak. Ignoring/disregarding RP isn't allowed, if it happened IC, then it happened and that is that unless a DM says otherwise. So that brings me to the point, does refusing to read a Bio, 're-writing' the others physical traits and enforcing it via your RP (I'm talking about actually enforcing it, not just RP'ing that your character is different in how they perceive other characters, delusional, under some hypnosis etc...), does this not count as disregarding/ignoring RP too?

Like I said, using the time you've ( Not you, I mean people who do this, in general and I'm not saying that you do) spent on the server is no excuse to be needlessly rude because you care not for what the other characters yours interacts with look like and replace their description with your own and enforce it as law, IC and OOC.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

"Oh, but you need to make an arbitrarily high loooooooooore-check to know that my tiefling character's tattoooooos, say Baatooooor."

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

"But I thought your Tiefer was a descendent of a Balor?"

"Yeah, duh. Why do you think s/he chose that tattoo?"


"..." *logs out and head-desks for the entirety of the day.*

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Skill checks in descriptions drive me mad. People just pick arbitrary numbers out of the air and place them on similarly random things!

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."

This topic isn’t about trying to "force" people to play any kind of way, although on Amia we ~are~ forcing people to play a certain way because its a role play server...so clearly your expected to comport yourself and your characters in a certain manner.

This topic is discussing a point about that manner, and the use of a small simple available tool to improve that manner.

I am not sure why I am still having to take other peoples words out of my mouth, players are of course free to agree, disagree or not give a damn about this topic but please pay me the courtesy of not twisting my words and intent into something so far removed from my actual clearly stated opinion as to require the Hubble telescope to see it.

Thank you

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Aggie Agetha War Knight (much to the chagrin of certain players and character )

Calling for dice rolls in a bio is something I have seen, and when I do see it, I have a reaction. Not because I think it is wrong or anything, but just because the thought that broadcasts like a neon billboard through my head is U R NOT A DM I M U PRETINDER@!

But then I take a Xanax and everything is normal again.

I think of Life Path, which I absolutely love.

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Active Character:
Aerosque Cain - Retired
Rhek the Wall
Anzety Alean'ndar

For my fire genasi the bio basically just describes a stereotype fire genasi. Just so people really know and don't get put off by the glowing eyes widget etc.
I find it helpful to some. Especially newbies ^.^ (i do hope i will be able to play him later)




My mage, on the other hand, is more specifik. I've written "You may remember him as the son of the man who sells cabbage in southern cordor"
And lo to my surprise - people actually pick up on that small line.
They go all "aren't you the...?"


Neat huh?

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

the bio is the most important thing that should be made during CHR creation. It should be thought about before you start the game. Not sayin it should be a rule either, but at the same time, I cannot have my chrs initiate interaction with a blank chr that I cannot even tell what they look like. Theyd have to initiate with me in that instants.

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Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry

Key rule!
"Make it simple stupid! "

Nobody likes a wall of text!

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

Zelly's bio is long, but I can't help it. She's such a freak that I can't help but let those who care to read it know she has horns and other draconic features that I currently can't stick to the character model IG.

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Hi, I'm new. I approve of the message that's been trying to be expressed here.

Bios are awesome. Frankly, I'm shocked by the resistance to the idea. Bios are best left to be short and give a lot of information across quickly. I could agree with this if there was no way for you to change your bios, but now there is.

For example, my character has a ~140 word bio (I try to keep below 150). Too much and people may fret about reading too much. Too short and [for me] it's too hard to get everything across that one would notice in general. That's really not unreasonable to read in a short time (and I may tend to type about half that during active RP, hah). Without my character's bio, you wouldn't know that her dress is often stained with oil and grease, you wouldn't know that she carries a set of tools on her belt. And you wouldn't know that her pseudodragon, is not alive at all, but a clockwork version [at least if it's working on a given day!]. Yes, I could retype this every 30 seconds that someone new comes into perception range, but, I really do not wish to do that.

I personally do like long bios, but they're probably best left for a character thread on the forums. That way, you don't put off anyone who's put off by long ones and those that you interact with commonly, will likely read your IC threads.

The in general part is an important part of the my previous statement [yeah, I'm all over the place, sorry]. I want people to know how someone looks most of the time. Yes, they can be wearing different clothing, have a different hair style or just finished drinking ale at the pub, but then it's up to me to convey that my character is acting abnormal.

Someone brought up a point about their drow just being an average gal (fellow?) so the left the bio blank. I wouldn't call that unreasonable. However! If the bio mentioned that the character looks like your average drow without any house marking or whatever the style is at the time, then just that tells me a lot more than something blank. For me personally, if I had a well developed spider loving cleric character, I wouldn't give much thought to the blank bio. If the bio told me how average she was, then jackpot, I've just found the newest member of the house I'm trying to build.

For those that do leave blank bios and are proclaiming to others to just emote how you look at the time, are you actually doing this?

Anyway, sorry for rawr rawr rawr-ing as a new person, just thought I could provide some helpful insight from an outside. Hopefully I didn't step on [crush] anyone's toes!

QFT

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Aggie Agetha War Knight (much to the chagrin of certain players and character )