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Summary for folks just browsing: Can't find In-game people to talk about giving enchantment buffs for questing, possible request a DM to cast a few for a Dream Coin.

So, I was pondering about adventuring with my lowbie bard, who frequently runs out of gold to travel to Kohl and such for RP. I've seen high level folks give buffs to new adventurers to help out a bit as they go run about before and I thought this was awesome with player interaction, but occasionally either as a new, or long gone returning player, I don't have such contacts available or they aren't hanging about Cordor. Lo' though...there is a DM afoot!

What would be the feelings for say for trading in a Dream Coin for a basic set of DM cast buffs for a boost to go adventuring? Nothing too crazy, and something that would last more than one encounter at least if I cast it at a low caster level. Perhaps this would only be available up to a certain total character level so as not to be abused by more seasoned adventurers.

Now I know I could always drop a DC to get XP or Gold, but honestly I'd rather be out in the world earning that with the possibility of running into more RP. It's just that I run out of cast spells pretty quick and I can't rest often enough to go on long adventures currently.

Thoughts?

I know it's an old complaint, but it actually hadn't even occurred to me to spend a DC on xp+gold. You'd need to increase the payoff by about x5-10 before that would become worth it.

Spending it on buffs... yes, they'd have to last a while. But they could significantly help in a dungeon (I'm thinking of levels 10-15) and directly help gain a lot of xp.

- Is there a way to justify them IC if you're not solo? Where did the 'gifts' come from?

In other news: Hey everybody! I have a Bard and buff-happy sorcerer! The 'people looking for a group' queue is frequently empty when I'm on (let alone within 5 levels) - come get some buffs, they're tasty!

Sounds like this could possibly open up the Can of worms regarding DM Favorism.

steveb_uk wrote:

I know it's an old complaint, but it actually hadn't even occurred to me to spend a DC on xp+gold. You'd need to increase the payoff by about x5-10 before that would become worth it.

And this, too.
Currently it takes 4 DC's to level up

Ah, then I've been underestimating it in my head. I was comparing to their usefulness for re-levelling rebuilds, which basically means I'd always save them for that.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Sounds like this could possibly open up the Can of worms regarding DM Favorism.

If a policy was determined on what buffs were to be cast and since DC's are logged as spent, how much favoritism would be involved?

Spend 1 DC = Mage Armor, 1 Stat Buff, etc etc...

Not so much hey..if I give you 1 DC will you cast...blah blah blah...

steveb_uk wrote:

- Is there a way to justify them IC if you're not solo? Where did the 'gifts' come from?

Went to the local academy and requested from a teacher? Maybe one of the mage guards on the way out of town was willing?

I'd believe it's easier to explain those buffs than standing in the middle of town and suddenly *POOF* I'm more experienced and wealthy!

Why couldn't you just pay gold for it? We already have clerics granting healing. If we wanted such a service, they could easily buff you. Something a little more potent with longer duration than potions, but with the restriction of not being available in your pocket. Would make UMD a bit less of a necessity, too.

But just in case you didn't realize, we do have potions, scrolls and cast/day items around already.

I don't actually like my idea for one reason, though: it encourages rushing. If you have to buy you're buffs in Cordor and you're on a timer, you won't be as likely to stop and take your time with RP.

What about NPC's in major cities (Clerics in khol, or mages in the Mystran tower) that have a Pay to buff service?

Paying gold for buffs in a temple would seem like the most logical thing. Dreamcoins for temporary buffs? Hell no. They're scarce as it is. The only time I have ever used DC's for XP (Or for anything, really) was when I screwed something up with my character and needed to be dropped to X level, then re-leveled up back to where I was. That was only because I didn't want to make my buddies wait for me to catch up.

It was needing to go adventuring to get the gold to pay for stuff. My pockets run pretty empty from travel for RP unless in my brief adventures I get lucky with a treasure drop of a weapon to sell or something.

Unless the NPC clerics/mages are handing out charity buffs it's still the same situation.

buying dream coins, 100k a pop

(if only DMs would let me....)

dreamcoins are to rare to waste on exp/gold or temp buffs, maybe just run around Skeletor island killing the lowbie monsters and vender the stuff, selling all scrolls and wands you find to PCs then also using all minor mythals you find to portal around and save cash.

I'd say if you are willing to splodge a DC on such things with such little regard, you have far too many Dream Coins, take a leaf out of Svensk's page and start donating them to people who are making requests that they likely spent months saving for due to a low income of coins, for example. If anything, attempt to get the DM to help you by possessing a temple/mage npc of your choosing and see where it will get you. I personally think this is a ridiculous concept myself.

This seems like a case of more "money" than sense.

Yeah. Some players will take a long time to get 6-8 coins (like me) and spending them on jumping just one character from level 16-18 is a spectacular waste. I'd rather have rebuilds/body mods.

As for the buffs... I guess the 'gold for potions' already covers a lot of it. With the other recent threads in mind, I'm always looking for what will be inclusive for newbies, and seeing people get ahead because of DCs isn't it.

Well having no long term concept on how rare the coins are and how much the average request is that players make cost I'm somewhat unaware that was frivolous spending.

Granted now the general consensus is that this is a wasteful idea and thats why I made the post to begin with. Since I don't have a long term view of playing on Amia it helps to get the opinions of more experienced players.

Certainly the concept wasn't brought up to find a way to abuse or get around other in-game systems.

More it was the idea that if you already had the option to quick level/get gold from spending them why not this kind of idea. Turns out that even the establish method is rather silly to use already and generally seen as wasteful.

Thanks though for the input!

The Pay gold for BUff service already exists, basically, in the form of the stacks of potions available.

Yup. Also, what Mystran Tower?

This also strikes me as an incredible waste of DCs and I burn most* of my DCs for levels.

*99%

You're better off saving your DCs, because eventually you'll want something that requires them. Depending on your play times and luck, they're randomly common or very rare (which I feel has been an issue forever...), and there's no easy way to get a lot of them. The rate for XP is pretty laughable, something I wish I'd understood prior to burning like... 19 of them a few years ago for about 4-5 levels. You can easily get from level 1 to 30 in two weeks or less if you play frequently and make good use of the party finder. I especially wouldn't spend them on something temporary like buffs when you can buy potions for cheap.

Yossarin wrote:

Yup. Also, what Mystran Tower?

Perhaps it's called the something academy of kholingen nowadays. Me no remember

Silent2001 wrote:

This also strikes me as an incredible waste of DCs and I burn most* of my DCs for levels.

*99%

That's because you're a Dm, and you have plenty. Most players never burn DC's for Levels, because they are so rare. You get 1DC/3 hours spent in the client. Players get ~ 1/½ every month

Edit - Read my post in a happy manner! I mean no offence.

Am I understanding this correctly? What you're asking for basically already exists, FastKev. You can spend a DC to get a pile of gold, which you can use to buy potions. A couple of Ghostly Visage potions are super cheap, and really kind of make a lowbie's day.

Also, why not just ask someone IC? I've had lowbies visit the Lathander church in Cordor.

"Could I please trouble you for blessings for protection in my travels? I'll happily make a donation to the church,"

IC donation, IC buffs, go on your merry way.

TheGoddessOfAmazing© wrote:

Also, why not just ask someone IC? I've had lowbies visit the Lathander church in Cordor.

"Could I please trouble you for blessings for protection in my travels? I'll happily make a donation to the church,"

IC donation, IC buffs, go on your merry way.

Try finding somebody to do that. And Now try during Eurotimes!

TheGoddessOfAmazing© wrote:

IC donation, IC buffs, go on your merry way.

I like this lots! More of that kind of thing, etc.

Also to players:
*Surly Drow*: Can you make yourself useful?
*Perky sorcerer*: Would you like... THESE BUFFS?! *ching ching ching*
*Surly Drow*: Hmmph. That is satisfactory. (Translation: woo-hoo!)

Moral: Buffs are welcome in any party, spread them around IC for great justice.
(However - yes, Eurotimes. Ugh.)

To try and answer both Lizzie and TheGoddess, let me start with the latter:

The idea was in lieu of being unable to find someone to RP with for those types of scenario. I advocate for RP first in any circumstance rather than a mechanical shortcut. So, if a player was able to be found in that case I wouldn't even have gone the mechanical way.

Lizzie, it was less trying for the quick cash to buy the potions, but a temporary boost to in-game earn the gold to buy more potions. Rather a reverse of the established method that required more work on my part.

Also, I'd like to apologize if any of this seemed like a slap in the face of people who are working to save on DC's for loftier goals than was suggested here. It certainly wasn't meant to be that.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Silent2001 wrote:

This also strikes me as an incredible waste of DCs and I burn most* of my DCs for levels.

*99%

That's because you're a Dm, and you have plenty. Most players never burn DC's for Levels, because they are so rare. You get 1DC/3 hours spent in the client. Players get ~ 1/½ every month

Edit - Read my post in a happy manner! I mean no offence.

At the risk of derailment... those numbers are actually incorrect, both for players and DMs. The calculation is different for DMs and for players, it's not straight across the board. If your character generally keeps to themselves and doesn't get involved in events and you afk while by yourself, ya, you'll be lucky to see 1 a month (I've been there). If your character is in an active faction and jumps into every event you can claw your way into and RPs even when sitting by yourself, etc. then you'll see a lot more than that.

It's 1 every 4 hours, and if you don't maintain the correct ratio of DM or player hours, you get 0.

Instead of a DC cost, perhaps gold? I don't disagree with the concept, I just think a DC is a bit too high a price.

I could see a character purchasing the service from a retired cleric or mage that has a cart stand somewhere though.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Instead of a DC cost, perhaps gold? I don't disagree with the concept, I just think a DC is a bit too high a price.

I could see a character purchasing the service from a retired cleric or mage that has a cart stand somewhere though.

If I'm remembering correctly, this already exists, too. (And I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it's free.)

Very_Svensk wrote:

Silent2001 wrote:

This also strikes me as an incredible waste of DCs and I burn most* of my DCs for levels.

*99%

That's because you're a Dm, and you have plenty. Most players never burn DC's for Levels, because they are so rare. You get 1DC/3 hours spent in the client. Players get ~ 1/½ every month

Edit - Read my post in a happy manner! I mean no offence.

I have 4 DCs, and I made more DCs playing then I ever did DMing.

If there's a DM on, your best bet would be to ask for a NPC possession. You may very well be able to get your tasty buffs for absolutely free if you play your cards right.

My clerics will often give lowbies basic buffs and protections, nothing outrageous mind you, but stats and an ac buff and neg energy protection, and a weapon buff for a small donation... My mages are not so inclined to be so generous and will insist on you making yourself useful to them for the privilege. I NEVER use the party advertiser, after some really bad experiences with parties established using it, and will look for those to RP and meet up with first. If you don't just run off when I'm in the party with you with a cleric or mage you -will- get buffs, but it's on -you- to let me know what you need before I rest and before I cast... I don't read minds, they took that ability away from me before birth.

I'm in the US but I'm on at all times, as I have no RL and play like forever each day ...

And Glim has a very solid point here about DCs:

Quote:

If your character generally keeps to themselves and doesn't get involved in events and you afk while by yourself, ya, you'll be lucky to see 1 a month (I've been there). If your character is in an active faction and jumps into every event you can claw your way into and RPs even when sitting by yourself, etc. then you'll see a lot more than that.

key phrase are... don't just spend all your time alone or be anti-social all the time... and don't bemoan the lack of interaction if you won't try to interact with major factions either PC or NPC. Now you don't have to do this all the time, but they -are- your best bets for those precious DCs.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Silent2001 wrote:

This also strikes me as an incredible waste of DCs and I burn most* of my DCs for levels.

*99%

That's because you're a Dm, and you have plenty. Most players never burn DC's for Levels, because they are so rare. You get 1DC/3 hours spent in the client. Players get ~ 1/½ every month

Edit - Read my post in a happy manner! I mean no offence.

I'm a player and I still have more DCs than some of the DMs. I dun think that it is a fair to say that a DM gets more DCs because he or she is a DM.
Your own initiatives can give you the most amount of DCs

I would add to previous sentiments regarding DCs and say that you don't have to be the kind of person who runs to every DM event or plot in order to get DCs, either. You don't even need to join a faction (though it can help!). The only thing it really takes is initiative - whether for a personal story that will involve others or for a grander scheme plotted by another. The point is that you need constant interaction with other characters. Tell your story, but tell it in a way that other people can grow from it, too.

I actually like the idea of a spell buff vending machine person.

Lutra wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

That's because you're a Dm, and you have plenty. Most players never burn DC's for Levels, because they are so rare. You get 1DC/3 hours spent in the client. Players get ~ 1/½ every month

Edit - Read my post in a happy manner! I mean no offence.

I'm a player and I still have more DCs than some of the DMs. I dun think that it is a fair to say that a DM gets more DCs because he or she is a DM.
Your own initiatives can give you the most amount of DCs

DMs can pick to log on DM side and do stuff earning DCs (all under thier control)
a player is all random luck, is a DM on,is that DM on the same server, is the DM watching you, does the DM think said RP is worth a DC.

I think its more of they can control the factors that gain them DCs unlike players so it just seems like they earn more DCs(and in some cases they might given you may have a crap timezone and/or your style of RP might not be thier cup or tea.)

Jes wrote:

I would add to previous sentiments regarding DCs and say that you don't have to be the kind of person who runs to every DM event or plot in order to get DCs, either. You don't even need to join a faction (though it can help!). The only thing it really takes is initiative - whether for a personal story that will involve others or for a grander scheme plotted by another. The point is that you need constant interaction with other characters. Tell your story, but tell it in a way that other people can grow from it, too.

tl;dr: Roleplaying =/= mindless grinding. You're actually supposed to be RPing before you hit 30.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

You're actually supposed to be RPing before you hit 30.

O.o really!? Yeah, true enough, my most active and often RP'd character isn't even 30 yet, and she's something like a year and a half old... is highly active in a major faction, and not liked by everyone she meets, cause Lawful Good =/= Lawful Nice ... but RP is much more important than levels.... always! Making a story for others to get involved in isn't always easy when new on a server, but not impossible, you want to get your feet wet, get involved in others' stories first.

... unless you only want to be the biggest baddest jackass around, then there's always a DM to stomp you and let you know you're still a little guy...

that last was a joke btw!

You run out of gold travelling to Kohlingen? o.O

You should ask for some frequent nautical miles.

Actually if you're going there a lot why don't you set it as home on your portal wand? Then you go for free after a reset.

Selmak wrote:

You run out of gold travelling to Kohlingen? o.O

You should ask for some frequent nautical miles.

Actually if you're going there a lot why don't you set it as home on your portal wand? Then you go for free after a reset.

Yea, I did that finally last night. I've been traveling a lot as people direct Nhalis to different locations through RP. So I've done less fighting and more paying to travel to places. Plus after he goes adventuring his usually pays to take a bath at the Temple of Sune. Can't look your best around town covered in monster gore.

FastKev wrote:

Plus after he goes adventuring his usually pays to take a bath at the Temple of Sune.

Hate to give business to the competition, but Kohlingen does have a bath house. It's just full of stuffy people and not as much fun as Cordor's.

All I really have to say about the recent turn of discussion is that if you're RP'ing for the sake of DC's or worrying about how many DC's the DM's have... well, you're doing it wrong.

I worry about the fact that the distribution of DC's is unfair... that is all.
-____-

ainjyll wrote:

All I really have to say about the recent turn of discussion is that if you're RP'ing for the sake of DC's or worrying about how many DC's the DM's have... well, you're doing it wrong.

I don't know if unfair is the word I'd use, but I feel like it could be improved upon in some ways, because it's been backwards for the longest time. I also sincerely doubt that anyone on this server nowadays RPs solely for DCs, and that argument has been used for so long that it's prevented any progress towards balance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a player wanting DCs. That is why the entire system exists, as a way to encourage and reward good RP. Shaming a player when they disagree with how DC distribution works by making them look greedy or only in it for the DCs is not a good thing to do, imo, especially when there are serious flaws and holes in the system. (And I'm not referring to specifically ainjyll, people have been saying things like that forever, and while it's not a totally meritless point, it's not a very good one IMO.)

Here's how the current system works, to my understanding;
DMs - 1 DC x 4 DM hours, provided your DM hours and player hours do not exceed a 1:4 ratio, +1 DC flat if you put in at least 4 DM hours a week.
Developers - Nothing for Dev hours, but if also a DM, the flat rate is +2 DCs instead of +1.
Players - Rewarded for RP, provided a DM is online, watches the RP, and decides to reward the players involved. No time-based limitation.

The flaws/contradictions I see in the system right now are;
1) On average, a DM who puts in a decent amount of hours will receive more DCs than most players, even if those players solely RP and are online much more.
2) A player may not see a DC, or a very low amount (1-2), in any given time frame if their play-times conflict with DM schedules, or if they are unlucky (the DM is online for a specific event, the DM jumps to them as they're transitioning through areas to get to RP and leaves because nothing is happening, etc).

I have zero problems with the way DC distribution works for DMs. What I'm suggesting, though, is that it also applies to player hours in a more limited fashion. Arelith does an EXP-for-RP thing, if you spend a certain amount of time RPing, you get EXP automatically. There are a few ways this could be accomplished on Amia for DCs. Ideally, this would only apply for time you spend RPing, but I'm not sure of the limitations NWN has to support that kind of restriction.

Firstly would be a system similar to the DM hours, where if you put in X hours as a player, you get Y DCs at the end of a week. Obviously, X should be higher and Y should be capped at a maximum (1-2). Another way would just to have a threshold; if you play X hours as a player, you get Y DCs at the end of the week. Doesn't stack, just a flat reward for playing a lot. Could even set up a max of hours per day that count if you were worried about idlers.

This kind of system would let everyone who is active on the server gain DCs over time, regardless of play-times/luck. With a cap or flat reward, it would curb any abuse that could happen (IE, idlers, DC farmers), since if you're active on the server, chances are you're going to be actually playing during that time frame anyway. I don't think it would cause a 'flood' of requests or new DCs, either, because the rate of gaining them is still slow, just consistent. It would be a way for active players to be rewarded for being such.

Well, that's my piece on it.

It's not ideal - but sure sounds more equal.

I'm not in favor of any system that rewards a player for sitting afk IG. Sadly any automated system like the one you're suggesting is abusable in that fashion. I've been on servers where there's some sort of timer built in too where if you haven't moved or typed something in chat for X minutes, you are moved to an "idle status" and stop having your time counted towards (in this case XP). But still all you have to do is say "blah" in chat every 15min or however long it is.

Also, your note on Dev DCs is wrong, I get the same amount as every other DM as does msheeler (which is another example of a Dev DM). We don't get anything for our Dev time. DMs also don't get anything for the horrendous amount of time we spend on the forums reading story posts, IA posts, requests, plot notes, etc. etc.

*edit* Oh and I forgot one other thing I was going to mention; that we've taken on new DMs that generally fill the time slots that were previously devoid of DM activity. We do try to get a good spread of folks who can DM at different times so that it's a little more even for folks.

Glim wrote:

But still all you have to do is say "blah" in chat every 15min or however long it is.

I can't think of anyone who would really bother to do that and if they did couldn't a penalty of some kind be applied? Automated systems are silly but it feels like this sort could be modified until it was basically fool-proof.

I dunno. I spent most of my play time (especially my first year) with the impression that DCs were a thing that happened to other people (y'know like Americans/Europeans etc), and I sort of just got used to that and stopped caring about it. Don't get me wrong, I like having them! But I don't really think about whether I "should" be getting more or how the distribution is unfair or whatever. Logically though, if you compare a timed system of getting DCs to what amounts to a Skinner box (particularly one that isn't actually on all the time), the distribution is a little skewed. I guess?

A DC for adventuring buffs?

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