AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Last edited by RaveN on Thu, Sep 27 2012, 19:44 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Yossarin wrote:

Immediate problem with mechanical penalties after death: they won't move from server to server. You'll die on server B and wind up on server A in tip top shape.

Easy to script around this. For example, you PC can acquire an invisible item when it dies, like a skin, I'm sure? If not, a visible item with a integer variable that keeps track of your status and sends you to the server B fugue. As for your body? You'd need a body generator script.

I dont know the mechanics so pardon if it may anger you if I ask this. How come we dont have everything on 1 server?

Thryliss wrote:

I dont know the mechanics so pardon if it may anger you if I ask this. How come we dont have everything on 1 server?

AFAIK we use Windows not Linux so all of the NWNX ports, (mainly NWNX Areas, and NWNX Haks) aren't ported very well to Windows, and don't work very well.

It's my understanding that it would be possible with Linux but that's a major undertaking to say the least. It's possible (i.e. Sinfar), but definitely time consuming and not easy to implement without bugs.

"Easy to script around" means longer wait time. I was fishing for solutions that required minimal or no scripting at all so that they could happen, you know...right away.

I'm of the opinion that a mechanical change will not ultimately solve what is a matter of immersing yourself and treating certain things that must be made light of since its a game (in this case death) with the due gravity it deserves. I agree with one of the above posters, sure when you die in a random crawl its easy enough to just shrug off as a KO or the like, perhaps even for pvp if agreed to. Death is a big thing, and when it happens it should be -treated- as such. A corpse system or death penalties are just going to add mechanical clunkiness that the same players will ignore anyway, or log out until they disappear. Its an issue of roleplay responsibility not mechanical consequences, and there is no easy solution, as there rarely is to problems of immersion. Be the bigger man and roleplay your own deaths and the deaths you cause properly, and take a deep breath when some else does not, if it is so bad then just walk away from it. A corpse left over or a -10 to all your stats is not going to change that behavior.

Yossarin wrote:

Immediate problem with mechanical penalties after death: they won't move from server to server. You'll die on server B and wind up on server A in tip top shape.

Meh. Not that big of a deal. Who is gonna port to another server just to do that? I doubt the stat penalties will last more than 5 minutes or something (right?). I was thinking it wouldn't last that long and the penalty would be maybe only -2 to all stats. A real drastic penalty however, woul cause players to cheat the system.

Murex wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Immediate problem with mechanical penalties after death: they won't move from server to server. You'll die on server B and wind up on server A in tip top shape.

Meh. Not that big of a deal. Who is gonna port to another server just to do that? I doubt the stat penalties will last more than 5 minutes or something (right?). I was thinking it wouldn't last that long and the penalty would be maybe only -2 to all stats. A real drastic penalty however, woul cause players to cheat the system.

Sadly, folks swapped servers to avoid respawn all the time before we had to make changes to crack down on it mechanically. I would imagine the same would prove true for this.

Bobo mentioned that it's not in people's best interest to Rp weakness after defeat. I would mention that it's not in the -character's- best interest to be weak and fragile, but rather, it is in the -player's- interest. And it's a mild concession (To act slightly from a player mindset) that ultimately breeds grand results.

The goal, the reason why you can still do this and be self-interested, is that it creates Roleplay FROM the situation where people would have just walked away to come back later. So it stops it from happening and replaces with a scenario where people Rp together.

That's the gain. That's what's worth it. The roleplay.

I think the argument could made against it, saying that you should always Rp your character's interests, and that anything else is unnecessary OOC cooperation, or even metagaming! But I would argue the stronger case that taking 10 Isaac's greater missiles to the chest, dying, then coming back to life and releasing a hellball of your own is perhaps worse. As then you have your character ignoring injury.

Of course, I'm against forcing these things on people, so if that's how people want to play it, as a player, there's nothing I can do to tell them otherwise. But if a community standard is upheld, then it'll become the case. Look at simpler things, like using asterisks for emoting, emoting in the third person, and anything else that is considered a typical and modern faculty of our Roleplay that's not clearly outlined in the rules. We agree to behavior, because it's the norm. So it's simply a matter of making physical/mental/emotional injury post-death a norm.

This may be dragging the discussion in circles, but (what I see as) the single major contributor to death being treated so blithely hasn't been mentioned for a while, so I'll bring it up again:

Has anyone ever intelligently defended the existence of Raise Dead scrolls, available in every town for a trivial amount of gold and usable by every character?

I'm trying to imagine how different the PnP game I play in, if my character knew that every other party member was packing the ability to resurrect me twenty times. I imagine I'd be a lot more cavalier about taking risks and the possibility of being killed. Heck, I imagine I'd be a lot more cavalier about it in RL, too, if I knew that no matter how badly my decisions worked out for me, my boyfriend could just spend $200 and have me back within a few seconds. Imagine the US Marines with Raise Dead scrolls.

Fixing this would require no special scripting. It would require no overhaul of the server culture. It could be done with the next reset. And poof! Suddenly death means something again.

It'd certainly increase the importance of Clerics. If you had a system where people could bring fallen comrades to Clerics (Ie: Body system, as an example) for raising, I could see it being pretty neat.

If we did this, we wouldn't likely see an immediate change, as people have all kinds of raise dead scrolls still in their inventory. Some people really hoard those things.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

It'd certainly increase the importance of Clerics.

Good. That's how it *should* be.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

If you had a system where people could bring fallen comrades to Clerics (Ie: Body system, as an example) for raising, I could see it being pretty neat.

Agreed, though that's a separate layer of complexity that can be added on later, when the scripting and design becomes convenient.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

If we did this, we wouldn't likely see an immediate change, as people have all kinds of raise dead scrolls still in their inventory. Some people really hoard those things.

I'm not sure I agree. Suddenly that stack of 50 scrolls would become a precious commodity. People would start using them the way people used to use Potions of Reality: "Do I really want to expend this resource in this situation, knowing how difficult it will be to replace? Or is there a better way around the present problem?"

That's a reasonable argument. And I agree about the "Add the layer of complexity later." I'd be curious to hear thoughts from others on the matter as a whole, though.

I sort of like the body idea in the context that it would make clerics more important. I think it would really kill any hunting party without a cleric, though. Imagine slogging through Cordor, scrounging up adventurers for a crawl through the orc caves, only to have your budding wizard with 12hp get unfortunately smacked down by a critical from the orc's bastard sword on the first spawn. Now that 30 minutes you spent gathering people turns into another 30 minutes of finding someone to revive your poor mage. Then, since it's already been an hour, your front line fighter suddenly has to go because it's dinner time. You've earned 24xp.

Get ready to write a script that strips people's raise dead scrolls... before they buy about 500. -.-

DerkDerkistan wrote:

I sort of like the body idea in the context that it would make clerics more important. I think it would really kill any hunting party without a cleric, though. Imagine slogging through Cordor, scrounging up adventurers for a crawl through the orc caves, only to have your budding wizard with 12hp get unfortunately smacked down by a critical from the orc's bastard sword on the first spawn. Now that 30 minutes you spent gathering people turns into another 30 minutes of finding someone to revive your poor mage. Then, since it's already been an hour, your front line fighter suddenly has to go because it's dinner time. You've earned 24xp.

I follow.

It's the sort of thing I'd happily see disabled for low level characters, when even if they're running with a dream team party (Ftr/Wiz/Brd/Rog/Clr) ...the Cleric wouldn't be able to raise the dead anyway. You need to be... level 9, isn't it?

Could do free rez upto level 10. Higher level characters have a bit more survivability.

Could also consider adding Raise Dead to Druid (Or even Ranger/Paladin/BG) if there aren't enough clerics to go around.

I'm against anything that makes hunting and the XP grind more obnoxious than it already is. Even with the current system Luca and Talyne have to -really- like you to be convinced to go out and hunt. Luca has less than 10k to his name because I dislike it so much, and if you added in even more irritating "layers"...well...

NinjaClarinet wrote:

I'm against anything that makes hunting and the XP grind more obnoxious than it already is. Even with the current system Luca and Talyne have to -really- like you to be convinced to go out and hunt. Luca has less than 10k to his name because I dislike it so much, and if you added in even more irritating "layers"...well...

I agree. This system being just implemented for pvp would be optimal imo.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

I've got to agree with NC. Unless you have a consistent group of people to play with, leveling is just a cumbersome experience that goes on, and on until you hit 30.

While it adds an interesting layer to RP, it would just prove to be to much of a hassle, I think.

One thing I have noticed since my return is that it is an even worse experience than before. Leveling is even more painful with the seer lack of players of all levels around.

Last edited by Neus Scario on Fri, Sep 28 2012, 0:04 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Really? I actually had very little trouble finding parties with the party finder (go figure). Sometimes you have to wait, and it probably depends on the times you play, but I had a really easy time leveling up my new character. The only thing I can complain about is that some areas just don't have comparable EXP, so you end up running the same dungeons over and over because they're optimal for your time invested. I must have run Mindflayers at least 200 times - I have nightmares about squid-headed men and doorways that actively try to kill you now.

My basic observation about why this is so, aside from XP rates, is that a lot of other dungeons have a low number of spawns, or you can clear them so fast that you can't actually run a 'circuit' (IE, clearing the dungeon, and having the dungeon spawns ready again around or immediately after you clear the final room). Another thing is that there are probably a lot of dungeons (mainly lower level ones) that rarely get used because people just don't know about them, or are so far out of the way that it's inconvenient to get there.

Going back to Mindflayers again, it's easy to set one of your portal spots to the Forest of Despair, then run in the cave about 20 feet to the left, and then run to the top left of the Ruins and start. Frost Giants and Dark Spires, there's a portal node right in the middle of the place. You jump straight into the action, which people like. If I had to make a suggestion, add more leyline nodes near some of the less played dungeons, maybe?

(edit: Just to note I'm only talking about leveling in general here, not 'leveling as it pertains to some kind of new death system'.)

Mr. Hackums wrote:

My big thing is that if you want to see a change in others, make the change in yourself first. If you'd like or expect others to treat death with a modicum of severity, be ready and willing to do so yourself. Not just occasionally, or when it matters, but every time.

I'm telling you, if you can pull this off-- treating and remembering your wounds, making the pain count-- that kind of roleplay is going to be contagious. Everyone wants to see that what they've done matters, so if a character has stabbed, punched, kicked, knocked me unconscious, yeah, you can bet that I'm gonna remain docile, injured, hurt, exhausted.

And when people see this, they deliver the same. It's contagious. People want to be a part or above the standard. Make this the standard of your own interactions, and the people you interact with will do the same.

I see your point sir

But it is not contagious as i have spent weeks "ill" weeks "Dead" awaiting resurrection, yet people around me continue to ignore such standards. I know the "all-stars" play like this and many others including yourself no doubt. But we do it because we want to, the others are not going to just follow our examples when they don't have to its just how people are. There will have to be as others have maid note above other mechancial changes as well as rules & lore that enforce this kind of outlook to encourage a better style and quality of RP not just to show how its done but to say "this is what we expect" and there is no escape. Its like thinking if we just go hang out in a war torn country and show how peaceful and awesome we can be that they will follow suite and change no they will just shoot you its the combination of law & force mixed with the ideological values expressed that facilitate change.

Honeydew Snugglepoof wrote:

I love to see my characters suffer the consequences of loss and their actions generally, as it adds to the atmosphere that what they are doing has risks, and hence is something they pursue in spite of that. It can be small stuff from physical scars and ailments to mental ones. Though I also like to have the "permadeath" to hang over them. Robert might at the moment follow in the footsteps of my Arabett Matron and Sharina. His story could continue, I enjoy the plots immensly and the recent rp that was created through them, but I also enjoy them because I feel my character may die for meddling in them. If that happens I will allow the players to determine who are involved in the roleplay.

It is also why I would like to see the corpse system. I do not see a pvp loss as something to be anoyed about or to curse about. I see it as the glorious risk you took to try to defend someone or to get closer to your sinister goals, and that it actually makes all your victories more meaningful.

This is how we need to shape others to be, but it wont happen just by example.

Glim wrote:

Murex wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Immediate problem with mechanical penalties after death: they won't move from server to server. You'll die on server B and wind up on server A in tip top shape.

Meh. Not that big of a deal. Who is gonna port to another server just to do that? I doubt the stat penalties will last more than 5 minutes or something (right?). I was thinking it wouldn't last that long and the penalty would be maybe only -2 to all stats. A real drastic penalty however, woul cause players to cheat the system.

Sadly, folks swapped servers to avoid respawn all the time before we had to make changes to crack down on it mechanically. I would imagine the same would prove true for this.

Thus if the "death" system or anything like it was implemented we would need soultions to a number of little issues like this, like i said people will take advantage even the best of us can falter and do the wrong thing its human and our mood can get the better of us.

Lizzie wrote:

This may be dragging the discussion in circles, but (what I see as) the single major contributor to death being treated so blithely hasn't been mentioned for a while, so I'll bring it up again:

Has anyone ever intelligently defended the existence of Raise Dead scrolls, available in every town for a trivial amount of gold and usable by every character?

I'm trying to imagine how different the PnP game I play in, if my character knew that every other party member was packing the ability to resurrect me twenty times. I imagine I'd be a lot more cavalier about taking risks and the possibility of being killed. Heck, I imagine I'd be a lot more cavalier about it in RL, too, if I knew that no matter how badly my decisions worked out for me, my boyfriend could just spend $200 and have me back within a few seconds. Imagine the US Marines with Raise Dead scrolls.

Fixing this would require no special scripting. It would require no overhaul of the server culture. It could be done with the next reset. And poof! Suddenly death means something again.

This was in my idea why can everyone use scrolls ? just taking them out and forcing clerics to do the work would change enough it would force re-spawn itself in many cases maybe even assisting to deflate the economy of amia as well due to re-spawn penalties. No scrolls alone would change how death plays out i think removing them is a great idea or restricting there use to clerics only.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

I've got to agree with NC. Unless you have a consistent group of people to play with, leveling is just a cumbersome experience that goes on, and on until you hit 30.

While it adds an interesting layer to RP, it would just prove to be to much of a hassle, I think.

It needs to be a hassle it needs to be painful that is what death is, that is what the risk of adventuring is you could go level up farming or level up using the job system you never need to venture out. Its the risk you take leaving the city to seek fame and fortune. Death can not be avoided it should not be avoided and it should be remembered in the character and in you so that next time you are more careful next time you are afraid. if that's to much for you well the job system is there you can essentially level up pretty quickly using it and make a great deal of wealth. Adventuring and heroics is not for everyone, you could always "arrange" adventure with friends and make sure you have what it takes to survive, my gods it be like real D&D you would actually need to make sure you could handle traps and magic and healing .... my gods the character roles being to return

There's a theory about creating fear in games. A player is most "scared" when death looks imminent, but immersion is broken the moment that death delivers. "Oh crap I/my character is going to die! It's all over" goes to... "Dammit, it's going to take me hours to get all that exp back (well for me it kinda does >.> )". But of course, you can't just -never- deliver death, or you don't get that first feeling. It's a question of moderating difficulty, which you can't really do on an NWN server. It's a tough issue, because the only thing mechanics can do to make death more scary is to make death more annoying (more specifically, take your precious progress/time). And eventually it's going to be such a pain where the thrill isn't worth it. I wouldn't play a game where death penalties are particularly unforgiving. In light of this I think I'll go with the McHackum method: emphasise the RP. A lot of people naysay that and say it's got to be forced, but as I said - you can't force it without just making it irritating to the player, or making it downright unplayable for others. I know I feel compelled to take certain things more seriously when others are doing it. Call it a positive peer pressure thing. I've been able to talk people out of a "Well if you die, we'll just raise you" with a strong conviction of "What if you -don't- come back?" which has kind of been enough to put the fear in the characters, which in turn puts fear in the player. That's the advantage we have over horror games that we can use - we're actually trying to play our characters. There is a point of excess, of course - if we start RPing every time a character gets to "near death" as life-threatening, and that ends up happening a lot, it gets stale and tiresome. Need to pick when you apply it.

Job system can't replace hunting. Some jobs are very good at leveling, some jobs are especially terrible unless you arrange it beforehand. If you're taking RP-appropriate jobs, certain options are locked off to you. The job system would need an overhaul if we wanted to make adventuring so dangerous that casual adventuring isn't worth it. And in such a case we're not really playing D&D. Too much realism!

Party roles in NWN is not a good thing. It works on the tabletop because you have some control of who is going to show up and what they show up as. The guy who said he's playing the cleric, yeah okay, he's the cleric and will do cleric things. No such control on NWN, especially with the low player count (the alts I play in the evenings to relax - never run into anyone, these days). So it doesn't really work out.

I'm for not making death annoying. The timer after death that exists now is enough for me to not want to die, but that's just me. I'm all for preventing metagaming as much as possible, and being able to hear and see when your character is dead (as a player) is something that should be changed if possible. There are also role-play reasons to change how death works, but please don't make death kill the fun of this server. Making players just use the job system to level up because it's easier is going to kill a bit of the fun too, so be careful here.

Making death more annoying is a good thing. Because then people will want to avoided it and not be retarded and go "herp derp I can do what ever I want lulz".

Leveling on this server is already easy as hell. The Death System causes practically no punishment as it is. Currently at the moment I don't even see the point of having a death system. I would like to see a death system that actually causes some inconveniences, making people wanting to avoid it.

jimbono1 wrote:

Making death more annoying is a good thing. Because then people will want to avoided it and not be retarded and go "herp derp I can do what ever I want lulz".

Leveling on this server is already easy as hell. The Death System causes practically no punishment as it is. Currently at the moment I don't even see the point of having a death system. I would like to see a death system that actually causes some inconveniences, making people wanting to avoid it.

Death is annoying as is, making things harder will drive away the more casual leveling people and ultimately lower our numbers, and that means less Rp for us all.

jimbono1 wrote:

Making death more annoying is a good thing. Because then people will want to avoided it and not be retarded and go "herp derp I can do what ever I want lulz".

Leveling on this server is already easy as hell. The Death System causes practically no punishment as it is. Currently at the moment I don't even see the point of having a death system. I would like to see a death system that actually causes some inconveniences, making people wanting to avoid it.

This is terribly subjective. Usually people want a harsher death system for one of two reasons: They need mechanics to make *themselves* take death more seriously, or they want other people to take death more seriously. This thinking is pretty flawed if you ask me. We're dealing with human behaviour here, and what's good for you might not be good for anyone else. So it's really up to the individual to lead by example if they want to influence people in any particular direction. Peer pressure and all that. Berate characters who act frivolously about death and resurrection. Make a big deal out of it when it happens to you. If you're a cleric, demand that the beneficiary and/or their allies go on a quest for you!

Stronglikesumo wrote:

jimbono1 wrote:

Making death more annoying is a good thing. Because then people will want to avoided it and not be retarded and go "herp derp I can do what ever I want lulz".

Leveling on this server is already easy as hell. The Death System causes practically no punishment as it is. Currently at the moment I don't even see the point of having a death system. I would like to see a death system that actually causes some inconveniences, making people wanting to avoid it.

Death is annoying as is, making things harder will drive away the more casual leveling people and ultimately lower our numbers, and that means less Rp for us all.

Its a RP game, and DEATH should be more than annoying it should be "hang up the phone" and cry lol its DEATH not a inconvenience or a rise in fuel prices ! its about RP leveling is a side note, leveling is not what its about, EXP is not what its about ITEMS is not what its about its about RP adventure and experience and DEATH is one of the BAD ones or at least one of the more major things that happens, its something that should make you rage and cry and scream.

I am a psychologist i know its about human behavior guess what it wont change on its own lol and the server is designed for RP not power leveling and loot hording. We need rules & mechancis as well as DM and the player-base to accept that we are a RP server we want change and we want it for the better or worse we/i want immersion.

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

its something that should make you rage and cry and scream.

Sorry dude, but I come here to have some fun. Even real life BS doesn't make me do this, why should computer game? You seriously need to chill a bit. :mrgreen:

It would make no effect on people's RP who do not get involved in conflict RP. It would just make people who go out looking for fights and not care if they lose be more cautious. It would possibly even make the safe havens more popular for those who prefer social gaming. I do not find anything even remotely fun in people who attack you, fail, die, cry some OOCly, then 5minutes later the world is the same as if nothing ever happened. Do not say this doesn't happen, because it does. There needs to be consequences for actions, whether it is a game or not. I am not talking about permadeath-ing your characters. Just making it more of an inconvenience so people actually weigh their options of getting into a fight, or settling it some other reason.

Too many times have I seen RP where some guy calls someone a name, probably not even offensive, and 30 seconds later hellballs, greater ruins, IGMS's and what ever else is flying about, followed by the sudden appearance of random fully buffed people for no explainable reason. What happens after that? Nothing changed. Everyone just goes about their own ways. The server stagnates. It gets boring. People leave. Nothing changes.

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

I am a psychologist i know its about human behavior guess what it wont change on its own lol and the server is designed for RP not power leveling and loot hording. We need rules & mechancis as well as DM and the player-base to accept that we are a RP server we want change and we want it for the better or worse we/i want immersion.

Hear hear.

Again, i vote for increasing the significance of significant deaths, meaning premeditated pvp -> consequences, not respawn button.

You guys do know that the death and respawn system has been discussed many times before, right?

Unless you have some wildly new idea, stop chasing the red herring. It's not worth it.

I already gave my idea one or two pages before and no one commented.

I'll repeat myself though.

Cooldown after death. You die, you cannot respawn for X hours. Preferably only for pvp.

Also request-based assassinations.

jimbono1 wrote:

It would make no effect on people's RP who do not get involved in conflict RP. It would just make people who go out looking for fights and not care if they lose be more cautious.

If they truly don't care, no amount of rules thrown would stop them really anyway. Even permadeath won't work since they'll just make another toon with slightly different looks and go about it again.

Quote:

It would possibly even make the safe havens more popular for those who prefer social gaming. I do not find anything even remotely fun in people who attack you, fail, die, cry some OOCly, then 5minutes later the world is the same as if nothing ever happened. Do not say this doesn't happen, because it does. There needs to be consequences for actions, whether it is a game or not. I am not talking about permadeath-ing your characters. Just making it more of an inconvenience so people actually weigh their options of getting into a fight, or settling it some other reason.
Too many times have I seen RP where some guy calls someone a name, probably not even offensive, and 30 seconds later hellballs, greater ruins, IGMS's and what ever else is flying about, followed by the sudden appearance of random fully buffed people for no explainable reason.

And stricter rules IMHO won't change anything, except increase number of random fully buffed people (just to make sure they have greater chance to win). Or just simply jumping the situation directly to that entirely.
To make long story short: irresponsible players won't turn into responsible by trying to enforce stricter rules, this is not something they NEED to do in their life. And responsible players don't need such rules at all.
I personally don't mind stricter rules, I just don't believe they'll achieve desired effect.

Quote:

What happens after that? Nothing changed. Everyone just goes about their own ways. The server stagnates. It gets boring. People leave. Nothing changes.

Things do change, and you don't need PvP for those changes to happen.

For purposes of creating better role-play and less metagaming, I think death should change a bit, but only for those reasons. I also like the idea of no raise dead scrolls and having clerics needed to revive the dead, but I also think clerics need a slight improvement or two to actually allow more people to want to play them (and yes, I know there is a thread for this atm) if clerics become the backbone of every party. Only a handful of players will play a cleric just to help others.

Phearnun's Revised Heal and Death System

This is just a quick idea draw up, and take it with a grain of salt. The penalties and time can of course be altered. After reading the few posts I tried to come up with a system that both promotes consequences, yet does so in a manner it is not frustrating to the players or feels like punishment. The loss of items for instance would be too severe. So I decided on a stat penalty system that does not compromise the ability to participate in pvp or pvm and that promotes the use of clerical spells. It however has a small hook, and that hook is that if you do not accept your character is wounded and just do repetitive pvp your character will perhaps be hit with severe penalities for a time.

Another aspect is that the heal system should be looked at. I think in order to play your character has wounds, the description of the heal spells should be that the healing magic helps to heal, but it does not fully remove the need for the body to recover itself. In other words, shift the healing magic a bit towards lower fantasy instead of remaining in the high fantasy that ic does justify a lack of consequences to character wounds and death. Simmiliar how the amia custom setting decided to change the nature of greater sanctuary.

1. Greater Restoration

Quote:

Original:
Greater restoration removes most temporary and all permanent negative effects from the target character, including level drain. It does not remove negative mental effects or the effects of reduced movement speed. It also heals the target creature to full hit points.

Quote:

Altered:
Greater restoration removes most temporary and up to three negative effects from the target character, including level drain. It does not remove negative mental effects or the effects of reduced movement speed. It also heals the target creature to 90% of hit points and heals one light wound.

2. PvM Wound Table (Light Wounds)

If a character dies in PvM a roll is made on the light wound table. A light wound token is placed in the inventory and upon rest it checks the wound infliction date. If the wound infliction date is more than a week ago the token is removed. If a greater restoration is cast, the token is also removed. No light wound token is given if the character is raised with ressurection. If an already inflicted wound is rolled, the time will simply be refreshed.

1-20 No Wound
21 - 35 Head Trauma (- 1 intelligence, - 1 wisdom, - 5 concentration)
36 - 50 Broken Arm (- 1 strength, - 1 dexterity, - 1 attack bonus)
51 - 65 Broken Leg (-1 dexterity, - 1 constitution, - 1 armor class, -10% to movement speed)
66 - 80 Broken Rip (-1 constitution, - 5 discipline)
81 -95 Broken Jaw (-1 charisma)
95 - 100 Critical Wound

3. PvP Wound Table (Critical Wounds)

If a character dies in pvp a roll is made on the critical wound table. A critical wound token is placed in the inventory and upon rest it checks the wound infliction date. If the wound infliction date is more than two weeks ago the token is removed. If an already inflicted wound is rolled, the time will simply be refreshed.

1 - 25 Light Wound
26 - 40 Severe Head Trauma (-2 intelligence, -2wisdom, -5concentration)
41 - 55 Shattered Arm (-2strength, -2dexterity, -2attack bonus)
56 - 70 Shattered Leg (-2dexterity, -2consitution, -2armor class, -25% to movement speed)
71 - 85 Shattered Rip (-2constitution, -5 discipline)
86 - 100 Shattered Jaw (-2charisma)

4. Severely Wounded

Upon rest the current wound tokens are checked. If three or more critical wounds are inflicted upon the character, the character is severely wounded. The tokens will be traded for a severe wound token with the penalities of -3 to attributes, -5 to skills, -5 to saves, -50% to movement speed. Upon rest it checks the wound infliction date. If the wound infliction date is more than three weeks ago the token is removed. If a new wound is inflicted, the severe wounded token refreshes for another 3 weeks.

I think attribute penalties after death won't really work since players can log to the other server to make them go away (at least that's what was said a few posts up). Too bad we can't have everything on one server.

The penalties are on a token. That token stays in the inventory until a rest is made where the date of the token creation is greater than the time necessary to remove it. That way it can not be avoided or removed by switching servers.

I was about to suggest toning down the amount of time from 3 week to 1 week until something occurred to me. A hampering of that degree for that amount of time does seem to me to provide an incentive to exercise some caution before throwing yourself into battle.

However, this system steals the victor's ability to "remove the head from the body, burn it and scatter the ashes over the ocean", a kind of freedom provided by our current system of "whatever the victor in PvP says happens, happens." Do we see no method to maintain that liberty?

Well, I think the victors ability to remove the head or do unspeakable gruesome things like dressing him up in a pink frilly skirt remain possible outside of the system simply through rp. I do not think that system prevents that, just not give the mechanical possibility for it. I mean the person can have a broken arm through the roll on the table, yet you can still remove the head (even if he gets no penalties for that).

As in, the penalty applies "upon being raised from the dead".

Does your plan also intend for there to be a reduction in the availability of Greater Restoration/Raise Dead?

Yossarin wrote:

As in, the penalty applies "upon being raised from the dead".

Does your plan also intend for there to be a reduction in the availability of Greater Restoration/Raise Dead?

I was going to ask that question myself. I read through your plan and it seemed like it was not addressed there, Phear, but I might have overlooked it?

If these consequences can all be fixed by the attendance of a healer and paying for a spell like you can in most major cities, then there is still not much to worry about. Though the added mal-effects sound like some cool RP indicators.

With the current situation that you can not always find hunting parties too easily, especially in certain time zones, I did not want to make it too difficult. The healing revision as I imagined it would not change the availability of the current scrolls and spells. This means hunting parties do not require a cleric, as you can still raise people as before. However, there are small risks. The first is that without greater restoration, lesser wounds can not be removed until you head to town. The second risk is the 5% chance you roll a critical wound, which a greater restoration can not remove. The only way to avoid that is to have a cleric with you that casts ressurection, and hence avoids a roll being made on the pvm table.

PvP is different. Ressurection does not avoid a roll being made on the critical wound table. That means if you lose, and if you are not as lucky as to roll a 1-25 that would give you a lesser wound that can be removed through greater restoration, you are stuck with penalties. They are not very severe, but they do have a slight effect. They also mean that you need to be careful in the next two weeks of not getting another two critical wounds, as then you do have a significant penalty - the severe wound. Repetitive pvp hence is discouraged, regardless of how easily raise dead scrolls can be purchased.

Greater Restoration: Removes Light Wounds, not critical or severe wounds.
Ressurection: Avoids a roll being made after death on the pvm table, not pvp.

However, if it is prefered to encourage being careful during hunts you can easily do that by making the chance of a critical wound on the lesser wound table larger. For instance 10% or even 25% instead of current suggested 5%. I also toyed with the idea that a respawn (if you die on a hunt) makes you roll on the critical wound table, hence soloing is far more dangerous than if you are in a group with raise dead scrolls. Hence repeated respawning will give you a severe wound very quickly. Respawn causing critical wounds will also mean that there are penalties if the whole party dies, and hence adds an extra danger to groups.

And of course you can add that 3 lesser wounds would give you one critical wound, just like how 3 critical wounds equal one severe wound.

I like the talk and ideas XD. What I failed to remember though is, that some people dont have 4+ hours a day to play. Selfish of me to not recall when I had a heavy job working long hours. I imagine when you finally get home perhaps all you want to do is get a level. Or maybe a little rp. Then to think you only have 6hrs till you have to get up and go to work.

This topic is starting to frighten me and not in the sense of anxiety upon the realization of my own mortality.

lioncub wrote:

This topic is starting to frighten me and not in the sense of anxiety upon the realization of my own mortality.

Don't worry, honestly it won't be made unbearable for people to play with. The DM Team wouldn't do that to us haha.

Personally, I'm feeling rather leery about the corpse-drop system.

First: Think of how fun it is for the 'dead' character, stuck in the fugue plane for an indefinite amount of time with literally nothing to do. No interaction with their killers, companions, or literally anything for how long? Could be minutes, could be hours? How would having a character stuck dead for four hours plus and doing nothing be any kind of fun at all? Even when the server crashed I had to just go back to do absolutely nothing, watch absolutely nothing, just pass time while I watch or don't watch everyone else having fun. Seriously? At that point it's just a waste of time. No interaction, just wait for something that may or may not happen. Situations like that are just incentive to quit and do something else. I don't think it's fair or reasonable to expect players to wait and do nothing for extended periods of time like that. Give them -something- to do at least. Oh, and if corpses become objects that means they can be bashed and if that happens... you're permadead. Unless you respawn. But if you can just respawn inexplicably, then it's just the same as the old system with less interaction.

On persistent injuries with large RL times, well, okay, I can understand a 24 hour penalty, but three weeks long? That's rather excessive. Maybe it was relevant PvP with good RP explanations, or maybe it was someone going on a killing spree after two phrases. Or maybe it was stepping on a lot of epic traps that were inexplicably placed on a road for no apparent reason. With a system like that, you really can't be sure. Also you can have a killer constantly revive and then re-injure a target over and over again, essentially making them completely worthless (since no healing magic can restore the injuries) for almost a month.

I'm not trying to completely shoot down the idea, but it's important to keep the victim in mind for death changes. If you're going to force them to be stuck without any interaction for an extended period of time then it's probably not a good idea.

A - They could press Respawn and suffer the consequences.
Or B - Or wait it out, like people do already?

The corpse system would just port you elsewhere so you don't see what's going on with your corpse.. Because you're dead - and you would not know anyway.

Edit - If you want something to do whilst in the fugue, Add some ghosts/Celestials or devils or what not with some extended lore 'About' the fugue, why you're here and what's going to happen.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Edit 2 - Death penalities for weeks? FUCK NO. I play here to have fun.

Very_Svensk wrote:

When a government wish to change their nation, they draw up laws for people to follow - They don't ask them to be nice and obey. They force them.

You make me a sad panda, Svensk.

-2strength, -2dexterity, -2attack bonus for two weeks because you lost in pvp does not seem extreme to me. You can still roleplay, hunt, you can still be part of plots, but you are wounded and recovering. If you join in pvp your character does so even more valiantly, because he takes an even greater risk and even if he is not in top form, does his best to help. Worst thing that happens is your character becomes severely wounded and is weak for doing the right (or wrong) thing, but that still does not bar you from anything.

Amia... what happens next? (cleaned)

Who is online