AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I was a little surprised today to get someone telling me that there was a 'rumour' floating around about my character's alignment. Considering I know exactly how the character has behaved and the alignment spectrum that behaviour falls into, the only possibility for the info is an OOC leak.

The psychology of each of my characters is well-developed, and I do not appreciate their actual alignment getting bandied around for some half-wit to go "YOU AER <insert alignment here>! I SENSE IT! DIE!!!!!11!!!". If I tell anyone my character's actual alignment it is because I trust you not to meta that information.

Please consider carefully what OOC info you share about other people- alignment, build info, and alternate GameSpy IDs tend to be information told in confidentiality and aren't meant to be shared with your extended circle of friends. I know I as well as many others would be appreciative if we could be asked before you assume it's acceptable to bandy such information about.

Thanks.

By the way, the rumour's not accurate anymore. I won't be telling anyone the present alignment now.

That's a bit annoying. But sadly, also the reason I don't use the public request forum.

Sorry this happened to you. But let it be a lesson to all that you should make a practice of keeping mechanical details of your characters a secret from everyone, including your buddies. Your alignment, for example, is like your genitals. How would you feel if your friend asked to see it just to know you better?

(For me, it depends on the friend, but...)

Yossarin wrote:

Sorry this happened to you. But let it be a lesson to all that you should make a practice of keeping mechanical details of your characters a secret from everyone, including your buddies. Your alignment, for example, is like your genitals. How would you feel if your friend asked to see it just to know you better?

(For me, it depends on the friend, but...)

For me it's a matter of winning the bar bet.

But yes, good lesson to learn.

Go Chaotic Neutral, then no one cares.

It is unfortunate that it happened to you. In all cases where I've had a character whose alignment needed to be hidden, I've kept it so on an OOC level as well. Or, if I didn't, it never doubled back on me. But in the same token, I don't think that it's only the player's responsibility. There will always be information learned OOCly, and all it takes is a little empathy and consideration for the work that a person puts into a character to not spill important information in an OOC manner.

Mr. Hackums wrote:

Go Chaotic Neutral, then no one cares.

It is unfortunate that it happened to you. In all cases where I've had a character whose alignment needed to be hidden, I've kept it so on an OOC level as well. Or, if I didn't, it never doubled back on me. But in the same token, I don't think that it's only the player's responsibility. There will always be information learned OOCly, and all it takes is a little empathy and consideration for the work that a person puts into a character to not spill important information in an OOC manner.

Neutrality used to work.

The best way to keep your alignment secret is to stay away from public forums.

Everything I ever wanted to say and was related to my alignment, even hints, were done via. PMs. No character stories (never was a fan anyway), no description, no nothing. Play the game, everything that happens in game happens, and rule number one is WYSIWYG (at least number one rule for me).

EDIT: The fact you have to post your class and alignment during rebuilds or various requests is unfortunate. I believe such thing should be handled more discreetely, for example, on DM's private section. Otherwise it is a metagaming paradise. Especially example like Eurgiga's do hurt a lot and take any joy and will to play from the player.

Not just to be contrary, but because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt...

Are you certain that the only possible way for your alignment to have become known was by an OOC leak? Amia is full of spies and stealthers; is it possible that someone eavesdropped on a damning conversation without you knowing it? (I mention this in mind of a situation in which it was intimated to me that I had done something similarly inappropriate OOC, when in truth the info my stealther character had disseminated was learned entirely legitimately.)

It's clear that even if the info was gained legitimately IC but disseminated OOC via /tells and such, then that's still a kind of jackass move. I'm just saying, it would be kind of regrettable if you started distrusting your friends OOC because of what might not have started out as an OOC issue.

You can't know someones specific alignment IC, and then legitimately spread that information IC. The actual alignment categorization is OOC.

Right, but that's not what I'm describing, really. I'm envisioning something like an evil character who masquerades herself as a paragon of good (or vice versa), having a candid clandestine IC conversation with an IC ally which is overheard by someone unintended. That eavesdropper now has legit reason to spread an IC rumor about the faker. Which might then get picked up and spread OOC by people who had no direct link to the original conversation. It's all legitimately IC until someone who learned the info secondhand (third-hand, fifth-hand, twentieth-hand, whatever) breaks out into OOC. And then feelings get hurt and IC effort is wasted.

O'Raghailligh wrote:

You can't know someones specific alignment IC, and then legitimately spread that information IC. The actual alignment categorization is OOC.

I disagree. If I watch a Chaotic Evil character get successfully hit with a Smite Evil, and later by an Axiomatic Strike, when both of those attacks function solely on a creature's cosmic alignment to the planes, then that is IC information. There are planes of good and evil, law and chaos. It is an IC part of the universe our characters are in.

My general rule of thumb is this: Don't ask, don't tell. If you've a request that lists allignment PM it. That way you've only got yourself to blame if it leaks as DMs are very discreet when it comes to this kind of thing.

LetumLux wrote:

I disagree. If I watch a Chaotic Evil character get successfully hit with a Smite Evil, and later by an Axiomatic Strike, when both of those attacks function solely on a creature's cosmic alignment to the planes, then that is IC information. There are planes of good and evil, law and chaos. It is an IC part of the universe our characters are in.

That is an extreme example that can not be applied to the other alignment categories. And to then even go around IC saying that character is Chaotic Evil is a bit of a stretch.

Theres no such thing as a stretch when it comes to IC. My rogue could walk up to a paladin and call him one evil sunnova bitch, and then rush around telling everyone he killed an old lady!

That's not the same as watching a Chaotic Evil character get successfully hit with a Smite Evil, and later by an Axiomatic Strike, and then telling everyone IC that said character is Chaotic Evil, is it?

O'Raghailligh wrote:

That is an extreme example that can not be applied to the other alignment categories. And to then even go around IC saying that character is Chaotic Evil is a bit of a stretch.

A good aligned person struck with an unholy weapon, or Smite Good.
Anyone except a Neutral person could be flushed out by use of spells that utilize alignment as a condition. (And then even they could, by process of elimination, possibly.)
Someone without enough Use Magic Device being unable to wield a powerful object of opposing Alignment.
There are plenty of ways, I was using that one as an example that has pretty much no other conditions, since you can't UMD your way out of being Smote, for instance.

I think that saying, "This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore" is a little tacky, but it's ultimately the same thing as saying, "he dedicates his life to malign pursuits and is dedicated to an anarchic paradigm."

The spells Protection from (Evil/Good/Chaos/Law) are actually called that ICly. Why would it then be not IC to refer to someone by these Alignments that are known and quantifiable ICly?

Point taken.

Which is why it makes me grimace when stuff gets spread OOCly to be used as if it were discovered ICly: we're provided with a wealth of ways to ICly figure out (or obscure) information, or even just ICly lie about stuff for the same effect.

LetumLux wrote:

"This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore"

I wish people would say that.

I called Darthion a 'really nice guy' once. The fact that he was completely immune to any sort of sarcasm clearly marks him as Lawful Evil... naturally.

Or, one can go to the Electric Castle like everyone else who likes to spam about someones alignment. What doesn't kill you will OOC haunt you for the rest of your characters life. On the flip side, it will clearly show you which players never to have anything to do with ever again.

I like to figure these things out on my own, but there are so many ways to be OOC'ly outed that it's really hard not to find out eventually anyway. It's the primary reason I rarely make any sort of request on the forums, it's a free look into what could otherwise be learned IC. Live and learn I guess, stay alert, keep a dagger handy, and trust no one.

Bravo21 wrote:

Or, one can go to the Electric Castle like everyone else who likes to spam about someones alignment. What doesn't kill you will OOC haunt you for the rest of your characters life. On the flip side, it will clearly show you which players never to have anything to do with ever again.

Some of my characters conveniently find a way to go last.

Of course, my Lolthite didn't give a flying hoot and just strolled down the evil one like 'haters gonna hate'.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

"This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore"

I wish people would say that.

This has been said about Ulrik more than once.

Nivo wrote:

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

"This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore"

I wish people would say that.

This has been said about Ulrik more than once.

Under a Zone of Truth.

I'm sorry to hear that. I sympathize completely having had this happen. Which brought severe consequences to my favorite character.

So here's the other annoying part, if players know OOCly then get ready for the next few weeks of attempting to "out" you ICly in various ways.

My drow got taken to the Electric Castle and put through the evil portal. When the character died...welp. Confirmation! Unfortunately it was when CN was not accepted with the players even though the deity accepted CN. It lead to hours of OMG!! Then weeks of really hard RP, but I stuck with it and the players gave me some great RP. Mostly.

My learning from this was not to invest /all/ my time and energy into one character. AND be ready for someone to figure out all my characters nasty secrets. Contingency plans are a beautiful thing.

Haha, the throwing suspected evil people through the evil portal at the eletric castle is awesome. It is like an old fashioned witch trial. If the witch lives, she is guilty. If she dies, she is innocent.

Not to mention you can run away, seeing the good folks can not follow you through it. >.>

Nivo wrote:

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

"This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore"

I wish people would say that.

This has been said about Ulrik more than once.

Especially the whore part.

TIL Nev's alignment is evil because she knows all about chaotic evil whores.

I'm having similar problems myself; Not that I've been outed, just that I've started a story for my character here on the forums, and as it begins to get into the meat of the matter... I feel less and less open to posting it. It's like OOC, I want people to know what I'm up to, because i've got big plans well beyond race and allignment. But IC, it's really best no one knows anything that might alter their perception of her.

People often say it's hard to be evil, but honestly I think it's just hard to keep secrets-- Good guys have secrets and plans, too, much to the dismay of their rivals.

Living life out in the open is so much more invigorating!!! Such is why I never hid Lilith's bone arm, RP'd her rotting wings (including using the flesh as a tasty snack), and of course her unyielding faith to Falazure and all things decayed.
And now Gein...I outted him in private letters for all to see! As well as I can't hide the creepiness he exudes (BG aura aside).

My take on it is to play the game...even if I am meta'd I don't care...it is my escape from reality, not my life.
However, there is also the screenie/report route to consider should the meta truly affect RP and setting.

Just my $2 (inflation sucks)

**edited for spelling

For the record, you can privately pm a request, or privately pm us your alignment/class work out if doing a public request.

Burningoutbright wrote:

Nivo wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

"This guy is chaotic and evil and a whore"

This has been said about Ulrik more than once.

Especially the whore part.

He said he loved me

TaliaZalinNalla wrote:

He said he loved me

Oh, honey. He says that to everyone. *patpat*

Except me

I shed no sympathy for three reasons:

1) Secretly, every player behind their character is thinking "if push comes to shove, what's the best way to defeat this guy."

2) Humans are curious creatures; the more you dodge the question, the more people speculate. The more people speculate, the more people gossip/talk. Eventually, this leads to reason 3 which is

3) Someone will get it right eventually, whether they truly realise it or not. It's just a matter of time.

Galenson wrote:

I shed no sympathy for three reasons:

1) Secretly, every player behind their character is thinking "if push comes to shove, what's the best way to defeat this guy."

2) Humans are curious creatures; the more you dodge the question, the more people speculate. The more people speculate, the more people gossip/talk. Eventually, this leads to reason 3 which is

3) Someone will get it right eventually, whether they truly realise it or not. It's just a matter of time.

If you were right, it would mean we need no alignment at all. Fortunately, you are wrong.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

For the record, you can privately pm a request, or privately pm us your alignment/class work out if doing a public request.

This is good to know.

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