AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Alt-itis

Since it seems that the playerbase is opening its ears and engaging in more open dialogue and less tearing out of each others' throats, perhaps now is a good time for me to share something that I've known about since before ever coming to Amia. To start off, let me say that this is not a thread that tells you the right way to roleplay. The right way to roleplay is a way that is fun for you and does minimal harm to others, and that leaves a correctly broad definition. I am not saying that anything is going to be forced or changed, but simply providing you with what I consider obvious food for thought (it isn't so obvious to everyone).

A lot of players refer to alt-itis. Where you play a ton of alternate characters. You have your evil neck romancer, your chaotic neutral fuck this shit character, your goody two shoes pladadin, your numerous clerics of easily overlooked deities (or just easily overlooked clerics), that dwarf barbarian you made the night you were drunk, the wizard you made because Ulrik inspired you, the wizard you made because you wanted to design a spell and never got around to it, the wizard you made because you wanted to see how well playing an illusionist worked (it didn't), the sorceror you use for getting into romantic entanglements because it has a high charisma and that is necessary for anyone finding you attractive, maybe a bard in there somewhere, or a fighter because you just felt bad for the class.

Some of you try on these ideas and then pass on them like ill-fitting dresses, relegating them to the bargain rack (and inevitably beg us later to clean them out of your account). Some of you keep them around for rainy days, or windy days, or sunny days, or shitty days, or days where you only have forty minutes to play, or days where you just feel like grinding, and you bring out each one for just such an occasion.

Some of these very same players afflicted with alt-itis also complain, agree with, or otherwise acknowledge a reality about our server: that sometimes it seems like the same characters wind up in the same DM events, or wind up having so much influence in groups and factions that beginning characters (often played by beginning players!) can't break into the spotlight, or at the very least, can't get the kind of foothold they want to for their own roleplaying. Attempting to say that this is all in their heads or that such a thing doesn't happen is disingenuous. It does happen. I think anyone who says it doesn't happen is blind. But since it does happen, it is important to look at the actual reason why it happens.

In my experience as a DM, both here and elsewhere, the most successful characters are the ones a player puts the most attention into. You folks with alt-itis call them your "mains". You put in hours and hours and days and days and weeks and weeks and months and months and even years playing that one character, over and over again, getting into new situations, different situations, tweaking the personality a little here and there as necessary, treating it like a real, living human being. Nivo does this with Ulrik, BoB does this with Neveah, gorgometh does this Avadon, Grymia does this with Tuomas (currently, though he has consistently done this with other PCs in the past), Charles1810 does this with Belalad, Bobo did this with Lyle and now with Andrew, Jes does it with Zelly, Phearnun does it with Robert, and I did with Yossarin when I was a player; if you look at this very brief list, you will notice that some of these people are the very people who get complained about, though never mentioned by name, as the "Amian all-stars" who seem to be so omnipresent. And that is not even the complete list of people, it is just the ones I could come up with off the top of my head (and that very fact right there shows you how prevalent what I'm getting at is: that these are the only individuals that register in my immediate memory. Remember that.)

My apologies to all of those players for dragging you into this example.

Now, these players do have alts. Some of them have more than others. But by and large, they dedicate copious amounts of time to their mains, often to the detriment of the success of their alts or at times the complete exclusion thereof.

When you dedicate a lot of time and energy into one character, you have the freedom to "network" as it were. Do not even get into the argument of "but my character is not very social and thus it is hard to get there!" I have played non-social and even anti-social characters in the past, but I, as a player, always manage to manufacture reasons why I have to interact with others. I don't wait for the "have to" to come to me, I invent the have to myself, because otherwise, what's the fucking point of playing the character?

What does this conscious or subconscious networking do? It makes your name known. It makes people talk about you. It puts you into the collective consciousness of the playerbase. It means you suddenly start to become a focus of minor attention, and potentially major attention. It often has the side effect of bringing more roleplay (the above players can attest that it is often more roleplay than you can ever handle alone!) to you and thus more opportunities to develop your character into something lasting and fun to play. It all feeds and boils like a hurricane.

This can get stressful. You can feel like that character has to be everything to everybody. But when it reaches that fever pitch, it is the glorious opportunity to dramatically display your flaws, weaknesses, your humanity, by proving that while you aren't a one-trick pony, you're far from a winged pegasus that glides on the wind with a penis the size and color of a rainbow.

My point? Players with alt-itis, you are always going to have a hard time transforming any single one of your characters into a lasting, interesting, well-developed characters that can be plugged into the "networking" model unless you struggle against your desire to create alternates and stick with a character, through thick and through thin, through good and through bad, sickness health, even XP-taking, fortune-raping death. Sure, you have what you believe to be good reasons for creating alts, and I have no need to list them here. You are justified in doing so. After all, it is your time and your entertainment.

However, you cannot have your cake and eat it, too.

As a DM, it is my responsibility to create situations and opportunities for roleplay that will extend beyond my own influence, beyond my own time on the server. My style utilizes PCs as much as I can in favor of NPCs (it doesn't seem that way at times, sure, but this thread is my way of trying to point out that I don't have as much to work with as I would like!) In order to utilize PCs, I have to know that the players are going to stick to those PCs and carry on something for a long time and with lasting power. In putting Nev into a position of roleplaying with criminal PCs in Cordor, I need to know that she is going to stick to that character and is going to play with such a level of intensity that the players playing criminal PCs are going to get great interaction and great roleplay. I need to know that that the player I give a large task to on behalf of the city is going to play that character who has been given the task consistently, and not bog down the amount of time it takes to accomplish that task because that player only plays that character every other week, or "whenever she feels like it". I need to know that the players I select for something are going to be able to carry out that energy as far as it needs to go, and sadly, players with alt-itis have consistently disappointed me in this department.

You may say, "Oh, I have a lot of alts, but if I am given just ONE distinguishing thing to do with ONE of those characters, I will play that character religiously!"

I've tried that. It doesn't happen, and those of you with serious cases of alt-itis can probably do a self-assessment and come to that conclusion. Your attention spans wander when you don't get the immediate gratification you want, as in, the player you want to play with isn't on, the characters you want to play with aren't on, so you just play a different character instead of the one you "need" to be playing (need in quotations because it isn't real life need.)

And if your alts are arranged that way as pointed out in the paragraph above (I play this alt when these people are online, and this alt when those people are online, and this other alt when those people are online), you are limiting yourselves terribly. You are placing your characters' lives at the mercy of other players' availability, instead of letting them roll outside of a comfort zone, beyond the guarantee of actual roleplay. You are forced to seek, to find new opportunities for roleplay with other people, new people, dangerous people!.

But this doesn't ever happen if you keep switching characters around. As a DM in my DM'ing, if you do this, I have no guarantees that I can tell a consistent story when the faces keep changing. And in your interactions with other players/characters, those players/character don't have your character "coming to mind" when they need to include you in on something related to a faction, related to another PCs interests, related to a DM Event, or whatever.

TL;DR: players with alt-itis divide their time between so many characters that no single character becomes memorable or reliable for the purposes of a good story or a promise of good, quality, lasting roleplay. Alt-itis, while it is something that may be fun for you, by and large shoots you in the foot if you want to "make your break" into the consistent roleplay engine or DM Events you see other players engaged in.

Now, you can argue that you've tried this approach. You've tried to curb your alt-itis and play one character and it didn't work. There's no need to post your sob story about how it didn't work here, because I'm not claiming this is fool proof. There are some other variable elements that determine the success of this whole model, everything from sheer chance and opportunity to timezones you play in to your own personal ability to think outside the box and be creative with your character(s).

And some players are successful, even though they play a good number of alts. This is owed primarily to a magical factor in the player him- or herself, I believe, qualities that not everyone has. Letum comes to mind here.

What I am claiming is that by and large alt-itis hurts more than it helps. What I am advocating is that players consider the subject in a way they haven't before, and perhaps this post has effectively spelled out why it is detrimental...and, just maybe, make an effort to curb the desire to play a ton of alts and instead leave the comfort zone or just doggedly stick exclusively with a given character for months and months to see if you can penetrate the "who the fuck are you?" barrier.

So, again, this is not me saying you have to stop playing alts or even should. It is only me saying that you should stop playing so many alts if you want to take a shot at the richer experience of "being involved" in the server's story.

I'd sticky this. It may prove quite helpful to many a newcommer AND old-timer.

Personally - 100% agree.

I dare say I do agree to this. I used to have a ton of characters. Well of course I still do, they are buzzing around in the archive and a few are still in my vault which I hope like every few months when I feel like it or the server is rather empty and I want to re-exprience leveling on Amia.

Anyhow... I used to play a lot of characters at the same time. Some of the players and DM longer around likely remember that. To a prime of hacing like 8 active charcters in 4 different factions.

The result was, I wasn't happy with any. I was involved ina gazillion small plots due to the factions, it became work to note down which character knows what and is involved in what and knows whom. I split the time I have and tried to dedeicate each character "approrpiate" time which just failed miserably and all I had was stress.

So I tried to discipline myself and forced myself to decide for 2 charas whom I keep, one as a main and one as a sub-main which I can play alternatively.

I must say, for myself, this worked out really great. I have a lot of fun with those two characters. They did develope a lot and into very different directions than expected with the Amian plots and the RP they were involved in. And I did realize, they only had the chance to develop in the first place because I did not split times but put the time I had into them and only them. (or mainly them, a few "hey I want to test the new lowbie areas and quests as a lowbie and I wanna see how the new classes turned out" aside) Because development just takes time. IRL as in Game.

From another perspective (and no I do not want to whine, I just want to share my experience and I admit, air a little frustration too) altitis is very very straining for factions.

I have one big plea for those of you who know they have a problem with their character hopping, please please do think twice or more before joining a faction. It is very frustrating if you have people join a faction only to see them twice and then never again or only on alts. Or worse... joining the same faction with a new character every month.

Of course it is something entirely different if you join a faction and you realize... hey thats not how I imagined it to be, that faction is no fun, I rather leave again. Thats perfectly normal and understandable. But if you know you tend to make characters and loose interest latest after 2 weeks... please wait those two weeks and see if you still like that character and then join a faction.

I cannot force anyone to do this of course and I won't turn anyone down who wants to join my faction and say "hey you only have that chara a week I won't let you in".

Ehrm... okay, I strayed here a bit. Anyways... everyone has a different liking for RP... some like a lot of charas to fit any situation, some like only one chara. I personally like two because sometimes I just feel like doing something entirely else. That and I just cannot ever fully decide between my 2 all time favourit classes.

Just saying... I suffered from big time altitis and tuning down worked out awsomely (for me).

Though I always find Yossarin's tone to be rather harsh, I agree with what's been said here. That said, I don't put myself in the group of people who complain that it's always the same people who get the spotlight, but rather, I envy those people for having the ability and the patience to make characters who in turn are able to have such a strong impact on the server's politics and storyline, as well as those who RP with them. And while I put plenty of work into fleshing out a character, I lack that same ability to make them "come to life", so kudos to those who were mentioned, as well as those that weren't but also do the same thing, for being able to breathe life into an idea in such a manner.

I'd consider this to be a must read for those, that like myself, end up falling into the trap of creating alts for whatever reason. Good things come, in the long run, to those who work for them. Usually.

I'm in the process of disciplining myself (stealing the term from Amarice's post!) and putting work into one character who I hope will turn out to be my sole (or main, as some call it) for a long time to come.

I personally felt that you were talking directly to me in that post, your words hit home for sure. I think I will be taking a large step backwards to consider a few things before attempting to make a "focused" return to Amia. I've always had the mindset that smaller interactions with new faces, oddities, problems, quirks, appearances brought more to the established playerbase to break-up their end-game status-quo. As I myself have never invested the time, or perhaps felt I have had the time to reach the "networking" position, I just figured I'd contribute to the overall existence on Amia with small "one-off" contributions.

I suppose I can see one reason why perhaps DM's might not invest as much time with characters they might believe to be simply "alts", I don't really blame them when time is limited and they have to evolve plot lines.

I guess all that is left now is to reassess the characters I have, the concepts I -want- to play and perhaps where I will be in -so many months- if I actually choose a concept I think will work and stick with it.

Thanks for bringing this up.

I would like to just do two things. First of all, I support everything that Yoss has said to varying degrees. Those degrees are either stronger, the same, or less staunch as Yoss' opinion, which of course is resultant upon my own experiences.

That said, my second point is that I would like to publicly acknowledge that I have alt-its to some degree. I have perhaps seven characters that I all play, for whatever reasons. Those reasons might be for the sake of testing builds or a drive to play a personality, but they are valid reasons in my eyes. Lucious, for example, is my go at a spellsword. Does that me that he has no personality or RP-ness? Not at all, I would never play a character that was bland and just goes through the motions. He is a secondary, and when I play him, or others, I put all my effort into the moments I play them.

After reading Yoss' post, I took a good, hard look at the characters that stand out immediately in my mind and I narrowed the list to three, with a close fourth. By far, Salema is my most interesting character in my eyes, and probably the most fun to play. Sorana, my Warden, is another, whom I cannot give up because of the time I have invested in her and the role she plays in Wiltun (read: I'm not saying I feel obligated to play her, just that I have the passion to do so). The final one is my yet unnamed evil character, because his schemes are too good to give up on.

That's three characters. Do I feel up to the task of committing myself to them? I most certainly do. Does that mean I will never play any other character? Of course not. The reason that I have not played on Salema lately is due to her being sequestered (read: that's not a complaint about Mosh, he was one of the few reasons I got on Amia for a few weeks) in Khem/Mulhorand. She is still stationed in Djedet, but now that they are not on the front lines she has the ability to move around more.

You might be wondering the point of all this (hell, I was not expecting to write this much), but it is to emphasize Yoss' point: Alt-itis will submerge you to the point that you cannot cope with all the characters. Part of the reason for some of my alts is that Salema was not doing anything. Another is that the low server population makes it tempting to try new things and immerse myself in new players, which is good. However, I can easily do the same thing with Salema. And this is what I shall be doing. It will take some Time Management (something I am not good at), but it will be done.

What I am saying to the rest of my alt-itis brothers and sisters is that the key is truly to find that One Thing that makes your favorite character stand out and go with it. I have so many plans for Salema, all it takes it refocusing my effort upon her, and also Sorana and Evil Guy, and those plans will come to fruition, both for the betterment of myself and other players.

As for my alts, well, they will still suit their purposes of garnering RP here and there as needed. I love all the characters I create. It's a hell of a ride.

I am insulted

I am dissapointed.

Obviously i have not divided enough attention into hashim to make him memorable... not enough time and effort to breach the "who the fuck are you" wall.

I have to agree with your points. Admittedly, I suffer this in a different form but at the least in the way I suffer it, I strive (mind, STRIVE) to still keep to a couple of core characters.

These days, when I play I play Tuomas, pretty much. He's probably one of my favoured and most interesting characters to play who's had a good deal of growth. I'm not saying he's the only one, but he's been one of the ones whom I think has been a challenge for me to play but at the same time, still is within my comfort zone.

This is probably the most spot on post I've seen on these forums in a looong time.

To add a player perspective of my experience with this:

As mentioned above by Yoss, I focus on one character quite strongly. It is not that I do not find other character concepts appealing. In my toolset I have a module called "Juliette in Fashion Land" in which I design cloth and armor for my characters, as well as sketch character ideas. There is a priest of Tymora, a priestess of Kossuth, waiting next to ones I shortly actually got in game like Juliette my bardic hin, Isabella my thief tiefling or Rondra my bearded dwarven lass. However, what interrests me is actually exploring the character, seeing them suffer and fail, and be happy and triumphant.

Robert has quite a journey behind him. He has worked with the EO, TKs, DG, WKs, Glade, ... and interacted with the Slavers, Banites, Cultists of Orcus and other less beloved groups. Through a lot of time he made a name for himself both for good and for worse, kept putting his foot into the door for plots and simply worked for his glory. He has friends and foes that respect him, and a lot of people that do not respect him for being a "falsely-humble self-adoring prick who wants to suppress peasants". Much of this is owed to the simple fact that when I noticed there was a situation that I thought would test out his limits or help me explore the character, I went for it. I want Robert to suffer, to lose hope, to fail, but not by simply deciding he should or by adding superfical drama. Only when I feel like I scratch that border almost consistendly does it make it really interresting when he does not.

If I had more characters, he would hardly be as interresting for me, and I would not have had the time to do all the rp and work that got him where he is now. He would likely not have had the chance to interact with characters who helped him develop and grow, and who helped make him become the character he is today. Characters like Arion, Avadon, Aylomen, Yaston and Willow would not have had the oppertunity to leave their profound inprint on him. That he can be involved in a lot of plots at a time is owed to the fact that he put in the work for it and gained the trust of those he works with, or simply is beneficial to have on board. Some people come to him when they need council, information or simply that he opens a door for them with his connections.

My take on Alt-Itis (from my own experiences)

Personally, I find that having two actives is my limit. I find that three is a bit too much for me to handle, two works best for me. I think that with more than that, the characters get spread way too thin.

Still, there's some things to keep in mind when handling a number of alts:

First: Minimize overlap. With alts, you want to cover different grounds, try to get as much as possible. What I mean, is if your main is a LG guardsman, your alt should likely not be a LG crusading paladin, way too much overlap there. However, if your alts are a LG Paladin and a CE murderous madman, those go well together. Similarly, a very serious LN guard and a wild wily CN rogue/bard would also go well together. You'll also want to make sure they have different zones of operation. For example, one underdarker and one topsider works well together. One person who sticks to cities and an alt which lives in the wilds works well together. If your two alts live in the same cities and are active in the same areas, you'll find that headaches result. It really isn't nice when you have to pick one of two alts for the same event.

Second: For any given plots or factions you're involved with, pick one character and STICK to it. Having two characters involved in the same plot can result in messiness. This might be unavoidable with the large, island wide plots, but you should really try and make sure that you don't have two characters involved in the same plot. I myself have done this, believe me, it often results in a headache. Same thing with factions. Don't have two characters in the same faction or even working with the same people consistently. Seriously. Just don't. Try to get in with different groups on your different characters.

Third: Shuffling characters, sometimes alts go in and others go out. This can be good, but try not to shuffle too often, try to keep two mains. Now shuffling can be good, if say, one character permadies with a bang. Just try to make it so that your new alt isn't just a clone of the dead one if this happens.

There's more to playing several alts than just this, but these are some things to keep in mind. Personally I'm comfy with just two. I find Kurchin and Saylgarix (Though I might shuffle him out sometime), works well for me.

Kobra said a lot of good things, and went into greater depth than I was able to succinctly explain in my post. It's more or less how I feel, and is the approach I used yo take, and which I will be taking from here on out.

Last edited by IronAngel on Thu, Aug 30 2012, 18:00 PM, edited 2 times in total.

I can subscribe to this. In my time on Amia, I think I've had a real investment in a character twice before. First was with Kir'nack, and I played him religiously. It made him one of the most important PCs in the Underdark, and one that people years later ask me to bring in game (but I generally refuse because his story is done, even if he's still potentially around). That was probably the PC that got me noticed for the DM job, too. When he gave up his position and then was finally assaulted and thrown out of his house weapons master position too, I let him rest and played a bunch of other PCs alongside DMing. Then I came up with Joon, and devoted quite a bit of time to him alone. I established a mini-faction in Khem, and while we didn't exactly have a lot of members he was known pretty widely. People came to him looking for information or alliance, and he was fairly close with the other factions on Khem. And now I'm playing him again and pretty quickly regaining that status, though through new plots and plans.

Everything else I've played has been fun, but never really went anywhere meaningful. Kalliniel is known simply by virtue of being almost 7 years old, but apart from the very beginning he's always been a side character for me to unwind with, and revel in that classic elven RP that is quite cool, but ultimately not captivating enough on the long run. In the early days I suppose he was my "main", but I was too new, inexperienced and undetermined to make a real impact. And more importantly, it's not that these characters are successful because they are my "mains" or good characters (though I do think Joon is in my top three characters made). They've had long periods of not going anywhere, too. It's only when I decide to play them to the exclusion of other PCs that they start to really flourish. It's about time and creative energy, but no doubt also the networking aspect Yoss brought up: you have to force yourself to be online and talk to people, even when your favorite buddies aren't around. If you log out or switch characters, you'll probably miss a lot of opportunities.

MagisterEquitum wrote:

Though I always find Yossarin's tone to be rather harsh, I agree with what's been said here.

Really? I always find his tone hilarious and entertaining. I grinned through most of this post.

I would have to say I agree with Yossarin, if you want to be involved you need to remain consistent with one, maybe two characters. As a player often accused of Alt-itis, I can't really deny it, though I feel I have legit reasons for them and about 90% are below 20 and were abandoned for any number of reasons; I didn't like their RP, I could not get absorbed in their RP, I disliked where they build was going, I messed up stats and started over again... there's plenty of excuses for them, but it's just that excuses, when it boils down to I made them because I was bored or got an idea I wanted to try.

I do have a few characters I play very regularly, one or two could even be called my main and sub-main, one is even fairly well known, and as much as I try to get interested in other factions or other RP throughout the server, I am always drawn back to Babette, I have played her on various servers for 5 years now and she's always pulled me back to her, and she still does, I might break from her for a short time, up to a few weeks, but I always return to her RP... and after 5 years I'm finally "getting it" there's a reason she draws me back, she's not just an "off the top of my head" character, I've spent 5 years developing her, fleshing her out, working out her history ... I just haven't spent as much time with her on Amia as I have in the past... call it temptation... experimenting with the various sub-races has been fun... but they don't really matter, I always go back to my simple human, pure cleric of Torm. So time to get back to my Lawful Good, though not Lawful Nice, Tormtar Cleric, I might step away to do a few different things; playing my sorceress that skirts around committing to any evil faction comes to mind, or my drow assassin, or even my Kelemvorite Cleric... but they only get played much when I am feeling over stressed with RP with Babette and I am not having fun playing her... cause lets face it, we all come here for fun and when RP stresses you out, you need to step away or do something different.

One other thing about her, with the exception of the Khem plot, every other one I've had the opportunity to get into has been with her, to the exclusion of all my other characters that might have reason as well to be involved.

I also have far, far more time on my hands to play than many do, pretty much all day every day, so the temptation grows greater when you're sitting alone in Kohlingen for IC reasons.

I like to start up new characters year to year, so as not to retread worn ground, but, challenge accepted. The other side of the coin, then, has to be that those who commit time to a single character, to a plot, should get to have their plots come to fruition. As someone who has committed pretty hard to a single character at a time, and a single plot attempt at a time, and had none of them get traction, I really understand why people get into alt's. After all, what's the incentive to stick with a single character if you don't see progress towards your goals? If you jump ship because you don't immediately get what you want, fair enough, that's on you. But if you try and try and try and never get any closer, really, what are we supposed to do?

So it's fair to ask players to commit to a character, as long as that character can grow and progress in a timely fashion.

Your post makes a lot of sense. While not a severe case, there was a time where I was switching around cheap, two-dimensional characters and concepts just to find 'the roleplay that'll work'. I'm glad to say I ceased doing this a while back, and I can attest that working on one character and sticking with him/her is really the best course to take. Upon making a Dwarf and sticking with it, I've been making a conscious attempt at interacting with others, and generating my own roleplay, and it's been paying off. He's been making so many connections and meeting so many people, I feel like he really is eking out a place in Amia, and it's really overwhelming, seeing the results.

And while a bit off-topic, that brings me to another point. I've been meeting people in-game who would tell me that they 'hate roleplaying at low levels', because, I guess, it could be that they can't satisfactorily fulfill their character concepts to a degree they feel dutiful and faithful to their vision of their character (though that may be me making a leap in logic). I am having trouble understanding why. Surely, you can't partake in grand events or battles that'll include many high level PC's and mobs, but is it really so bad? Maybe it's just because of my initial experiences, I remember being level two on my first day playing on Amia, and being whisked away on an epic DM event with other PC's that were way beyond my characters capability. I still enjoyed it.

Mayhaps I'm fairly optimistic, but it is almost baffling to me.

Yep. Awesome point Yoss. Something I've ....in hindsight....been doing for all the years of my DnD playing. I pretty much hate making other characters. I'd rather play just the one...or maybe two, and keep the RP consistent and alive for me, and those I interact with. This isn't to say that I don't have any other alts, I do, but I can still see a blank spot at the bottom of my character list. I play Derrin, almost exclusively, with only one other that I'd even consider playing with any sense of regularity, and that fits with Kobra's ideal of splitting the zone of opperation. Unwittingly I admit, one surfacer, one Underdarker.

Alt-itis is a pretty bad road block when it comes to the various story lines and plots we have for our characters. The need to wait for a certain player/character to log in causes a stagnation that can, and seems to have, lasted for a long time for some. But that too, if people can put their mind to it, is in line with Yoss' comment.

Yossarin wrote:

... struggle against your desire to create alternates and stick with a character, through thick and through thin, through good and through bad, sickness health, even XP-taking, fortune-raping death.

I know that I've spent ALOT of time just standing around, and an equal amount of time in mind spinning, time eating, sleepless RP. "The good and the bad...". Those times of seemingly endless boredom when nothing is happening need to be endured because you just never know when someone, or something will happen. Often this will be inspired by yet another of Yoss' point, when someone remembers your character because they see/hear about him or her all the time and KNOWS them by reputation or some past interaction that was so memorable they just never forgot. I've been subjected to this with my toon plenty of times.

The good and the bad, the thick and the thin....and so on...

Not..."Jeez, this is boring. I guess I'll just make another toon"

Thanks Yoss!!!!

About time A DM addressed this, I agree 100%. I would take it a step further though and say if one leads a faction/city etc.. then one should devote all the time to that character just to improve immersion of the city. I know this from past experience.

Sticky diss. I feel rather bad now since I'm terribly guilty. Try and play the one character, but then you feel that urge to create and play another one because the current isn't holding that "spice"; then afterwards you lose that feeling and go back to your normal character, forgetting entirely their objective and key to this server and end up making another.

From my player tools page:

Amelia Brinsel
Dreana Corsa
Ellen Raine
Isamura Hana Raine
Jacqueline Russell
Jana
Janfled Coretta
Julian R. Goodman
Julistana Raine
Lumita Omrell
Lynara Raine
Lyria Faine
Mariana Murseph
Marten Lavette
Reggi Marless
Rolyn Raine
Romana Rivay
Taelan Sirtae
Thelanee Gant
Varani
Velan Brinsel

Clearly I have a problem. There's only one dude on that list!

(Yes, Julian is a woman)

Joking aside, yes I did have a tendency to start characters and then jump back to Isamura (and later Romana) when they didn't work out like I hoped.

When I saw players who I'd had fun times with go and make alts to play, it really bothered me. I didn't have a lot of playing time back when this happened, or rather I sacrificed playing time to work on Amia. Looking back, I regret not making the time to keep trying with the one character that I'd finally settled on. When I did log on there weren't many characters around that interested me.

In a nutshell, I'll pick one character and stick with them if you will. Otherwise, we're just going to get into alt-envy and end up making two alphabets worth of alts to compensate.

The term 'Alt-itis' drives me crazy. I can only read it as 'Inflammation of the Alt'. That is all I have to "contribute".

I count I have in total created about 71 characters. Most of which did not reach level 4. I apparently suffer from this a lot, although I do dedicate a lot of my time to a select few characters, namely Mathan, and he does have a bit of a reputation, if not a great one, from what I know.

So glad I changed my GSID. :lol:

Only got 4 bits, one who I played ages before I came back to forums and 1 who I really love and 1 who gets the occasional attention... I really enjoy playing Tonks on Amia - A = Much more fun than my B-mia drowtoon... Sorry!

The reliance on alternate characters actually annoys me less than the casual treatment of the matter.

It's nice to have a character to play when you are getting nowhere with one character that you play a lot. But as with my example above, if you're not careful it can get to the point where you're rolling so many alts that it becomes almost second nature to switch like someone flicking channels on TV.

If there's anything I have learned in my time out it is that it takes a lot of time to flesh out a character into someone with believable motivations and reactions.

It's possible to have false starts in this process that are very easy to edit and fix later in a written story, which you can't exactly take back when playing on a server. In fact, years and years ago someone complained to me after some RP that they wished they could take it back because it had changed their character so much that they weren't any fun to play.

Alts aren't always well-developed. You might have a great concept and enthusiasm but the reality of playing them day after day just doesn't match up to what you've come to expect from playing one character constantly.

Communicate with other players. Don't spring some big character change or revelation on them. If you're feeling the urge to create yet another new character, tell them. Maybe you can explore the idea without rolling a new character. You won't know if you don't have the conversation.

LetumLux wrote:

The term 'Alt-itis' drives me crazy. I can only read it as 'Inflammation of the Alt'. That is all I have to "contribute".

Suggest a clever, catchy title and I will both change it and evetually sticky it.

Very_Svensk wrote:

I am insulted

I am dissapointed.

Obviously i have not divided enough attention into hashim to make him memorable... not enough time and effort to breach the "who the fuck are you" wall.

Do not be too disappointed. You may not have breached my wall due to differing timezones, but I do think your character Hashim is close (because I can recall details about the character) and probably just needs that special catalyst to get where you want him to be. Maybe if you finally get your chance at a dramatic and bloody and troubled vengeance...

And already tonight I went against what I just said. Old habits die hard.

The thing that screws you up most about playing multiple characters is knowing which characters played by other players they actually have interacted with and know things about.

Even when I have a clear idea of what my character does or does not know, I find that such foreknowledge discourages me from introducing myself on a new character because well, it's never going to be quite the same as that previous experience you had on that other character. In fact, screw it, it will never be anything like as good because that was one in a million and I feel like there will never be that sort of synchronicity ever again.

Bummed much, I am.

Yossarin wrote:

Suggest a clever, catchy title and I will both change it and evetually sticky it.

"One [Character] : The Loneliest Number"
"How To Fix Your Alt-ernator"
"Typecasting Your Way To Fame"
"Less is More: A Dissertation on Concentration"
"Alts: The Cuckoo's Stratagem and the Highlander Theory"

LetumLux wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Suggest a clever, catchy title and I will both change it and evetually sticky it.

"One [Character] : The Loneliest Number"
"How To Fix Your Alt-ernator"
"Typecasting Your Way To Fame"
"Less is More: A Dissertation on Concentration"
"Alts: The Cuckoo's Stratagem and the Highlander Theory"

Those are some good Alt-ernate names.. Hurhur.

Haha Letum!

My personal favorite: "Less is More: A dissertation on Concentration"

Basically, yeah, good post. And guilty as charged. If long-term, wide-arc roleplay is what you're after, as well as popularity, sticking around with one character will get you there. I find the threshold to "I know this guy" to be much lower than described, though. As someone with just fleeting interest in the grand schemes and a major focus on all the kinds of interaction you get playing many roles and many personalities - being the perpetual stranger, if you will - I still think small-scale RP is just as valid and interesting in its own way. It's the bread and butter, as opposed to the culinary effort of a three-course meal that you may treat yourself to occasionally. It sure is harder to catch if you're floating around looking for something to reward. And that means potentially wasting time. As such, it would be silly to expect it from DMs to a greater degree.

Quote:

An Alteration: A Call for Alt-Erasure

Silliness put aside. Thank you for making this informative post, Yossarin. I think it was..well.. much needed.

Good advice Yoss.

I've struggled with my attention span on pc's over the years. At times I've had as many as 5 going at one time, although in recent years I've kept it to 3. That's probably too many given my playing regimen. I know I've had some of the habits you've described and it's resulted in some of the problems you've described. Time to change.

Thanks.

For me, I loved diving into loads of alts. It was a challenge to approach the server from so many different styles, characters, concepts, etc; and I tended to have more fun being an auxiliary piece to other player's plots. This is something I always enjoyed more than being involved in the huge story. So, I won't likely change (And I recognize this post isn't trying to make me). This advice is extremely well-composed, thought provoking, and in my belief: spot on.

If you're looking to become involved, to make a difference, and to develop an integrated story with the server, Yoss's post is medicine.

I have to agree with Yoss. I have a lot of alts. But I don't play them nearly as much as I'd prefer to. My main character has standing where he currently does because I've played him a lot and dug in. He has roots and he does his job. He's always around and he's reliable.

This is sort of what DMs look for when they trust things to their PCs with things like high ranking positions in cities. They want people who are going to come back later and do more things after the plot line that got them into office is done.

If Yoss were to allow Johnny So-And-So into the council in Cordor and Johnny So-And-So never played that character a week later... well, that would kind of screw things in Cordor. The political process would back up and nothing would happen.

Take initiative and show interest. And most importantly... make sure you stick around. Logging off of your main once a week to hang out in whatever place you hang out in the main area of a city doesn't qualify as sticking around though. And neither would writing lots of forum posts if you just plain old never play that character.

That isn't to say that you can't play multiple characters, but you have to keep in mind that eventually you will have to delegate more time to one of your characters than the others. At most I'm likely going to play two characters actively. And whoever that alt is (probably my bard) will still have less time given to him than my Tarkuulian because I've invested so much time into him already.

But that's my two cents on it. I understand though that if we never level new character that new people will also not have anyone to play with. So I'm all in favor of making alts and leveling them. But I think it ends up needing to be understood that most of those characters won't go anywhere big. They're fun to play, sure. But they're not going to get module changes accomplished, or hold huge amounts of recognition most of the time. And certainly not in long-reaching plots that'd require them to come back.

On a related note: this is why I rarely level my characters to the cap. (Rarely as in, it happened once with Kir, and then I rebuilt to the lower 20s.) It's much better to keep playing a character I feel still has room for improvement. They can still get stronger and learn new things. And it's nice to have some reason to go out adventuring when you can't find any RP in cities. You could even make some new friends. I don't know about the rest of you, but stopping active leveling at 23-26 helps me stay interested in my PCs. Joon is still 4 AC, Improved Knockdown and an epic summon short of his maximum potential.

Just wanting to say very much agree with Yos on this subject and found Kurchin's (forgot forum name) post very nice advice.

I dont have Alt-itis, but I do suffer from alt-tabings disease and flashing gamers rash. or as I call it IC "Caraigh Coma"

I do understand why people spam alts, having played Cory Shadowflame as my only person for 5 or so years you notice the dead zones alot more when you cant swap to the active area for no reason on that person.

The1Kobra wrote:

-First: Minimize overlap.

-Second: For any given plots or factions you're involved with, pick one character and STICK to it.

-Third: Shuffling characters, sometimes alts go in and others go out.

God I will never be annoyed with Kurchin's speech problem again. You very perfectly articulated how I feel about alts.

I'll keep this short, great post. Much thought... hmmm

I want to say something from the other side of the wall.

MY alt-itis stems from that desperate drive to belong. It's a drive I've only recently overcome. I keep creating chars to try to fit in, but the whole time the issue was ME. -I- wasn't getting the recognition I wanted, so I'd make someone new.

Since marrying my husband, my attitude has changed, and I'm not striving for the recognition others have seemingly got without effort (I know that's not actually so, it's just how it seems). Real Life is, for the first time, the place I prefer to be, and has given me a new insight.

I'm not saying everyone does this, but it's entirely possible that it's a reason they do.

P Three wrote:

MY alt-itis stems from that desperate drive to belong. It's a drive I've only recently overcome. I keep creating chars to try to fit in, but the whole time the issue was ME. -I- wasn't getting the recognition I wanted, so I'd make someone new.

This used to be me :lol:

Everyone has a main. The justification to why there are "amia stars" is not "ok" . It reminds me of school in a way. You start out in 1st grade with the class of 2000 and stick with that class till graduation. It becomes like a family and everyone knows everyone. But what about that student who came in mid-way or the student who comes near the end? These "additions" to the class have the same gifts to bring to the table but is over looked most the time just because "they havent been around as long" or "is not part of the original class" . If that confused you sorry XD. What I am saying is "I challenge the DM's and the amia star players" to break your own "comfort" of RP groups that are the "originals" and give fair attempt and attention to these "other players". Its no longer fun to people in RL when their character is completely ignored as if they had been muted and invisible. Ive seen this before over the years ive played on amia. I personally have never been hungry enough to be part of the "amia stars", Im satisfied with the small RP (the bread and butter) have you, with some fireworks once in a while. But sadly I know a large number of people who quit amia and not stick through it. As Yoss said its not a full proof solution if you stop alt-itis and play a main 90% more. Your main you have played for years constantly may never be noticed. Yoss did a good job explaining how there is a famous group and "dependable". How Dm's do not want to waist time or effort. The only thing I see worth "justification" for this, is the Time zone. I stayed up till 5:25am and had lots of RP.. it was extreme and fun

I would have never found that if I didnt stay up that late that day.

Wall of text...

Make some spaces!

555444333 wrote:

P Three wrote:

MY alt-itis stems from that desperate drive to belong. It's a drive I've only recently overcome. I keep creating chars to try to fit in, but the whole time the issue was ME. -I- wasn't getting the recognition I wanted, so I'd make someone new.

This used to be me :lol:

And me.

corypx wrote:

alt-tabings disease

lol

I know I have early onset Alt-zheimers, but I think it primarily stems from soloing so much and being tired of looking at a particular ass so often. Now that I actually have a main tied into a plot and know that feel, bro, it should get better.

Quote:

What I am saying is "I challenge the DM's and the amia star players" to break your own "comfort" of RP groups that are the "originals" and give fair attempt and attention to these "other players

But they do. Most often those characters don't follow up or do anything, or those characters are replaced by alts. That is the problem, the root of the issue. If plot threads get dropped in your lap but you don't do anything with them or follow up, what ends up happening is: Nothing. Worse, often time the players hand off the plot threads to the characters they hate because they are 'popular' ,then complain because the popular players are involved. Well, of course they are, you went to them.

It's not about not wasting time and effort, because it still gets put in. The characters thta kep showing up do so because of avariety of circumstances, and a big one is the fact that they're always around and getting their finger sinto pies. And if that sounds a little like a catch 22, it's because it is.

Is your character being ignored? Stop letting them ignore you. I had a character that got ignored once. His name was Torin Starfall circa early 2006. Then I yelled loud enough ICly because... well that's Torin but anyways, for a character named Horace Greywolf to come over and ask him for a chat, and then I had no idea for the ride I was in for.

That's all it takes. If your character is super antisocial, do it another way. Or realize that a super antisocial character probably doesn't want the spotlight.... even if you do. There is nothing wrong with the role of supporting actor. I did that with Reinard and with Nathan.

To put my point in a separate post: When you DM pen and paper tabletop, if your characters are leaving or die almost every session, you can rarely weave a coherent dramatic story because you have arevolving door of characters. Explode that out fifty times, and you see what an impact alt-itis can have on a world with doxzens of DMs and many many more players. The players who "show up to the session" and play their once character frequently will end up seeing more and doing more, partly because the DM can be assured of their presence and knows their character well enough to hook them with things, and partly because they have the motivation to make things happen, or doo something with the info/plot hooks/etc.

understood about dependability. Also, pen and paper DnD... been there lol . pen and paper DnD is a small group of 10 at most as it would die out quickly like a candle flame (also if the people are high and retarded). This server is a BONFIRE XD. I just hope people dont get their hopes up thinking if they stay on their "main" more for a 5 year term that they will be involved in these Grand spot lights. There will always be the cream of the crop. So learn to roll with it or take a break and come back. Since moving to the UK im on a different Time zone and a little more is happening

I've got a lot of thoughts on this, but to avoid blabbering, I'm just going to say I agree with Yoss wholeheartedly and encourage everyone to closely consider his reasoning and know that he posted that genuine appeal so that the server could flourish. To keep it short:

I've been playing Avadon, almost exclusively, for close to four years now (Jesus Christ I need to quit) and I get left out of a ton of plots and events. There is no gurantee that you can play for a long time and find yourself involved in everything. It's literally impossible in my eyes. Character restrictions, factions, pasts, everything comes into play. I think it boils down to simply focusing on something and hoping that something small becomes something grand. I'm still trying and I've been around for a while.

There is no singular formula to success or becoming popular with one character. Just play to the best of your ability and hope you get noticed. I've gotten lucky a few times with some efforts. I got involved with some great players, got outcast by a few for IC actions and consequences, earned a reputation (earned or unearned, who can truly know!?) and because of just focusing my efforts on trying to build a character, a story and some realistic development for him, I was lucky enough to have some great role play and interactions with some great people and still do!

I believe that I am the absolute and ultimate n00b at everything mechanically. But I'm not here for mechanics, I'm here because I love stories. I love plot and develoment and that's kept me here playing Amia with my main because I've seen him grow and flourish and then crash and burn on so many occaissions. Highs and lows, successes and failures that have ultimately shaped my Knight into the character he is. It's a beautiful thing.

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