AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Actually, here's a question, anyone know where I can get another copy of NWN, or 6. I have several friends interested in playing, but none of them own the game and I can't exactly give them mine because we'd all have the same CD key.

Theander wrote:

Actually, here's a question, anyone know where I can get another copy of NWN, or 6. I have several friends interested in playing, but none of them own the game and I can't exactly give them mine because we'd all have the same CD key.

Here you are!

You misunderstood the DM part, they do it for free, of course they log on/out when they want (it is a free server, I do not pay for hugs). Maybe a few more DM's, I beleive many older players would accept the challenge. About attention on newer players, I can check when I first logged in at the player tools menu. I am not new player, I just lost my login details along with my old e-mail address (yeah, I wont give out my number, dear google).

Evil, I played evil, i knew the toon was going to be in trouble and I am not keen on that thing, it was an opinion. I play not to win, I play because I enjoy playing (this is when i got frustrated by the clash of PvP rules vs. toon slapping toon)

I never attacked anyone as I believe the PvP rules are here to protect fun of the server and not for misusing it. But 666WaysToHell, I know one of Your toon, next time my toon just gonna shoot him

I'll find a reason, ok?

Asking around: the thing is I can not properly RP out that "I am on ECL 14 where should I go?

kanordog_again wrote:

Asking around: the thing is I can not properly RP out that "I am on ECL 14 where should I go?

People do this all the time, actually. "Yeah, those Shekats/minotaurs/giants/whatevers just don't seem as dangerous as they used to, you know? I'm looking for something more challenging." Or some such thing.

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

Power gaming and role playing aren't mutually exclusive. I'm not going to lie, I have trouble enjoying characters with weak builds.

I wasn't suggesting that we make weak builds either. But I'm talking about the people who log in and level. You know, those guys you constantly hear in party chat but never see role playing. I'm all for tough builds, hell, I'm gonna be making a tough build for my main character once the RP I'm doing clears, and if my request clears. But I'm role playing for every bit of it. I'm not a Blackguard one minute and then a Cleric the next for no reason. There is quite a bit of RP there. Power Gaming can be fun, but I love my four or five hour long sessions in Tarkuul with people.

And I feel like we have a larger portion of the server on now who want that sort of experience as well. I think we're a little better for it.

Now that doesn't mean I'm discouraging people who are more casual from coming in and playing the way they play, I just think being involved in your local community makes it far more rewarding.

Last edited by IronAngel on Sun, Aug 26 2012, 17:08 PM, edited 1 time in total.

I agree with your main point: most of the people who left were people who got bored of the game-mechanical aspects of NWN. We may have lost some players to other RP servers, but it's mostly the casual action gamers that have left. It's a shame because even those who don't contribute much contribute something. They make the place alive and populated. But yeah, 28 players online at the moment. 28 players playing pretend across the globe in our little story. That's more than enough to keep a server going. The only problem is somehow getting them together. This has been addressed time and again here so I won't rehash those points, but it's not like we need to be worried Amia gets entirely deserted.

About those advertisement banners! Anyone with some nice panoramic screenshots or something who'd care to make some for us to use on other forums?

Lizzie wrote:

kanordog_again wrote:

Asking around: the thing is I can not properly RP out that "I am on ECL 14 where should I go?

People do this all the time, actually. "Yeah, those Shekats/minotaurs/giants/whatevers just don't seem as dangerous as they used to, you know? I'm looking for something more challenging." Or some such thing.

Yep, sorry, forgot to add something like this. Most of the time people just mention where they last hunted and see what people think. It's also nifty to find out a potential hunting partners ecl. Just ask if they want to go pummel something and see what they saw. Typically, they will give you an IC response and then send you a tell giving their ecl. That's what I do, at least haha.

kanordog_again wrote:

Evil, I played evil, i knew the toon was going to be in trouble and I am not keen on that thing, it was an opinion. I play not to win, I play because I enjoy playing (this is when i got frustrated by the clash of PvP rules vs. toon slapping toon)

I never attacked anyone as I believe the PvP rules are here to protect fun of the server and not for misusing it. But 666WaysToHell, I know one of Your toon, next time my toon just gonna shoot him

I'll find a reason, ok?

The thing about evil is that you're left to your own devices unless you make a LOT of friends. Hell, why do you think Tarkuul exists? And I think my favorite part about playing an evil character is the fact that I might get the chance to advance a DM plot by possibly giving Amia a new baddie to deal with! Although I haven't gotten around to that part yet. It can be a lot of fun.

The thing about evil is that you're left to your own devices unless you make a LOT of friends. Hell, why do you think Tarkuul exists? And I think my favorite part about playing an evil character is the fact that I might get the chance to advance a DM plot by possibly giving Amia a new baddie to deal with! Although I haven't gotten around to that part yet. It can be a lot of fun.[/quote]

Funny to hear that after the threats tonight that my toon will be killed before the toons even met :O Yeah, lot of fun!

Quote:

Funny to hear that after the threats tonight that my toon will be killed before the toons even met :O Yeah, lot of fun!

kanordog_again wrote:

The thing about evil is that you're left to your own devices unless you make a LOT of friends. Hell, why do you think Tarkuul exists? And I think my favorite part about playing an evil character is the fact that I might get the chance to advance a DM plot by possibly giving Amia a new baddie to deal with! Although I haven't gotten around to that part yet. It can be a lot of fun.

Funny to hear that after the threats tonight that my toon will be killed before the toons even met :O Yeah, lot of fun!

Keep your personal issues with another player for yourself or for private messages.

Dead wrote:

Keep your personal issues with another player for yourself or for private messages.

Sorry about that, it won't happen again! Although a PM to the player would come out rather threatening which was not my goal, the goal was simply sharing info why I told what I told before. It does not matter who was it, it was just surprising (after playing less then 5 minutes!). It might happen/happened to others. It was not like this when I begun to play here 15 months ago.

As I sad I NEVER going to say such things and/or complain again!

No, you should complain, really. Just, not here. To a DM would be the better course.

Alright, I've dropped advertisements on my facebook, to local gaming groups and the Victorian LARP community. We should get a few more players out of that.

What you see is something called the Matthew Effect: when you're rich you'll become richer, when you're not you'll get poorer. We got on the wrong side of the balance somewhere, and that kinda reinforces itself. To get out of this downward spiral we'll need to do 4 things:

1. Get more players into the entry
2. Hook 'm when they're past the entry
3. Keep new and old players interested
4. Make old players return

It's good to see that some of you are addressing #1. I'd also think of the other 3 points. What can you, as a player, do to help with that? Perhaps you could be inviting to new players, try to interest some old farts to return, or take some time to get to know whomever is playing right now?

I think we need to start steering 'away' from old routines (such as the tedious beginners quests!) Make more or update some of them to include the lesser-explored locations (like the western outskirts of Cordor) or add something more to places like the west coast rather than having to only go through there to do one or two quests then never going there again once you're done. Wharftown and Uhm look more like retirement villages than actual towns because nothing really happens with them.

And this sounds unfinished because it is, i just can't think of anything more to write... but that's a start!

Dev Disco wrote:

1. Get more players into the entry
2. Hook 'm when they're past the entry
3. Keep new and old players interested
4. Make old players return

1. Check
2. Check
3. Check (more or less)
4. Fix the reason they quit for

Dev Disco wrote:

It's good to see that some of you are addressing #1. I'd also think of the other 3 points. What can you, as a player, do to help with that? Perhaps you could be inviting to new players, try to interest some old farts to return, or take some time to get to know whomever is playing right now?

Well it would help if some of the Amians were more friendly toward newer players, whether they know how to RP or not.

Though I was lucky and had someone really nice explain to me not to bring RL stuff in game etc (I actually started on a server before I played Amia and had no knowledge of RP'ing and the other server's players took EVERYTHING as IC even though I was so OOC, they never bothered to tell me to read the rules, how to RP or anything).

But I witnessed others, more than once (Quite a while back mind) shun new players, telling some if they cannot/do not know how to RP then they should basically GTFO. If that still happens, I can't see Amia attracting many new players.

Though, it doesn't seem as bad now, Amia has gone through a phase or two where alot of players are wolves in sheeps clothing, for example, act nice at first/on the forums, in game total A-holes! And I mean on an OOC level ofcourse.

Quote:

Well it would help if some of the Amians were more friendly toward newer players, whether they know how to RP or not.

+1

Also I have my own part to share.

I personally feel that everywhere I go, I see the same players in high ranking positions or influencing positions. Or their other character in high ranking position. I personally feel that there is a group of players who enjoy playng with each others and getting inside is very hard.

Secondly, I have tried many things trough my time here, with different characters to get somewhere. Each time I am near getting there, suddenly something happens mainly in OOC level. And I am left with empty hands.

Thirdly, I take IC action and work on matters and then, the characters disappear I worked with. All my effort just wasted.

One more, and I hope this doesn't get out the wrong way, but IMO... In many DM plots there seems to be the same players/characters being in the "spotlight." No matter from where they are.

Edited: Edited out all unneccessary text.

Hey, I've tried to read the gist of most of these posts, sorry if some of this has already been addressed. Here's my experience as a casual, new-ish player, who just can't seem to get a foothold here:

So you start off playing this low level, having fun running quests, meeting lots of people. And then this beautiful thing happens. Somewhere around the 6-15 level range you find a consistent group of friends you wind up leveling up with. It hooks you. But the group never makes it all the way to 30. People get a little busy, or start playing other characters, and eventually the level gap gets in the way.

It sucks, because by the time you're level 20, consistent groups are hard to come by. And when you're 30? Well, I've never gotten to that point, but I'm betting there's not as much to do if you don't already have a strong friend-base. Sure, you can stand around in town and roleplay. But for me, I need something more for my characters to do, or I feel awkward.

One thing I see a lot of: people just making new characters whenever they hit max with one. Personally, I think it's much better to have a couple good characters than fifty similar, mediocre ones.

So my two issues are:

1) Level gap
2) Feeling trapped at 30 with little to do

~

Ideas for solutions:

1) Increase the level range. Let people play with who they want to play with! Or, at the least, give some sort of partial exp for people out of range. For example, the lower level character out of range could receive the amount of exp they would get from fighting something their level, while the rest of the group received normal exp.

2) I played on another server (Stormplay) which had a really nice "reincarnation" system. Maybe you have heard of the concept already; it's a little different than a rebuild (If it's already in another thread, I apologize). Basically, at max level you could apply for a rebuild (with appropriate RP of course) and you got a little incentive to start over at level 1 again (I think they gave an extra feat or something for the first one, then after that a stat point). Was it OP? After 3 or 4 reincs, yes it was. But somehow, despite that, it worked. Really well, actually.

The thing is, people would take their best characters and play them at lower levels again. This caused the whole adventure friend-making process over again (connecting veterans with NEW players, and giving them a great impression). It caused people to be overall happier with their characters, too. They weren't busy making crappy new ones just so they could play the game again. They weren't waiting around for events to fall on top of them just so they had something to do with their favorite characters. And, they felt like they weren't wasting their time by re-leveling either, because their characters were actually getting stronger in the long run. There was a time limit for each reincarnation as well. This encouraged players to level slower, focusing less on gaining exp quickly and more on the roleplay that so naturally comes with adventuring.

Now I'm not necessarily suggesting an actual stat reward for rebuilding, but some sort of incentive to encourage people to replay their best characters would be awesome.

NaturallyCaffeinated wrote:

Ideas for solutions:

1) Increase the level range. Let people play with who they want to play with! Or, at the least, give some sort of partial exp for people out of range. For example, the lower level character out of range could receive the amount of exp they would get from fighting something their level, while the rest of the group received normal exp.

2) I played on another server (Stormplay) which had a really nice "reincarnation" system. Maybe you have heard of the concept already; it's a little different than a rebuild (If it's already in another thread, I apologize). Basically, at max level you could apply for a rebuild (with appropriate RP of course) and you got a little incentive to start over at level 1 again (I think they gave an extra feat or something for the first one, then after that a stat point). Was it OP? After 3 or 4 reincs, yes it was. But somehow, despite that, it worked. Really well, actually.

The thing is, people would take their best characters and play them at lower levels again. This caused the whole adventure friend-making process over again (connecting veterans with NEW players, and giving them a great impression). It caused people to be overall happier with their characters, too. They weren't busy making crappy new ones just so they could play the game again. They weren't waiting around for events to fall on top of them just so they had something to do with their favorite characters. And, they felt like they weren't wasting their time by re-leveling either, because their characters were actually getting stronger in the long run. There was a time limit for each reincarnation as well. This encouraged players to level slower, focusing less on gaining exp quickly and more on the roleplay that so naturally comes with adventuring.

Now I'm not necessarily suggesting an actual stat reward for rebuilding, but some sort of incentive to encourage people to replay their best characters would be awesome.

I think these are both interesting ideas. Speaking from experience (I get bored of hunting very quickly, and I really can't get into the rush to keep up with people - plus neither of my characters "feels" like a level 30 yet either), it can be hard to consistently find people to party with, especially if you RPwise have a number of restrictions on who you join. The majority of people I see on tend to be either 1-10 or 20-30, but that could of course just be me.

I absolutely support the first point. I've always wanted to abolish the party level restriction. I really don't see the problem it supposedly causes: people can help their buddies level up, sure, but if it isn't made to be any more rewarding than actually contributing in your own level range, so what. If people want to waste time leeching XP, as opposed to getting the same reward (or better; the numbers can be tweaked) for participating in a balanced team, that shouldn't be our problem. I also don't see the problem with high-levels "babysitting" lowbies to keep them from harm, because that's a perfectly IC thing they would be doing. With 25 people online at a time, I think we're past such ideological concerns.

This could be achieved with a cap of some sort: XP ought to be determined by the average CL of the party, but only up to a reasonable cap (that could be around 30?) for out-of-range parties. A level 30 helping level 3s clear kobolds would mean no XP for anyone, which is as it should be. But neither would a level 3 tagging along for a giant run mean ridicilous XP, as the cap of 30-or-so per kill would come in. There would be little mechanical incentive to tag along with the 30s if you could just kill kobolds with much less risk and similar reward.

Loot would still need to be tweaked in this model. But unless there's going to be new economic changes, gold remains irrelevant on Amia and thus there wouldn't be much of a problem.

I'm not sure why there's always been such strong opposition to removing the party level restriction. The supposed "problems" it would cause are easily managed with a few restrictions. The goal should be to make in-range partying and (what is currently) out-of-range partying roughly equally rewarding mechanically, or slightly in favor of in-range partying, so people can group up with whoever they're role-playing with. Adding some kind of a party gathering tool, an IC party ball, to Cordor's Nomad or something would still encourage meeting new people too.

EDIT: I guess I'll make this a seperate topic.

kanordog_again wrote:

Funny to hear that after the threats tonight that my toon will be killed before the toons even met :O Yeah, lot of fun!

Whoever told you that probably doesn't play in Tarkuul. We're plenty friendly OOC and don't appreciate when people do that sort of thing. You'll find that a lot of people will say a lot of things that aren't true about every place they don't play on.

For example: I think Kohlingen is full of baby-murdering knights who smite anything that disagrees with them. But that's simply because I'm an evil bastard and fear the consequences of my actions.

The best way to find out about a city, really, is just to RP there. Take chances and you'll probably find yourself having a lot more fun when it pays off. I'm not saying every chance you take is going to work out perfectly. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. Sometimes RP can be a bit slow everywhere too, but all it takes is some searching and you can generally find someone to do something fun with.

Dead wrote:

Keep your personal issues with another player for yourself or for private messages.

While your input is respected, I ought to tell you that it's worth mentioning that this guy was put off of an aspect of the game over it. That at least makes it worth addressing in my honest opinion. You shouldn't tell someone not to complain when people behave like this. That's like telling the victim of a mugging that it was their fault for being rich. It can't be tolerated. We need to engender respect for each other so that new players can look at us and go "Oh, they're all respectful and ish. Maybe I should do the same so they'll want to play with me too." That and disrespectful players tend to ruin every bodies fun. We're all here to have fun, right?

NaturallyCaffeinated wrote:

2) Feeling trapped at 30 with little to do

Been there. The way I break the tedium just either A) Weaseling my way into a DM plot or B) Making my own things happen. I honestly don't do B nearly as much as I should though. I'm planning on working on that though. And I'm also planning on getting as many people as I can weaseled into it as well! So you might hear from me in game soon!

NaturallyCaffeinated wrote:

1) Increase the level range. Let people play with who they want to play with! Or, at the least, give some sort of partial exp for people out of range. For example, the lower level character out of range could receive the amount of exp they would get from fighting something their level, while the rest of the group received normal exp.

This idea is okay in my opinion, but only if we can tweak the numbers so that you can't just take a level 1 into beholders and get him a level every few kills. Possibly give people less xp for that sort of thing, but give them XP all the same. I've seen one server with no level range, but also no xp tweak. It encourages people playing together at all levels. I went down with well geared level 4 rogue on my level 19 barbarian with no shirt on and using only a dagger and ended up having fun.

I think this option might be better if we had a way to lower our attacks per round though, for the sake of not completely out-pacing the lower level people and making them feel useless.

NaturallyCaffeinated wrote:

2) I played on another server (Stormplay) which had a really nice "reincarnation" system. Maybe you have heard of the concept already; it's a little different than a rebuild (If it's already in another thread, I apologize). Basically, at max level you could apply for a rebuild (with appropriate RP of course) and you got a little incentive to start over at level 1 again (I think they gave an extra feat or something for the first one, then after that a stat point). Was it OP? After 3 or 4 reincs, yes it was. But somehow, despite that, it worked. Really well, actually.

I actually really like that idea, might be awkward to implement though. It would also encourage power building on a new level, I think. But it is still an interesting way to connect the community. And I prefer it much, much more than option 1. Rebuilding would be more interesting and it would sort of legitimize the idea that long time vets have "been around" so to speak.

______

Jeez I had a lot to say this time! I hope my input helps. Frankly, I love Amia as it is, but some of these ideas could definitely provide vast improvements to the server. Though it would be a tremendous amount of work for the developers.

Can we do anything else to get people to join Amia than advertising on other forums?

I think all the proposed changes in this topic are worth looking into. however, I believe the Mathew Effect is the key here. We need to get more players to play the game. Honestly, that what made me first join Amia, it was always the most populated. So we just need to get more people in, and others will follow. I mean they may not be the brightest of Role Players but I think we would be amazed of how many great players started their role playing career by ray-of-frosting the NPC guards.

And as for advertising.. I think a trailer on YouTube may be a good idea. Just throw in a few screenshots, short videos of gameplay, medieval music and a classic 'blizzard' style ending. It could also be an exciting way to introduce players with the current plot line.

In response to the above post: I used to be one of those dumbies and I'm still a n00b to the extreme, but thanks to a nurturing player base and some very skilled players, I got marginally better! So yes, attract new folks and be inclusive.

gorgometh wrote:

be inclusive.

This is the hard part.

Sure, it might be difficult. Sometimes your character is exclusive in who they deal with, yadda yadda. I guess I'm talking more along the lines of showing some common courtesy and refusing to simply ignore others because they are not in your "Clique." From talking with others it seems the common courtesy bit comes a bit harder for all of us.

Sorry, this is more just a general observation and something I just felt inclined to put out there after the bit about new folks. Not really anything actionably applicable for a server wide change.

Well, I think the server's DM's could potentially learn how to get their point across better without essentially telling a player that they're shit, and basically for no reason.

That, and well, the seemingly massive inconsistencies when it comes to DM ruling on any requests.

At least, that's something that would've kept me around.

Magiros wrote:

Quote:

Well it would help if some of the Amians were more friendly toward newer players, whether they know how to RP or not.

+1

Also I have my own part to share.

I personally feel that everywhere I go, I see the same players in high ranking positions or influencing positions. Or their other character in high ranking position. I personally feel that there is a group of players who enjoy playng with each others and getting inside is very hard.

One more, and I hope this doesn't get out the wrong way, but IMO... In many DM plots there seems to be the same players/characters being in the "spotlight." No matter from where they are.

THIS. And I am friends with a lot of them and I love them, DM or Player. But when you have a circle you run with, you stick with them. That's just human nature. People see that. Not just me, I've heard it from countless players that "I'd try, but (insert playername) is just going to be the centre of attention, so why bother?"

/I/ know that if you try hard enough, you can sometimes break into the circles. But it's damned daunting, and people don't always have the pit-bull like tenacity (Read: OCD) that I have. This needs to break for new people. The recent Khem plot has shown how much better it can be, I think, when you have people outside the same group added in, and I think Mosh deserves a stand up applause for that. Newbies are getting the spotlight, and i think that's awesome.

I certainly agree with all of that. But on the other hand, I also am sure that a player who's been a consistently awesome RPer for a long time and has made a genuine effort to improve the RP around them really deserves to be acknowledged and rewarded for that. So it's kind of two sides of the same coin, you know? Yes, awesome newbies should be showered with love. But yes, awesome veterans should be showered with love, too. And the DMs obviously only have a finite amount of attention. So... dilemma.

Lizzie wrote:

I certainly agree with all of that. But on the other hand, I also am sure that a player who's been a consistently awesome RPer for a long time and has made a genuine effort to improve the RP around them really deserves to be acknowledged and rewarded for that. So it's kind of two sides of the same coin, you know? Yes, awesome newbies should be showered with love. But yes, awesome veterans should be showered with love, too. And the DMs obviously only have a finite amount of attention. So... dilemma.

I agree with this, also players who may not be as awesome RPers as others, but still put in the effort should be appriciated too. I think there is a hint of elitism in the server in some certain places, which while it improves the general RP, can isolate certain players through means of other players thinking "They're not good enough."
I've already noticed a lot of changes within the DM team, and they seem a lot player-friendly than my previous impressions on them, however there is always room for improvement. Old players who have left bad impressions (in terms of RP, not rulebreaking or anything.) should not have those impressions stay with them, and should be given other chances to evolve and improve. I think that certain members also need to be more trusting of the player base to do certain things, and take a risk. What's the worst that can happen, after all? A character actually gets to do something it want's too once in a while?

That may or may not all be true. But you need to remember that the players who get involved in stuff often do it through their own effort. Sure, some plots just fall into your lap. If they concern areas and factions, then it stands to reason people with high standing in the area/faction are quite central to it. But oftentimes you need to actively find your way into the story. How often did you PM a DM and request to do something with a plot? "My character has been watching this and that happen, and now he wants to do that and this about it. Could you assist?" I was barely ever part of any big DM stories myself (except some in Ultrinnan when I played the Ul'Saruk, but even then the interaction was mostly with PCs), until I just asked Yoss on MSN if I could do what I had in mind. Turns out it wasn't that hard, and now I feel my PC has a foothold to go further in the future.

Granted, people already comfortable and familiar with the server and the DMs have a lower threshold to doing this; it might seem intimidating or presumptuous to demand DM time like that. But they're certainly not going to turn you down just because they don't know you. If you want something, you have to ask for it.

Going to throw in the Angel on this one, made Great friends with Crowsterf back in the day by doing that. Having said, more DMs for us to do that with would be nice (no offense to the current DM team, you guys are doing awesome, I just don't seem to see enough of you online, and I'm online fairly frequently).

Lizzie wrote:

I certainly agree with all of that. But on the other hand, I also am sure that a player who's been a consistently awesome RPer for a long time and has made a genuine effort to improve the RP around them really deserves to be acknowledged and rewarded for that. So it's kind of two sides of the same coin, you know? Yes, awesome newbies should be showered with love. But yes, awesome veterans should be showered with love, too. And the DMs obviously only have a finite amount of attention. So... dilemma.

I can get behind this, and people like (not just, but including) Jes, BurningoutBright, Nivo, CouncilofAutumn, NinjaClarinet and the like, are *amazing* writers and RPers, who often leave me in sheer awe of their skill, but at the same time, let the rest of us develop too. I feel there isn't always room for new blood at the risk of alienating the old, and that doesn't help anyone.

Magiros wrote:

I personally feel that everywhere I go, I see the same players in high ranking positions or influencing positions. Or their other character in high ranking position. I personally feel that there is a group of players who enjoy playng with each others and getting inside is very hard.

It's not just what you feel, that's the situation right now. Don't flame me bro, but the RP plots going on right now are pretty exclusive. For one, there are no feeder events - notable events DM's announce with shouts, such as, 'Columns of smoke are rising from such and such area' to let PC's know there's something going on if they're interested - that could serve to get otherwise unaware players involved. Part of me wants to say, 'Or at least I don't know of any,' but I played WA-AY too much on Amia this summer and I didn't see one.

But that's beside the original point: adventurers in position of power. Looking at Forgotten Realms, half the world is run by retired adventurers: Waterdeep, Neverwinter, Shadowdale, and on and on. That's what adventurers who hit level 20 used to do before WoTC realized they could make extra money by selling Epic handbooks: they retired. It was their reward for surviving 20+ years of being stabbed in the gut, shot in the knee, fireballed in the face, impaled by spike traps, poisoned by spiders, imprisoned by evil kings and gods know what else. They retired and became leaders in the community.

I'm not saying characters should be retired, but the old guard needs to make room for new players and new characters if they expect people to want to come to the server. It's not polite to say but it's what was missing for me this year when I came back to Amia. Things have stagnated, and you can't just mix up stagnant water and call it good. You need to empty it out the cup and fill it anew.

Listen, I am 100% for others being inclusive, but you cannot realistically expect players who have invested all that time in their characters, stories, events, environment and the server in general to simply step back and say, "Oh? You want to take over and keep the realms safe from harm? Go right ahead, because I've been itching to retire." The problem of stagnation doesn't fall completely on the old farts who are still kicking around or the DM's. New folks and the folks who are bored, like you were this summer, need to step up and be bold enough to prove themselves. If that is what you want and that is something your character aspires to, then make it happen. Don't wait for an opening. Force one.

For me, personally knowing my character? He is not going to sit on the sidelines and watch others do work for him or edge him out of anything, but he's also not going to ignore someone working hard and I'm damn sure not going to ignore someone that is trying to be a champ and roleplay to their heart's content.

[quote="gorgometh""Oh? You want to take over and keep the realms safe from harm? Go right ahead, because I've been itching to retire." [/quote]
I don't think people are asking that, I think people are asking that you involve them in keeping the realms safe from harm, or let them help you destroy it.

gorgometh wrote:

Listen, I am 100% for others being inclusive....etc.

For me, personally knowing my character? He is not going to sit on the sidelines and watch others do work for him or edge him out of anything, but he's also not going to ignore someone working hard and I'm damn sure not going to ignore someone that is trying to be a champ and roleplay to their heart's content.

Then see this and read it exactly how you feel, because I try to include others if it is not a "state sensitive" matter or something like that, ya know? There are some things that have to be handled exclusively amongst your group. No politician, statesman or noble is going to air out their dirty laundry to strangers who have not put the time in to be trusted, yeah? And in the other extreme, if I'm a villain, you still better earn my trust if you want to help me ruin everyone's day! :twisted:

I can only echo what Gorometh wrote. Sir Robert will not simply step back from what he is doing, but there are characters he would support and involve and help on their way.

The influential positions also wary in nature. You can achieve them through creating factions or joining them. Some factions have long established players, making it hard to rise to the top (TKs for example). Some are less established or lack players so it is easier (EO or Awakened). Then there is the way through DMs (Cordor, Wiltun, Kohl for example). For that you need to show you are responsible so the DMs know they can give you such positions, and of course for great rp. And finally there is the way of just doing a lot of things and gaining connections through time.

You need to engage old and fellow new players, show initative, create rp and try to be a help for the veterans so they notice you, and then at some point support and really include you when you gained their trust. If you got a character who wants to be part of his world, my character will not introduce you to it by being a mouse at the side lines. He will if he thinks you have potential that he wishes to see flourish.

jimbono1 wrote:

I don't think people are asking that, I think people are asking that you involve them in keeping the realms safe from harm, or let them help you destroy it.

One thing people need to remember about the darker factions is that there is usually a competence threshold, both IC and OOC. I occasionally get a bit of flak for not immediately conspiring with every new villain that comes my way, but unfortunately most characters that approach me usually fall into incompatible tropes. Characters that hellball villages or PvP indiscriminately, bounce around in a goofy/insensitive portrayal of insane/sociopathic evil, can't string together coherent sentences, or try to be such badasses that they won't converse respectfully without threats or machismo, aren't going to get nearly the attention that calmer, more thoughtful evil characters will get. ICly and OOCly, it's always a bummer to include a new character that disappears after a week or immediately uses the trust to disrupt sensitive schemes simply because they can.

Of course, if someone is unreliable you're not going to trust them with anything. But if they're new, and making effort, then take them under your wing, and teach them how to be awesome, or hope that they can teach you something in turn.

And further, people really shouldn't play both sides of the fence any more than necessary. If you're sitting outside the Tarkuul portal smiting baddies, good for you, but I'm probably going to give you a cold shoulder if you try jump into bed with the blackguards an hour later on your secondary character. Not trying to complain, but I think it's good examples of red flags for new people trying to get in.

jimbono1 wrote:

But if they're new, and making effort, then take them under your wing, and teach them how to be awesome, or hope that they can teach you something in turn.

Amen.

One thing I have learned from teaching is that you can't change people and you can't look into their mind. If you want to change a situation it's generally better to look at what you can do about your own behaviour or routines instead of discussing/desiring the rest of the population to adapt.

Dev Disco wrote:

One thing I have learned from teaching is that you can't change people and you can't look into their mind. If you want to change a situation it's generally better to look at what you can do about your own behaviour or routines instead of discussing/desiring the rest of the population to adapt.

I think my view on this, and I may or may not be alone, is that people have to see it's possible before they'll take that (necessary) step. That's why I'm liking the River of Swords plot. Yes, in the beginning it was mostly that same circle. (Not all. Notice I don't say all.) But in the end a lot of other people are getting a chance to shine along WITH the oldies that have worked hard to earn their spot. It's like a fresh pitcher coming in in the seventh. They still get to win the game, but only *because* of the vet pitching the game well before then. Everyone gets their moment. This is a massively important thing.

Dev Disco wrote:

One thing I have learned from teaching is that you can't change people and you can't look into their mind. If you want to change a situation it's generally better to look at what you can do about your own behaviour or routines instead of discussing/desiring the rest of the population to adapt.

Ok. But attitude aside - what more can we players do to attract people to our server? You're the big boss. You know what usually works?

I've tried advertising some at other forums (No progress) and talked to some other friends about amia. What next?

P Three wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

I certainly agree with all of that. But on the other hand, I also am sure that a player who's been a consistently awesome RPer for a long time and has made a genuine effort to improve the RP around them really deserves to be acknowledged and rewarded for that. So it's kind of two sides of the same coin, you know? Yes, awesome newbies should be showered with love. But yes, awesome veterans should be showered with love, too. And the DMs obviously only have a finite amount of attention. So... dilemma.

I can get behind this, and people like (not just, but including) Jes, BurningoutBright, Nivo, CouncilofAutumn, NinjaClarinet and the like, are *amazing* writers and RPers, who often leave me in sheer awe of their skill, but at the same time, let the rest of us develop too. I feel there isn't always room for new blood at the risk of alienating the old, and that doesn't help anyone.

Whoa, wait what? Man, I'm terrible at lurking. I appreciate the head nod very much, but I don't think I deserve to be on a list of 'old blood.'

Aside from Glim (who I think can be argued is doing a ton of work for a ton of people at all times and should maybe be investigated for having a time machine and actually being The Doctor), I haven't really gotten any amount of attention from DMs. This archaeological stuff in Tarkuul is the first time I've had any impact on the server whatsoever, and even then it's not me doing it but instead a group of dedicated roleplayers who are logging in and emoting furiously at a pile of sand. FURIOUSLY.

I also think it's kinda funny you consider me 'old blood', considering how little I really know about this server and how very little I've contributed to it. I'm really not! I just hang out by myself and piss into the wind all the time.

I guess I could throw my two cents into the rest of the discussion by saying that as a player who seems to be on when very few other people are and playing by myself most of the time, I can only say that if I didn't know Letum out of game I'd still be getting murdered in the Bramble Woods by goblins. It's hard to get into this game without having a knowledgable older brother/sister to show you the ropes.

What about implementing a program like that, where you make yourself available to newbies on a list or something, so they can contact you out of game and get the help they need to get started? No reward or payment or anything, just volunteering out of the goodness of their heart and getting to know a new player who may end up being awesome.

A program? A list?
Pssssh.

We need a chat.
An easily maintained, ready to go, non complicated chat where rookies(newbies) can ask for help.
Something linked in game too.

I think it should be more than that, actually. Rather than just answering questions in a chat without really giving the new person 100% of your attention, I think it should involve playing with that person and showing them the ropes first hand. This would avoid miscommunication and frustration on the new player's part. Which is why I think having a volunteer service of 'big brother/sister' players would be greatly beneficial.

Amia....what happened?

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