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[ 18 posts ] |
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Arklon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 15:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
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A small wooden sign is placed just beyond the cart service in Bendir's Dale. Neatly carved into is the following script.
CAUTION !!! North of here stalks a shifter with poor arcane knowledge. All shadow spells are necromancy to it. Illusionists beware.
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Zedrik
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 15:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Silent Hill, Indiana
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Another sign soon hangs beneath, words carved in contradictory harsh and beautifully flowing letters.Shadows are undead. If I see you bring one into the forests again, it will be destroyed again. My patience grows very, very thin with you. - Traquisron Hlaeplith
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Arklon
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 17:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
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Tacked to the sign is a parchment with a drawing of a shadow.
"By your logic this piece of paper is now an undead. You should probably kill it with fire. A conjured shadow construct of an undead is no more than a drawing of an undead rendered in three dimensions for your viewing pleasure or pain as the case may be. If you are so mentally limited that you cannot see through the illusion and believe it to be real then I feel very sad for you indeed."
It is signed M. Snerd Illusionist Apparent Necromancer
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Zedrik
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 18:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Silent Hill, Indiana
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Flames are drawn on the picture of the shadow.
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Bravo21
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 19:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2008 Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee
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A grumpy looking gnome can be seen vigorously massaging his temples while reading the posts. After a few moments he pens his own reply and enchants the words with a soft purple glow.
The Lantan College of Illusiory Arts holds regular classes on basic illusions and would perhaps be of interest.
In lieu of such basic training however, the derivative force of a shadow, allowing it to chill and drain the strength of the living is indeed a formerly living force and thus can be classified as undead. It is not a simple illusion, as it can malevolently affect the world around it, and as it is in the alleged control of whomever brought it into the material plane, the wizard is responsible for it's evil.
Dak Algar, Master Illusionist, Lantan Illusion and Fire Safety Guild, local 447
_________________ Thine taste in horrid footwear not withstanding, I did not say that thou were in fact an idiot, I merely implied that such things were self evident.
-Krrja
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 19:18 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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*a simple and direct message is left*
Summons should not be dragged around if not direly needed in selfedefense. In the forest we will ask you to remove them. Undead, fiends and creations of negative energy or of destructive nature will be removed along with their creator/summoner.
Malandria
_________________  
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alamut
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 19:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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*A certain knight wearing the tabbard of the Sacred Order of Saint Elizabeth can be seen at the gates, looking at the post. He writes down a few things onto a black book before leaving with a serious expression on his face*.
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Homunculus
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Posted: Mon, Aug 06 2012, 20:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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*After an encounter with the Kelemvourite knight a bare-chested elf with his elven hound went to ask the local his to read the post for him aloud as well*
_________________ These trees are made for humpin'!
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Fabian
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 17:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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*Bruce wanders over to the board with a scroll and affixed it to a note of his own.* Denizens of the wood. I beseech your understanding in this situation in this and hope that my accompanying text will shed some much needed light on this incident. Feel free to consult your own sources, Winya, Seven Stars, what have you for its accuracy. Lastly, I would note that it was my understanding that this event took place near the spider dens and the simulacrum in contention was cast in preparation of culling the spider populations as must be done regularly. Respectfully, Bruce Kesselson Travelling Magus of Garl Glittergold *attached scroll, copies of which are sent to the grove for Malandria's convenience* Applied Illusions: Shadow Simulacrums A brief essay by Bruce Kesselson and Mortymer Snerd The school of illusion is first, a largely misunderstood and rarely sought after discipline. Many practitioners who pursue these talents do so for very specific reason as Illusory manifestations have limited uses for which they can be applied. The scope of these manifestations is only limited by the imagination of the practitioner, however, as such provides nearly endless possibility. The subject this essay is meant to address is that of the illusory creation of simulacra as applied in martial action. In lay terms a simulacrum is a manifestation of an object, being or something tactile in some way. If the object of origin is capable of affecting any of the five basic senses, then a simulacrum of that object can be generated by an Illusionist. The more subtle the tactile imposition, the more advanced the illusion must be to mimic those qualities. For martial purposes, the most commonly generated simulacrum is in the form of a dreaded being. It should be noted that in order for any simulacrum to be effective, those observing the creation must not be aware of the fact that it’s simply the manifestation of will and weave. Persons and certain creatures of mental awareness will be able to see through such creations in which martial application is rendered ineffectual. Those beings that are unable to “see through” the creation will then be affected by the actions of said creation as though it were real to them. There is some debate and ongoing research as to the effectiveness of obscure creations and their effects on those unfamiliar with the “creature” type. For this, many practitioners lace a portion of the shadow plane within their simulacra to ensure some tactile effects do take place; even to those that are ignorant of the original being. Similarly, those who have mastered the Weird incantation, the spell’s effects can be altered from its normal quality of a nightmare, inducing cardiac arrest, to that of conjured, shadow plane ectoplasm that are physically capable of bludgeoning those near the shaped material. Methods: Because the school of Illusion is, in some ways, a sub school of conjuration, at least a rudimentary understanding is needed to excel in the art. The reason for this is that advanced illusions required working with material from the plane of shadow. Therefore an understanding of how to perform those planar extensions is necessary. The reason the school is not part of conjurations entirely is due to the fact that Illusionists do not tend to cross other planar boundaries in their applications of their manifestations. It’s likely this is the case due to the fact that material from the shadow plane is more malleable in creating a desired manifestation. Simulacrum creation follows these exact principles to generate an effect described above. The practitioner will typically create the form with a weaving and then add to it, the martial qualities desired; by drawing from the shadow plane the raw material needed to so. Thus, most simulacra can be observed even to those with the mental capacities to discern the manifestation’s true nature. Common Applications: Because the manifestations are given tactile qualities using the plane of shadow, most manifestations take on the qualities most akin to this, such as shadows, wraiths and ghosts. After all, the moment the manifestation of a Minotaur didn’t bleed up on being struck, the entire premise of the illusion has been compromised. Unfortunately, this also causes a great deal of misconception and misunderstanding as some field practitioners will be wrongly accused of necromancy, when in fact, they are using only a manifestation. Conclusions: Illusionists must be careful and sensible in the use of their art as cultures have varying degree of tolerance for the use of necromancy or things remotely identifiable as necromancy. Care should especially be given around those dichotomously opposed to those practices, simulacrum or not, they will not distinguish a difference and persecution is inevitable to follow. A truly odd thing is that shadow dancers are not persecuted in the same way, even though their manifestations are also drawn from the plane of shadow, more directly even then that of the Illusionist as their summoning is that of a conjurative nature, instead of a simple tapping of material. //OOC //Due to the limitations of the current spells, the shadow conjuration illusion spells just copy the spells for which they mimic instead of doing what they’re supposed to do by making a facsimile of the same. I propose these spells be altered to reflect this and even add a will save for those spells in damage akin to Weird. Likewise, the shadows summoned by these spells should produce a new critter called Shadow Simulacrum in order to negate the issue of these confusions due to the game limitations; one can just create the same shadow and put the STR damage ON HIT property, on a DC akin to BBD’s rift code. //Undead can only be created by necromantic spells. //Resources: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_Conjuration (read Notes) // http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjuration.htm
_________________ ~Science Transcript~ Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Channeling a different color.. Vyashir! Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] Purple? Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Prepare for purple! Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] yes!
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 17:45 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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No summons in the forest unless there is dire need. There is enough space to summon in the spider valley if that is the destination. I also personally saw him run through the forest with the shadow while beeing invisible on my own patrol so that is a lie.
That is all there will be said about the matter. No summons unless in immediate defense.
Malandria
_________________  
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Arklon
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 18:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
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Points of note. I fail to see it posted anywhere about no summons in the forest. And yes I in fact did run through the forest with my "shadow simulacrum" before I was aware that the vast amount of uneducated oppressor's in this realm considered it to be undead. I have since not summoned it one time in hopes that the citizens of Amia will either come to their senses regarding illusion magic or at least seek out some information regarding it. But, since you people seem to refuse to see reason or come to some form of compromise ... I see no point in catering to you. I will create my shadow simulacrum when I feel the need for defense.
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Arklon
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 18:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2012
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Further I would like to point out that I witnessed the benevolent "big people" of Amia offer the option of redemption to a woman wearing the entrails of her former friends ... a woman that admitted to enjoying the killing of those people while claiming the desire to do so again. While I, a new arrival to this island am treated with the immediate threat of death based upon a misunderstanding of arcane philosophy. I find it reprehensible that the one idividual that has treated me with the highest level of trust and friendship from day one is a goblin. I daresay that anyone on the mainland would laugh and believe I were telling some joke in poor taste where I to inform them of what has happened here.
To shed further light on the "big people" reference above .. while watching you people show compassion to an obvious murderer and psychopath ... I shared my opinion and was rudely informed to "hush while the big people were talking".
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 18:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010 Location: Sydney, Australia
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A (relatively) small note in neat, simple handwriting is attached to the publically-available copy of Bruce's dissertation.
Having a considerable amount of expertise in the field myself, I wish to dispute some of these assertions. Please excuse where I have referenced sources and included none; I have little ability to do so at the moment, and I must prevail upon the reader's own knowledge.
Firstly, it must be agreed and acknowledged that the shadow creatures native to the Plane of Shadows are most certainly undead. They are composed of the planar matter and negative energy and are compelled to extinguish life and propagate their own energy, qualities shared by many other undead.
Secondly, it must be noted that, regardless of the particulars of the spellcasting, conventionally-conjured shadows retain the physical ability to drain life via application of negative energy. They are indeed physically capable of bludgeoning foes, but the true threat comes from this negative energy. This negative energy could not possibly be fabricated by "belief" alone. Shadow matter has been conjured to this plane, and with it a thread to the Negative Energy Plane. It has even been demonstrated that these conjured shadows react to positive energy in a way similar to most undead; it causes them harm. I speculate that clerical channelling will have the same effect upon the conjured shadow as any other undead creature. Both of these facts can be readily tested, if one wishes to dispute this particular unsourced claim.
Thirdly, the comparison to "Weird" is false; Phantasms are images that interface with the mind in such a way as to generate extreme, often lethal terror. Abjuration effects that protect the mind negate this fear and prevent the Phantasm from causing any harm. Such abjurations have no effect whatsoever upon a conjured shadow's ability to drain life, nor other shadow spells. Of course, it may be argued that because these abjurations have no effect on simpler illusions, there is no reason that a "Shadow Simulacrum" should be affected. However, these simpler illusions can be pierced using the Divination spell, "True Seeing", and there have been no documented cases of conjured shadows appearing differently when viewed so. Further, it seems no degree of willful disbelief or foreknowledge can prevent the damage dealt by the conjured shadow, as compared to illusions involving no shadow material.
The exact nature of the conjured shadow does elude me, and there are still some mysteries surrounding the use of this magic I am uncertain of, hence I do not oppose your position outright. My immediate theory is that the undead nature of the conjured shadow may in fact be accidental; one can observe that the Shadow Conjuration spell, if applied differently (for instance, if applied as a defensive ward, or a field of darkness) produces no significant amounts of negative energy. It is possible that in attempting to form a being possessing a degree of sentience, either due to the amount of material conjured or by the method it is given thought, the negative energy thread forms incidentally as part of the process, in the same way a corpse, when animated by Necromancy, forms such a thread.
But can these conjured shadows truly be considered undead at all, even though they do in fact hold so many traits in common with native Shadows? Consider that no corpse has been defiled and no soul is twisted and tortured. A being of shadow and negative energy has formed, entirely under the arcanist's control. Consider the erroneously-named "Shades" summoned by those called "Shadowdancers"; my limited research indicates that despite many physical similarities (including composition; these creatures cause harm by channelling negative energy) they may not in fact respond in the same way to divine magic as shadows conjured by arcane spells. Without further research I cannot determine if these "Shades" are undead, or Outsiders, if indeed they are either. If they are not undead, however, it is possible that there exists a method for arcanists to conjure shadows that cannot be confused as undead, but a great deal of care to modify the conventional form of the spell may be required to cause this.
*in smaller and shakier handwriting* Assuming my arguments are not dismissed out of hand, I would be interested in investigating this matter further and not through this method of correspondence...
M. K."
//OOC: I'll be trying to handle this as much In Character as possible, but just so you understand my logic: I'm reconciling the difference between NWN and the P&P spells by running with "What You See Is What You Get". If I've made the wrong decision and DMs correct me for it, well I guess I'll find out one way or another...
_________________ @Thanatopsis#6293
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 18:37 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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*there is not further response of the archdruid. Likely, she said what she had to say on the matter*
_________________  
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LollipopSpider
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 18:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
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Both of the more extensive, thought-out responses receive like attention from one particular reader, who does not involve themselves in the written discussion, and seems just as content to reap the information from the responses.
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Stronglikesumo
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Posted: Tue, Aug 07 2012, 23:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2011
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Arklon wrote: Further I would like to point out that I witnessed the benevolent "big people" of Amia offer the option of redemption to a woman wearing the entrails of her former friends ... a woman that admitted to enjoying the killing of those people while claiming the desire to do so again. While I, a new arrival to this island am treated with the immediate threat of death based upon a misunderstanding of arcane philosophy. I find it reprehensible that the one idividual that has treated me with the highest level of trust and friendship from day one is a goblin. I daresay that anyone on the mainland would laugh and believe I were telling some joke in poor taste where I to inform them of what has happened here.
To shed further light on the "big people" reference above .. while watching you people show compassion to an obvious murderer and psychopath ... I shared my opinion and was rudely informed to "hush while the big people were talking". * a certain red head adds to this particular posting* And if we dont show compassion to others, and how you conviently forgot to mention how she was suffering from lycanthropy AND how you just wanted to execute her on the spot, We are no better than murderers, or common highwaymen. You dont Execute someone who is cursed or controlled by some Magical means you -HELP- them. And I said " Hush the Big kids are talking" Because you stomped your feet like a child and would rather kill the poor woman and argue with a shapeshifter over the ethics of if an illusionary shadow is undead or not. Have a nice day.
_________________ I'm not my Avatar, if you have a problem with Ponies, I suggest you keep it to yourself.
Have a nice day.
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Fabian
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 0:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
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*Bruce caught up on the postings while tapping his nose, he read the response by M.K. and nodded thoughtfully* Here's someone making an effort to understand and clarify the whole debacle. Good on you sir...
*then he kept reading and came to the later posts and began to frown wondering if he had known himself of this new rule of the forest and shook his head* This must be new...
*As he read through Mort's latest posting he sighed and began to nod* There seems to be very little sense in whom people choose to give quarter to. This has always been the case, unfortunately.*he muttered to himself*
*Lastly, he came to the most recent post and he tilted his head* Hmm. That's not exactly how I recall it happening. *wondered if his mind was aloof* I only remember Mort expressing the wild discrepancy and the celestial defending Mort and his right to comment.. not that he expressed the desire for the afflicted's death...and it was the Shifter that took up the debate and goaded Mort. *he shrugged and paused at the comment about murderers and highwaymen and scribbled down a brief note with a little ire shown in his expression*
"Oh, you mean how we casually murdered the Drow ..." *he tore down the note before continuing and shook his head* This has to stop.
_________________ ~Science Transcript~ Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Channeling a different color.. Vyashir! Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] Purple? Bruce Kesselson: [Talk] Prepare for purple! Vyashir lndrire: [Talk] yes!
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maglorine
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Posted: Wed, Aug 08 2012, 1:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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*the signs and all attached posters are removed by order of the Mayor*
_________________ Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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