Is this a fucking joke?

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I hope so lol

I can respond to this in a long paragraph, but I'll just ask a simple question instead-

WHY?

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Like I said, so that you don't just equip it straight away. It becomes more favourable to trade an item for something that suits your character, than equip it and only get half the benefits.

This keeps the rarer items moving into the hands of people that can use them and want to use them, instead of them ending up in the equipment slot of a character that doesn't really need them and staying there for months until they're eventually replaced.

It's useless to complain about the state of the loot system if you're just going to let slide the fact that players get lots of free use out of those rare items until they finally get rid of them, and that's something that can make item hoarding very attractive.

Discouraging item hoarding (if a player hoards because they think it might come in handy for them... one day) makes it more rewarding to actually go fight a boss whether you're in a group or not, because if you don't get the epic loot that you want, you can trade with someone who did and also didn't get what they want.

Whether this would actually mean less boss runs overall (because unwanted items definitely get circulated) I don't know. I can't say for sure because I've never even handled or looked at the loot you're talking about, nor have I really done a whole lot of fighting in areas designed for epic characters. So, you tell me.

I don't think it will change anything to be honest. Items that have little benefit aren't often used anyway. A +2 Inteligence bonus from an ioun stone for a Weapon Master doesn't do very much for example, and some epic gloves of Discipline on a mage won't either in most cases. Also, half the epic loot found are weapons, and they almost always get traded or sold considering the very rare chance of getting a weapon used by the character who found it. Horders of epic loot horde in order to trade for something useful, and from what I have seen, the trade goes well for the one with the extreemly needed item.

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I'm telling you NO NO NO NO NO NO NO



No, it's useless to complain about it until you buckle down and fix the economy and the lootbins and add the quests and all that shit.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Interesting idea, but I don't think the binding items will be happening on Amia. It's a little too meta for our style. Unless the items are cursed items. So be careful!

Ever thought about having normal mobs given a tiny winy chance of dropping the same shit as bosses?

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

This has so much to do with rezzing in the entry...

Or just eliminating bosses entirely and giving massive boosts to the named and colored mob bosses that spawn randomly because bosses are just awkward in a persistent world.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

could make the bosses so hard to the point that they are nearly impossible even with a full group and have them guaranteed drop something....and beef up the random mini bosses and give them a slight chance of dropping good shit?

Diablo 3 comes to mind there, but also kind of a better idea for the same reasons, to prevent boss farming.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

This never works because you end up having Coteries of boss hunters dropping all the bosses and then having them control the market. Been looked at a number of times and even trialled with Fire Giants recently and it's just not a workable solution.

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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor

So far, I think this is the best idea.

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Or, you can focus on RP, get DCs and then request some even more awesome epic item. But that just sounds like too much work it seems...

To stay on the topic, I believe it's good thing. I would even recommend to allow deleveling back below lvl 30 due to exp loss to make it even more serious business.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

I think Remal has the right idea with the requesting your own epic items. To my knowledge you can request items that may be slightly more powerful than certain epic items, though I could be wrong.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Sometimes you might want to just Rp, and get rp rewards, not only dc's, but envolvement, job stuff, crafts done, lol's, etc, it's fun and no one hats you for it
Then sometimes you might want to use the mechanics for immersion, dodge some swordblows, live through a spellblast, drink a magic potion, and in the end of the dungeon, find a rare magical trinket, just like in all those DnD book covers that we use to drool over, of gold hoards and magic stuff. But then, someone hates you for that? this is totally crazy.. why can't people focus on what they want, and be happy at that? i just don't understand the - I hate boss farmers - mentality, or the pejorative term at that.. why must bosses be looked at like some sort of potato to be just picked, they can be extremely difficult to beat sometimes, and the reward is there only 5% of times...

yeah.. and request items are better anyway...

Some people enjoy the combat aspect more than the role-play aspect, some like role-play and despise combat, and some like both equally. Let's not try to get butt-hurt over the argument. If you prefer a method, go with what you prefer. My assumptions on the debate are that some don't like others for having different tastes. As much as I would like to see more role-play, you can't force it. Everyone has the same ability to do as they please with the time they play, and nothing is unfair. I don't recall ever playing with anyone who doesn't role-play with their character on this server to some degree.

[this is assuming the debate is centered around promoting role-play and not some kind of unfairness]

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What is so bloody wrong with bosshunting again? Can somebody explain Exactly why its a Big NO-NO.

Because it struck me today that... Its your own fucking problem if you want To chase epics.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

It's supposed to be an RP server. I don't think i've ever watched a film where people farmed bosses and waited for them to respawn for terms of story.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

Don't get your knickers in a twist there's nothing wrong with boss hunting in itself, the problem, from my view is when you constantly farm bosses every chance you (Not a you specifically, you as in general) get, because the majority of the time, it's to power game and we all know why people do that don't we? Usually to get an advantage against other players.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Who said I hate boss hunters? I just pointed to another way to get cool items...way many people completely forget about it, and IMHO should be main way to get such powerful gear on RP server.

Again, back at topic:
It would also be good to put up respawn timer (just like with raise dead stuff) so people don't overuse it soo much. I mean, once you exchange your gold for epic loot and buy crapload of pots, there's really no true penalty for dying anymore. Gold is safely stored in the form of epic stuff and pots/wands/scrolls, so you can just go and die without impunity...

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

I wish I knew the answer. From my perspective, since I seem to be labeled as a boss-hunting piece of shit, I can assume it is partially because I am thought of as someone who doesn't role-play (which is untrue) or that the system is somehow unfair.

It's a silly argument if DCs can be gained from role-play, and better items can be requested.



Sure, some people just boss-farm and do little else. To me, this is not fun or balanced, but that's a subjective stance. What's the point of Boss farming without any role-play? If you can mix the two, it's not so bad. I personally enjoy combat as much as role-play, and having a maxed character who has an itch for combat every now and then, it's dungeon-running with a companion or two.

Like I said, you can't force role-play. Something can be changed to make epic loot even harder to get in order to disuade boss-hunting, and it would probably work (although it's not forcing rp, just giving those who would otherwise just boss-hunt time to do so). Not many will be boss-hunting if the 5% chance of epic loot was reduced to 1%. Also, the opposite is true- making epic loot very easy to get (like a 100% chance for an epic drop) would make people farm less, and nobody will be trying to obtain millions of gold (and this can also help the economy balance out).

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Actually, it's already 3% +1 per party member I believe. And Roleplay can be forced, to an extent, since ignoring Roleplay can get you in trouble (Choosing to null RP because you didn't like it for example). So yeah, RP is kinda mandatory.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

It's 3% +1 per party member? Really?

Do some people on this server completely ignore role-play? Even the piece of shit fuckface boss-farmes I have come across stop and chat for a while.

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There are some, though from my experience they are a minority. And yes, last time I read something on another topic it was 3% for boss loots.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

is this really appropriate? it really seems like you're venting rage and envy by name calling.. this is really awfull...

Sorry, I wasn't being serious there. I don't hate how anyone chooses to play, just exagerating what others imply when they speak about boss-farmers.

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I don't mind boss farmers, I hate the ones that are inconsiderate of others and just run pass all the spawns leaving them there.

Murex said:



From the front page of amiaworld.net:



The key to keeping Amia (or any server) popular is to appeal to a variety of player styles without the whole thing entangling itself. In short, allow Amia to keep something for everyone.

And just personally (as one player), I concur with Murex: I like that Amia can give me different things depending on my mood. If I want to just chill and rp, there is no short supply of it. If I want to party with some buds and crack some monster heads, I can do that too. And yes, I'm a player who even enjoys solo'ing, because sometimes I'm feeling introverted and want to go at my own pace.

But anyway - this is way off topic. I like the forced respawn. Death is scary. Though I might propose they slice the wait period to be raised for PvM deaths, if only to reduce the risk of being boned (despite hunting in a party) due to server crash. Its a minor thing though, imho.

I never did understand why there was a cool down for death in PvM. I get that PvP cooldown stops the whole *Die, resurect, fight, die, res, rinse repeat.*

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Because entire process of reviving/patching someone up after such wound requires certain amount of time? Or we could maybe start using rules from PnP concerning spell durations or raise dead/ressurect?

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

Maybe it does, but Amia went years without such a thing in place and when it did get put in all it changed was how much more annoyed people get with dying. All it does is cause annoyance, for me atleast. It's not even like it provokes a great deal of RP while people await the timer to be up. Most I usually see is *Searches for a scroll* - and then nothing else until the timer has run. I hardly ever, if ever see anyone RP'ing the patch up of the poor dead sod.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

I do try to RP, usually by cursing, then patching up and then using raise scroll on poor sod.
And by the way, it SHOULD be AT LEAST annoying. You got yourself killed. Be more careful and it won't happen, at least not so much to constantly annoy you.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

Oh, I am careful. I've kept my free respawn all the way to Epic on a few characters. The annoyance comes more from having to wait to raise others. That's not to say I never die as a character though.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

I usually see some decent RP, especially in a party. Depending on the char I am using and the char that died, I usually will call out that I will raise and start looking for a scroll. Typically there is idle chit-chat in the meantime as well. Provoke more during-death RP! :3


Same here! Had a couple characters that were 22+ before they had to respawn :3 Yay for good parties!

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Pretty much the same, you allowed your ally to get killed, or he/she was dumb and endangered the party. In any case, penalty should exist. Plus then you can RP being pissed off/apologetic for this inconvenience of having to waste time patching the sod up.

And as I said before, even respawns should have timers too. I already mentioned that in more detail some posts up this page, but it got ignored due to OOC RP discussion.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

It's hardly the same. It wasn't isn't and never will be my job to keep my party alive, unless I take the role of healer in the party. It's usually more like the person endangered the party like you said.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

Back OT

I've read the thread and kept silent, but finally I want to share my opinion, and it differs from the majority it seems. In my opinion, gold is easy to get by. Every kill gives 100+ gold pieces. If you're a fighter class, you need to buy stacks of heal potions and lesser mind blanks which takes a small sum, but if you're a caster, the gold isn't lost at all but instead piles up into infinity. Loosing gold is just a number that goes down and is easily regained. Xp on the other hand takes for ever to restore. To show an example:

I have a necromancer, Grau Meatcleaver lvl 26. I haven't played with him for months but last week, I entered the gateway, dead of course. Usually I get grumpy, log off and quit play when I die with a character and stay away from Amia for some weeks until my mood gets better. So dead, forced to respawn, lost just about 1700 xp and 122000 gold. The xp loss was low since I had gained a level some hours before I died.

So, I went by, trying to find a party but it is hard at levels above 20 and even harder when they see my skeleton arm. There seems to be 100 paladins on each evil guy so I had to solo or risk PVP every time I came close to other players. I kept solo playing for three evenings, playing roughly 2-4 hours each time. To minimize the risk of dying since it cost so much xp I hunted barbarians, beastmen and other critter that gave 5-10 xp/kill at best but usually just 1xp. Still, in the middle of a fight my imp. Invisibility quit and I was chopped down by meager beastmen champions. I had to respawn and lost another 120 000+ gold and absolutetly all of the xp I had spent so many evenings and hours to regain. The average rate for me use to be around 1000 xp/hour when solo playing but I had gone down to 500 xp/hour while trying to find someone to party up with, just to be sure I wouldn't die meanwhile. Too bad it didnt work out the way I planned.

The things I want to point out with this short story are:
*Gold is much, much easier to regain than xp. I would rather loose 50% of the gold than 10% of the xp on respawn.
*Saying ”find a party” is like beating a dead horse, if the party ball is empty and no one wants to party up, I have to solo. That is especially true in B and even more especially true for an epic character.
*Not everyone spend their time on the build forum, there are characters out there that has a hard time surviving solo (like mine) and those get a double punishment through this enforced rule.
*When someone say ”it's easy to regain xp” they think all players can play for hours and hours but that is for people without obligations to anyone but themselves. Most of us above 25 have a family and can only play one hour at a a time in odd hours and for us (my type of player) the enforced rule hits hard since it might take several weeks between the time of death and the moment the xp is regained. It's just not as fun as it used to be when all xp gained is lost over and over again and my characters are never gaining any levels, no matter how much I play.

I can understand that there is a chance to abuse the system with raise in the gateway, but I would rather see another kind of implementation that didn't take away this much xp in a world like Amia where it is getting harder and harder to find a party while the playerbase slowly disappears to other games on the market so soloplaying becomes more and more enforced. It doesn't make the game more fun at all, quite the opposite. For instance, why can't the soul keeper have more options like:
1. You loose 10%xp and 10% gold
2. You loose 0 xp and 30% gold
3. You loose 20% xp and 0 gold
4. You loose one random item from your inventory
Then, depending on the way you play and the time you got for NWN, you can choose what punishment you'll take to come back to the real world again.

If you're a mage and struggling to solo exp you're doing it wrong frankly. As sad as this is, I could probably make 10 thousand exp in an hour with a mage. I could get a level in under an hour with a full party. Granted, I don't play palemasters so it might be a little more difficult - if it is stop hunting and go out to make some chums and convince them to come hunt with you. 9/10 a person, who is thirty, will come hunt if the promise of killin' roleplay is dangled before them. As for the goodly thing - well - thats just the consequences of your build choice. Go to Tarkuul, theres hoards of players in that area atm. A good way to avoid that respawn button is going out with a chum.

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Yes, if you know exactly how to build, how to find the right items at the right traders, which character you can trade epic gear with and where to roleplay to get dream coins, it is possible to get a lot of xp soloing as a mage, but please don't judge all players and characters in Amia from that. It's like looking at the winners in the olympic games saying "so are the average Joes too and we must create a game that fits them".





...


What I don't understand is, why make it less fun now? After all these years? I must agree with Anubis:

If anyone thinks things are difficult, you are doing something wrong. You shouldn't hind behind the excuse that you don't know how to do xyz good, so the game needs to be made to compensate for your faults.

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Things -are- difficult though. Especially compared to four years ago. Spawns are much tougher, gold is harder to come by, there are more gold sinks to support that.

That's like me saying, if you're finding things easy, you're probably cheating in some way, which is not neccessarily true. I'm not accusing you or anyone else of cheating with this post by the way.

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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis

I suppose it's a matter of opinon then. I think most people would prefer it harder than easier, but a poll would have to be taken to know for sure.

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I doubt any DM would say "a poll was made among the players in the forum and now we have to revert the possibility to raise dead in the gateway back again". Having a poll in here won't do much good either compared on how many players I've met in Amia that don't have a forum account. You'll only see the opinions from the most ardent players in Amia, not the opinion from all the rest that might try this gameworld for a while to see if it is what they want so they stay and play, or move on to another world if they don't like it.

I don't say "make it easier" either, I just say that I don't like the huge xp loss at respawn since the only ones unaffected by it are hardcore Amiaplayers with powerbuilds, often at level 30 where the xp loss is negligable, and a lot of time for play. I just want to say that there are other players out there, like me, that doesn't fit that description and it's a pity that the "fun factor" is so much lowered for us for such puny reason, especially now when the world is loosing players each month. A year from now, Amia might be a world based on two servers but with five active players on an average evening with say three level 30 old time friends bosshunting and two other players scattered around in A, a world so huge so the chance that they meet each other for a natural RP is nearly zip. Why, oh why you developers, do you rush to that end by enforcing new rules that make the world more frustrating and boring to play in?

This is pretty much going in circles over something that is being addressed soon, anyway. You can continue discussion after that particular change is in.

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"Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."