AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Okay, I'll post the inevitable thread.

Is there any "common knowledge" about the Jarldom of Ostland? I've given myself a basic tour, and so far as I can tell from what's implemented so far, the place seems kind of like Wiltun / Caraigh but without the taint, and with a slightly bigger town, situated on the east coast of Ruathym. Also so far as I can tell, the place is purely an Amia invention, not adapted from existing FR source material, which would obviously make it something of a blank slate. And apparently there's a War Knight keep somewhere there, and the War Knights I've encountered about it IC seem to be treating it as though they've been there all along?

Is there anything the DM team cares to add? Rumors, innuendo, basic histories, basic relationships to other realms, etc.?

Last edited by Edanius on Sun, Jun 10 2012, 1:43 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't.. "ost" swedish for cheese? So it'd be "Cheeseland"?

"Oh, we've had a keep in Cheeseland for ages! Lot's o' Munsters there."

*Edit: Sorry for the fairly unrelated post.

Edanius wrote:

"Oh, we've had a keep in Cheeseland for ages! Lot's o' Munsters there."

My apologies for the spam, but this is win.

As noted, Ostland is on the east coast of the large island of Ruathym, between Amia and the mainland, to the north of the islands of Wiltun and Caraigh, according to this map.

The lore will be revealed via quests, placeables and probably DM events over time. It is a mix of FR lore and Amia-specific stuff. Some names may be changed or locations altered slightly from previously published info (e.g. the map referred to above is not entirely correct - for example, it has Rethgaard in the wrong place).

Some general information may be found in "The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier" - of course, you shouldn't believe everything you read...

Most people will probably know the following:

The Ruathym region includes the large island of Ruathym and several nearby smaller ones - Wiltun, Caraigh, Axard and Nerth. There are four Jarldoms on the main island. The satellite islands host their own Jarldoms.
Ruathym, like most of the Sword Coast and the islands of the Trackless Sea, was originally settled by a people known as the Northmen.
Ruathym is rich in wood (the foundation of its naval strength), hides & furs, fish, silver, and semi-precious gems.
Over the last few decades, Luskan and Ruathym have fought an on-again off-again war that has been inconclusive on both sides. The two currently maintain an uneasy peace and still snipe at each other and occasionally pirate each others shipping.
Some sources, confusingly, also refer to the capital of (the island of) Ruathym as Ruathym. In fact, Ottar, to the south of Ostland, is the main Jarldom of Ruathym and it has the best farming on the island. Its capital is Holgerstead and, if any place can really be said to be the capital of the entire region, this is pretty much it.
Osthavn is the major port of the Jarldom of Ostland.
"Ancient seafaring dwarves built th[e] stone fortress [of Rethgaard, just off the coast of Ostland] and, until recently, [it] refused alliance with Ruathym and sided with Luskan. After Rethgaard refused to ally itself against Luskan, it was plundered by [Ruathymi] forces" and left deserted. In the last few years it has been taken over by the War Knights, though their claim to it is tenuous and amounts mainly to being strong enough to hold onto it for now. Any commitments they may have from one Jarl granting them ownership could easily be disputed by another.

is this where those dwarf gods fought?

Kraniumbrud wrote:

is this where those dwarf gods fought?

Ooo, fun question. Are we getting the battleground between Clangeddin and Labelas Enoreth?

Kraniumbrud wrote:

is this where those dwarf gods fought?

Not sure about that. I know Uthgar hung out there at one point.

The avatars of Clangeddin and Labelas fought all over Ruathym with Labelas winning the conflict.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Time_of_Troubles

I would advise to wait till it is complete, you can already find much information IG.

I imagine, and like the idea of let's say, a Medieval Louisiana:

swampland mangroves, willow and sycamore, indians in bird dresses, dangerous wildlife.

Le bon temps roule!

Visit the scenic Frygtmere!

What's the religious scene like? Which gods are worshiped out there? How are spellcasters of the clergy viewed, since magic seems to be taboo?

Burningoutbright wrote:

What's the religious scene like? Which gods are worshiped out there? How are spellcasters of the clergy viewed, since magic seems to be taboo?

I'm interested in this last bit as well. The land's stance on druidism is clear, but the phrase "witchcraft" used in one of the law signs can imply several different ideas, IC. Do Ostlanders think of witchcraft as making pacts with demons(BG, warlocks, etc), potion making and herbal sciences(druids, clerics), arcane magic, or just magic in general?

Arcane magic has a witchcraft stigma. Chauntea is a major religion in cities and smaller villages. Lathander, Helm, and Siamoephe see significant veneration in more populated areas.

Druids are viewed with significant distrust by many, for reasons which may or may not become clearer as the rest of the areas are added. Obviously it's not (easily) possible mechanically to prevent druid PCs from running through town with a menagerie in tow, but DMs could always decide to make life difficult for such characters.

Any information on the military strength of Raorik's regime?

Just a guess (since obviously I am not a DM) but I'd suspect that a place that has such a shortage of iron is going to have a hard time keeping any sizable force of infantry equipped for too long.

Of all the Ruathymi jarldoms, I believe Wiltun currently has the largest navy (Yoss can correct me if I'm wrong). It used to be Ottar (or Uttar), to the south of Ostland, but its navy has been somewhat neglected since the end of the war with Luskan, while Lord Wiltun has been quite enthusiastic about enlarging his.

The other two jarldoms on Ruathym are composed of little more than a few isolated settlements and probably couldn't come up with more than a half dozen ships between them.

Ottar still has the largest population of all the jarldoms and is the site of the First Axe's court, so it probably has the largest land force, though I'd guess Wiltun might have an edge in marines (dunno about that for sure). There would be some loosely-organized standing army, I think, plus a significant number of berserker/barbarian types.

Ostland's armed forces are minimal, comparatively. I'm just guessing, but perhaps a handful of warships (or two handfuls at most) and maybe a few hundred men, mostly Everwatch Knights and levies from the towns of Ostland (which would include some militia/guardsmen from Osthavn and Havskar). I doubt that Raorik would have any claim on levies from the War Knights, as I think they're there pretty much as independents and aren't really part of Ostland per se (though Raorik might like to think otherwise).

The lack of iron on the main island has also only really been an issue since the end of the war, more or less, and there's still enough lying around to be repaired and being imported that it hasn't taken a very deep bite out of the (downsized) Ruathymi armed forces. (If you look closely at the Osthavn guardsmen, and especially the Havskar militia when they're added, and you'll see a lot of rusty armour.) The common people, meanwhile, are making do with wooden pegs instead of nails, or bone for needles, etc. Give it another decade, or another war, though, and you'll see some serious problems.

Everything I say about Ostland is subject to contradiction or revision by DMs, who know the big picture.

Who are the Jarls of Ostland?
What are their words?
What are their sigils?
What are their titles?
Do they have any family?
What are their respective eye and hair color?
it possible to get a short description of their houses history?

In other words, what can Robert find out about them concerning their houses?

You can actually find most of the answers to that by exploring and talking to NPC's. Maybe not the sigil or their words, but I found out a ton concerning the history by simply exploring.

Honeydew Snugglepoof wrote:

Who are the Jarls of Ostland?
What are their words?
What are their sigils?
What are their titles?
Do they have any family?
What are their respective eye and hair color?
it possible to get a short description of their houses history?

In other words, what can Robert find out about them concerning their houses?

You can find out a lot IG about Lord Wiltun, of course. I think one of the Ostland NPCs will tell you a fair bit of history (though I can't remember if that one's in the module yet!

) and you can find out a little more by looking around. The only other jarls with any detail at this point are the Axe Raorik Bathrie of Ostland and the First Axe Thorden Lithyl of Ottar. Bathrie is definitely married.

Dark Immolation wrote:

Burningoutbright wrote:

What's the religious scene like? Which gods are worshiped out there? How are spellcasters of the clergy viewed, since magic seems to be taboo?

I'm interested in this last bit as well. The land's stance on druidism is clear, but the phrase "witchcraft" used in one of the law signs can imply several different ideas, IC. Do Ostlanders think of witchcraft as making pacts with demons(BG, warlocks, etc), potion making and herbal sciences(druids, clerics), arcane magic, or just magic in general?

I know that among Ruathymar (which is actually, if I remember an obscure passage from the Moonshae sourcebook correctly, what most Northmen refer to themselves as, since Ruathym is the oldest "kingdom" their people can truly lay claim to) warriors, the most common gods are Auril, Umberlee, and Tempus.

Arcane magic is viewed as womanly and deceitful (as is archery, it's a scorned art), druids are mistrusted, and the Ruathymar don't tend to have a terrible lot of clergymen amongst their ranks, and shamen are more common amongst them than clerics are. This is because shamen and priests are regarded as a significant deal lower than warriors are, in the social rankings of the Ruathymar - they respect power and strength, not piety. (They're vikings!)

One interesting superstition? People with red hair are thought to be "spirit-touched", and are commonly treated with some deal of suspicion as this can be either very bad, or very good.

As for military strength, well, I can't give you exact numbers on how much the Northmen on Ruathym can field, but the "most powerful kingdom of all Northlanders" is in the Moonshaes, and that particular kingdom can field some 50-60 longships and 2,000-2,500 men. So I'd say that an estimate of 5-15 longships and 200-500 soldiers per Jarldom would likely be fair. Assuming, of course, that all the Jarldoms are operating at full strength.

"The North: Guide to the Savage Frontier" wrote:

The island's largest settlement is Ruathym, a city of 5,000. Its economy is based on raiding, farming, mining, and shipbuilding. Aumark commands 500 warriors and has three 40-man longships and a single warship on loan from Holgerstead. Ruathym's previous navy was destroyed by Luskan.

Naming of the various parts of Ruathym is not entirely consistent in published lore, so I made an executive decision

to make the name of the largest jarldom Ottar (or Uttar) and its capital Holgerstead. Aumark Lithyl died not long after the war with Luskan and was succeeded by his son Thorden. There's a bit more info on Thorden in-game.

Xaviera wrote:

Ostland's armed forces are minimal, comparatively. I'm just guessing, but perhaps a handful of warships (or two handfuls at most) and maybe a few hundred men, mostly Everwatch Knights and levies from the towns of Ostland (which would include some militia/guardsmen from Osthavn and Havskar).

If Ottar had 3 warships and 500 men ten or so years ago then it might have more now, or it might still have the same (given the iron problem). Ostland probably has half of whatever Ottar does (which is consistent with what I said above), and the other two jarldoms on the island maybe 1-2 ships each. I don't know how many ships Wiltun has (half a dozen??), but I'd guess it's either in first or second place among all the jarldoms. I think the number of ships each has would be fairly common knowledge but I'm just guessing and you'd have to ask Yossarin for hard numbers.

Xaviera wrote:

Everything I say about Ostland is subject to contradiction or revision by DMs, who know the big picture.

Wiltun is referred to as having the largest navy in the entire region, rivaling or surpassing even that of Luskan, which is a major seafaring power. Luskan is described as having "an army of 300 spearmen and a navy of 19 dragonships." So I'd assume Wiltun is in that ballpark, and the other Jarldoms have significantly lower numbers.

At first I thought that number was unusually low. Then I remembered that a dragonship has a crew of 40 men, and the wiki says each ship has a contingent of 70 archers in addition. So that's...

300 Spearmen + 760 Sailors (probably light infantry) + 1330 Archers = ~2400 men. For a population of 14,000? Thats not so bad, and thats just the standing army - they'd probably raise a significant levy + bring mages and mercenaries aboard for any real fight.

So right now our conjecture puts the strength of Wiltun at between 500 men and 5-6 ships, and 2500 men and 15-20 ships.

You're probably looking at the higher end of that range, just from what I have gathered since I've been playing in Wiltun for so long. Especially given the Jarl's constant increase in his navy, conscription of citizens yadda yadda.

Lizzie wrote:

Wiltun is referred to as having the largest navy in the entire region, rivaling or surpassing even that of Luskan, which is a major seafaring power. Luskan is described as having "an army of 300 spearmen and a navy of 19 dragonships." So I'd assume Wiltun is in that ballpark, and the other Jarldoms have significantly lower numbers.

Correction: Wiltun has the largest navy on the isle of Ruathym, not in the entire region of the Trackless Sea. Luskan technically has the largest fleets, but they are spread far and wide, and Cordor's navy dominates the waters around Amia and have a reputation for sinking pirates without mercy.

I was going off of the loading-screen blurb that says something like how Wiltun "keeps peace and order in the region with the largest navy around" or some such thing. But I suppose that's neither especially specific nor an especially authoritative source.

Yes, it is generally accepted that a Cordorian fleet could smoke a Wiltun fleet and a Luskan fleet using tactics they've been using for ages (they don't have much else to do way out in the middle of the ocean but perfect their navy, which is their only line of significant defense against exterior attack). A Wiltun fleet would give a Luskan fleet a definite run for its money.

But if the Luskans put the whole of their naval attention on that portion of the Trackless Sea instead of spreading it all around the whole sea and up and down the Sword Coast, it would almost require Cordor's navy to join Wiltun's navy in order to put up a fight.

Edanius wrote:

Isn't.. "ost" swedish for cheese? So it'd be "Cheeseland"?

"Oh, we've had a keep in Cheeseland for ages! Lot's o' Munsters there."

*Edit: Sorry for the fairly unrelated post.

Being a Swede and all I can confirm it is indeed a word for cheese. However it is also old word for east

And it's on the eastern side of the island of Ruathym. Coincidence? I think not!

Yossarin wrote:

Yes, it is generally accepted that a Cordorian fleet could smoke a Wiltun fleet and a Luskan fleet using tactics they've been using for ages (they don't have much else to do way out in the middle of the ocean but perfect their navy, which is their only line of significant defense against exterior attack). A Wiltun fleet would give a Luskan fleet a definite run for its money.

Cordor has things to do like use ships to move heavy tonnage of cargo and other things. Wiltun literally has NOTHING out in the islands to do but hunt pirates and luskans and flex naval muscle. I fail to see how this defaults to Cordor winning over Wiltun, Cordor is a merchant society, Wiltun is a naval military society.

Quite apart, I'm now confused as hell about a number of htings since what I've seen said here flies in the face of a lot of stuff I've seen IG for the past eight months, namely that IG I'm told, by staff, that Wiltuns fleet has frigates and sloops, which are decent sized warships, yet here its saying they are longships and dragonships, which are smaller and much less effective. And that we have four frigates under construction too, though that came word of mouth through players in Wiltun not sure if that came from a DM or not. I do agree and understand that Luskan is a much larger naval power than Ruathym, but its scattered and isn't really a "fleet" per se given its a bunch of pirates loosely allied with a handful of pirate houses, it doesn't operate like a military fleet, from what I'vebeen told and read in the forgotten realms stuff I know.

Also, this came to me as a second thought, but I've also been told IG by two DMs for sure that I remember, and maybe one or two others, and I know its come up in RP a few times, and it also says on the loading screens, but Caraigh is supposed to be about 2/3rds the size of Amia, but unlike Amia is mostly unexplored wooded wilderness (hence why Wiltun is having a field day with lumber production there) yet here you say its small, and I know on one of the server maps it is shown as pretty small...I'm so really confused now with whats going on. There appears to be a huge disconnect between what I've been told by staff and been RP'ed with players and staff for the past almost year and whats being said here.

I only ask for clarification because theres a number of things I've been doing/trying to do that are based off what I previousl thought was the situation in Wiltun based off RP with Nivo as the Jarl and others and with the other Wardens and a few other DMs doing odds and ends and if its not how I thought it was then I need to know because a lot of those things become unpursuable.

DolphinRacer wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

Yes, it is generally accepted that a Cordorian fleet could smoke a Wiltun fleet and a Luskan fleet using tactics they've been using for ages (they don't have much else to do way out in the middle of the ocean but perfect their navy, which is their only line of significant defense against exterior attack). A Wiltun fleet would give a Luskan fleet a definite run for its money.

Cordor has things to do like use ships to move heavy tonnage of cargo and other things. Wiltun literally has NOTHING out in the islands to do but hunt pirates and luskans and flex naval muscle. I fail to see how this defaults to Cordor winning over Wiltun, Cordor is a merchant society, Wiltun is a naval military society.

I'll elaborate a bit more. Cordor's navy is both older than Wiltun's navy (this you can find out from the trophies in the keep) and does the exact same thing that Wiltun's navy does (fighting off pirates), but on a broader expanse, as Cordor's navy escorts those very same merchant ships throughout many ports in the Trackless Sea. Cordor's Navy has to be strong in order to preserve their position as "Gem of the Trackless Sea". Their navy is massive, and a lot of the sailors don't see home for sometimes a year or more at a time as their routes may have them escorting merchant ships all the way to the Sword Coast and up to the Frozenfar and back down again, tagging Brog, Forrstakkr, and the Moonshaes along the way.

Does this mean I don't think Wiltun could surpass Cordor in naval might? I don't doubt they could. Especially if they were to design something like, oh, a new kind of naval vessel, putting their war experience to the test...

Regarding my question long ago with the stigma verses "witchcraft," would someone overtly practicing Arcane magic in say Osthavn be pestered by commoners, immediately confronted by guards, or what? I realize this can hugely vary based upon the DM being there to respond as NPC's. I just mean generally, like how generally, you could say someone casting Animate Dead in the middle of Kohlingen is going to face confrontation from NPC's.

I guess what I'm asking is from general knowledge, are they the burn-you-at-the-stake sort, or more quietly-spread-rumors-behind-your-back sort.

I can tell you in Wiltun your risk fine or arrest at the hands of the Wardens and possibly death at the hands of the Regulars. I can't imagine Osthavn is much better but I'll let the staff speak on that.

Reread your post. Osthavn is definitely the direct action type of people. I almost started a war just having a conversation with the Everwatch KNights in the aftermath of a DM event, I can't imagine if you cast bad or even good juju right in their faces they'd just mutter and spread dirty rumors about you.

Is there a certain DM overseeing Ostland, that I could PM a few questions to? There's a character concept I'm contemplating, which I suspect will require a bit of collaboration.

I believe there are two, so pick your poison! Manarethan or Ego.

I'd be happy to answer some questions for you, feel free to PM me.

Just PM'd to both of you. Thanks for any help

Xaviera wrote:

As noted, Ostland is on the east coast of the large island of Ruathym, between Amia and the mainland, to the north of the islands of Wiltun and Caraigh, according to this map.

MAP LINK BROKEN! WÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ!

On a serious note - can we get our amia maps updated? I really want something real to refer to.

viewtopic.php?f=111&t=55961
Here are the old maps.

Also I'm still a bit confused by something. Caraigh is, according to the maps we have access to now, very small, but I recall a map I once saw somewhere on the forums that had it almost as big as Amia, and one of the random tidbit information things that pops up in the loading window does state it is almost as big as Amia but that its only major settlement is Ceyren's Mill, and additionally I have had DMs confirm that...but I'm just curious if most of the rest of the island is heavy wood or if there is intention to put anymore Caraigh areas in game to reflect its size if it really is that big.

I don't think we've ever really even established Amia's size. The maps posted in R&L thus couldn't really reflect the island's real dimensions. The current map suggesting it's larger than Ruathym and almost as large as the biggest island of the Moonshaes may be a bit of an exaggeration (though so is our population size). Ruathym is about 100 miles (160 km) from north to south, and I had always imagined Amia to be closer to 50 (80 km).

But that doesn't answer your question about Caraigh, of course.

Amia, is to my knowledge, the largest island out of all of them in terms of surface area, Ruathym is pretty big north to south but I'm given to believe its not very wide east to west by comparison, though I may be wrong....but yeah I kinda want to know more about Caraigh.

If Amia really was that large and populous, it would have had a documented effect on world history for at least two centuries. It hasn't. It's supposed to be a shit hole on the edge of the known world, with one city and a few villages and keeps. People always assume too much about it (and themselves), IMO. Small is beautiful.

It comes down to what we want to say about travel times, I guess. Does it take over a day for a caravan to go from Kohlingen to Cordor? Given the terrain and the fact that they're pulled by mules, it would probably take some 10 hours to even cross 100 km. That isn't very well reflected in how we travel in game.

But yes, Ruathym is not very wide so Amia's surface might very well be equal or greater.

IronAngel wrote:

It's supposed to be a shit hole on the edge of the known world, with one city and a few villages and keeps.

Not the impression given, and since I never found official instances on such (being a shit hole etc...) I go with what my characters see. They see a land so rich you can gather over 1000 gold coins from a simple adventure in the sewers, and Demon Lords, Vampires, Dragons and Gods investing quite a bit of their efforts into having domination over it partially or otherwise, and very interested in the many powerful beings that reside here, as well as very powerful artfacts. I dont play any characters with the need or will to measure the island, but telling them it is a shit hole in the edge of the world would cause them to laugh, despite it being correct or not out of the game.

IronAngel wrote:

People always assume too much about it (and themselves), IMO.

Agreed there. And others too.

http://www.amiaworld.net/images/worldmape.jpg

http://www.amiaworld.net/images/coast.png

Where, on these maps, would you suggest ostland is located?

Xaviera wrote:

As noted, Ostland is on the east coast of the large island of Ruathym, between Amia and the mainland, to the north of the islands of Wiltun and Caraigh, according to this map.

See that map is why I am so damned confused. Everything I've been told by staff and seen RP'd has Caraigh roughly the size of Amia, yet the map shows it to be barely twice the size of Wiltun (not accurate if you take IG areas into account) and not even an eighth the size of Ruathym.

I think the notion that Caraigh is the same size as Amia is kind of absurd, actually. An island that size that's not just habitable, but fairly well bursting with exploitable resources, would have way more people on it than just the few hundred that live in the Mill and around the south docks. I know that's a thing that's been said for a long time and by well-informed people, but it doesn't really make sense to me.

Ditto, I never quite understood it myself. The only reason I could think of is maybe it was only settled relatively recently and the whole biznass with the rift and undead and taint and crap stunted the development.

That's right I said biznass

Ostland!

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