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Xaviera
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 Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 14:36 PM |
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Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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MoshingChris wrote: if everything in the +4 bin for instance always hit the 25k cap it would become a false economy again because everyone would continue to hit the +4 bin to maximise potential income. If things in that bin are worth 20 - 30k however it means that the economy reshapes itself to be more balanced. By removing the extreme disaparity between the low bin and the high bin we remove the disaparity in income with regards to new and mid level characters. I'm not sure that I'm understanding this fully. If items in the +4 bin are always valued at 30K+ and items in the +3 bin are valued at, say, 15-25K, then, given that merchants typically pay 2/3 of the 'list' price, people are always going to go for the higher bin to maximize their profits. I'm not objecting to the change, I'm just trying to understand what effect it will have. Really, it just means that people who do farm the higher bins wont make money as quickly because they're not getting as much per sale as they did before, right? Whereas those who farm the lower bins will make money as fast as they ever did (assuming they aren't selling in Uhm or some backwater place like that). Now, if you can routinely find items worth 30K in the +3 or even +2 bins (clearly I have no clue) then folks will expend less effort and stick to lower areas because +4 just isnt worth the hassle unless you're looking for xp or uberloot. Brown Blur wrote: 'Potion Miscibility' That never stopped anything. How many players did you know who would guzzle potion after potion just hoping for the 00 that would make one of the effects permanent?  _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 15:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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You miss the point. The lootbins get overhauled at the same time. The elimination of the disaparity comes from the fact that the difference in value between items in the low bin and the high bin was on average between 25 and fifty thousand gold that disparity is now effectively capped at 25 thousand and will potentially be lower as the overhaul of the lootbins progresses to the next stage.
It meant that whilst you were level three you still paid the same amount for potions as the level 25, but he only needed one loot drop to pay for an five hunting trips with a full buff potion suite, imp invisi scrolls and haste potions whilst at level three you needed one to cover the cost of 1 with a misty potion and a few buff pots whilst having to also balance getting new gear
I can't really comment any further on what may or may not happen next.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Tomato Sword
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 15:44 PM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2011
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MoshingChris wrote: I think the pricing for the housing is perfectly justified and balanced with regards to this change. If you've got a faction of ten who are renting a large house it's 25k each a week or one maximal loot to continue renting that house.
If your an individual who has a large house for a million.
Sucks to be you. I totally understand this change but I think the housing value needs to reflect it @ x @ I was drowning to find the time to make the rent before not being amazing-solo-build extraordinaire and I don't think the housing system, a thing used for RP purposes, should be scaled at the price for people who have nothing to do with their lives but grind, grind, grind, and grind some more.
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 16:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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Xaviera wrote: Brown Blur wrote: 'Potion Miscibility' That never stopped anything. How many players did you know who would guzzle potion after potion just hoping for the 00 that would make one of the effects permanent? I was thinking more the explode-y type of miscibility...... ...but I guess the DM's aren't going to implement that when all they do is 'frown upon' the sort of players these economic measures are presumably intended to curb....
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 16:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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Tomato Sword wrote: MoshingChris wrote: I think the pricing for the housing is perfectly justified and balanced with regards to this change. If you've got a faction of ten who are renting a large house it's 25k each a week or one maximal loot to continue renting that house.
If your an individual who has a large house for a million.
Sucks to be you. I totally understand this change but I think the housing value needs to reflect it @ x @ I was drowning to find the time to make the rent before not being amazing-solo-build extraordinaire and I don't think the housing system, a thing used for RP purposes, should be scaled at the price for people who have nothing to do with their lives but grind, grind, grind, and grind some more. I agree completely. No reason for rents to stay so high now we have this present change as a 'gold-sink' for the uber-rich.
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 16:44 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Also, how are areas going to fluctuate? I'm not sure what it's based on. People will stick to the high merchants, so those areas will get traffic while the low merchants won't. Assuming it's based on traffic and use, I don't see them ever changing.
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 16:46 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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They will change. Not your business how or why.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 18:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Tomato Sword wrote: I totally understand this change but I think the housing value needs to reflect it @ x @
I was drowning to find the time to make the rent before not being amazing-solo-build extraordinaire and I don't think the housing system, a thing used for RP purposes, should be scaled at the price for people who have nothing to do with their lives but grind, grind, grind, and grind some more. I have zero sympathy for you in this btw, since your complaint is based on an epic who is an alt character. If you stopped dividing your time between characters I am sure this would not be so unaffordable.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Tomato Sword
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 18:12 PM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2011
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 19:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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"Ugh"
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 19:09 PM |
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Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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as I do love my pile of gold to throw at my island when needed, the change will sure help the job system.
lowering gold comming in will make the gold the NPCs pay and value the job system stuff alot better, befor it was stupid.
NPC would value the stuff at like 50 gold a log, you spend 20mins collecting logs to get 10 of the things and he will give you 500 gold, befor you could have shanked 2mobs of goblins for about the same amount in 30sec.
even when PCs were offering twice as much, why would anyone sell you something that took them near half a hour to collect for a amount of gold you get in 5mins, ontop when gold had next to no value.
all in all, not a bad change, hope to see some nice lootbin changes.... MORE YELLOW LOOT!
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 19:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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corypx wrote: MORE YELLOW LOOT! Yus! Moar random property please! <3_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Zaldra5
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:27 PM |
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Joined: 11 May 2010
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So boss farmers will farm more and people that casually hunt mobs won't now, so its the same issue now just with a different label on it. except you need to waste half an hour looking for the best place to sell, i would of took the time to make hunting in a group better then solo then this
_________________  Main Characters
Fey'ana Luelven - The Arch Druidess of Fire
Asparas the Faun
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Zaldra5 wrote: So boss farmers will farm more and people that casually hunt mobs won't now, so its the same issue now just with a different label on it. except you need to waste half an hour looking for the best place to sell, i would of took the time to make hunting in a group better then solo then this Missing the point and the entire forest.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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merdock77
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:42 PM |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
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MoshingChris wrote: For the loot in general if you try and sell a hoarite spear to a merchant with a cap of 25k you will get 25k for it. You will no longer get 110k for it. Now at the moment the per item cap at its highest is 30 thousand, this is subject to adjustment depending on whether or not the team feels it appropriate say 1 high valued loot should still be worth 10 potions of heal for instance.
What it also does is better allow us to speculate on which towns do better and which towns do worse across various regions! Just some random thoughts to go to the next level based on the number of items already turned in. 1. Could the value of loot be dynamic based on the number of times a particular item(s) has been turned in over the past week/year/month. For Example, +4 Ring of regeneration is sold to a vender for xxx amount. The count for that particular item goes up and so does the count for other items in that "class" of items. 2. Counts organized by type of item for each vender. 3. Counts are organized by type of item for entire Amia world. 4. When some turns something in, it has a more dramatic effect on that particular Merchant in reducing his buy rate, but also slightly reduces the buy rate for the entire Amia world since there is another one out there. 5. Purging of items counts can be based on a weekly/monthly purge cycle. Every xxx number of minutes, the purge script kick off deleting the item count for and over XXXX days old. 6. When a player buys a particular item, that causes the count of the item to decrease. Thus increasing what a Merchant will pay for that item and a slight increase Amia wide. 7. The rate increase/decrease on each Merchant buy will be dependent on class of the loot. Lower tier loot bins will have practically no impact than a high/Epic tier lootbin. Which a high level /Epic item should decrease significantly in value every time each one is sold to a Merchant. Epic Loot should be practically one of a kind thing... If you have too many out there, it looses it's appeal. 8. server reboot does not erase the item counts in the database. What this causes is every time a player sells something the buy rate will decrease for the next merchant purchase. The Economy will be based more on player interaction. If a player discovers that a particular item is a high value and tries to farm it after every reboot, that player will see the value decrease significantly over time and discourages that player from continuously farm that item. How to do this? Keep track all of this on the back end in a database. A bonus is that there will be no DM intervention on changing prices and you could run a query to see what items are being sold where. My two cents for the day.
_________________
Howling Mad Merdock!
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Doli BloodAxe - Axeman of Clangeddin
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:48 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It's a nice post, but you can't farm specific items so that concern is mostly unwarranted. Thank you for taking a more well thought out approach though.
We do use a similar system to that for job system resources already, though.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Zamtrack
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Location: Land of Enchantment
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On the topic of loot bin overhauls - Could we drastically decrease the drop rate of BoT Pages and other worthless scrolls of low level spells -nobody- uses. If I get another worthless dead drop of my eighth Darkfire page I may implode.
Please and thank you.
If you're already doing this or it's already been mentioned, cudos.
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merdock77
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 20:59 PM |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
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TormakSaber wrote: It's a nice post, but you can't farm specific items so that concern is mostly unwarranted. Thank you for taking a more well thought out approach though.
You missed this sentence, "The count for that particular item goes up and so does the count for other items in that "class" of items."
_________________
Howling Mad Merdock!
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Doli BloodAxe - Axeman of Clangeddin
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 21:00 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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No, I saw it. It's part of the package. It's not worth doing, it won't have any sort of noticeable effect and is a lot of redundancy for no reason.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 21:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Zamtrack wrote: On the topic of loot bin overhauls - Could we drastically decrease the drop rate of BoT Pages and other worthless scrolls of low level spells -nobody- uses. If I get another worthless dead drop of my eighth Darkfire page I may implode.
Please and thank you.
If you're already doing this or it's already been mentioned, cudos. They have exactly the same drop rate as everything else in the bin. You're unlucky.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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merdock77
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 21:09 PM |
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Joined: 17 Apr 2011
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TormakSaber wrote: No, I saw it. It's part of the package. It's not worth doing, it won't have any sort of noticeable effect and is a lot of redundancy for no reason. Read more about Dynamic AI and take a database class or two... then we can talk... Thanks for shooting it down without fully understanding the logic behind. I guess next you'll shoot down path finding and other known AI algorithms?
_________________
Howling Mad Merdock!
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Doli BloodAxe - Axeman of Clangeddin
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Zamtrack
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 21:12 PM |
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Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Location: Land of Enchantment
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TormakSaber wrote: You're unlucky. Painfully so it seems.
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Tomato Sword
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 21:13 PM |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2011
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Zamtrack wrote: TormakSaber wrote: You're unlucky. Painfully so it seems. Don't worry! You are not alone! xDD
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 22:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Well, this is, in and of itself, a good change. I took the liberty of trying out a couple lowbie characters to see how it works in practice.
Mages and their ilk are unaffected. They're not so heavily dependent on gear or consumables.
Fighter types that rely on potion chugging are hit kinda hard.
Classes that have a built in gold sink already (re: Arcane Archer) are SOL. By level 7, my AA was reduced to only using the job system because they can't afford potions, kits, or arrows with their 46gp. The job system might get more use now, but I fear an influx of herbalists whose goods are probably the most valuable.
Now, I'm fully aware that there are more changes coming that will help even things out later. I simply think you're starting at the wrong end. The disparity is going to widen before it narrows.
These so-called useful, but less valuable items Mosh mentioned are pretty good...if your character uses a battleaxe or a scythe (because those are the only loots I've found besides heal kits, which are better loots now, and BoT pages). If not, well, you ID something for 100 gold and get to sell it for 122 gold. The 1d8 fire vs orcs arrows are neat too, until level 6-7 when orcs aren't worth any xp. They won't help against the Bloodmoons, who are half-orc.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Polris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 22:35 PM |
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Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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I haven't really noticed a big change honestly. At the end of the grind, when you take your junk to the vendor, you notice that 80 percent of the loot you have collected is worth under 25 thousand so you're not loosing anything there. I mean, how often do you get an inventory full of loot that's worth a 100 thousand a piece? From my experience, not often. I even sold all my stuff at a 20k shop and still managed to get a bunch of money.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 22:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Polris wrote: I haven't really noticed a big change honestly. At the end of the grind, when you take your junk to the vendor, you notice that 80 percent of the loot you have collected is worth under 25 thousand so you're not loosing anything there. I mean, how often do you get an inventory full of loot that's worth a 100 thousand a piece? From my experience, not often. I even sold all my stuff at a 20k shop and still managed to get a bunch of money. Ahhhh, thank you! Finally someone that's actually experienced things instead of looking at words on paper and trying to choke us for it. People like Derk, who, for the 4th time are making me repeat the fact that NOTHING AT ALL HAS CHANGED EXCEPT FOR THE HIGHEST OF HIGH IN THE +4 BIN. P.s. Basic arrows are 1gp. You also get this coo lskill calle d"enchant Arrow" which lets you make FREE MAGIC ARROWS. That thing no one used because.... oh right, they could just buy magic arrows like it was no big deal HEY COOL WE MADE A SKILL USEFUL. I'm using caps because I'm irritated tha no one's paying attention.t
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Silvarus
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 22:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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I fully support this.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 22:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Try killing some kobolds, Tormak. Then look at the loot you get. Then tell me nothing's changed. You making me defend my comment that you didn't even bother to read makes me seem like I'm whining. I'm not. I offered a practical look at how things work for low-level characters as things are now.
Enchant arrow costs scrolls of around 1000gp for each stack (unless you happen to miraculously find a bow with unlimited ammo, then it only costs one scroll). Using a Magic Ammo bag costs 94gp for the same stack. Oh, that's Imbue Arrow. Enchant Arrow does a whopping 1 damage at AA 1-2. It doesn't help anything at all when some things have Stoneskin.
If you read back through the economy threads, you'll see that this -latest- change was something I suggested. I'm all for fixing things. The whole gist of my post is that it's attacking the problem from the wrong direction -first-. The rich people can still get rich with the changes. The poor low-level characters are the ones struggling right now, which is only going to hurt them longer.
Stop making me sound like I'm complaining when I'm not.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 23:01 PM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: Enchant arrow costs scrolls of around 1000gp for each stack (unless you happen to miraculously find a bow with unlimited ammo, then it only costs one scroll). Using a Magic Ammo bag costs 94gp for the same stack. Oh, that's Imbue Arrow. Enchant Arrow does a whopping 1 damage at AA 1-2. It doesn't help anything at all when some things have Stoneskin. Imbue, Enchant, you knew what I meant, this is pointless nitpicking. You're an *Arcane* archer. Cast the spell. Not my fault you're relying on scrolls. You're only proving my point: 94 gold is not a lot for a stack of magic arrows. Less than one gold an arrow. I already know the loot you get, I helped make it, put it in and have been keeping tabs on people hunting. They're fine. God forbid you not be able to use nothing but magic arrows every encounter at level 5, I guess? Use a normal arrow, save the magic ones until you have the money to bankroll it. Yu are complaining, and you are complaining for no reason.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 23:02 PM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Btw you can save a lot of money by investing once in some certain items instead of always buying potions. This doesn't go for -all- potions but quite a few.
Yes it makes it a bit harder for the lower levels... but imho thats how it should be. You are a young, unexperienced new adventurer... you try to make your luck and fortune with your rusty weapon... killing silly little things with the same crappy weapons and equipment as you to get better and to slowly improve your wealth. I rather like it.
And yeah for many items you still get the usual price, just the uber-killer priced items are capped which imho should never have gotten there in the first place. 100.000+ gold for 1 item in a regualr loot? yeah that has to break economy big time.
_________________  
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 23:11 PM |
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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TormakSaber wrote: Quote: Enchant arrow costs scrolls of around 1000gp for each stack (unless you happen to miraculously find a bow with unlimited ammo, then it only costs one scroll). Using a Magic Ammo bag costs 94gp for the same stack. Oh, that's Imbue Arrow. Enchant Arrow does a whopping 1 damage at AA 1-2. It doesn't help anything at all when some things have Stoneskin. Imbue, Enchant, you knew what I meant, this is pointless nitpicking. You're an *Arcane* archer. Cast the spell. Not my fault you're relying on scrolls. You're only proving my point: 94 gold is not a lot for a stack of magic arrows. Less than one gold an arrow. I already know the loot you get, I helped make it, put it in and have been keeping tabs on people hunting. They're fine. God forbid you not be able to use nothing but magic arrows every encounter at level 5, I guess? Use a normal arrow, save the magic ones until you have the money to bankroll it. Yu are complaining, and you are complaining for no reason. You're completely overlooking my point. Casters are unaffected when they should have been the first ones hit. But okay. I'll let you think I'm complaining.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Ulir
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 3:42 AM |
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Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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If casters had to buy spell components for each spell that required such.. Like whenever you cast a spell, a certain amount of gold is drained, symbolizing using the materials for said spell. Not all spells have material components, though. Not sure why I said that, hehe.
But I digress. I like the system so far. More realism is always good. My level 5 character hasn't seen much change so far. Probably because he is doing quests mainly to get started.
_________________ 
Last edited by Ulir on Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:28 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 4:22 AM |
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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I tried DnD Online a while back and thought it neat how every spellcaster had to buy one certain component for their spells. It doesn't need to be bat shit for fireball and such. Just something to signify as you said. I'd be all for that, and I play primarily spellcasters.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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psycho
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 5:32 AM |
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Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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Went through the whole Fire Giant Lair.
Got 9 or 10 loot.
45 k profit in all. Was in a shop that offers alot.
One hour for 45 k.
Luckily, as I caster my char spent only around 3k in items.
Those fighter types have a tough time making gold!
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:16 AM |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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psycho wrote: Went through the whole Fire Giant Lair.
Got 9 or 10 loot.
45 k profit in all. Was in a shop that offers alot.
One hour for 45 k.
Luckily, as I caster my char spent only around 3k in items.
Those fighter types have a tough time making gold! Sounds like it's working as intended, because if you're farming spires for loot, fighter-types only need that many potions to... farm spires for loot.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:27 AM |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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am I misreading Serb, or are you implying that fighters should never make a profit?
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:31 AM |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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What I'm saying is if you're farming Spires, you're part of the problem. If you're not, you should still be making enough to cover your expenses unless you're badly mismanaging your potions. The fact that casters don't need as many costly supplies is kind of unfortunate but they're only the cost of potions ahead of the curve anyway.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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psycho
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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I don't quite grasp what you mean Serberis...
Spires is tier 4 loot as are many other epic places...
How is "traveling through Spires for loot" a problem?
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Because previously, a single run would gain you 100ks (as in, 100k, 200k, 500k or whatever, if you got less than that you were quite unlucky) in gold. Pretty much everyone in the epic loot market does it and that's why the prices for high-end gear are so incredibly high. They're probably still going to stay high for a while, as people shuffle gold between one rich person and another trading epic loot, but it should slowly trickle down into the lucky PC who obtains nifty epic loot, or into supplies, or into rent, or into other goldsinks (like more roleplay-centric stuff... for example, assassinations are very expensive, job system stuff as traded between PCs, such as paintings, also get exorbitantly high prices).
Spires farming was an infinite source of gold. That was breaking the economy. Now the tide has been stemmed.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:45 AM |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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How do you propose people obtain any money then if running dungeons is "bad"?
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 6:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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What I've said only really applies for farming +4 lootbins for gold. If you're high enough level to be doing that (ie epic) then you really shouldn't need much money except for acquiring epic loot, which should eventually become more affordable once the economy adjusts.
You should still be able to get enough money for supplies without breaking the economy, if you're lower level. If not, if something goes wrong (tough hunt can drain a lot of money for scrolls/heal pots - do try to avoid these but sometimes they happen), the job system provides a decent amount of coin. If you don't have very productive jobs, you can always hunt in lower level areas. It won't take much loot to recover your expenses: my goblin is regularly forced to run through CR~2 mobs to get anywhere without portaling, and the incidental loot goes a fair way to covering the cost of potions and healkits.
Gear upgrades may become more difficult, as you need to budget to figure out how much hunting you'll need to do to recover. You mostly just need to be more careful when upgrading. Or mingle with players.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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corypx
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 7:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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serbiris wrote: What I've said only really applies for farming +4 lootbins for gold. If you're high enough level to be doing that (ie epic) then you really shouldn't need much money except for acquiring epic loot, which should eventually become more affordable once the economy adjusts. it wont. serbiris wrote: the job system provides a decent amount of coin. not really. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 7:38 AM |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Corypx wrote: serbiris wrote: the job system provides a decent amount of coin. not really. It depends. Herbalist doles out oodles. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 7:42 AM |
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Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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I think this was overkill, which hurts the wrong people.
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Just lurking about!
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 7:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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corypx wrote: serbiris wrote: What I've said only really applies for farming +4 lootbins for gold. If you're high enough level to be doing that (ie epic) then you really shouldn't need much money except for acquiring epic loot, which should eventually become more affordable once the economy adjusts. it wont. You're welcome to elaborate if you have a reason to believe otherwise. corypx wrote: serbiris wrote: the job system provides a decent amount of coin. not really. In the case of several jobs and their assorted chains, yes they do. More than enough with only a little bit of work to cover the cost of supplies. There are a few that don't, and in that case you still have recourse.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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corypx
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 8:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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serbiris wrote: You're welcome to elaborate if you have a reason to believe otherwise. because gold has no real use to the people who have the epic loot outside buying potion to hunt more epic loot,buying epic loot from people who take gold for them for some reason, or when a DM shows up as a NPC and more or less asks for donations for a town or puts a price tag on a project. serbiris wrote: In the case of several jobs and their assorted chains, yes they do. More than enough with only a little bit of work to cover the cost of supplies. There are a few that don't, and in that case you still have recourse. for the amount of time invested to do them, you could have made much more killing monsters and vendering the trash even more so when your job needs you to get supplies from other jobs, given then you need to find players who take the time to do the job system because standing infront of a tree clicking it once every 2mins for the next half hour is no fun.... then when they offer you like 50-100 gold for each object.... you could have ran around stabing monsters and gotten loot selling for 10 times that. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 8:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Ulir wrote: If casters had to buy spell components for each spell that required such.. Like whenever you cast a spell, a certain amount of gold is drained, symbolizing using the materials for said spell. Not all spells have material components, though. Not sure why I said that, hehe. One easy fix for this is charging for what every caster requires most and when he isn't using it, its only because he has a full party so the benefit of him being a caster is shared amongst those he's partying with.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 8:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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corypx wrote: serbiris wrote: You're welcome to elaborate if you have a reason to believe otherwise. because gold has no real use to the people who have the epic loot outside buying potion to hunt more epic loot,buying epic loot from people who take gold for them for some reason, or when a DM shows up as a NPC and more or less asks for donations for a town or puts a price tag on a project. That's still affected by the trickle-down I described. corypx wrote: serbiris wrote: In the case of several jobs and their assorted chains, yes they do. More than enough with only a little bit of work to cover the cost of supplies. There are a few that don't, and in that case you still have recourse. for the amount of time invested to do them, you could have made much more killing monsters and vendering the trash even more so when your job needs you to get supplies from other jobs, given then you need to find players who take the time to do the job system because standing infront of a tree clicking it once every 2mins for the next half hour is no fun.... then when they offer you like 50-100 gold for each object.... you could have ran around stabing monsters and gotten loot selling for 10 times that. As I said, there are several jobs with a much higher yield than what you describe, so your categorical statement is still incorrect. If you have a job which doesn't pay so well, you still have recourse. And if said recourse is in fact sufficiently profitable then there's no problem.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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QPR
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 9:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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People complain too much. I recently started a new character myself, something as un-soloable as a ranged fighter/rogue who by principle do not even carry a melee weapon. Sure, I no longer got gold for every kill, and the loot had gone down in value, but that made the experience all the better. Now I actually had to plan and wait before buying those potions, or wistfully think about the day I could afford a +1 composite shortbow and ammo bags. No to mention the joy when a kobold dropped a gusher dagger or the drone flail. Heck, now the job system made sense. "I am short on cash... I'll wait for nightfall and do burglary because that is actually worth it now".
The changes are great. Period. Even for newly created, low level characters. And it encourages party-adventuring, as well as the job system, both for gold and xp income.
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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Galenson
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Posted: Sat, Mar 24 2012, 10:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.
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Give it time to settle.
It'll either grow on you, or you'll get used to it.
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Plays:
"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."
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