AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Dwarven Paladins?

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QPR

Posted: Thu, Mar 15 2012, 16:58 PM

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Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway

As the topic states, I am curious as to what role paladins play in dwarven society. Do they even exist? And if they do, what are the main differences between a dwarven and a human paladin for instance?

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Yossarin

Posted: Thu, Mar 15 2012, 17:04 PM

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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Stature.

Polris

Posted: Thu, Mar 15 2012, 17:23 PM

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Joined: 05 Feb 2010

Paladins are natural dwrven defenders. Even the patron of the defenders, Gorm Gulthyn, has Paladin levels. So their role would be close to that of the defenders in my opinion. Both having to be Lawful also backs this up. But in general I'd consider them to be champions of their chosen deity, striving to follow and promote the deities dogma.

Dark Immolation

Posted: Thu, Mar 15 2012, 20:47 PM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

Pretty much what Polris said. They'd fit into the same role as a DD, but with a highly religious overtone and backing. Probably gives them some more interaction with the clergy of their community.

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Lord-Hadeis

Posted: Thu, Mar 15 2012, 23:15 PM

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Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Netherlands, Schoonhoven

Just call yourself one, problem solved

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Fri, Mar 16 2012, 13:19 PM

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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Paladins seem like a very human class to me. In that the class itself was created by humans, to serve human gods. While other races are more then welcome be paladins, it feels like a paladin of a human god is more likely then a paladin of a dwarven god.

Its actually a really good question. While a Dwarven paladin would have its place in dwarven society, I can't see it be a tradiational role such as a divine champion or dwarven defender would have. Rather, its probably more likely that the concept was exported from human society, and imported into dwarven society, due to its divine connections and responsability. Still, I think its safe to say that one is probably more likely to see clerics, divine champions and dwarven defenders in dwarven religion and culture, then a paladin, and their place in society would be similar to the place of any warrior, just without the all important threads of tradation laid down by dwarven history, and the classes roles in dwarven history.

I could easily see a dwarf taking up the postion of paladin to suffer some conflicts of tradiational racial values vs duties and beliefs of a paladin. Its entirely likely the type of dwarf to become a paladin, may feel out of place in dwarven society, and seek their answers by taking up a tradiationally non-dwarven role.

All this is conjecture in the end however. Silents the resident short fat expert.

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Remal

Posted: Fri, Mar 16 2012, 15:07 PM

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Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Location: Elsewhen

Only real problem with dwarves becoming paladins is their general personality setup. They are tradition respecting, law abiding workaholics ready to work for the good of the society. This might make them look like good paladin prospects, but they are too pragmatic to be a good paladin. Also most of them ain't quite posterchild of charisma nor the "holier then thou" attitude most paladins tend to exhibit. Also, their racial hatred towards goblinoids, orcs and giants might go against realtive open-mindedness and mercy paladins tend to show.

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QPR

Posted: Fri, Mar 16 2012, 16:00 PM

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Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway

For some strange reason, "paladin" is not something I usually associate with "open minded". At least not in FR.

serbiris

Posted: Fri, Mar 16 2012, 16:19 PM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia

Lore-wise there's nothing that demands paladins be human-specific, aside from the fact that the class is very closely tied with human culture and that doesn't mesh 100% with other races (and also previous editions making paladins a human-only class). Here in the civilised world of 3.0/3.5 (hahah), a paladin has to be:

1. Chosen by a god to be a paladin
2. Said god must have an alignment as much as one step from LG (with few exceptions, notably Corellon and as we all know, Sune).
3. They must keep to a code (and their alignment). http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm

(the above information was taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, 3.0, Page... 24?)

And that suits dwarves pretty well. That's all. The rest is just gravy. Remal talks a lot about how people go about playing paladins but you don't *have* to play like that, it's just how it turns out (usually). So yes, you can play a dwarven paladin who sticks with all the dwarven ideas, *provided* they also follow the code and are legally a paladin deity-wise. Ultimately they are indistinguishable from other dwarves except with a drive towards LG rather than LN. Degrees of pragmatism is an issue but I guess it's up to you as a player if you want that to be a thing (and it'd be the same as playing an LG dwarf anyway).

And Yoss's answer is, as usual, the best. Short this time, though... appropriately.

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Ravenovf

Posted: Fri, Mar 16 2012, 18:58 PM

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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia (in Canada)

The average dwarven racial Alignment is LG, Paladin seems like an almost ideal path for a dwarven holy warrior to take, The dwarven pantheon has a lot of gods of LG, LN and NG Alignment to act as patrons as well.

As for the idea of a Paladin being a made for humans by humans this is an old hold over from previous editions where even designers started to feel was wrong and stupid, as evidenced in AD&D books like the Complete Dwarf and Complete Paladin where Paladin's were introduced for dwarves and other races as opposed to the more human-centric class system presented earlier in the games history.

Ultimately paladins are held in high esteem by a culture that holds Duty, Justice and Honnestly as high ideals. The exact function of a paladin will of course differ with their god of choice as will their dogma, the paladin code always remains of course. A Dwarven Paladin is still a dwarf at the end of the day but bound strongly to the very ideals that the race holds closest to their heart.

Kraniumbrud

Posted: Sat, Mar 17 2012, 18:35 PM

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Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark

yea i would say that paladin is even more natural to dwarves than to humans

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MoshingChris

Posted: Sat, Mar 17 2012, 19:00 PM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

Yossarin answered this succinctly in the second post in this thread. Everything following is pretty much wrong from the perspective of my Ivory tower. Especially the comparison of a Prestige Class and a Base Class.

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Dark Immolation

Posted: Sat, Mar 17 2012, 20:05 PM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

Saying that different classes may sometimes fill the same role in a community is wrong. Yeahhuh, okay.

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D4rk5p1d3r

Posted: Tue, Mar 20 2012, 22:46 PM

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Joined: 15 Oct 2011

From 3.5 Races of Faerun page 18 under Shield Dwarf Characters "Most dwarves learn to defend their homes and clan, with fighters, paladins, and martial clerics being commonplace"

merdock77

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 17:42 PM

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Joined: 17 Apr 2011

Would a dwarven Paladin have a War Pig to ride instead of a war horse?

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Bobo_Underhill

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 19:04 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State

A paladin on Amia rides nothing.

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Pony

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 19:07 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Yea, welcome to the companions of Monthy Python and the Grail.

Yossarin

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 19:12 PM

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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Bobo_Underhill wrote:

A paladin on Amia rides nothing.

I disagree. I've seen a lot of them riding high horses.

fairdady

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 19:56 PM

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Joined: 10 Apr 2011

Yossarin wrote:

I disagree. I've seen a lot of them riding high horses.

Haha.. nice.

I think Merdock's question was just a curiosity question in general not so much pertaining to NWN mechanics.

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Magiros

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 22:40 PM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2006

I believe they indeed ride war pigs. What else fits pigs better than another pig?

On more serious note, perhaps Pony?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pony.htm

Quote:

Dog, Riding

This Medium dog is specially trained to carry a Small humanoid rider. It is brave in combat like a warhorse. You take no damage when you fall from a riding dog.
Donkey or Mule

Donkeys and mules are stolid in the face of danger, hardy, surefooted, and capable of carrying heavy loads over vast distances. Unlike a horse, a donkey or a mule is willing (though not eager) to enter dungeons and other strange or threatening places.

Or that taken from:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goo ... rvices.htm

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Pony

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 22:50 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Pony uses the horse skin and animation, and so far that is a no-no.

Gunz

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 23:23 PM

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Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca

On Amia, the only good pony is a dead pony.

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Tomato Sword

Posted: Thu, Mar 29 2012, 23:25 PM

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Joined: 18 Aug 2011

...... Okay that was totally disturbing.

Magiros

Posted: Fri, Mar 30 2012, 4:35 AM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2006

fairdady wrote:

Yossarin wrote:

I disagree. I've seen a lot of them riding high horses.

Haha.. nice.

I think Merdock's question was just a curiosity question in general not so much pertaining to NWN mechanics.

I as well assumed that no one is really getting a horse/pony/whatever expect rather asking that what they would be riding in D&D.

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Kraniumbrud

Posted: Sat, Mar 31 2012, 9:41 AM

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Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark

nothing i think it was tormak that once excused the lack of riding horses to a strange horse disease on the islands thus it is perfectly ic to assume that is the case hehe. in nwn or normal pnp

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Selvec Darkon

Posted: Sat, Mar 31 2012, 12:18 PM

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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

That and Amia is an island. Not much call for horses on an island really. You could ride them on the road and thats about it, everywhere else would be terrain best suited to foot exploration, and not mounted combat.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sat, Mar 31 2012, 12:30 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Kraniumbrud wrote:

nothing i think it was tormak that once excused the lack of riding horses to a strange horse disease on the islands thus it is perfectly ic to assume that is the case hehe. in nwn or normal pnp

No, I attributed it to the fact that it is a very hilly, mountainous island. Look at the areas you run around sometime. Outside of a few small parts of the bitter coast and a tiny bit of the frontier, the places is all hills and valeys and a mountain and big thick forests.

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fairdady

Posted: Sun, Apr 01 2012, 0:29 AM

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Joined: 10 Apr 2011

It's settled then, a lovely Amian Dwarven Paladin would be on a Mountain Goat.

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fairdady..

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Magiros

Posted: Tue, Apr 03 2012, 14:20 PM

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Joined: 28 Nov 2006

Giant moles?

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Dwarven Paladins?

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