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This has come up a few times in my Rp with my drow sorceress, Would a drow who converted from lolth to Elistraee still keep spiders around? And if so would there be a negative stigma from other Elistraeens on those who do, rather than leaving the remanents of thier past life/faith behind?

Well, I'll let more Eilistraee-y person than myself answer the question about Eilistraee, but you should also ask yourself how surface race would see you. You can try and convince them that you're not a Lolthite with a spider around, but it may be difficult to convince.

Rhyly is being modest, he knows oodles of drow. Though, put short:

L'darthiir d'Eilistraee xuat kyon whol l'orthae orbben.

Them Eilistraee people don't like spiders.

From the Loltite perspective intent is crucial. A female raised in a Lolthite society would likely know that lolth lays claim to all arachnids. So, is it an act of spite or revenge on the society your character turned away from? Both of which are natural drow tendencies in Lolthite society. There is also the state of fear that a Lolthite exists in. Are the spiders a conduit directly to Lolth herself? What if they allow her agents to find me and bring me back? Do I dare take that chance? [Insert even more hysteria and paranoia here]

As for the Eilistraeean perspective, Gers is probably best informed on the subject, both IC and OOC. Send him a PM if you still need help after some reply's here.

Most Eilistraeen despise spiders. This is not just because they're a symbol of what was likely their old life. The main reason instead is that spiders are known quite literally as the Eyes of Lloth. It's commonly held as true in drow society that spiders are the direct sign of Lloth's presence, and that she can both see and act through them. As a result, Eilistraeen tend to either kill them or drive them off somehow. Or, if you're one of the local Eilis, cook them up and eat them like overgrown crabs as a deliberate "fuck you" to Lloth.

Currently She keeps two around for producing silk from her weakness for fine clothing, and one as a familar but she often blows him up with fireballs (on accident). Shes very new to Elistraeen thing and to my knowledge hasnt brought them remotely close to the shrine. But yes, this does answer my question quite well, My thanks everyone.

I'd like to leave the thread open should anyone else have more they wish to add.

Forget the Eilistraeen for a moment. Try imagining running into a deciple of the Black Archer with your spider pets. You can forget any arguement of showing of Eilistraeen insignia if you ask me. Don't forget how utterly dispited Loth Drow are suppose to be.

I think there might be a misconception that only elves hate drow. All races, hate drow in Faerun (including other drow). The standard reaction is to run away in fear or attack the threat before you. Eilistraeens are usually confined to wilderness or frontier regions where they can live peacefully (e.g. for many years, they occupied the Twisted Tower in before being pushed out).

Humans hate drow just as much as any other surfacer (after all, children get told stories of how the drow will take them in their beds if they don't behave). So that said, a drow with a spider in tow, is likely going to be doubly hated. I know Amians are -slightly- more tolerant of drow (due to exposure of Eilistraeens wondering around the surface lands), but even then, do you honestly think anyone is going to trust one with a spider at its side?

Drow are a monster race of pure evil. A few of them have turned away from that, but no one else knows which one is which. The safest thing to do is to hate all drow until they prove themselves otherwise (and even then...). That would be the natural reaction of most people. Spiders aren't particularly helping your cause...

Yes of course. Do tend to forget about that playing Amia. Drow are hated, period and indeed there is a good haterd and distrust related reason for Eilistraeens usually living out in the wilds. Unless your Eilistraeen is suicidal, spiders is a very very bad idea.

My Eilistraeean always shot spiders on sight, both large and small. Though that also stemmed partially from arachnophobia due to various IC encounters, as well as him being told they are the eyes and spies of Lolth.

Answers: not likely and most definitely.

Lord-Hadeis wrote:

Yes of course. Do tend to forget about that playing Amia. Drow are hated, period and indeed there is a good haterd and distrust related reason for Eilistraeens usually living out in the wilds. Unless your Eilistraeen is suicidal, spiders is a very very bad idea.

This always makes me sad when I play my Lolthite. Only one person (save some elves) has ever had the classic reaction upon seeing her on the surface :cry:

She you never ran into the Stormthorn Elves. True fanatic nazi's of the Elven race. Any Drow is an evil Drow! If a Drow truely wants to repent, they;ll she;d their lives blood willingly on the altars of the true Elven Gods and hope they see it fit to return them as a worthty true member of the race!

Good old times...

Lord-Hadeis wrote:

She you never ran into the Stormthorn Elves. True fanatic nazi's of the Elven race. Any Drow is an evil Drow! If a Drow truely wants to repent, they;ll she;d their lives blood willingly on the altars of the true Elven Gods and hope they see it fit to return them as a worthty true member of the race!

Good old times...

Hah, nice. But I'm more concerned about the everyday adventurer. I mean, how trusting would you be of a drow in dark colored, slightly menacing armor? D: Haha Amia is so desensitized.

To be fair most of the screaming masses who run in fear are low level or NPCs not epic heroes who have waded through armies of terrible monsters on a daily basis to pay for their bills or in search of shiny things.

As for Spiders, an Eilistraeen who was a Lolthite might have no fear or hate of them, Kacha refuses to acknowledge spiders are being Lolths children simply because that empowers Lolth. To her they are just a creature that eats offensive insects. Giant spiders are dangerous man eating beasts and a good source of protean however. That having been said any Eilistraeen who has a neutral view on spiders should know well what surfacers will think and that many who escape the underdark and Lolth hate and fear spiders and as Eilistraee strives for politeness it would be very rude to trigger peoples arachnophobia for the sake of a little silk.

Even if you refuse to give the spider queen the satisfaction of treating spiders as her symbolic agents (infact using them as lowly domestic animals can be seen as rather spiteful to lolth's faith) You have to consider others may not understand the moral implications of you using spiders against the will of Lolth.

Ravenovf wrote:

To be fair most of the screaming masses who run in fear are low level or NPCs not epic heroes who have waded through armies of terrible monsters on a daily basis to pay for their bills or in search of shiny things.

That's a good point, though I figure people should at least be trying to figure out if she follows Eilistraee or not. Especially since, you know, she casts clerical spells and prays during rest periods and such XD

But yeah, I don't want to derail (even though it's vaguely on topic... but not quite). So that said, it's all pretty much what everyone has mentioned. I see an Eilistraeen drow having a spider familiar/companion/etc as a big 'Eff you' to Lolth, but my char might not haha. Course, most of my characters are more forgiving (but only to an extent).

It all depends on the personal outlook, as mentioned. However, don't be surprised if someone in the Shrine busts out the BBQ sauce and looks at your companion like a good meal.

IMHO... walking into the Shrine with a spider companion would be pretty closely analogous to walking into the Temple of the Triad's Light with a skeleton familiar in tow. It's antithetical. It's a (un)living symbol of a whole range of things that any reasonably functioning member of that community would utterly reject. I'm kind of a hard-liner on this sort of thing... an Eilistraeen character of mine would question the not only the level of commitment of the hypothetical spider-tolerating Eilistraeen, but also the judgement other Eilistraeens who reacted with anything other than horror and shock.

While spiders do Symbolize Lolth the Eilistraeen faith has no dogma that strictly says death to spiders. Their dogma is Death to evil beings who do not seek redemption. Would an Eilistaeen kill a good aligned spider like magical beast if they encountered one? Many giant spiders aren't evil, some are mind you. But as a chaotic faith with a dogma that slips and slides from gathering to gathering and on an individual basis its not real easy to pidgeonhole the faith as spider haters.

I would also suggest it goes on a case by case basis. Yes, Eilistraeens hate Lloth and all Lloth-related things, but it's not exactly Good to kill a creature just because some demented demon-bitch-goddess claims they all belong to her. They're just animals (yeah, technically Vermin, but you know what I mean). They are only evil if they are of a certain racial type or raised and used as such. Granted, the first reaction to a drow with a spider following it will and rightly should be "Oh crap,one of those guys." But if an Eilistraeen just slaughters a spider on sight, with no direct connection to a Llothlite, it looks like they're returning hate for blind hate.

If there's anything an Eilistraeen drow could sympathize with, you'd think it would be that not hating/killing things just because of what they are.

Slaughtering things for no reason other than they're there is what all PCs do on this server though, which may skew perspectives some.

Considering members of the local Eilistraeen populace do have good Spider-based recipes ((Pretty sure they were compared to crab legs)) ... xD

My Eilistrean is not the most devout of Eilistreans, he has even been accused of being a Vhearunite as he shares aspects of his outlook with them, but he is an Eilistrean. anyway... His view of spiders is somewhat neutral, he is comfortable around them as he grew up with them being used in decor, or living around the house, or he used to sneak spiders into his little sisters bed in an effort to "Toughen her up."

Now he lives on the surface, he sees them as animals, sometimes useful, other times to be culled. He doesn't hate them, even though they are a symbol of Lloth. In fact... he believes that that makes them useful, and what is useful is always most important to him.

My Personal view on the actual Lore, is that they would probably want to keep them away however, maybe not out of superstition that Lloth is watching you through their eyes (whether or not it is true) but definately because they don't want to be associated with them and their patron. Local Eilistreans as said however, eat them. For Funsies.

something to keep in mind, Eilistrean are big on keeping up appearance and thus running around with a spider ..and note that lolth is a goddess of sentient spiders, it is a bad signal to send to others, and i dont think its something a dark maiden follower would do..if not for the bad assosiations then for the reason that they tend to get shot (atleast on the mainland) enough without a symbol of lolth running around behind them.

I think what some people forget is that Eilistraee is an outcast of a goddess. Her followers are also outcasts. Willingly having a spider in tow is confrontational (From an OOC level, too?). The last thing an Eilistraeen would wish to do is rile someone up before even speaking, and in an area populated with elves and others, that's exactly what a drow with a spider would do.

Very simply, Eilistreens with spiders are possible, just unlikely. At this point, all that's happening is people mostly saying that in their own words or disagreeing.

You can disagree that Eilistraeens could run around with spiders, though rare, but that's simply the way of possibilities on Amia.

I play Chesel who is a mage and holy knight of eilistraee, she has a sword spider as a familiar partly becuase she likes spiders from a facination with them in the underdark. she belives ont he surfaces as long as we dont empower them they are simply just creatures and my spider is most openly on public display in the shrine on most occasions. she does however shoo her away if theres drow with arachnaphobic tendencies out og respect for there wishes
Most people on the surface know chesel now and would not dispute that she is very much a true eilistraeen
i make a point of mentioning my spider so people knoow eilistraeens exist that own them
i do have to agree with kacha on alot of point son this thread but yes the liklyness of an eilstaeen having a spider is slim simply because of the fears behinde the spiderqueen
i also own silk spiders aswell (but i dont blow them up with fireballs)
and chesel i think is the only eilistareen in the shrine with spiders...

Well Mayriina doesnt blow up her silk spiders, she lets them do thier thing, its her familar that often gets blown up because it A) wont move, or B) he got trapped in the line of fire.

But by this point she has bonded with a new familar, A bat, and keeps the silk spiders elsewhere.

Elistraeens and Spiders.

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