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Over here there has been a huge discussion about evil on Amia (not what it started out but...yeah).

So, I mentioned over there that I would see if there is any interest left to actually play an "evil" faction. I did kick some PMs to DMs...and this is in the very beginnings.

A few of you have responded...so...here is a general message...kick me a PM if you ARE interested in playing a "deep" style evil PC or even if you want to kick some ideas out to me...

Depending on what I get as feedback from the DM staff and the player base...we'll see if we can't kick this wheel and get it rolling...

First rule of successful evil, no one talks about successful evil. Keep this on the down low, yo.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

First rule of successful evil, no one talks about successful evil. Keep this on the down low, yo.

heh..that is why I said PM me...lol.

And NO I will NOT be using the Simeron Log in and the Forum will be PM for the most part till we get our own forum...

There's dozens of well established Less morally and not very honourable factions that play for the Other team already. Why start something new when you can just go with them?

Not exactly the concepts I see for this faction.

Maybe we can recruit from them or maybe we will end up getting recruited...or having a "alliance" of sorts...common enemies..etc...

We'll see...heh

I've been speaking with him through PMs, myself, and believe he has an interesting idea. I may or may not partake in such as i have much planned for Myra currently, but i can see that he is attempting something entertaining for the server given the current state of things. Let us say that the previous thread had as much inspiration and brainstorming as it did bickering.

Please do not bring arguments here from there, however, and respect the intent of the topic and it's creator.

Talk to Genar_Detkasa (KnightProtector in-game, and there are some who call him.... Duck). Him and me and some few others have been running small evil factions on and off for about a year up until recently. Small but successful relative to size. Our strength and weakness is that we live in Australia so we're in a non-prime timezone, which means we can get things done discreetly BUT no one is around to help us. We've recently been thinking about starting something up, and I've thought about trying to get in deep with someone who can operate and organise but who also lives in the prime time zone, which gives us connections and structure (something which was near impossible for us before, without ruining our sleep and social lives. Well my social life).

I don't really like PMing, but you're welcome to PM me or contact me some other way if you want to arrange something or are curious about details. We have lots of (old) plans, lots of ideas and decent experience. I'm sort of on hiatus from Amia but I am looking to come back, and this may be the opportunity I'm after.

What could be more evil than Simeron's abuse of ellipses?

Ah..my long spots full of that?

er...the emotes within...*scratch scratch*

Ah...me with a lit stick of dynamite *picture Wyle E Coyote but everyone else is going to go boom*

Ah....yeah... :mrgreen:

Hah, you're too late, Simeron- I'm one step ahead of you!

But seriously, we can talk.

Edit: That being said, I'd love to talk with DM's about some ideas, but I also don't want to sound premature in planning, ideas, etc. Or spewing ideas that really haven't involved enough people yet to be practical. I'm happy to see more interest though.

Yossarin wrote:

What could be more evil than Simeron's abuse of ellipses?

QFE!

Internet speech elitists.

If this is what I think you are suggesting, then this has been done before with limited success. I do think it's a good idea....assuming this idea is what I think it is.

If it involves role-playing more than a PvP mindset with realistic goals in mind I'll likely be interested.

Okay...the term "herd of cats" is coming to mind...which it fine...that is how it should be at the start...

Good feedback...

To clarify a bit more OOCly...

We are not PvP oriented. Yes, we will be PvPing...but in "controled" manners. We are not an "in your face" kind of evil...we are that far more deadly insidious evil.

We had an alliance of evil people. It fell apart quickly because for some reason the leader thought it was a good idea to put a Cyricist and a Banite in the same room.

jimbono1 wrote:

We had an alliance of evil people. It fell apart quickly because for some reason the leader thought it was a good idea to put a Cyricist and a Banite in the same room.

*chuckle* well, it is a good idea...if you sell tickets to the resulting fight....and run the betting house...and tables...and make the bookies pay you a percentage...and set the odds...

You know...the boring money making part of the operation...

OOO...concession too now...10% of the gate...20% of the concession...10% of all bets win or lose...5% security fee...10% breakage and damage replacement...

Not bad...I'm too soft...that still leaves a whopping 45% for everyone else...I gotta get tougher...

The biggest piece of the idea, and the most important I think, is creating a body of evil that focuses on itself instead of its enemies. VERY Rp-oriented goals that will be rather constructive.

Not saying combat will never-ever happen. The very act of constructing something evil is going to essentially create a presence that serves as a threat to the livelihoods of others. So this is going to bring people to us rather than us bringing swift action to them. The significance of this is subtle, but a stellar RP generator.

Also been done, and failed.

jimbono1 wrote:

Also been done, and failed.

Wow, I guess that means another attempt will surely fail, right?

I think what people who play good don't seem to realize, even they they do it all the time is that as soon as someone is evil in the game world, and someone else reports their existence, alot (not all) of them will simply gravitate towards that player IC and then what do you expect from there?

For example, someone plants 2 signs, and then someone says in the shrine next to about 10 players: "Hey I think there's a evil dude right out there." immediately every buffs and runs that direction. I mean come on, people.

To say that you want to play something that "isn't PvP based" is flat out ignorant and insulting to every evil who actually had an impact that was seen on the server. No evil was ever created to be "PvP based."

Don't be naive and think that you're going to be superior because you're not "PvP based."

Needled247 wrote:

To say that you want to play something that "isn't PvP based" is flat out ignorant and insulting to every evil who actually had an impact that was seen on the server. No evil was ever created to be "PvP based."

I rarely get into these sort of things, but this is simply ~looking~ for something to get butthurt about.

Needled247 wrote:

No evil was ever created to be "PvP based."

This is a joke, right?

Um, name one evil faction that existed to PvP?

Slavers seemed pretty PvP oriented to me. Also, nearly every half-assed Drow ever. Point is, it's a blanket statement that there will always be exceptions to. To get offended "on their behalf" because someone is simply making an evil without a specific PvP focus is utterly asinine. The only reason I can think of that you would get so offended over a post that in no way insults anyone else if because ~you~ have a PvP focused character and feel that you're being "called out" on it.

Can we not try to derail this thread with pointless arguments? Let Simeron do what he's doing here. If you don't agree with it or don't like it, you're more than welcome not to involve yourself.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Can we not try to derail this thread with pointless arguments? Let Simeron do what he's doing here. If you don't agree with it or don't like it, you're more than welcome not to involve yourself.

Yes, this. I'll try not to let myself get baited.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Can we not try to derail this thread with pointless arguments? Let Simeron do what he's doing here. If you don't agree with it or don't like it, you're more than welcome not to involve yourself.

This.

Seriously, I may not have any power here but people need to quit doing this.

This is a legitimate thread that is trying to get some interest going into a new faction (one that, from what I have been told by Simeron, sounds interesting).

So, again, quite this shit and take it elsewhere. Make your own stupid thread if you want to do this.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Can we not try to derail this thread with pointless arguments? Let Simeron do what he's doing here. If you don't agree with it or don't like it, you're more than welcome not to involve yourself.

Yes, this. I'll try not to let myself get baited.

Lol, of course. You say your piece. I'm sad to say that while I wasn't a part of the slavers, I know that most of the time, they were the ones who got attacked by other people. You know how I know? It's how it always is. They're open evil, they exist, they get attacked. If people know where you are, they run there and initiate conflict RP that unfortunately sometimes leads to PvP. When you're doing this type of thing you have to be ready for it.

I also know for a fact there was a thick plot involved with the slavers, and PvP was not the center of it. As for "random" drow, mostly I don't really comment on "random" players because they don't represent any evil group, just an individual doing whatever it wants.

Also, I think accusing me of being "PvP orientated" because I understand a concept that you can't seem to wrap your head around is ignorant, just like the rest of your post.

I like the initiative of this thread, however, don't get me wrong.

Please mind your arguments. We saw that it got pretty much nowhere in another thread recently.

Though I will say, Simeron, that you should put significant stock in what Needled and even Jimbo are saying. The latter has a tendency to bitch and whine without offering solid solutions (nothing wrong with that, I love to do it myself!), but they've both been around evil's block a couple of times and do have an understanding about how crappily it often comes out. I would encourage you to have conversations with them at their leisure, if they're amenable, and ask questions of "those who have come before".

I have given many spiels in the past about how the Evil/Good dynamic in Amia is an issue that cannot be solved at the DM level, and that it must be solved at the player level with a massive cultural change. For the record, I am of the opinion that it is a problem, and I genuinely side with the lament of the evil folks, even if I find that all too often they go and shoot themselves in the foot somehow. And the only way we can affect that cultural change from up here would involve draconian measures no one would like (similar to the draconian measures we would have to take in fixing the ludicrous economy).

Personally, I believe this can only be done by players who lead by example. DMs should focus on DMing and not playing (hence my own reluctant retirement from playing while I hold this position), and so it is difficult for us to lead by example because we have too many administrative responsibilities.

Needled247 wrote:

Also, I think accusing me of being "PvP orientated" because I understand a concept that you can't seem to wrap your head around is ignorant, just like the rest of your post.

Please stop doing this in these threads. I'm serious, it breaks them.

Now, who says an evil faction can't be simply... cowardly, or pacifist? Truly intelligent evil characters will do what they can get away with until they have the proper power to deal with their problems-- with minimal losses incurred. Wicked politicians won't accept your challenge to a fist fight, and even better ones will never be truly confronted due to their connections and allies.

If 10 people buff up and come out, you don't have to fight them; just don't be standing over a dead body with blood on your hands and no way to escape. Why stick around and fight...? Honor? Psssh.

Edit: For politeness.

Ah, yes, running works fairly well, however,

Amia Rules wrote:

8. The above goes for fleeing from hostile situations: If you turn tail and run without a word to avoid IC consequence, you can expect to be stopped by any means possible. Always give others reasonable time to react with RP!

Just be mindful, that you do it before you get stuck in a conversation, (which unfortunately can be difficult sometimes).

Simeron, you're probably more than welcome to take over the Banites as a faction, and become their new Imperceptor, if you are willing enough. There aren't many of us left and even those few that are, are inactive also. Freddy the previous/current imperceptor left without saying a word, so as Inquisitor i'm probably permitted to request a new Imperceptor. I'm not willing to lead the faction myself though, due to my own inactivity, but i can come on every once in a while. And just because it's a Banite faction doesn't mean that we must convert everyone to Bane. Just make them serve him/us. I'll not go into any more detail, but i'm supprised that the Banite faction forum hasn't been deleted yet. Myself and Morgul (dead) are the only two Banites who i have seen online in the past months, although i haven't been in game much myself, due to university and swtor and stuff. This is just one of many solutions though, and it will be hard work, even trying to find people willing to join you, ICly or OOCly.

Needled247 wrote:

Ah, yes, running works fairly well, however,

Just be mindful, that you do it before you get stuck in a conversation, (which unfortunately can be difficult sometimes).

Well, if it's stay or die because the good guys are bloodthirsty... or run and die because then they get to attack without warning; as a coward, i'd take my chances with running.

Simeron knew his chances continuing a thread on a topic that got heated and it isn't just Needled that was/is being inappropriate, Mercedes. I'd encourage you to PM with Yossarin, along with previous Surface evils, Simeron. Some of these posters have good points even if they can't seem to control themselves to post the opinions very cleverly.

Simeron came up with a fairly interesting concept that I'd throw my hat into if I wasn't so occupied with Isaac and my Helmite. He should at least heed the things that people have to say about it, such as their fears of why it might fail or their experiences of failure. Doesn't mean it won't succeed though.

One foot forward at a time. Simeron's got an idea, so do I-- we just put one foot forward, gauge the interest. Get a list. Get some names. That's all.

I don't think anyone here is speaking ill of each other. We're all really rather positive and hopeful. Well, maybe Jim's lost his hope-- but we still love him to death.

Needled, Ninja, Jim- all you guys. Simeron too, my MSN is mrhackums@live.com. I'd love to chat with you guys about all these things. There's some fun stuff cookin'. You've all clearly got a lot to say about these things, and there's a lot of things I'd love to listen to.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Added. Mine is in my profile

I am more then willing to receive PMs (I have beeb flooded folks but I think I am answering them all, had 22 at one point piled up).

I can tell you, there is a TREMENDOUS amount of interest in this...I can honestly say, alot more then I figured. There is a desire I think in the player base to be the villain. The foil. The counter balance.

why?

My own guess is we see all the goodly people...we see all this work and effort they put in...and then even they see....there are no worthy villains....not anymore...

Let me ask you this...

When Amenia was taken...and we showed up with 6 good people...we caught the drow by surprise. 5 PC drows, 3 dead to rights.....reset happens...

We come back...there are 15 drow now...so..ah..yeah...it ain't just the good folks that do that that "CHARGE" stuff...lol...but that is human nature...

I see this as a good thing in a way...it needs to be channeled though....what I see is this...

WOOO HOOO...We are FINALLY going to have some KICK BUTT FUN against OTHER PLAYERS...

The desire is there for the truly epic fights...the ones where another human mind is controlling that little pixelated avatar. The one that can pull some hair brained stunt the AI couldn't do on its best day.

Yes...this may go down in flames...it may end badly...but, remember, my take on this is simple...

We aren't openly evil (well, most of us aren't).

I DO have a plan for the eventual "outing" of an evil person. I do have a plan for the ones that are openly evil. I do have ideas on how to work this.

Will they all work? NO WAY.

Will most of them work? Hrm...probably not.

Will SOME of them work? Heh..you better believe it.

I think people that have worked with Krugan understand well how he works his angles...many think he is evil...he isn't at all. Zelly even has told me in tells she even kinda enjoys having a foil though she doesn't much care for the conflict...and I understand that and am happy to be a thorn in her side and foot (and other parts) as I can.

I think I've been doing a fair job of it given I am more or less a one man stir stick. I see openings and then use RP to get others involved. Currently, I got her kinda worried when my assassins are going to show up or what other little plot I got working...she knows one angle I am almost 100% sure...she knows a second angle too...but she ain't sure how many more angles I got coming in at her...which is the fun for me...

*tap tap* turns...slap...why you..where'd they go...*twig snaps* turns..nothing...*gets kicked in the butt* HEY....

Has everything Krugan tried worked...oh hell no...alot has blown squarely up in his face...but you roll with it.

What I truly hope to achieve out of this is simply this....

A viable, long lasting, evil faction that can be a constant counter balance against the many good groups around here. Kinda the Legion of Doom vs the Justice League of America.

Except the Legion is NOT going to be openly evil. Not all of it really.

I hope the good players will have enough snap to realize that they need to be a little better then "Oh hey look, bad guy, call 20 people, buff everyone, pounce"....and I hope that the evil people won't go "oh there are a couple of good guys, call 20 people, buff everyone, pounce" either.

Personally, I'd prefer it to be...Evil guy has been outed...moves quietly through the good lands to the evil lands where he can do just as much stuff and the good folks can....then, 3-5 evil folks are slanted to go do some bad stuff...not necessarily PvPing players but...whatever...and the only time PvP happens is when the good folks either happen across the evil folks up to no good or they are getting jacked themselves....for example....

Evil team A, 3 players...is sent to gather dead bodies from graves and other places we can get dead bodies from. Good player 1 sees them digging up said bodies...challenges them...to which Evil Team A tell them they are grave diggers and these bodies need to be consecrated.

Good player 1...now having a valid answer, sticks with the RP and goes to check about said grave diggers. Getting a few friends together (not 1000, 1-3) to return after checking with the local authorities.

By the time they are back..Evil team A is gone. Or they get to confront them.

If confronted...Evil Team A can either fight or, try to show reason that there is some screw up on paperwork.

Or...

Goodly Team A (4 players) is on patrol looking for bay guys....Evil Team 1 (6 players) knows they are coming because Evil A saw them coming, ran ahead and warned them or something along those lines.

GT A gets ambushed and their heads handed to them.

They respawn and head back with 20 folks...evil team 1 is gone...and because they can't legally ID them...nothing happens...except...

Three days later..evil team 1 comes back to try again....but this time, GT A has their own scouts out and spotted them...hmm...another group laying in wait where we just got jumped...so, let's surround them and ask some questions....Evil Team 1 decides to try to fight it out and loses...

Things like this....

Maybe it won't happen and these are just some overly simple examples...things NEVER go smoothly.

My point is EXACTLY what Yoss said....

It is up to we PLAYERS to change the dynamic of this server...not the DM staff.

They are here to referee and help facilitate OUR ideas really. Sure they can come up with some too but, why the hell should they get all the fun thinking up things to do.

I loved all the RP about Krugan getting his new skill for the SD and his wedding and I involved alot of players with very little DM stuff on the wedding. I have paid folks to use their trade skills for the sole purpose of giving people I RP with a chance to use their Job Skills.

Do you know how many people have asked Krugan, who is a RANK 2 Spy...to ah...SPY on anyone?

0

Guess how many people know Krugan does spy....tons....why...because he is open about it.

How many Shadowdancers are open about it? He is PROUD to be a Dancer....don't mind being the front man...I love it...he's not someone you forget...even when you want to and drink lots of booze...lol.

Now while that may be a BAD thing...*snicker* That is the point of the game is it not?

You know...for EVERYONE to have fun...my hope, goal, dream, is to make it where people can enjoy being good or evil WITHOUT having to suck the fun out of it for other folks.

Its a hard trick to pull off...as I have said in many PMs and posts...its herding cats...it really is...

There is so much enthusiasm for this...and everyone is wanting to run before we can even stand, much less crawl or walk...that I am trying to reign it in already...get things organized...put the foundations down...

I see no reason why Banites wouldn't want to support this faction....they just ain't going to be around Cyricists. That is fine...I knwo this going in and won't try to force it...

Instead...I put Bane followers in this nice red box over here....Cyric followers in this pretty blue box over there and guess who is the only one that deals with both....me...why..because these two cats will tear each other apart...

Now..how do I get them to not kill each other....I give them something to DO....Red box..go play with the Knights...blue box...go play with the Hin...(or whoever...whatever...)

Its a HUGE amount of time on my part....a HUGE risk that it will all be for nothing...and that is what I expressed at the start to the DM Staff and many, many players...in two big posts..bigger then my normal ones that are already huge.

Believe me...I know very well what I am trying to do is going to be hard as hell to pull off...but when you can....if it works...the payout is going to be so great...that I hope it will have server wide effects that will really make people want to log in and RP rather then "oooo..reset..time to make 5 boss runs and log out"

Or

"Great, let me log in and see if my close circle of buds are on....hmm...crap..they all got BORED with their level 30s and made level 3s again..guess i will too..."

Three complaints I have heard so much in 4 months....

1) People boss farm ah la MMORPG.

Cure...what cant you really do in an MMORPG that you can here...RP....

2) People are leaving the server because they are bored and finding other games to play.

Cure...how to you keep things fresh...RP...no end to what you can do.

3) We won't leave but we are so tired of not having anything for our level 30s to do so we make new characters....

Cure....give level 30s something to do...RP....its really the only thing a level 30 CAN do...

Epic loot...it ends...leveling up...no more...character development...done...must...R P...

Sooooooo

Here I am...whole server pop..good, neutral, evil....I'm saying as a PLAYER, not a DM, I am willling to try...

What more can I do...or ask anyone else to do?

If you want to try to...come play...if not...then I ask you at least stay out of the way of the folks that do.

If you do want to play...I ask you don't bother the folks that don't want to...

We are all mature (well..kinda and can be) and all fairly intelligent (see previous statement) so....what's the problem?

Let's see if I fall flat on my face...at least I am trying to do something about the situation and I am askign for all the help I can get...from anyone...on any side.

Hell...i would even be willing to co-ordinate things with the Goodly Factions of the server with DM help to make some big events....

Again...why should any evil faction be stomped into powdered if you just manage things?

I think the player base is good enough here on all points that we CAN actually have it done...pipe dream or not...and I am going to find out.

I am stoked over this...and hell folks..I turn 45 in less then a month...lol...what the hell most of you are my KIDS age...most...hehe...

Please tell me this old, fat, worn out, beat down, insane old dwarf in human skin doesn't have more "Living la via loca" in him then all you young folks.... :lol:

If anyone wants to MSN me, my MSN is zf_sephiroth@hotmail.com

Yes, yes, I know. I was 8.

Needled247 wrote:

If anyone wants to MSN me, my MSN is zf_sephiroth@hotmail.com

Yes, yes, I know. I was 8.

There's a thing called new mail

As someone who also has an embarrassing MSN address: changing it is always a huge hassle and you can lose touch with friends who often don't log in.

Anyways, I'll be interested in seeing how this pans out. I think the key to handling PvP is to try to make sure the faction doesn't live and die off the results. This may be difficult specially when it comes to building something though, as unless it can be hidden it can just be destroyed by force. I think there are workarounds though, so we'll see.

I really think what a lot of people are missing (on purpose or otherwise) is the "hidden" part of it. You don't have to announce you're evil. I can name SEVERAL very very well-known chars who lived for years with everyone thinking they were sweet as spun sugar only to surprise be the leaders of the Banites or what have you.

Evil can grow and propagate without needing to be out in the open. It doesn't NEED to be the Banites in full black-and-green field garb marching to war. It can be Cyric, embracing Mystra to get closer to her back. Or a Sharran manipulating a Selunite into the darkness under cover of being a sister priestess. Things you won't see, and thus can't guard against.

P Three wrote:

Things you won't see, and thus can't guard against.

Yes, and even though they SEEM like good folk, they're really just waiting until your departure will be convenient. All of you! And no one will ever suspect a THING! AH HA HA HAAAA :lol:

Ahem

*pokes her nose in* ....did someone say evil??

I have my duergar who I've recently dusted off (out of archive) and I'd love to get playing her again. She's evil...though doesn't randomly kill people (although she has very evil farts, so be warned if you get too close to her). So, yeah, I'd love to join in now that the rest of the Bloodbeard clan has vanished and see what the new group is about.

Well...things are moving.

Here is what I would like at this point....

To help save what little sanity I have....let's try to corral these kitties....

****

If you wish to support and/or join the faction...I need the following...and yes you WILL have to join ICly...again, sorry for this OOC but...this has kinda exploded way more then I thought so..I am trying to corral cats...lol.

PM me please....

Forum Name

Character Name - Race

Job Skills you see them having.

Build you figure you will have at 30. (or if you think you will make 30)

Whether you want to be an 1) Active or 2) Support character.

Active means this will be a primary character, not necessarily main but you will devote at least 50% of your IG time to it.

Support means you would like to be in the faction but, can give LESS THAN 50% of your play time to it.

This does not mean you won't get to have fun and enjoy the RP. It just means I need to know who will be more active.

Character GOALS and why you would want to be in this kind of faction.

Please resend if you sent before. I will be copying and pasting this into a spreadsheet to try to organize this....

The fuse is lit...my "leader" is already in game and working toward his becoming the happy little blackhearted person he knows he can be...

I'll gladly assist anyone in the promotion of evil in any way i can. But don't expect too much. I used to work as a team with Mr Hyde, who seems to be rather anonymous. For some reason i got all the credit when truly it was all him. He is the God of Evil. In comparison, i deserve nothing.

Any help is appreciated.

So far, since this posting we are a decent start active and a few support (actives are also good for support too) so...yeah...this seems to have a good start...now...I will try to coordinate things and get the ball rolling IC...

Please continue the PMs and I will begin the bookwork...

Being a faction leader for nearly 4 years now of a good faction and saw a bunch of evil faction rise and fall, I shall give you an advice:

Do not try to rule/dominate/conquer anything at once. That was pretty much the failure of the previous evil factions.
That is the only which will sooner or later begin a chain contingency of events which will turn the majority of the server against you. This is what destroyed the evil factions. Not the pvp, nor the ic or ooc bs that went on, this is the thing that you think that you can achieve but most needs months or years of planning to achieve such.

Lutra wrote:

Being a faction leader for nearly 4 years now of a good faction and saw a bunch of evil faction rise and fall, I shall give you an advice:

Do not try to rule/dominate/conquer anything at once. That was pretty much the failure of the previous evil factions.
That is the only which will sooner or later begin a chain contingency of events which will turn the majority of the server against you. This is what destroyed most evil factions. Not the pvp, nor the ic or ooc bs that went on, this is the thing that you think that you can achieve but most needs months or years of planning to achieve such.

Fix'd

disinterest killed my group, but thats because monstrous races are kind of a fad. when the alt appearances were implemented, a lot of goblins and kobs were made, but now there are only a few here and there. I dont have any hopes that itll come back, but rather i get to have a unique and well loved character (by me, others not so much love hehe) out of it and thats worth all the rp i put into a dead faction along with all its other members.

Checking interest....

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