I know not everyone does, and players like you make the rp experience quite fantastic.

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I am the new way to go, I am the way of the future.

Cecilia - Most evil 2011!

Generalizing usually is a bad idea in cases like this, as anyone who puts players in only the good or evil category quickly steps on toes because what they say simply does not apply in such a broad spectrum of characters and players. I have interacted with both good and evil characters I steer away from as the roleplay is not an enjoyment, and there are good and evil characters I on the other hand greatly enjoy to play with, and others in the middle.

I find it utterly idiotic to say evil only steers towards killing, mutilating and destroying. I played evil that did not, so as a whole it does not. You overlook one of the scenarios that I have seen countless of times, namely that when evil characters try to not use violence, but because the good guys will not tolerate it instantly go into violent confrontation with the bad guys. Other attempt to make their affiliation secret, but when it leaks it is again violence that occurs very quickly. They do not even necessarily need to commit a crime, but are attacked because of affiliation or faith is generally evil. This is the case even if evil does not affect them, but for instance an npc community. So it is often a group of the good guys who go out of their way to initiate the conflict, while they are not affected if they would not rush there.

Is that bad? No. But to blame evil for the conflict that is brought upon good characters, that was not begun by them is. So it is not only the evil guys who cause conflict, but the good guys as well. With Sir Robert I will hardly deny it is the case that he is one to deal out judgement and execution quickly upon evil. However, what I try is to show a certain amount of respect towards the endeavors and the accomplishments on the other side both ic and ooc, and try my best to make room to allow interactions that are of a none-violent nature. Neutral grounds (Triumvir for one) permit interactions where words can speak instead of steel. He knows two banite Imperceptors very well, spoke on many accounts with Cecila. Seeamros was someone I did not often interact with, but felt that my character had a strong story tied to his and respected his abilities. I feel this allowed me to actually build a story with the opposing side that extended beyond simple pvp, something I thoroughly enjoyed to explore.

If the Church of Bane has the long term goal to dominate Amia, why not? That needs to be achieved by smaller steps, and that creates roleplay, both for evil characters and the good characters that might move into conflict with them. In my opinion it is up to both sides to make it fun for one another, to not give in to straining and boring repetition and to not be over sensitive whiny bitches over every little slip up that may happen. I really hope that the evil guys get started again, provide some rp and conflict for my character and perhaps the DMs help with steering them in a direction that they feel is beneficial to the server with events. And if good becomes the Underdog? Awesome, that would provide a very new and interesting aspect to amia.

Why I write this? I did not smite someone for a long time and support the possibility I can do so again, involving a lot of fun roleplay.

Playing as open evil in Amia has always been rather challenging. Even if you're secretive about it, you have to censor what you would do, because you can't ever perma anyone, or have any way of preventing them from just remembering everything about an event.

People say we can't win all the time. I don't see why anyone thought we cared about winning. Here's a different thing to think about; status quo. Good can wake up any day of the week and play house with one another in their city. Evil, really, can't.

I've played about as "good" as my character can get without a rubberband just snapping these past few months. I feel that without a form of open evil, the server's plot is dull. Maybe that's just me. I feel bad because my character is still extremely evil, but playing her like one would just exclude me from any future RP I have with the (IMO) diminishing population of people on the server.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

QFE

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

I don't know why people keep insinuating we don't have evil characters on Amia anymore just because certain group of players aren't PvPing other characters every day.

Evil is very easy to play without PvP. My evil character has had PvP exactly once in however many months they've been around.

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Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

Well I have to agree with crowy, RP varies. When I started playing a few months ago, the RP was awesome and at times its pretty dull but has picked back up gradually.



Honestly I agree and disagree with that. While it won't happen every day.. good and evil do collide and conflict. I feel, however, there really isn't enough of these conflicts. I no longer see skirmishes with slavers, Banites killing Tormites, drow surface raids, or even a bandit robbing a traveler on the roads. So its not that evil doesn't exist, its just...overruled? This however can only be corrected by the players who want to play the villain.

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I Play.....
Zeo, Great Kobold Sorcerer
Taal Datton, Half-Elven Ranger of Mielikki
Redelin Flintfar goodly cleric of Moradin.
Alaund Lolarox, enigmatic Weapon Master.

...on Amia

Kelemvorites killing Lathanderites...

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

Again, your perception that there are no evil characters or villains about just because you don't see these things, which you believe to be quintessence of evil, are insult to evil characters who are actively RPing and working on their plot and goals.

You assume there is no conflict when there is. You assume there's no villain just because you don't see one. Some of the most notorious evil deities in Faerun accomplished their status through clandestine operations. Not everything have to be about direct confrontation and war all the time.

It's all good and dandy being evil and nobody knowing about it. But whats the point if you're not doing anything except acting good? Maybe once in a blue moon you will do an evil deed or manipulate someone to do something bad. But that isn't generating much conflict RP at all, now is it? There needs to be an evil with a face. People constantly go on about how they want evil to be secretive and smart, but i've yet to see any RP Generated through such a method.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

1. Haven't you ever watched High School Musical? Status quo is silly (and not fun)! Even Zac Efron knows.

2. Evil does play house. It drinks tea, it has pets and it does its nails every day at the spa. You have a drow. Look around that place! I'm insulted.

The first two were just for Needled and those of you sharing those ridiculous ideas. Now onto three.

3. The good vs. evil arguing and hypothesizing about existing is just as silly as thinking evil can't play house, all of you good vs evil posters. Good vs. evil is a sad, blurry grey area where we all get lost and cry and wish we were right. In game and out of it. Shit, yo.

I hardly see pure, malicious evil when I'm on my way to work everyday. You see it on the news, where so-and-so got murdered and left in pieces on the side of the road. Maybe the evil that exists on Amia most often right now is that blurry, I can't tell it's there evil. Frankly I think it's always had a bit too much of the chop-everyone-dead kind. And I found that most of them just tried too hard, and not in a funny way. The blurry kind is real life. Just imagine real life has animated skeletons and magic... and maybe a Karsus imitator or two. I doubt I stopped any potential arguing, but I thought I'd try.

It's more or less a case of art imitating life. The stability, unity and popularity of being "Good" has enabled that side in the conflict to grow into monolithic size, which makes it a lot harder for the opposed entity to make itself visible without resulting in destruction. Not that this part of the conflict is bad but characters generally wish to avoid being destroyed and I'd say players can only perpetuate the conflict for so long before it gets dull (rule of thumb, you get sick of losing before you get sick of winning, no matter how fun it is overall).

Like the real world, "evil" (I'm using the word in the vaguest sense possible, hope it still conveys my meaning) mostly exists in terrorism/sleeper agents/guerilla, because that's the hardest thing for a large enemy to fight and thus the smartest thing to do. You also get a few holdouts like the underdark settlements and Tarkuul, but they're like Russia of the past: too difficult to invade without reason and not troublesome enough to give that reason, and they suck at attacking too (sorry Russia, but even Japan beat you), except for lightning raids (which the drow are suited to). As a result, yeah it's there, no it usually doesn't do much because it can't.

If you want a more visible, threatening evil... well, it starts with the playerbase.



Uh... he doesn't really seem to be saying what you are saying he is saying. He said specifically that they do collide. He gave specific examples about wanting to see more *visible* conflict, not that it was essential to evil. What's wrong with that, really? What's wrong with *wanting* open conflict? Some people don't care about cloak and dagger intrigue, they want to see bandit raids. The problem is that bandit raids don't do too well in this setting due to what I've said above: good wises up and negates the effect of evil by way of its huge size and resources.

And the example about evil deities isn't very good. The most notorious evil deities accomplished their status through writer say-so. The writer says "They are this good, and exactly lucky enough to succeed in this specific way!", the only thing they have to contend with is making the story believable and interesting, because they control all other elements. We can't do that here. We have to contend with the wills of real people (real people playing characters, but same deal). One might argue this makes the conflict more interesting, but also a lot harder, and there are a lot of boring bits. Oh, and you'll never ever ever ever ascend to godhood, so your goals/payoffs are a lot lower. Though at least with less tools, your (unlikely) success is more believable!


The problem with sneaky evil is that you can't get discovered or you lose (which isn't bad in and of itself, but more often than not unless you have perfect damage control it's Game Over, due to the nature of Good). The more you do, the more chance you have of being caught. If you do your job right, no one should notice your handiwork. But doing your job right is boring. Doing your job wrong is a sure way to not have that job anymore. Finding the balance there is tricky.



There is a clear conflict (or series thereof) with two sides though. For the most part one side generally has "evil-aligned" individuals or at least antisocial ones (and "antisocial" is considered a component of evil, often) and the other side- well, is mostly defined by its opposition to evil. Is the "evil" really the sort of pitch-black murderous scum we think of, or are they more reasonable, 3-dimensional individuals? I don't know. But you sure as hell can't ask them when they're cutting you down and hauling you off to the slave market, can you?

And on your way to work you generally don't deal with bandits/slavers, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Evil can play house, but if your house isn't invisible or in Russia... good luck.

There's nothing wrong with good vs evil. It's fun. It's why we read/enjoy stuff like Lord of the Rings.

That said. I feel bad for perpetuating the good vs evil argument on this thread. It's sort of off-topic and probably not very constructive, and it has been played out before.


Oh look, I've succeeded in making my post long enough that none of the people I responded to will read it.

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@Thanatopsis#6293

agreed ^



would agree if we are talking about real life but....this is not real life its a fantasy world where such exists.


Never said there wasn't any evil... I said there isn't enough conflict. Not all evil is secretive, not every villain is a devious bastard. There are bandits, there are murderers. and its been said:

// edit: and I read your post above don't worry we kinda posted it at the same time.

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I Play.....
Zeo, Great Kobold Sorcerer
Taal Datton, Half-Elven Ranger of Mielikki
Redelin Flintfar goodly cleric of Moradin.
Alaund Lolarox, enigmatic Weapon Master.

...on Amia

While this is true to some extent, note that evil is also so much easier to establish because of the idea that good is not above evil in death. People still attain a happy life and afterlife as long as they serve some god's will. An evil deed in Faerun is not necessarily bad at all. Faerun is so much more flexible by having revealed the true nature of its existence quite amoral. But in the end, yarp, it all boils down to writer say-so.

And I don't want to speak of this in terms of real-life ethics and human behaviour. Also, I'm not sure if any of this contributes to your point.

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UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Ugh, my apologies to OP, since my post obviously steered this topic in another direction entirely.


But, trying to stay OT. There is also one important thing if you wish to make some effects in game world - if you have plans, ask DMs for help. Good cooperation with DMs is necessary, either to see if your ideas are feasible or acceptable for the general benefit of the server RP. Be ready to wait (since DMs have their own stuff to do), compromise and to accept the fact that no matter how you try, you may always fail. Trying to do everything on your own and then expect something to happen on greater scale won't work, especially if you don't even notify DMs about what are you trying to accomplish, and then expect them to bow to your wishes just because you put some (lot) effort to it.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry

That's alright, as it seems a lot of people had things to say regaurding the good vs evil discussion. It also seems that everyone has drastically varying views on what makes a good RP community.

What i think this all really boils down to is... we should all simply just respect everyone through roleplay, and work with eachother to make situations more entertaining for those involved; Stop worrying about who is going to win or lose, but also keep in mind the persona of our characters so that we don't betray that. I believe something along these lines is actually in Amia's rules.

Hiding behind a gate going "Nya nya you can't get me!" is likely pretty poor RP, as much as it is to run up and be cutesy/silly to the dark knight of darkness because you know he can't touch you so close to town. Likewise, murdering people instantly in PVP because you think they'll harm your RP-ego if you don't is likewise pretty poor RP.

I have seen a few great examples now of friends and foes who treat eachother with respect, even if there's an apparent rivalry or hate involved. You never read a story about the villain who sees the hero in the opening act and just... kills him. You always ask, "Why in the hells did he spare the hero when he KNOWS he's working against him!?"-- and then he rises in power and thwarts his plans. Well, it's for the plot.

I like to have fun. Win or lose, i also love to make fun for other people, which is something i strive to do on Myra who is a very... social character. But being clever in conversation gets boring, so i believe i have a good idea for a new fellow given the collective reasoning and a better "Feel" of the server. You guys have given me that, a general consensus as to how you all feel toward the general state of things... This is truly what i needed to know.

I think we should have a server status discussion more often, kind of let everyone see where everyone else is at. Good melting pot, good mojo.

I don't know why everyone's arguing good and evil again. I've already given the answers to it all a bunch of times.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Estara, I will just like to note that drow and tarkuul are mostly excluded from that. They infact do have their own places, but oddly have been known to kick people out for being evil within them. So, take that for what it's worth. Underport as well.

For example, take a prisoner to Kohlingen jail, that's a safe place. Take a prisoner as evil? Well, you're on your own. Tarkuul will ban you, Edonil won't accept you unless you're a drow; inwhich case it's not metagaming for good to knock without a DM alot of the cases.

I've also heard friends of mine claim that people (DM's included) actually complain that evil is "hiding out in a house" and couldn't be accessed. Try seeing things conversely. Is standing in Kohlingen any better?

It's almost discouraging, the amount of events we've played open evil in, and the results obtained. Actually, some of the events weren't even "open," the whole server just seemed to be there for whatever reason, waiting to incite massive PvP.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Wrong

There is a right and a wrong way to go about it, as displayed in the City's very rigorous adherence to law (and a very keen sense of self preservation since it's ALIVE)

Not my fault if you can't be arsed to figure it out!

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Well, considering it did happen to us, and who knows, I could still be banned, I'd almost rather not to elect to initiate 15 more IC letters all with either no response or continued declinations as to re admittance. It's taken years, mind you. I never actually found out why we got banned either.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

If someone wants to take a loan from me and keeps just saying, "Hey, I want a loan, hey, I want a loan," in a variety of pretty and flowery ways, I'll ignore it, too. The moment he takes the time to send me a letter or give me a phone call wherein he lays out a solid plan I can verify that will not only guarantee me my money back, but money back with significant interest, then I'll finally listen.

Well, I've heard the exact same thing said when the Banites were imprisoned in Cordor for three days. They (I wasn't there) obviously failed to sell you on a similar sales pitch. I've obviously failed selling that pitch to Cordor for two years.

I probably am not as creative as I need to be. I know I am not a very good roleplayer. But I do not see the point is telling people that such a concept exists where the tide can change if you do something massively creative if such an event never occurs. It's a huge hill. That's how I see it. Our base had been destroyed four times prior with questionable DM involvement in almost each scenario. I get it- I'm not good enough of a roleplayer. If I can't figure your riddle out, why should I, or all others who quit that day they were jailed log on?

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Psh. It was as easy as saying, "Who is on your Most Wanted List, more of an enemy to you than us? Put us to work bringing them in to you."

Also as easy as granting them what they'd asked for years ago: the Church's submission to their authority and someone to stand for Darthion's crimes, even if it couldn't be him.

Coming to those conclusions required zero creativity, just, you know, paying attention to heavily advertised details.

What was our solution to the Black Caravan, exactly? Now that we're being generous with knowledge..

I suppose we could've talked them down from 500 million gold to 250 million.

Black Caravan'd-
(v) To have a faction well established in Faerunian lore get wtfpwned by a completely contrived DM plot device with no bearing whatsoever on the actual campaign setting or events.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

You got us on that one, imo. I am not going to defend what happened between you and the Black Caravan. And I'm trying to be diplomatic and avoid throwing a former DM under the bus, a former DM who did a lot of great work but also made some choices I didn't agree with.

I must also ask then. The new temple was razed to the ground by cannons. Has a cannonball ever knocked down an entire castle? That doesn't even make sense to me. I mean, surely that's not the only reason. But if it were so easy, why is every other place still standing? Why did we get DM dissaproval when I came up with the idea to build docks far before the seige. Apparently ships were too powerful. I guess I know why, now.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Actually, yes. When the French king invaded Italy in the late 15th century. A few volleys from their cannons rapidly obliterated what I think was the north wall of an Italian city. But using a real historical example to explain what happened there is lame because there are so many variables it doesn't really apply. I was just answering to be a brainiac.

To your question, I have no answer because I don't even know what you're referring to.

Well there actually was a construction plan, with resources, actual RP, with outside parties including Wiltun involved. I believe the reason nothing happened was the same reason it took 6 months for the DM team to approve our temple as a place with basic magical wards. There was a disagreement between a DM and a faction leader which led to nothing being done until inevitably, the same DM blows the place up.

I'm just saying this; we've tried and tried.. and tried... and inevitably failed. Why do you wonder why we don't want to try anymore? It's not enjoyable knowing that your RP will go nowhere after it reaches a level that one can escalate as being "serious."

Further this, I spent personally four months investigating, actually with DM's involved, plotting a secretive attack against the war knight temple in the Quagmires. It was set on a arbritary date that two people knew in the entire faction. I know I didn't leak the date, and I doubt the High Inquisitor did either. So why was the entire server there when we went, and it turned from an interesting quest which might've failed regardless, to what I assume to have been massive metagaming, instigating a PvP bloodbath, and furthermore, the undoer showed up, for whatever reason and just tried to kill us only after we had defeated the server. Shit like this.

I'm going to resign posting on this topic, one; because I sound angry. I don't mean to sound angry, I intend to explain why evil is where it is today. Why the biggest evil faction has no inkling of desire to play ever again.. Two, so that I don't offend anyone, I just feel that when Tormak posts "It's already been addressed" it does make my head spin.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Well, I am a new kid on the block...basically, when it comes to the grand scheme of things here, I got what...4 months under my belt and a few days.

I can tell you this....

I have had PvP RP. I have had a pretty good Wedding/Romantic RP. I have had Crafting RP which was very little EXP and NO combat PvE or PvP. I have had assassinations where I was hired to off someone. I have turned DOWN alot more offers to off someone with RP. I have danced a fine line between good and evil and seen Krugan develop in a totally different way then I ever dreamed he would go.

This is in 4 months.

I have written long posts in the PC story forum...all of it recollections or RP done in game. I have left out more then I have written too.

I am currently being a thorn in someone's side, an annoyance to a few others, and have plenty of RP going on where I am still, very much, in the Neutral position tipping a bit to evil or good depending on the day...

Why?

Because this is Krugan. Its the RP he's gotten into...now...I know how I think the RP should end...I know how I set it up to end...we'll see if I can rattle some cages on BOTH sides of the island....so far, I know one side of the G/E axis has had some cage rattling done and the other side is scrambling wondering how to stop the cage from being shaken....lets that is the impression i get...who knows....maybe I am being set up....but honestly...where is the fun in KNOWING the outcome?

I got other irons in the fire too...still wondering about having a place set up for a shop/faction IG....I got banned from Khem and more or less the plans to become part of the Dale were sent down in flames...all good IC RP...and not one bit of ill will (so far as I know) on the part of the PLAYERS involved regardless of the way CHARACTERS are feeling.

The only real complaint I see so far in all this Good/Evil stuff is the end game is never an end game...there is no...finish...well...sadly, that is the foil to any persistent world. Be it NwN or a MMORPG.

At least here, with some serious effort, you can CHANGE THE WORLD....

Tarkuul rose from the sands....Bendir Dale got more defenses...Kohl was destroyed and rebuild (from what I heard)...there are still damages left on Cairgh though I was told ICly that the fixing of the blight kinda petered out....

But my point is...players CAN change the world here...and thanks to the DM team for that.

If you don't like how things are going...organize a big enough group of players on either side and try to take down a city. Its been done before.

Once you do...if you don't think you can hold it...blow the defenses...sow salt in their lands...call down holy fire to burn away the taint...consecrate the land so undead can't come back....summon a bigger, better blight to taint the land forever....in short...plan for you to be pushed back because, in all likelyhood, you will be.

No player that works in Tarkuul is going to let an assult on the LIVING CITY stand. Hell, the city itself will fight back.

Do you think the goodly people are going to let Kohl or Bendir Dale or Cordor go down and stay down under the iron boot of Bane or Undead?

All this talk has got me thinking now....should I actually pick a character that is good or evil and try to create a faction that will achieve this?

Or are there already ones here that I can actually rise through the ranks and make it happen?

Think I will make one...now, just need to decide G or E and how to go about it....lol...oh, and yeah...don't think it will be on the Simeron account...JUST to remove any baggage....in case there is any....

So...now you can all wonder which side I might appear on...if I do..maybe I am just blowing smoke...hmm?



My point is...enough yadda yadda yadda talk...let's work on something and see. I mean good grief...there is so many possibilities here my head is spinning....all you really need to do is work with the DM team to get the ball rolling I bet...we'll see...

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Ya see, long time ago, me father taught me somethin that be right true.
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices till they can't get it wrong.
Dwarves are professionals at what we do.

Massive rambling, but you missed the point entirely. Go for it though. The server could use a dynamic that isn't mind-numbingly dull, and who knows? Maybe you won't be the one who gets frustrated and quits trying after a couple of months because getting these things to happen is like pulling teeth, and the teeth are protected by dentist plot devices. Or you get banned. Or both.

The "whiny" attitude of evil players is pretty well deserved.

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You failed to pay attention to the very very obviously declared emotes where I said, several times, that they were magical (+5) sonic enchanted shot, as well as actual magic itself (ice storms, storms of vengeance from a druid, fire related spells that would burn mortar). You sat there and decided to take it and sit inside your castle and do nothing. Well, I take it back. One person did fire a spell back and heavily damage one of their three ships with an Ice Storm. After that you collectively did nothing else. I'm not really sure why. Mahtan emoted quite a bit in your castle for you regarding the non flaming and then flaming status of your castle. You proceeded to sit there and do nothing.

You are also forgetting the war Knight Trebuchets, ballistae and magic being thrown from the other side of the battlefield.

The fact that you are still angry about this years after it happened, and after this exact thing has been explained a whole bunch of times is quite a feat, and in the politest way possible, I suggest you move on. I haven't even touched on half of the things in your post that I could address because... well, it wouldn't be flattering to the faction, let me assure you, and I'm trying to not dig up that dirty laundry since we largely solved it in private.

Yoss may not want to throw Ron under the bus, or even name him, but I will. I was wrong for ever defending anything he did regarding the Black Caravan beyond being a store and I apologize for ever having a hand in any facet of it whatsoever. At the time I acted on what I knew and how I knew it and ran things faithfully as best as I can, and that's all anyone, I think, can ask for. You recall (or should) that I was the DM helping the Banites for that event, and I did everything possible to help you guys carry out the actions you wanted to do. What you didn't see was the DM messages, entailing something along the lines of a tell to a 3rd DM online about how Ron had spawned 15 more archers on a cliff you couldn't reach for seemingly no reason, or the whole... sappers thing and how he used them. They exist(s/ed), yes, but not in the wa he used them. But by that point the train is chugging along and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Ultimately it was a lot of "I didn't have the information I needed to properly act and bring Ron in line". But again, that's been hashed out quite a bit for those in the know.

Anywyas: Invoking "Black Caravan" this far after the fact is pretty much just like a guilt trip. You thought you weren't going to win on the actual issue so you invoked an old issue that you know has some unhealed wounds in an attempt to make yourselves look better,no matter how many times we've hashed it out with you. I don't really appreciate that as a DM, and as a player, I wouldn't appreciate my faction members constantly bringing up old stuff in an attempt to argue instead ofmoving on and looking towards the future and continuing.



This is the result of a catastrophic miscommunication between your faction and Machiaveli, AFAIK, and thus I cannot really comment on it other than I didn't really know about it until like after the event.



You should have PM'ed Peeves personally about this rather than bearing a grudge against him. I did a forum search but couldn't find much. I did find this, which seems to dispute your claim of "the entire server showed up", which happens quite a bit when the Banites cliam things I notice. I do recall this event, but Peeves is the one that runs it, so again, you need to ask him. It makes pretty clear though that they didn't see it coming. Let's be honest: The big Banite processions were not quiet affairs, ad it wasn't uncommon to see warning on both sides as soon as you guys started marching. This went for any big march of PCs and events. Anyways, here you go:





Let's see... Skull Crags, Cliff Castle... I guess you are counting Wharftown? And I'm not sure of the other one. I do remember a complete accident with 2 old DMs, but it got retconned and you got big apologies in your forum from both DMs (cosmikgirl and SirHorace), because they didn't realize the plot locked door actually had a destination behind it, since only an update before it was empty. But that was the Skull Crags one. I may be missing a base somewhere. I think it's disingenious to say there was "questionable DM involvement" though, depending on your context of the word. In the castle one there were 6 DMS available, 2 just for you, in order to do things. At the Skul lCrags one you had me, and did indeed utilize things to the best of your ability, but... well, I addressed this above. Wharftown is.. I could talk for quite a bit on Wharfotwn, but let us just say that "questionable DM activity" isn't on my list there, as Yoss can surely attest to given he's the one who helped you after Semidi abandoned you.



To roleplay? I don't know about you, but to me this statement is the epitome of (and forgive me for saying it) crybaby. "I couldn't win and your uzzle is to hard, so I'm going to quit the entire server and all the work I've ever done on here." Why? That's silly; you suffe rsetbacks sometimes. It becomes a roleplay hook to keep going. why make it so dramatic? Why turn it into you vs the DM ("Hi riddle was too hard, why should *I*") when it's really your PCs against NPCs and other PCs? This is a problem that runs rampant on both sides of the fence, all sides of the fence. You're so obsessed with the idea that your idea should work because you thought it up and wrote a lot about it. But no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it goes. But you keep going, you don't quit the entire server.

I guess that addesses most of your posts. But... if I've tended to learn anything over the year, it's that by and large the Banite players never seem satisifed by the answers, no matter how many times we explain it, or how many times we say "Meal culpa" if it's needed, and especially if those answers come from me.

So there you go, I suppose. In the future, if you want to pick at old scars, I suggest PMing the DM you had a grievance with, or failing that, just pick a DM at random. Lally works but the poor girl is overworked RL at the moment and spreading the complaining love could probably help quite a bit.

Hope this helped at all.

~~~


The whining on neither side is ever deserved. There shouldn't be whining period. As the guy up top, one of many, I can say that 95% of the time, the whining stems from one fact: The player(s) involved didn't have the big picture, so something "looks" wrong. That promptly explodes because the upset played tells their faction. Little facts get exaggerated (4 war knights vs "the entire server showed up) and from hen on all you got is second hand history that gets worse and worse.

Neither side should be whining.

Both sides should just be roleplaying.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

O, I think I remember the 4th base now. And I remember why it got cleaned out too, but I assure you, it wasn't questionable. Just a lot of work done by alot of PCs.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Well, since you're going to argue this, well, I will actually post.

Are you talking the temple that got blown up because it was accidently put into the module too soon? Either way. Three. Four. Five. One thousand. Doesn't even matter, it's just a ticking timebomb. If the players can't get to it, the DM's will.

There were about 30 people at the war knights event. You're right. There should have been zero. Just because we are Banites, doesn't mean the whole server should just show up without any IC reason to do so. We actually didn't march either. We took a hidden route and ran invisibly and in stealth.

Machiavelli wasn't even a DM at the time I started this ambition to build a dock. The problem with this is that it went the exact same place that Darthion's Cordor water supply poisoning plot went. Basically tldr; Too powerful, not possible. (Well, for evil of course), that, and it basically fell into the backburner while you flamed our entire faction with any waking opportunity you could. I remember posts basically saying that someone complained about dying or something, and of course, it was posted on our forums, but any time we raised any issue (i.e.) when I reported Wonwon openly abusing his DM powers on several occasions to MULTIPLE dm's I was completely ignored. Probably because I was a Banite.

Call me a crybaby, it doesn't change the fact that roleplaying on this server as evil is just a waste of time and energy. "To RP" is a sad excuse, and perhaps a drastic misunderstanding of what I actually did while I was setting up all of those plots. They didn't ever have a chance.

It's really no coincidence that my character was banned the night before the attack on the Banite seige. Partially because afformentioned event involving wonwon demanding someone to strip my character for extremely questionable reasons. (though the timing was not questionable).

Say what you will, but I'm sick of you saying you cleaned this shit up in private. AFAIK, you haven't cleaned anything up. You just keep blaming us.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

I'm not arguing anything. i'm posting what happened. I guess if that's arguing?



You can't bring something up as an actual point and then dismiss it when I clarify the numbers and the situations. I guess if you want to concede that point and say I'm right, then alright, go for it, but don't bring it up if you're not willing to have discourse about it. Since you refuse to talk about it and say it "doesn't matter" I'm going to assume this is no llonger an issue since I cleared it up and expect to not see it anymore in complaints in the future.

Though I think the last jab is unneeded and unnecessary and doesn't go anywhere towards fixing relations at all. It's just a vague threat intended to scare people that play evil. That's silly; don't do that.



I told you to talk to Peeves. If you're not going to answer or address what I posted, you can't just run past it yelling "la la la". If you want to discuss things and get things cleared up then you need to read what i'm posting, look at it and take it into account. I did with yours and went into forum archives to find answers for you, as well as suggesting DMs for you to talk to. But if you're just going to yell words at me, I cant help, I'm sorry. At this point it's your word against mine and we fall into the "Second hand history" bit. I was not present, which is why I suggest you PM Peeves about the issue, because he is the one who ran the event and could specify everything for you. Alternately, Selvec Darkon may be able to help now as well since he ran the War Knights and was present for that event. That would give you the War Knight perspective, and if you look at thir post I quoted, I assure you that they were just as unhappy OOC about the Undoer showing up as you were. Well, and about the attack in general. Look at it from this PoV: How fun is it to kil an "entire temple" when all you kill is 6 NPCs? What would your reaction have been if we let 30 TKs march into the Temple when you weren't there,k ill your NPCs and then wreck the entire temple in game? That's paramount to what you asked to be done to the Tempus Temple. I may add: You got it. the Temple to Tempus was destroyed and the War Knights left the island and have yet to really recover as far as influence goes after that attack.

I am rambling now though, so I will digress and go back to addressing more of your post.



You were not ignored. I mentioned Mach because she is who I recall when I think about the Dock stuff. I did a search and I don't see anything about the water poisoning thing, sorry. Is this something you worked with Yoss personally? If so, much of that doesn't get posted. The Cordor plot exists in his forehead, and were he to (god forbid) die tomorrow, no DM would have anything about Corodr or the overarching plot going there. It's just how it is. Anyways: The middle bit: Let's not mince words here, both sides (me and you collectively) are at fault for much of that issue, so please don't try to pin the blame solely on one side.

No, you were not ignored because you were a Banite. The issue is: When you got a reputation like the Banites developed over the years (both the deserved and undeserved portion) then it colors everything you do when evidence gets submitted. In the end, Ron at the time had no real markes against him (that were made aware to the DM team: It turns out very few people wanted to speak up because Ron was good at lying and outright manufacturing evidence, and they didn't want to be on his bad side. When he left the DM team it took all of 2 days to start flooding in and well there you go. Mea culpa, I don't think I can apologize enough for everything I helped and caused due to defending Ron over various things.)



So many variables are at play that I can't possibly answer this except to say: You seem to imply that because you didn't get your way, that it was a waste. Calling RP a "sad excuse" is... well, let's just say I don't go on an RP server to call RP a sad excuse for doing things.



I notice you don't mention that Mahtan was also involved, and present at the time for the stripping. Ron may have done a lot of things but he wasn't always a rogue DM: He did in fact do a lot of good and sensible things on the server and was, for most of the time, a very good DM and facilitator. Your stripping was also done over the course of quite some time and deliberated over by the entire DM team. To imply Ron did this all on his own is a bit of a misnomer. IF you're going to blame him for your stripping, blame all of us, I guess. Mind that I can't just post an entire DM topic here, so... I guess you take my word on things or do don't, though I suspect it will be the latter now matter how much I assert or lay bare my intentions.

Re: Your ban: It's silly to say that we banned you just to make sure the Banite castle died. Let's be honest here: If we wanted to do that, we could do it without banning you. But that's a huge slippery slope and a weird thing to base logic on. A whole lot of what ifs do not a good argument make. Suffice it to say: Your ban didn't have to do with the Banite Castle Siege. It did come up and the overriding opinion was "...well, sucks to be her, I guess, but we can't make exceptions because there's an event. People need to follow the rules". I do add that your ban wasn't unanmious, but it was a large enough majority by far to o allow it to go through. I fdo recall that dissention having it lowered to 3 days instead of a week though. Normally I wouldn't even go into this much detail, but as usual, you are the one who brings it up so I will try to clear it up.



I don't really think I'm blaming anyone here? Well, except maybe Ron, because we got actual proof on what he did... but unfortunately only far too late to do much of anything about it, something that's always going to bother me because I know I had a direct hand in letting a lot of it happen simply because I was ignorant.

When I say "cleaned up in private", I mean these are discussions we've had with the faction in avenues such as PMs, private forums, your own faction forums, MSN and etc. I am not sure how amany more times we can lay the information out for you in a clean manner, but if you don't want to accept that info, thats fine, don't accept it... but please don't come to our forums to try to incite a riot, or step on the people who are still trying to roleplay out their character's goals and dreams just because you feel you got treated unfairly. It's detrimental to the community to continually pick at these old scabs that the DMs have tried time and again to extend an olive branch over and clear up.

Look, hate us if you want but leave the community out of it. Don't smash them down. Don't spread the hate. That's all I really ask.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Is it particularly customary here to stand up and leave the server after defeat, or do something to get oneself banned? Is that where the banites, slavers, eternal order, and various other factions ive seen and RP'd with run off to?

Honestly i never meant the topic to go quite so far. I'd like to re-iterate that when i even bring up Good and Evil, i'm just using them as examples; a vehicle to try and get my point across regarding server-changes, DM plots, and the idle-ness of many of the roleplayers i interact with on a daily basis. Personally, i would give up any goal i have for a character if it meant giving everyone else a good memorable time (and i was entertained myself).

I've said before that i tend to try and create roleplay for others and be a catalyst morseso than go out and do things for my own characters, and this is something i did based on my work in other roleplay-oriented games. I feel that doing RP in hope for DCs to get some cool trinket or other thing is a dead-end street, and that i'd love more ways to facilitate random RP on a large scale without setting up some sort of special event on the forum that people must plan for.

You're all free to use this topic for the topic's sake, of course, but this is a rather hostile way some of you have chosen to go about it.

Hypothetical situation: If someone was to gather a bunch of folk and get a gigantic hole dug in Kampo's Storehouse where the leyline portal is, and then chose to fill it with spikes and acid, don't think the DMs would allow the making of such a thing, even if it made sense in how you did it. Folks portaling and spawning into a pit of spikes and acid continually would be evil, yes, but not good for the server in any real way. If i'm wrong about this, however, i'd like to request a shovel.

The EO is here, But our activity have dwindled drastically due to IRL reasons.


@ Needler - The amount of RP myself and five(5) other factions put together to get the siege in place was horrific. The resources accumulated, NPC's talked to and meetings arranged was excruciating. Can you look at it from our POV and then understand why i am a bit peeved about your statement here in the topic.

30 people may have showed up on the event itself, but i swear to god we had the entire server involved a while and it lead to the downfall of one massive faction. You went out with a bang instead of slowly fading away as many other - That's very honourable.

_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
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Hope to see you back in action; Interesting group of morally grey folk that still kept everyone pretty paranoid for awhile-- at least in the situations i took part in. Waste of a beautiful temple, too, if i may saysomeself.

57 people actually. It is the server record for most PCs in an event at the same time.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Also many people joined up on the run, "What's with the mob? Oh you're crumbling the Banite church to dust. Fun, let me join, I can cast EQ and have a torch."

_________________

UCE THIS, YOU COW.

Depends really. I dare say almost all Faction bases have been destroyed at least once at one point or the other. The Mystra Tower, the Monolith, the Banite Temple, the Eternal Order temple, the Grove and so on. Even many cities got it bad like Cordor or Nes'ek.

How people reacted and react always varies. Sometimes people get eager, RP flames up and people IC work on rebuilding, creating a new base in the same or a different area, asking people for help, plotting revenge or whatever.

Sometimes people feel after such a big event that something that once was has ended and that it is time to move on to other things... be in another character or making a turn in the characters life (changes faith because he/se is disappointed in his god, changing alignment because the event had such a huge impact on the characters overall point of view, joining another faction because they found new interest, or other things along the like)

And yes, of course some people might feel also disappointed that turn of events destroyed something they felt close to and they worked hard for and leave entirely because it was really the only thing that kept them on the server.

I would never generalize such however. People are very different and everyone reacts different to something like that. So I definately wouldn't call any of those options (or more options I did not even list) a customary of what people do.

_________________

I'm honestly somewhat enthralled by the story. Even from getting bits and pieces from Tormak and Needled. None of my characters were a part of the actual event-- BUT GODS, you had trebuchets? Boats?! And 57 active people slinging spells, preparing for war-- That's incredible! No doubt difficult to manage, and I'm sure that it didn't go to some people's expectations. But it remains that it's still glorious.

And I don't even know how many DM's you had working on that story, but from what it sounds like- It was a ton. Which is, in itself, really neat. It even gives me hope, actually, in my own evil projects and the potential for a well-staffed, well-constructed evil.

I mean, I'm trying to think of a tabletop event and 57 people sitting around it, all bug-eyed and ready for epicness. I'll admit, I giggled.

It's weird devoting so much to the individual actors in the entire "Play". We each love our characters, or our groups. And there's conflict, Drama, war, destruction-- And we feel down because our own character might have lost. Both sides of the spectrum feel this at some time. But we need to love the "Play" more than the actors, I think. Amia's story, as a whole. Have you ever tried explaining it to someone who doesn't know a thing about it? It's fantastic.

I'm glad you read any of our posts.



You banned the only two mages in the faction the day of the raid. You essentially did that. You just let some people watch it go down.



I was there. I remember it quite well. I don't need to read an archive to remember what happened. There were probably no more than 4 war knights and about 25 random uninvited players.



Is this really what's in your archive? LOL?



Paraphrased -> No, but yes.



Well I heard first hand Ron was actually forcing him to do it. Apart from this, lets see. During a training spar many months prior, I lended someone a sword that I sold to that persons alt more than 6 months later, mind you, for about 3 times it's actual value. Of course I forgot at the time. However, if that's the sort of bullshit Ron needed, then it doesn't matter. You all as a team ignored any common sense that that particular scenario was no better than gold getting shuffled around until 1 gold piece eventually finds its alt. Ron actually tried to argue with me that the greatsword was worth alot. It's as if he was being purposefully clueless. Why would I even do anything like that on purpose? What's to say you don't look at my transfer records and find something strip worthy again? I try extra hard-- I even refuse trades from people, but that won't ever stop me the next day I have to defend a temple against invaders.

Ron had great credibility too. He spawned about 15 unkillable rangers on top of me one time, near Bendir Dale, mind you, on an unaccessable cliff, for no reason whatsoever, and proceeded to have them destroy some of my loot. I never got a single piece of loot returned. Despite privately PM'ing more than 4 DM's about the situation. Maybe you know something I don't. Last I checked, what he did was DM griefing.

I think you're misplacing my hatred here. I don't hate the community. I still play on Amia. I just hate when people misappropriate why evil doesn't exist. Losing is just beginning of the bullshit you face.

I don't think I need to fix relations, really. I'm done playing evil until you tell me why you sat on any of our faction requests for 6 months with 25 bumps every week.

The ignoring of the Gulduround town for months and months (noone would even possess NPC's apart from rare times), while one person comes in and rallies them all in a massive town meeting, effectively undoing everything we were TRYING to do for about 4 months in about 45 minutes.

I don't really need to remind you that you tried to reject a request of mine because you were unhappy with our factions "recent events" A request that was completely unrelated.

Your post sounds on the defensive. Maybe you've changed. Maybe I'll get banned for posting this, but at least when every zombie falls out of the closet, you guys might start work towards making this a more dynamic server.

I just hope that the next person who rolls an open evil faction to thicken the plot of Amia receives bonus help to make up for the amount of shit the Slavers, the Cultists, the Banites, and every other faction has gotten.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Not just defeat, it comes when you realize being an antagonist on Amia means you get snubbed by the DMs, ridiculed and insulted by players on an OOC level, and to top it all off you never had a fucking chance.



The whole actor-play scenario would be much more fitting here if there were two acting groups, one of them with a director, and the other with a director who abandoned the project a long time ago.


Really? "Just roleplay" is your answer? Don't you think that evil players would be doing that if they found it to be a good use of their time at all? Oh, wait, they have, and the same patterns have been repeating themselves for at least well over a year now. Do you think its funto have your plots abruptly stop because there is a portion of the playerbase that will cry whenever the safety of their little sandbox is threatened by evil players? There have been players who put in extreme amounts of dedication into running factions that, quite frankly, take more time and effort than anything else on Amia to make work. The result? Almost every time, a severe lack of satisfaction or just frustration on how the server is ran as a whole.

People need to stop suggesting it is merely defeat that has driven off players from the server, it is more than just losing that causes people to give up. The Banites, for example, have been defeated many times, and it does put a dent in activity for awhile, but then it picks up... then after a few months, the faction leader gives up because you can't even install a lock on a door on Amia (true story).

People roleplay for fun, not for the sake of it. Look at the fucking server. NOBODY WANTS TO PLAY EVIL ANYMORE. Why? Well, most people don't enjoy getting shit on with no payoff, I hear. They will continue to get shit on unless there is a change in how Amia is ran. It says something when the majority of DM interaction with evil people is them trying to fuck them over. After the fifth metagaming accusation it started to become funny.

For all those people who complained about how evil was too in-your-face on Amia? Enjoy your ghost town, RP-hub, hand-holding carebear server, I guess.

What am I saying? Of course you're enjoying it.

_________________

I'm a former evil player. I gave up and made a carebear for the above reasons

Can we not have this ridiculous laundry washing again about the banite faction. Evil is hard to play, Period.

_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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trolol ... trolol ... trolol

Ironically I play a few up and coming evil characters and I've never been snubbed by DMs or players. In fact, until I semi stopped playing one (to focus back on my other charas, before anyone asks) I used to get a bunch of kudos for his wily ways.

Now, granted, in the grand scheme of things they haven't done much, but my currently active two are slowly worming their way into things and influencing on a smaller scale. After all, that's how you help.

I'm not saying for sure that Big Things will happen with them. My initial evil char has a huge goal in his crazy little noggin, and by God I'm going to shoot for it (eventually).

My other gals are going quite nicely. Inserting themselves into normal, every-day goody-goody life, etc. The less recent of the two is quiet adept at twisting words and spinning things in the direction she wishes them to go (but, then, people are gullible and she doesn't have to use much effort hehe). There is a lot to be said about a friendly face masking a cobra. Obviously my drow doesn't pretend to be a goodie-two-shoes, but that doesn't stop her from fooling those silly surfacers into letting her traipse along and get the scoop on their towns and such. Silly surfacers ;3



This as well.

Also, mfw this thread

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I said what I needed to say in this topic. Given that the replies were filled with the words "fuck", "Shit", "trolling", and "lol", I don't think my replies were recieved in the way I'd hoped, or being used to address an issue and resolve anything in the way I'd hoped. If you're not open to discourse and open to solving the problem (I'm here to solve and resolve a problem, not 'tumble zombies' or whatever....) then I'm not going to spend my time poring through old topics and things we've discussed several times already and repeating what I've said time and time again. I guess I will address a few of the minor things...



Please don't drag the community in and yell at them because you're dissatisfied.



This seems very disingenious to the rest of the Banite faction, to imply that because 2 people were banned that no other PCs existed. There was another mage there, btw, as well as a bunch of other clerics and spelcasters. I doubt the rest of the PCs involved on both sides appreciates the remark saying that because you and Dash were banned (I do notice you are the only two really complaining, as well), that everyone else may as well have been NPCs. I think that's an insult to everyone's work on both sides.



Well, I offered you Peeves so you could speak to the DM who actually ran the event, not so you could read old posts about the event. Normally when a player has an issue with the event, we refer them to the DM(s) who ran the event. That's what I was doing here, but if you're not willing to do that, then I'm afraid I can't help you anymore down this avenue. I did what I could here and now you need to go to the guy who actually ran the event if you want more answers, I'm sorry.



Well, I guess you could call it an "Archive". This is very much a post from a War Knight player who was involved in the event, the same as you were. But it's from the past so technically it is an "Archive", yes. I'm not sure why you're laughing at it? I just wanted to show you a post from the other side since I did some digging, and they were just as (un)enthused about the entire situation as you were.



What? That's not what I said at all. It didn't have anything to do with the event. I was explaining why people (and DMs) reacted so harshly to your faction over the years. And it kind of has to do with remarks like the pair of you have been making in the topic, as well as the inability to let things go and move forward.

Anywyas... Re: Your stripping.. I am aware of what happened because there are a bunch of screenshots. I cannot post them because there is a strict policy on not posting things from the DM forum. Suffice it to say: You tell a bit of a slanted story, and that I stand behind my decision and personal vote in the situation that I believe the character(s) should have been stripped. Not much else i can say here, I guess? I'm not going to post screenshots and DM stuff from the topic so in the end I say what happened and you accept it or not, but in ether case, please let it go and move on. All the rest of us has.



No, the issue was, more often than not, people knew something I didn't, and Ron was a good liar and knew how to cover his ass. I've apologized enough and covered that more than enough though, so let's not give that one any more air time.



This was addressed on your forums but I guess a public apology helps too: This was just us dropping the ball. We got involved in an internal argument and your stuff suffered due to it. I will add there was quite an argument when the other PC did the town meeting thing vs yours. It wasn't simply "wow, let's ignore the Banites". I will add that Guldorand never liked the Banites and only ever allowed you around because they couldn't do anything to stop you. After Wharftown, you weren't going to convince them otherwise.



OOC attitude and matters has always and will continue to play a role in the acceptance or denial f requests and yours was no exception.



I'm confused: The slavers/cultists (they're really the same thing, just they became slavers after the cult of orcus puttered out post plotline) got quite a bit of support, though admit we as DMs came down on them a lot (we came down on both sides) for PVP issues, but that's pretty standard far for a large scale plotline that involves PCs on both sides. PvP issues are the standard, not the exception. So despite the frustrations I had at the time, I don't really hold any of it against you on long term so long as they clean up their act, and for the most part they did.

But to say they "got shit" seems.. .well, untrue. Shadow and Mahtan were basically at your beck and call for the entire length of the Caraigh plot, and after that... well, let's just say the Slavers having free run for quite awhile is an understatement. I'm not sure what you mean by "Got shit on" in such a case. The Slavers did get kicked out of Underport once, but it's not uncommon for people to get kicked out of Underport if they're causing groups of people to come wreck the joint. Illithid do get testy after all. As for the Cultists: Well, to my knowledge, Caraigh is still filled with extra undead, and Ceyren's Mill is still pretty down and out, with the exception of like one lone PC working on things. They also caused Castle Blackmoor to be whooshed off by Orcus' Avatar. I'd say that's all a pretty decent lasting effect.

~

Lucky, I am not sure how to answer you because you are just angrily yelling, but not bringing up anything for me to address or talk about. You're frustratedly expressing an opinion that I disagree with, and disagree with because I've seen a lot of evidence to the contrary. I still see people roleplay evil and I see people roleplay evil quite well.

How do you recommend we "change how Amia is run"? This seems to be the broken record part of the argument. No obscenities and no "lol", please, I want an actually serious commentary and remark aimed at changing the server in a positive manner. "Letting evil win" is not a catch all acceptable answer btw, I would like a fully drawn out situation with possible solutions and avenues for both players and DMs to take so that we can collectively improve the roleplay and the dynamics, to use your word, of the server.



I would appreciate the details of this, but preferably in my PM inbox. IF you insist (as I suspect you might) posting it on the forums, then I really do need names of people and full situations, rather than a single italicized exaggerated remark that's designed to draw shock value over a minor issue. A minor issue surely not worth quitting over, btw, so it does seem a bit silly. Not to mention for awhile the DM team had quite public issues getting development related things done until we got Msheeler and Selmak available on the team, who were both pretty recent additions in the grand scheme of things. I searched for "Door" on your forums and couldn't come up with anything, so I'm not entirely sure of the situation there.

Hope this helped at all. Sorry if I'm not giving you the answers you want, I'm just giving the answers that are there and what happened.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I visited a locksmith. Actually involved rogues in the RP to lock the place under Cordor. After the RP was done and largely approved by a DM, 2 months later, it wasn't in the module, and random people stormed into our new hideout and took everyone prisoner in Cordor for 3 days.

Why do you think the other Banites aren't on this thread? Probably because they have better things to do than think about Amia. Or, conversely, are banned from visited the forums for contributing to the biggest evil plot (Mago) because of Ron.

Gurth was the one that asked for my ban to be cut down. I didn't really care. I think he did mostly everything he could to make people interested, but well, you said it all right there, there's nothing to argue. You were indecisive as a team to get involved in any of those requests until it became time to blow our place up.

I know you disagree. But I disagree with you, so I don't see any point in further debating that point. As for the public screenshots regarding my stripping of loot -- post them. You have my permission. It was just flat out bullshit either way you turn it.

You mentioned I should speak to Lali in an earlier post. I remember being in an event where we got killed (without any PvP warning even) and Lali showed up and I didn't say a single thing, and then you, Tormak, wrote to Darth "Apparently Mimiron was whining like crazy." I actually don't remember saying anything OOC at all, or even whining in the slightest. I just remember hearing the words "What do you expect us to do about it?" ... humorous indeed. Maybe you could strip or ban them.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Me and Ainjyll play, pretty much, evil exclusively and we got made DMs.

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If you don't mind some helpful advice to get a more active evil presence? As a DM and admin I've found that evil PCs thrive very well with the carrot on a stick method. Write up some fairly powerful NPCs for Zanshibon, Shadowscape and Tarkuul. Have them recruit evil PCs as minions, give them concrete goals and tasks, that are both reasonably doable and require discretion and subtlety. Offer some modest rewards for success and a heavy dose of ass-kicking for failure. Outsider servants of evil deities also work well, really give those clerics and blackguards reason to go out and lay down their God's will. I promise you evil will bloom, actually form decent groups, and good will do the same once they have a legitimate threat to stand against that doesn't revolve around mindless PvP