AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Fridays traditionally would have to be after 10:00 PM Eastern.

In this week's case it is an exception but it is a rare exception.

Gone till around 2-4am Central every Friday

DustSpray101 wrote:

Furthermore, if we continue to do things on days we all cannot be in game, it will be too hard to truly have all of us with an actual say if things aren't purely on the boards as things like votes and points within each general topic are so far being left out of the IC posts. Take for instance this past meeting. Would have been better to have a full house especially for meeting one and the voting that took place there in, not to mention it would have been nice to have been included in actual decision making after it was decided the board required no Provost.

I think it's quite clear that we're not going to get all seven of us in-game all at once, but I also think that if the consensus is that we don't want to do forum meetings, then I don't see why we have to turn to forum meetings. Someone was going to be gone for the first meeting, no matter when we put it. You didn't put your times into the doodle thing for this week, so we picked the one that matched up for everyone else. It sounds like you're taking it hard that you weren't able to come to the meeting, but thus far it seems there's no way to get everyone in-game.

I prefer having it in-game because then others can take part, too, such as Johari and Tauronemhet at the first meeting. It was nice. I have only once in the past five years on Amia participated in a forum-RP'ed meeting, and I didn't really enjoy it. It lacked depth and emotion, which are very important aspects of RP. And that's why I can't stand the thought of doing it for this. If this last meeting had been a forum meeting, I guarantee it would not have been as emotional or as inspiring. Interactions between characters lose substance when it's just posted on the forum and anyone who can't get on for several hours has to pretend their character was there through the whole thing and it just... It's not realistic or cohesive.

Maybe it's just me, though. I'll leave it up to the rest of you guys.

I don't know what to say. I'm not sure how to include the absent post-meeting or how forum meetings would work. I'll gladly go along with what the rest of you wish. Also consider my preference null, I'll do my best to be there whenever I don't have any other obligations IG.

No matter what we do, it seems someone can not make it. We may have to accept that we will not have full attendance. The best thing I can think of is ask someone other than Dusty to volunteer to miss the meeting. It would be best if everyone could be present, but, it is not realistic considering we are bringing together people from different groups in these meetings (Winyan, Mystic Blade, Cordor guard, Monolithers).

As for forum meetings? I do not like them. They are awkward at best, and at worst, they do not capture the flow and emotion of events as they would happen in-game. I would rather miss a meeting myself, then have it held on the forums. Just my two cents.

Why aren't you available late night on Saturdays Dust?

Think it's because of Draconic Beginnings.

That'd stand to reason actually.

Honestly, worse comes to worse if you can do it at a time I'd not be able to be on, I would be fine at times too. *nodnods*

Likewise I have no issue randomly missing things as it is completely to reason Bells get caught up in work, lost traveling, or sick on a boat ride to Kohl. Also I personally don't mind giving two cents in on forum topics if I would miss the meeting, Bells plus paperwork is kinda a wet dream. Even on the meetings times even if I say I am free, lord knows what can happen from point A to point B.

I would normally be more than happy to say Zelly gets caught up in something so that we can ditch a time where I mess it up for people, but... Uh... Yeah, nevermind.

Anyway, there are plenty of options. I think the way we're doing it works the best.

If I'm the only one who can't make it on a certain day I'd definitely bow out as well in favor of someone who already missed out. For fairness's sake, next doodle should feature all the week's days.

MoshingChris wrote:

Why aren't you available late night on Saturdays Dust?

Sylfwe wrote:

Think it's because of Draconic Beginnings.

Yup. It moved from Tuesdays to Saturdays as to better accommodate the players that are in it. The plot won't go on forever, but for the foreseeable future my Saturdays after 8pm Central are taken. I mean, I am fine backing down until my schedule clears, but formation is important and every opinion counts.

For instance: Eli would have voted for there being a Provost. What he would have said maybe would have swayed minds and opinions, but we will never know because you all decided to vote on it and move on. That is not inclusive at all and greatly effects the formation of the school. Eli was invited to be on the board under pretense that his opinion mattered. He can't have an opinion nor be on the board if there is no hand to be had in its decisions nor molding of the school's future.

Until we move from Formative to informative meetings, we really should have -everyone- on the board and otherwise 'invited' present and not be exclusive. The forums allow for this inclusivity despite our differences in present spare time. However, that looks to be a "no and unwilling to compromise" vote from at least 2 folks.

So, I leave you all 4 options:
1) Make things work so that we can all be IG for this.
2) Leave any actual voting on Formative things to the PC forums.
3) Ask me to back out/help me find IC justification for Eli to back out from something important to him.
4) Think of a better option.

Please decide, if you would be so kind, and get back to me.

We're also all under the impression that the reason minutes were written up was so that people who weren't there, Eli in this case, could read over them and see what was decided and discussed. If he has something to say about the decision, then he still can. But that should be an IC concern, not an OOC one. The characters also decided that it was okay to go on without everyone present, and that's the main problem I'm seeing here. It wasn't just an OOC decision. If he wants to revisit the topic with the others, then he can. I'm sure he knows that the others involved aren't so critical and exclusive that they won't even listen if he has a dissenting opinion.

But again, that should be an IC concern, rather than an OOC concern that we're not including you.

As a DM, dust, you should be understanding of the fact that players come first and be willing to back down because your schedule for DMing is more important than your schedule for PCing, and be understanding of the fact that sometimes you will miss things due to this responsibility. The world cannot possibly be forced to hold up and stop for you because you must DM. Getting uptight and mad at your faction members is hardly the example to be setting here. If you're odd man out after the players can sho up, so be it. That's how it goes when you DM with the privelege of still playing.

Tormak, I expressed my understanding in my asking if I should have Eli step down. No need for a lecture on PCs coming first. I am acutely aware of my responsibilities. Kindly read the whole thread or butt out.

Jes, it is both an IC and OOC concern. IC this sort of stuff happened before with the Monolith and Eli before I, Dust, was even asked to DM. OOC, I have very strong opinions as to inclusion in important decisions. IC, Eli has come to similar sensibilities on account of the exclusiveness the Wizards showed him when we were -all- trying to help save the Monolith as well as picking up more than a few ideas on it from the study of Mystra and her dogma. I believe some of that is in the Monolith forums and I will gladly go look them up after work if you would like.

Last edited by Jes on Mon, Nov 07 2011, 17:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Okay, was that really necessary? O.o

Let's get back on track with finding a good time for the next meeting. Dust, I would ask that if you have any further concerns about whether Eli will be included or not, send them in a pm. I'm a little disappointed that you took this so far OOC when it should have been a concern Eli lifted IC.

As far as the meeting goes, at least one person is going to miss out, either way. Meeting minutes will be posted, though, and any character can voice his/her opinion about the decisions, too (which has been stated IC, as well).

---

Edit: You edited your post after I posted the above. Just wanted to make it clear to others that my question of if what you said was necessary was in response to you telling Tormak to butt out, and not what you directed at me.

It's both IC and OOC. But as these are the OOC forums, my opinion as DustSpray belongs here. There is nothing to be ashamed of on my end.

DustSpray101 wrote:

Jes, it is both an IC and OOC concern. IC this sort of stuff happened before with the Monolith and Eli before I, Dust, was even asked to DM. OOC, I have very strong opinions as to inclusion in important decisions. IC, Eli has come to similar sensibilities on account of the exclusiveness the Wizards showed him when we were -all- trying to help save the Monolith as well as picking up more than a few ideas on it from the study of Mystra and her dogma. I believe some of that is in the Monolith forums and I will gladly go look them up after work if you would like.

I've never played a wizard at the Monolith, so I don't think you have to go searching for it to prove anything to me. Zelly knew what it was like to be left out, too. So do I. But I'm not going to drag it OOC and nor do I want to see it dragged OOC. It's entirely IC for certain characters to behave that way. Zelly has been trying to curb that tendency IC and you won't see me complaining about it OOC where it's not needed.

I may not like it, either, and I've said it to the players of those characters who tend to do that, but it should not be addressed solely OOC. Eli hasn't responded at all to the IC posts that have followed the first meeting. All we have is you complaining OOC about it, which honestly baffles me. I do understand where you're coming from, but I do not understand why you're making such a fuss about it in the meeting thread. It's far more IC than you must think it is.

DustSpray101 wrote:

2) Leave any actual voting on Formative things to the PC forums.

I think we should do this. At the meetings just share opinions and compile them into a bunch, and on the forum post them up for voting. Like we did with the name because a consensus was not reached?

First, let me say I am very disappointed in how this has played out. Everyone has been trying to bend over backwards to make sure as many people as possible can make the meeting. For over a week we tried. As for in-game meetings vs. forum meetings, I can't believe this is even a point of argument. In-game trumps forum for in character events. Always. That this would even be disputed by a DM perplexes me. And that we've been guilted into feeling like we should not have had an in-game meeting, again, perplexes me. I honestly am not sure what to say.

Surely you understand the difficulty we are having here, Dusty. And, that you would accuse us being exclusive because of an OOC matter, again, perplexes me. As for the whole Monolith being exclusive bit, I refuse to be drawn out in some OOC discussion about a matter that is, in fact, in character.

But to accuse us of exclusivity when we are facing difficulties of having meetings because of inclusiveness.. I just don't know what to say.

But its left a sour taste in my mouth.

I'd ask any further commentary that is not tied to the main topic of this thread - meeting times for the magic school board - be put into PM. Otherwise, I will request this thread be locked.

I can understand where DustSpray's coming from. Given the importance of the first meeting and some of it's key decisions, while yes it was important to have the meeting, it was also important to properly have Eli's input, because it could very well have shaped at the least the decision that had been made.

I can understand where Eli's concerns ICly would becoming from and honestly do not blame him. Admittedly, Tuomas has Goldfish moments when it comes to dealing with people at times but he does mean to see all walks of life included in the new school's thinking.

The fairest way because of the inability to get people all together in game at the same time, may well be to use the gathering of opinions and vote on the forums, but that would come with the caveat that everyone has to vote or clearly abstain.

Jes wrote:

It's far more IC than you must think it is.

Not so. It truly is both. The OOC issue comes from things I have learned mostly both running/playing PnP RPGs: The most crucial meetings for all players, no matter the group size and within a persistent narrative, are the first few. They meet, they bond, they can figure out what they all bring to the table (even the ones they may already know), and all can find their niche quickly within the group. This, however, can only be achieved if all are present.

Characters added later tend to suffer the fate of being cast aside or not as trusted by those that have been there from the beginning. No matter what their status within the party should dictate, they are thought of by those unfamiliar with them as outsiders. This thought leads to exclusion and such effects gameplay, as a whole, negatively.

I have witnessed this as a player, I have witnessed it as a GM, I have witnessed this as a third-party observer as well. The outcome is always the same no matter the venue for 18 years running. So, trust me when I say, it is as much an OOC issue as an IC one.

I didn't say that there was nothing OOC about it. I said that it was also IC. This is not the place to discuss the OOC problems, nor is it the place to discuss the IC problems. Most importantly, General Discussion is not the place for discussing an OOC problem someone has with a faction itself.

So this topic should not be used for any of them. If you want to bring up a problem, let's not voice it all over the forums. Instead, make a thread where the players involved can see it. Everyone on the board is being added to the Guild forums, so please take it there. I'd even ask that we clean out all of this discussion so we can keep this topic where it was meant to be.

I'll even go so far as to start an OOC topic in the Guild forums for us to use.

Yes, this is hardly the venue to criticize a faction you have OOC concerns about.

That being said, I'd recommend what Jes said: if you have issues about how the Monolith was run, voice it in the faction forum.

However, back on topic:

How is tomorrow, 10PM est for the next meeting? As Bells said he would not mind missing this week's meeting, and unfortunately, this week does not look promising at all otherwise.

I could swing that for sure.

As per the doodle it's fine with me.

I will not be present at the next meeting if even one other isn't until things are settled.

Please post here, then, Dusty.

Nivo wrote:

Yes, this is hardly the venue to criticize a faction you have OOC concerns about.

That being said, I'd recommend what Jes said: if you have issues about how the Monolith was run, voice it in the faction forum.

However, back on topic:

How is tomorrow, 10PM est for the next meeting? As Bells said he would not mind missing this week's meeting, and unfortunately, this week does not look promising at all otherwise.

Yarp due to deaths very likely I would miss it. Worse comes to worse something hAppens I dislike Bells sends very angry letters, he ordered 100pages for a reason!

I am willing to go now that it has been settled that any votes at meetings where all will not be present are going to be done on the forums, allowing even Bels, in this case, to have a say in the end result. It is a fair compromise between both sides and I am pleased that one was reached.

DustSpray101 wrote:

I am willing to go now that it has been settled that any votes at meetings where all will not be present are going to be done on the forums, allowing even Bels, in this case, to have a say in the end result. It is a fair compromise between both sides and I am pleased that one was reached.

Well you lot have fun, and stuff and stuff.

We'll miss you!

Wait!

Is this tonight? I got lost in all the jumble.

Tonight, yep.

Dang it!

I got this thing about about a boat in wharftown at 10. I'll have to reschedule with gers i guess... *sigh*

Okay, got the thing about that boat rescheduled...

You'll probably be frustrated with me for this, but it is somewhat amusing that the one with the completely open schedule is the one who bails at the last minute - though the reason is far from funny.

My cousin was in a terrible car accident and was recently rushed to the hospital, where they had to get a plastic surgeon to try to reconstruct part of the left side of his face - mostly his ear, thank goodness. Needless to say, I have a distraught family to tend to for the time being. He should be fine, but when doctors say he could go into a coma, people freak out.

Sorry, guys. =/

Completely understandable Jes. Hope your cousin pulls though okay.

Sorry to hear that Jes. I hope your cousin has a rapid recovery.

Eep! Same here!

Doubt I'll be at the meeting tonight. Got work in the morning. While this alone would not stop me from staying up late, I am suffering from a bad head-cold and should probably get some sleep instead of staying up late.

Have fun!

We'll be missing 3 people, sounds like a postpone to me.

The meeting can still be carried out. There will be a majority present, after-all.

I'll still hop on then and we can see who's present at the time of the meeting. *nodnods*

And Jes... >.<; Hope your Cousin's okay..

Nivo: *hands Chicken Soup over and patpats*

Bah, I can probably be on for atleast an hour, considering. Especially if people are thinking about postponing it.

It's not necessary for me, I would recommend that sleep and soup instead. It's just confusing after the lengthy discussion about importance of presences.

In any case, don't worry about it Nivo, go to sleep! The rest of us can discuss and post any decisions for voting on the forum like agreed.

New doodle! Sign up.

And don't mind the odd AMs here and there, every day is from noon to midnight.

Thanks for setting the next one up, Sylfwe! I won't know next week's schedule until later today.

Times on there still EST? Or GMT?

I'm not being sent to a schedule page ^^; has one been created?

DustSpray101 wrote:

I'm not being sent to a schedule page ^^; has one been created?

Odd, I was taken right to the page.

Anyway, times posted.

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