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[ 18 posts ] |
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san
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 7:32 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Just been reading up on Doomguides, who are servants of kelemvor seperate to the EO. It appears, and I may be wrong here as the source i cannot be sure of and i dont have any other literature, that thay have access to a few nifty spells. This is the source: http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/humangods/Kelemvor.htmOne being the ability to summon a 'Minor Death' an animated un undead skeleton weilding a scythe. Whilst this smacks of necrmancy i dont think it is, as they cant be turned and are not classed as undead. Im assuming that they are a construct. Now if this is the case.. would the idea of reskinning the Epic Summon shiled guardian be a possibility? Again im not sure of my sources as i dont have any PnP stuff anymore.. Can anyone shed some light on this or make a comment?
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 7:41 AM |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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You couldn't have it weild a scythe... Sadly. 
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 8:15 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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The Death Domain summon for Kelemvor already refers to that power, though it's not a direct translation. Not sure what their appearance is nowadays, but they used to wield scythes.
They're outsiders, not constructs. Well, at least common sense says so. They are servants of death summoned from another plane, after all.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gers
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 9:00 AM |
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Joined: 30 Apr 2005 Location: Kentucky, USA
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Yep. Iron's correct on that. They're outsiders who look like undead, but aren't actual undead (not healed by negative energy, etc.).
If you want an "epic" Kelemvorite summon for Mummy Dust, I'd go for the Geared Guardian golem reskinned into a Marut. Maruts are a variety of sentient golem called an Inevitable. They're charged with enforcing the laws of the multiverse, in a sense. A marut's specialty is pretty much the enforcement of the rule that everything eventually dies, which meshes well with Kellie dogma.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 9:25 AM |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Doomguides can't summon minor deaths. The class is listed in Faiths and Pantheons on pages 186-187-188, and summoning minor deaths aren't part of their skills, so the issue is void I guess Here's a link to the entire class as it's listed there, if you want to take a gander.
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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san
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 9:54 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Wow, is that image just realy impossible to read, or is my eyesight that bad lol... looks interesting, just wish i could read it. 
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 9:54 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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2e Doomguides can so there's no reason to assume, lorewise, that something has changed and all Kelemvorites have lost the ability. It is better to interpret rule updates as additions to the diversity of the faith. Perhaps summoning them is no longer a part of the compulsory curriculum of apprentice Doomguides, and it's an optional course some people still like to take. Though many old Doomguides would have been trained in the time when all Doomguides learned that power, in any case. And since Amian clerics summon them anyhow, that F&P entry is kind of moot as well.
Besides, 3e Prestige Classes are rarely good translations of 2e Specialty Priests. Prestige Classes tend to be rare and specialized, but many clergies had more Specialty Priests than Clerics according to F&A/P&P/DD.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Fri, Sep 30 2011, 11:07 AM |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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san wrote: Wow, is that image just realy impossible to read, or is my eyesight that bad lol... looks interesting, just wish i could read it.  save it. It'll allow you to zoom in on it. I had no problem to read it  edit: aw crap. Photobucket reduced it from 1.4 megs to 200kb. Will fix. edit2: page 1 2 3
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Sat, Oct 01 2011, 2:45 AM |
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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IronAngel wrote: 2e Doomguides can so there's no reason to assume, lorewise, that something has changed and all Kelemvorites have lost the ability. It is better to interpret rule updates as additions to the diversity of the faith. Perhaps summoning them is no longer a part of the compulsory curriculum of apprentice Doomguides, and it's an optional course some people still like to take. Though many old Doomguides would have been trained in the time when all Doomguides learned that power, in any case. And since Amian clerics summon them anyhow, that F&P entry is kind of moot as well.
Besides, 3e Prestige Classes are rarely good translations of 2e Specialty Priests. Prestige Classes tend to be rare and specialized, but many clergies had more Specialty Priests than Clerics according to F&A/P&P/DD. Amian clerics do not summon them anymore. That change has been around for over two years. They summon a homebrewn variety of Deathless to better fit with the four deities that allow repose/death domain on the good/neutral scale. Urogalan, Osiris, Kelemvor, Jergal.
_________________ I play: Gage le Gris Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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san
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Posted: Sat, Oct 01 2011, 14:40 PM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Ooo sounds interesting, where can i find info on the 'Deathless'?
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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san
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Posted: Mon, Oct 03 2011, 7:28 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Mosh wrote: Amian clerics do not summon them anymore. That change has been around for over two years. They summon a homebrewn variety of Deathless to better fit with the four deities that allow repose/death domain on the good/neutral scale. Urogalan, Osiris, Kelemvor, Jergal.
I'd really like to know more about these homebrew Deathless, i dont have the PnP stuff, so i'd appreciate some info on them, to be honest with you, it sounds awsomely interesting.. can someone fill me in or point me in the right direction?
Would it be a custom spell or a re-skinning of a non epic summon.
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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Grymia
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Posted: Mon, Oct 03 2011, 15:51 PM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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san wrote: Mosh wrote: Amian clerics do not summon them anymore. That change has been around for over two years. They summon a homebrewn variety of Deathless to better fit with the four deities that allow repose/death domain on the good/neutral scale. Urogalan, Osiris, Kelemvor, Jergal.
I'd really like to know more about these homebrew Deathless, i dont have the PnP stuff, so i'd appreciate some info on them, to be honest with you, it sounds awsomely interesting.. can someone fill me in or point me in the right direction?
Would it be a custom spell or a re-skinning of a non epic summon. Urogalan is if memory served the Halfling deity of Death and the protection of Graveyards. Osiris is the Mulhorandi god, Kelemvor's fairly more open and Jergal is the Scribe of the Dead who now serves under Kelemvor IIRC. None of these four are home brew.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Mon, Oct 03 2011, 15:57 PM |
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Joined: 09 Feb 2009 Location: England
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This is how Deathless appeared in Book of Exalted Deeds. First mention I think. I'm not sure what the homebrewing has changed. Quote: Deathless Type
Deathless describes creatures that have died but returned to a kind of spiritual life. They are similar in many ways to both living creatures and undead. However, while undead represent a mockery of life and a violation of the natural order of life and death, the deathless merely stave off the inevitability of death for a short time in order to accomplish a righteous purpose. While undead draw their power from the Negative Energy plane, the deathless are strongly tied the Positive Energy plane, the birthplace of all souls. In fact, the deathless are little more than disincarnate souls, sometimes wrapped in material flesh, often incorporeal and hardly more substantial than a soul in its purest state.
Features: A deathless has the following features.
-12-sided Hit Dice. -Base attack bonus eqital to 1/2 of total Hit Dice (as wizard). -Good Will saves. -Skill points equal to (4 + Int modifier, minimum 1 per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
Traits: A deathless has the following traits.
-No Constitution score. -Darkvision out to 60 feet. -Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charm compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). -Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects. -Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, or ability drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution) as well as fatigue and exhaustion effects. Unlike undead, the deathless are subject to energy drain. Like living creatures, deathless are harmed by negative energy and healed by positive energy -Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save, except for energy drain attacks, effects that also work on objects, and harmless effects. -Cannot use the run action. -Uses Charisma modifier for Concentration checks. -Not at risk of death from massiye damage, but when reduced to 0 hp or less, it is immediately destroyed. -Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect the deathless if they are willing. These spells turn deathless creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming deathless. -Evil clerics can turn or destroy deathless creatures as good clerics turn or destroy undead. Good clerics and paladins can rebuke, command, or bolster deathless creatures as evil clerics rebuke, command, or bolster undead. -Deathless creatures gain the same benefits from consecrate and hallow as undead do from desecrate and unhallow, and they are hindered by desecrate and unhallow as undead are by consecrate and hallow. Hide from undead and undeath to death also work against deathless. Detect undead and deathwatch also reveal deathless and allow the caster to distinguish deathless creatures from undead. Evil casters can be stunned by overwhelming auras of deathless creatures as good casters can be stunned by overwhelming undead auras. Use "undead" line in the detect evil spell description when deathless are in the area of detect good spell. Deathless are healed by disrupt undead and damaged by unholy water as undead are by holy water. Deathless are not affected by disrupting weapons. Spells that have greater than normal effect against undead creatures - including chill touch, magic stone, searing light, sunbeam, sunburst, and wall of fire - do not have these enhanced effects against deathless creatures. Deathless take only 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels from searing light. Spells such as command undead, control undead, create undead, create greater undead, and halt undead do not affect or create deathless creatures. -Proficient with its natural weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entries. -Proficient in whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Deathless not listed as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. -Deathless do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
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san
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Posted: Wed, May 16 2012, 12:55 PM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Well, it took me a while to dig this thread out (actually not very long  ). I would seriously like to start thining about a request to reskin my geared guardian to something more suitable (such as minor death or watchghost or einheriar of some sort) for my kelemvorite cleric , who has been assuming the role of a 'doomguide' for quite a while now. The geared guardian/merut just doesnt seem 'right' visually to me. And something unique might be pretty cool, i dont have many DCs but would be willing to part with them. I'll cut straight to the chase and ask a couple of blunt questions, perhaps a DM or two could chime in; Is it worth me working towards this (relating to the RP and evidence to be provided) or is it a no in principle (ie: these dont exist on amia)? My PC doesnt have the death domain. Any thoughts and advice?
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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Bini
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Posted: Wed, May 16 2012, 13:46 PM |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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My advice is just do the request and gun for it... It doesn't take that long to compile a good one from ingame RP and supplementary stories. So long as the lore is sound (which you should be affirming for yourself with a DMs help or otherwise) theres no reason why your reskin wouldn't prove acceptable.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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san
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Posted: Wed, May 16 2012, 13:54 PM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2010 Location: UK
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Thanks Bini, that's what i'm looking for, not a yes from a dm (because thats what a request frorum is for), but maybe one of them to pick it up and give me some lore advice on how it might work, if at all. Perhaps this is the wrong place, maybe a pm to a nice, fluffy and loving DM would be the best way forward. Anyone know any? 
_________________ San the Flower Man Terrora Tannith
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, May 16 2012, 14:15 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well my thought is that it's an ability granted to the Doomguide specialty priests. While they don't exist in our game as such, mechanically, there's surely an branch of the church still around who are Doomguides IC. I imagine a PC who wants to learn this would look up senior Doomguides to mentor him. That's kinda hard if there are no such PCs or NPCs around, but you could probably write a letter to some established center of Doomguide activity and inform them of your eagerness to pursue that path. Then you would commit to the rituals and duties expected of Doomguides and follow whatever instructions you might get in response to your letter.
Alternately, you petition your god directly and do some service or make some vows to him in return for such a servant. But that's kinda boring, because religious community and church hierarchy is what makes cleric RP interesting. Not some direct channel upstairs.
Lorewise, it might be easier than that. You might get your request approved with a good reasoning and a story. But it's always more fun to come up with something to do IC and involve other players as much as possible.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Gravemaskin
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Posted: Mon, May 21 2012, 5:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
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Doomguides are more like a WM spec for clerics though tbh, and given that they focus on the bond with the fatal touch as well as Kelemvor to grant them better undead punting powers, I don't see summoning a minor death as part of their skillset. Besides Doomguides are supposed to help ease the transition from life to death when it's natural, by dispelling fears and anger and replacing it with acceptance and understanding.. not summon death itself on them to make it quicker. I used to play a Kelemvorite Cleric and Member of the EO for about 2 years or so, quite a while back. So this is comming from experience in playing a doomguide-like character and mindset as well as research on the subject. The pages I listed above are still valid if you want to take a gander at the class. Gravemaskin wrote: I'd rather request an outsider type familiar that'd have connections to Kelemvor, rather than construct. If construct, I'd request for a Marut Inevitable skin since they share quite a bit of his undead hating. They also have their own model in the hak. 
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
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