AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I was wondering, as you do.... lets say a PC gets killed by another PC/monster.. maybe a bit of a 'hit' or something similar. Then they are raised/resurrected. At what point does their memories of the event stop and what is the level of detail of recall ofter the raise?

Not asked due to anything that has happened, just curious what everyone's take is on it? It always makes me cringe a little when people say, 'yeh and then [insert name here] chopped my head off!'

san wrote:

I was wondering, as you do.... lets say a PC gets killed by another PC/monster.. maybe a bit of a 'hit' or something similar. Then they are raised/resurrected. At what point does their memories of the event stop and what is the level of detail of recall ofter the raise?

Not asked due to anything that has happened, just curious what everyone's take is on it? It always makes me cringe a little when people say, 'yeh and then [insert name here] chopped my head off!'

I think the last few minutes at least would be gone unless something core shooking took place. Also I'd say chopping of heads in battle would cause less of a memory loss compared to unseen sneaky attacks or bludgeoning trauma.

But as always the individual pc is at liberty to rp this his way.

I always do it like this.

Say a Banite kills me. My character likely didn't see the face, or anything that could indentify the person, but he probably had enough of a foggy memory to remember green clothing, or something vagure. Not exact details mind you, but vague ones. Most of the time someone shouldn't remember their attacker, unless its logical. Like for example. They are in a room with only one other person and that person suddenly attacks them, then kills them. The fact that they were around the person for quite some time before the attack would make piecing together who killed them pretty easy. As they would likely remember the talk.

The idea isn't to allow you to wipe peoples memories of what they have heard or seen, but rather to wipe someones memories of being killed, so they don't just go gather a posse straight after and hunt down the specfic character.

Repercussion free PvP at its finest.

Oh yeah, I need to finish that post on memory...

Here's my take on it.

Feonir wrote:

Repercussion free PvP at its finest.

Only if your an idiot. If you don't go and ask anyone that might be around what happened to you, or start questioning people in the area who wear certain colours & such, then yes, its got no repercussions. But the world is a harsh place, and if you get caught alone, with nobody around and you get killed by another PC, then their should be little to no repercussion to the deed, as the person has effectively caught you in a vaunrable postion. Its all about tactical thinking. Someone shouldn't be punished for being smart about how they attack.

Thems the reprecussions of being caught in a vaunrable solitary state. The wilderness is a dangerous place after all.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Say a Banite kills me.

Always blame the Banites

I was just going to leave my snarky comment and be on my merry and it isnt that I dont vastly respect Selvec and the host of the other mysanthropes for all the free work (and it is work at this point) they do. (See tl;dr version at bottom to skip rambling.)

But really it is consequence free killing, it always has been, and while there is no magic bullet to stopping such this is definitely one heel step towards the wrong direction. IMHO which is of course worth exactly the price of oxygen which is to say it's everywhere, useless until you need it then theres always to much of it and it makes us high and lightheaded in certain concentraitions.

Incoherent rambling aside I draw certain ire with one group in particular that is to say, not the group but rather the race. The Drow. You take a society literally fueled by wanton rampant sexual deviancy and brutal treacherous regime change and upon importing it to amia lop off the sex and violence replacing it with a sort of carebare stare of dark flesh and heavily suggested petting.

Any and I do mean ~ANY~ PvP can be basically summed up as. "We rolled the dice after eyecontact, the loser bitched, called in support, was resurrected and nothing was solved." Or and lately, the following or, has taken ground on the first. It can be summed up as "We have a legitimate reason to fight, it's well rp'd up to the dice rolling point and after the dust cleared...backup arrived anyway as it makes sense and no MGing was done to bring it and we all go away alive..or slaves which has literally ZERO impact on our characters aside from having to kneel a mite from time to time for about oh a week."

In a world where death is as overworked as my wrist and given as many souls to carry into the great beyond as people throw RP tantrums and simple plan suicide / semi-honorable but really awkwardly shoehorned death sentences allow for, I just dont see a point to saying anything but what really happens. You are aware as you are alive until you are no longer alive. How is it that the flesh can be fixed so readily but the moment these grizzled war harded multiple grim reaper spotting fellows are so much as nudged on the head its amnesia city? To summarise for those of you with ADHD the tl;dr version is just below this line.

It all always just smacks of "We have no better choice so here is a thing. Since all of us are effectively immortal, that is to say, until suffering cutscene mortality and stupidity because of a nice shiny (DM) tag telling us. 'BUT THOU MUST.' " I think it can be done better I just have no fathom as to the how or why nor do I have any call on anything more then the tripe I just vomitted out above. Because I do lack that very shiny tag that says I have a licence to fuck up your day in the name of adventure.

Feonir wrote:

I was just going to leave my snarky comment and be on my merry and it isnt that I dont vastly respect Selvec and the host of the other mysanthropes for all the free work (and it is work at this point) they do. (See tl;dr version at bottom to skip rambling.)

But really it is consequence free killing, it always has been, and while there is no magic bullet to stopping such this is definitely one heel step towards the wrong direction. IMHO which is of course worth exactly the price of oxygen which is to say it's everywhere, useless until you need it then theres always to much of it and it makes us high and lightheaded in certain concentraitions.

Incoherent rambling aside I draw certain ire with one group in particular that is to say, not the group but rather the race. The Drow. You take a society literally fueled by wanton rampant sexual deviancy and brutal treacherous regime change and upon importing it to amia lop off the sex and violence replacing it with a sort of carebare stare of dark flesh and heavily suggested petting.

Any and I do mean ~ANY~ PvP can be basically summed up as. "We rolled the dice after eyecontact, the loser bitched, called in support, was resurrected and nothing was solved." Or and lately, the following or, has taken ground on the first. It can be summed up as "We have a legitimate reason to fight, it's well rp'd up to the dice rolling point and after the dust cleared...backup arrived anyway as it makes sense and no MGing was done to bring it and we all go away alive..or slaves which has literally ZERO impact on our characters aside from having to kneel a mite from time to time for about oh a week."

In a world where death is as overworked as my wrist and given as many souls to carry into the great beyond as people throw RP tantrums and simple plan suicide / semi-honorable but really awkwardly shoehorned death sentences allow for, I just dont see a point to saying anything but what really happens. You are aware as you are alive until you are no longer alive. How is it that the flesh can be fixed so readily but the moment these grizzled war harded multiple grim reaper spotting fellows are so much as nudged on the head its amnesia city? To summarise for those of you with ADHD the tl;dr version is just below this line.

It all always just smacks of "We have no better choice so here is a thing. Since all of us are effectively immortal, that is to say, until suffering cutscene mortality and stupidity because of a nice shiny (DM) tag telling us. 'BUT THOU MUST.' " I think it can be done better I just have no fathom as to the how or why nor do I have any call on anything more then the tripe I just vomitted out above. Because I do lack that very shiny tag that says I have a licence to fuck up your day in the name of adventure.

Actually there is an explanation. When your raised in PvP you actually get a host of penalties, memory loss is one of these penalties. While we choose not to mechanically implement the penalties associated with being raised, the memory loss has always been something of a lightly enforced thing. Mind that I haven't actually seen an instant where a DM has been forced to pull this out and use it. We generally roll with whatever has been remembered, or not remembered, according to the players, unless there is some metagaming involved. Its not actually a rule either to my knowledge that someone must lose their memory, its more of a good conduct thing.

So there is a PnP standard for it. I forget the technical terms used by D&D for it.

Let's pretend that death is a major system shock and one you can't just shrug off. You DIED. That should have some kind of ramification. Call it rez sickness or displacement syndrome or whatever, but your brain is nooot going to be up to full function in the STM (short term memory) biz. Pair that with the fact of "first in, first out" and you should remember precious little. It's why death causes XP loss.

Actually in standard PnP, the level loss/-2 con drop is not tied to memory loss, but great strain on the soul and body. The effect is compared to being hit by an energy draining creature in the raise dead's description. Spellcasters also loose a random spell upon being raised in addition to the standard effect, as if the spell had been used. Were that tied to memory loss in some way, natural spellcasters would have actually lost the spell, not a random use of that spell's level.

The memory loss thing is unique to Amia to my knowledge, and it's not enforced (not that I've seen anyway. Could have changed). I think the reason it came into existance in the first place as a norm, was to give cause for the rule about not chasing down people immediatly after being killed. And because some people were complaining about metagaming when people ignored their disguises or change of clothes after murdering someone.

Given the fact that most people will just get up and charge into battle again the second they are raised, and memory loss is RPed rarely and very inconsistently in terms of what's lost and remembered.. I think the norm is fairly arbitrary and really is up to each individual player to decide what they want to do with it as flavor for their RP.

Feonir wrote:

I was just going to leave my snarky comment and be on my merry and it isnt that I dont vastly respect Selvec and the host of the other mysanthropes for all the free work (and it is work at this point) they do. (See tl;dr version at bottom to skip rambling.)

But really it is consequence free killing, it always has been, and while there is no magic bullet to stopping such this is definitely one heel step towards the wrong direction. IMHO which is of course worth exactly the price of oxygen which is to say it's everywhere, useless until you need it then theres always to much of it and it makes us high and lightheaded in certain concentraitions.

Incoherent rambling aside I draw certain ire with one group in particular that is to say, not the group but rather the race. The Drow. You take a society literally fueled by wanton rampant sexual deviancy and brutal treacherous regime change and upon importing it to amia lop off the sex and violence replacing it with a sort of carebare stare of dark flesh and heavily suggested petting.

Any and I do mean ~ANY~ PvP can be basically summed up as. "We rolled the dice after eyecontact, the loser bitched, called in support, was resurrected and nothing was solved." Or and lately, the following or, has taken ground on the first. It can be summed up as "We have a legitimate reason to fight, it's well rp'd up to the dice rolling point and after the dust cleared...backup arrived anyway as it makes sense and no MGing was done to bring it and we all go away alive..or slaves which has literally ZERO impact on our characters aside from having to kneel a mite from time to time for about oh a week."

In a world where death is as overworked as my wrist and given as many souls to carry into the great beyond as people throw RP tantrums and simple plan suicide / semi-honorable but really awkwardly shoehorned death sentences allow for, I just dont see a point to saying anything but what really happens. You are aware as you are alive until you are no longer alive. How is it that the flesh can be fixed so readily but the moment these grizzled war harded multiple grim reaper spotting fellows are so much as nudged on the head its amnesia city? To summarise for those of you with ADHD the tl;dr version is just below this line.

It all always just smacks of "We have no better choice so here is a thing. Since all of us are effectively immortal, that is to say, until suffering cutscene mortality and stupidity because of a nice shiny (DM) tag telling us. 'BUT THOU MUST.' " I think it can be done better I just have no fathom as to the how or why nor do I have any call on anything more then the tripe I just vomitted out above. Because I do lack that very shiny tag that says I have a licence to [removed] up your day in the name of adventure.

+1

Selvec Darkon wrote:

Actually there is an explanation. When your raised in PvP you actually get a host of penalties, memory loss is one of these penalties. While we choose not to mechanically implement the penalties associated with being raised, the memory loss has always been something of a lightly enforced thing. Mind that I haven't actually seen an instant where a DM has been forced to pull this out and use it. We generally roll with whatever has been remembered, or not remembered, according to the players, unless there is some metagaming involved. Its not actually a rule either to my knowledge that someone must lose their memory, its more of a good conduct thing.

So there is a PnP standard for it. I forget the technical terms used by D&D for it.

Now that you mention it I do recall such a thing myself during the dark days of infancy but the problem in those days was, and goddamn it for having to pull the 'In my day' horseshit, was the fact people literally were the inverse of this where in if we didnt legislate some kind of mandatory mind fucking post coitu-er death they would immdiately upon ressurection mount up and ride on out on the S.S Good Vengence, which lead to more and more PvP until we had this katamari like ball of honor killings that would make a middle eastern man blush.

Admitedly it has seemed like the server has aged quite nicely since those horrific wonder years but until there is such a mechanical penalty vis a vee the loss of xp on death, diminished stats that require magic to whisk them away post dead state or any other mechanic, it just feels tacked on like people injuring themselves with the rest menu then making up a story about getting attacked to have more attention heaped upon them. (I shit you not ive seen this happen.)

Though I do vastly, vastly, oh so vastly appreciate the mature responses that make me look like some derranged ponce and not the knee jerk reaction to just say "No fuck you! This is how it is!". Also you show me an instance where NWN is exactly like PnP and ill show you a table with books on it your mistakenly calling a pc.

You'd be surprised. While a good percentage of the server has aged in terms of pretty much every other area, in PvP, people still manage to degenerate into insulting spitting Xbox Live gamers. I'm not sure what it is about PvP, but I've seen some of the best RPers suddenly just snap for no reason and do some entirely douchey things that is completely against their behaviour in every other aspect. Something about PvP brings out the worst in players, and while I'd love to say that someone wouldn't jump up immediatly after raise dead and pursue the vengeance path, fact is I know they would, and still do. I'm not going to point fingers, but there is a specfic group of players (not a faction, just a group of individual players) that seem to take losing in PvP extremely badly.

Anyway, its not a server or PvP rule I believe. But it is something I as a DM may pull out to personally stop any meta-gamey crap, or PvP rule breaking if I feel the need.

After a DM plot that had skeleton's piloting living F-16's made of dinosaurs I tend to have an easier time of supressing the "Did that just happen?" reflex, as it is I know exactly what you mean, hell even when I PvP I turn into this snarling asshole because in my mind eye its my character which means he is Goku, on PcP and losing never fits any narrative unless he gets to turn blonde and murder a planet.

Which is why I just cant fathom anyone with an evil alignment, okay, lets say they do win, what then? Unless you are the kind of pseudo evil that just wants to be rich and an asshole winning means you murder all challenges forever and a day. You literally are playing a side who HAS to lose else we might as well pull the plug on the server and start up a CS:S server or something equally useless like four assholes on a skunk. But this was a tangent and I think im coming down from all the heroin at work.

In short, I enjoyed this topic but like the dead horse I so often enjoy braining with blunt instruments I think im out of anything resembling input that wouldnt relegate this topic to the miasma of productivity loss that is the OT forum.

I love reading your responses feonir... <3

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