AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Very_Svensk wrote:

Rogues get bonus feat on level 10-13-16. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue Source
Go 15 Rogue / 5 Fighter Pre-Epic. Keep rogue 16 for Epic and use the Feat on something better than crippling strike since you're going crossbow.

Rogue bonus feats (You need em for Epic dodge)

For HS levels you need Alertness + Ironwill. http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Harper_scout Source and Prerequisite feats / Skills.

You do best to grab Harper scout levels in Epic, Because at level 1 and 5 you get extra feats. Below are some examples

Quote:

Hint: When Harper scout levels are taken after level 20, more feat choices (besides curse song and favored enemy) are available as bonus feats at class levels 1 and 5. The full bonus feat list is: curse song, epic skill focus (all but animal empathy, perform, use magic device), epic will, favored enemy, great charisma, great dexterity, improved combat casting, and lasting inspiration.

For a cross-bow user you need Rapid reload http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Rapid_reload Source
Imp.Crit
Blind fight
Weapon focus (Epic weapon focus in Epic).

The typical build layout would be
1-15 Rogue
15-20 Fighter

Feats

(I suggest Called shot)

I don't know what type of feats you want in epic or anything, so im going to wait giving you the Epic setup. What was your concept? What skills are you planning to take etc?

Edit - Thanks Paladin. I forgot about halfway that he was going Crossbow.

welll obviously take move silently, hide, umm I would like spot but I dont know if I could get it high enough to be of any use. UMD, open lock and tumble (this is what I would take, I dont know if thats any good I have been pplaying nwn for years but like i said im useless at building :p)

I have been toying with the idea of a paladin of something other than the "usual". Does Isis accept paladins? I saw that Horus-Re does.

Yes, keep in mind it's an entire other pantheon with a cultural background. Looking forward to seeing your PC around Khem. :wink:

Yes, the wikia said that Her clerics are usually Mulan but that some half-elves also join. Is there someplace where the lore is a bit less...sparse-and-4e?

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=34438

Lore info is mostly taken from the 2E sourcebook 'Old Empires'.

Is there currently a church of Isis? As in, are there members? I don't mind clerics, though I'm not sure, given her description and domains, if it would be appropriate for a cleric to "hunt" their way to 30.

Not that I know of. Mosh (when he gets a decent PC) and myself hang around in Khem with various mulan-themed characters. I have a pally of Isis but I haven't been around much in Khem lately, so I don't know if there are other characters, especially outside my timezone.

Better continue in the lore topic, anyway.

JackyHX wrote:

welll obviously take move silently, hide, umm I would like spot but I dont know if I could get it high enough to be of any use. UMD, open lock and tumble (this is what I would take, I dont know if thats any good I have been pplaying nwn for years but like i said im useless at building :p)

You're on the right track baby, you were born that way.

Ahem, anyway, you're spot on. However, do grab Discipline as well. Terribly handy for not landing down on your bum all the time.

Out of pure curiosity, what are the mechanic differences between HiPS and invisibility?

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Hide_in_plain_sight
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Invisibility

I probably should have been clearer. I was wondering if there were any particular nuances in addition to said wiki.

Wiki=nuances

lol ok ok, hypothetical scenario - say you had an item that made you invisible (regular, not improved invisibility) as soon as it was equipped such as a ring without having to activate anything, which would be better out of that or HiPS?

Why do you post such a scenario? There's not gonna be an item like that on Amia. What do you think is easier to get, a scroll of see invisibility or 100+ ranks in spot? A skilled player won't care either way probably and just counter it somehow or flee.

If someone has high spot, and no see invis, then invis works. If someone has Low spot and see invis, HiPS will work.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

JackyHX wrote:

welll obviously take move silently, hide, umm I would like spot but I dont know if I could get it high enough to be of any use. UMD, open lock and tumble (this is what I would take, I dont know if thats any good I have been pplaying nwn for years but like i said im useless at building :p)

You're on the right track baby, you were born that way.

Ahem, anyway, you're spot on. However, do grab Discipline as well. Terribly handy for not landing down on your bum all the time.

okey doke thanks for the help

Blackdragon12121 wrote:

Out of pure curiosity, what are the mechanic differences between HiPS and invisibility?

I believe the engine just works out whether [A] can see [B] and if the answer's No, then all the effects are the same. So, in the sense I think you mean, HiPS/stealth, Invisibility, being-inside-Darkness and GS have no difference, it's just that the thing that means [A] will see [B] is Spot/Listen, See Invisibility, Ultravision and Bioware's default True Seeing, respectively.

If the answer's Yes, then the wacky exception is that if [A} was stealthed and [B] detected them via Listen, then they're still flagged as invisible, but you as a player can see them. They way they implemented that is the halfshaded VFX, and that you can click them for ranged or melee attack so you won't be flatfooted, but you can't target with spells; they still get Sneak Attacks on the first flurry out. The same thing applies to [B] being Blinded and [A] being in melee range: [A] can be hit, but every attack of theirs will be a Sneak. If they step back a little, then they're under the same mechanic as the rest. I think.

Uberuce wrote:

If X equals Y, then providing Z is +5 compared to V minus 2, you should have T, unless C more than +4, bla. bla.

Have you been drinking again, Ruce

Certainly not!

*snorts coke off a mirror*

On a more serious note:
Since my dwarven defender blows, I toyed with a wm warrior instead.
Choices:
1: 18fighter/7wm/5rogue (49ab)
2: 10fighter/16wm/4rogue (52ab)
3: 10fighter/16wm/4rogue, 2nd edition (50ab)

They are all STR based and all have the standard warrior feats using warhammer/shield and then:
1 got Dev Crit, great fort and epic fort
2 dont but got imp KD, (and highest ab)
3 got Dev Crit but none of the fort feats or KD

If I had liked a sword the dev crit route was given, but I love hammers I havent found a monster with bludgeoning resistent yet, but there is alot with slashing/piercing I know. Str based and wm lvls means a hammer will dish out 150-200 dmg a crit, so maybe dev crit isnt nessesary?

This build is (as always) not with pvp in mind.
Comments?

Yeah. What race is it?

And if you are going STR based on a WM, you got plenty of feats to net Dev.crit... It would just be stupid -not- taking it.
Consider armor skin, too, it's decent to have.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Yeah. What race is it?

And if you are going STR based on a WM, you got plenty of feats to net Dev.crit... It would just be stupid -not- taking it.
Consider armor skin, too, it's decent to have.

Its a earthy, and he has all the warrior feats, also in epic, will end with the standard 51 in AC.
With this build I dont rate KD very high, hes supposed to be a brute so its more: "I hit you, you hit me, lets see whos left standing"

With raw damage like that, Devcrit is skippable from PvM, although the pre-requisites are all really nice:

Power Attack: On that kind of uber AB, you'll often find it's a no-brainer to trade some of it for damage.
Improved Critical: A must-have for every combatant
Cleave: In theory it's grand, but it simply doesn't work when you get more than one attack per flurry and the fatal strike is on the first one: when Hasted, that means 33% of the time from level 16 onwards.
Great Cleave: From levels 4-8 it's amazingly good because you can kill six monsters in the same time you'd otherwise killl one. From then on it simply fixes the problem with Cleave.
Overwhelming Critical: if nwnwiki is to be believed, the description is wrong and it actually adds Xd6 to your crits, where X is your multiplier. I think nwnwiki's right. So for a hammer WM, that's ~14 per crit. If you compare how enthusiastic builders are about Epic Weapon Spec's flat 4 per hit to ~14 once every four hits, you see it's pretty good.

Change your mind about KD; it's about as central to NWN combat as bullets are to real life warfare.

On all three of those, the 49 AB on up, you can run Power Attack all day and see pretty much no decrease in your hits. Even more if you go the 50 or 52 route. IT's free damage at that point. Hell, at the 52 end you can almost run Improved Power attack.

Ok, thx for the imput guys.
I made a few changes and can now include both dev crit and imp KD.
Will be the good old 12f/16wm/2rog, both rogues taken in epics.
Not a complicated build but I feel like playing a easy-to-go guy..

Can also try the Rogue/Fighter/WM Route? Whacks some booty, too.

this oughta be maybe the most oldest build here to be asked:
dragon druid, feats, multiclassing and other stuff for it?

TeroSNS wrote:

this oughta be maybe the most oldest build here to be asked:
dragon druid, feats, multiclassing and other stuff for it?

Depends if you want the 'Dubble dragon build' or just the 'Dragon build'

Very_Svensk wrote:

TeroSNS wrote:

this oughta be maybe the most oldest build here to be asked:
dragon druid, feats, multiclassing and other stuff for it?

Depends if you want the 'Dubble dragon build' or just the 'Dragon build'

uhhhh...explain please?

Dubble D = Dragon Shape and Dragon summon.
Normal D = Dragon Shape and no Dragon Summon.

The Dubble D is only available for best made with Ffolk or Mulans, since they get the X-tra wisdom and no ECL

Edited!

I have an old aasimar double dragon druid...

Very_Svensk wrote:

Dubble D = Dragon Shape and Dragon summon.
Normal D = Dragon Shape and no Dragon Summon.

The Dubble D is only available for best made with Ffolk or Mulans, since they get the X-tra wisdom and no ECL

Edited!

I see, can I have the basics of both, please?

double dragon xD nice concept.

so...edk -and- dragonshape? how?? you need to take great wisdom -all the way- through to 30..?

ed: O i c, subracial dodgery. (ie start on at least 20 wis. for those who have not build druids before.)

Last edited by Ulir on Wed, Apr 27 2011, 22:41 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Double Dragon (Ffolk version)
Druid 28/Ranger 1/Rogue 1

Str: -
Dex: -
Con: -
Int: 12
Wis: 19-30
Cha: 8

Skills (232):
UMD 31
Spot 32
Heal 14
Tumble 30
Spellcraft 29
Discipline 32
Concentration 33
Animal Empathy 1 (just an example)

1 D - Feats: Great Fortitude, Extend Spell
2 D
3 D - Feat: Empower Spell
4 D - Wis: 20
5 D
6 D - Feat: Spell Focus: Evocation
7 D
8 D - Wis: 21
9 D - Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
10 D
11 D
12 D - Feat: Spell Focus: Conjuration, Wis: 22
13 D
14 D
15 D - Feat: Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
16 D - Wis: 23
17 D
18 D - Feat: Blind Fight
19 D
20 D - Wis: 24
21 D - Feat: Epic Spell: EDK
22 D
23 D
24 D - Feats: Great Wisdom I+II, Wis: 27
25 D
26 D
27 D - Feat: Great Wisdom III
28 R - Wis: 29, Skill dump
29 R - C.Feat: Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration, Skill dump
30 D - Feats: Great Wisdom IV, Dragonshape

Sweet! I Just waited long enough and somebody else wrote it instead of me!

thanks a bunch, I think I can derive my own character from that.

Last edited by Ulir on Thu, Apr 28 2011, 9:47 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I liked the old threads were people posted builds to look at. So here goes.

A dogey-druid-sneakity-kama-wielder.

Rogue 19/Fighter 6/Druid 5

Str: -
Dex: 19 - 26 (38)
Con: -
Int: -
Wis: -
Cha: -

AB: 40 (dual wielding with +4 weapons ~ 42 in wilderness areas)
AC: 48 (without shield ~ 52 with haste ~ 58 with shield and haste)

1 R - Feats: Ambidexterity, Strong Soul, +1d6 Sneak
2 R
3 R - Feat: Weapon Finesse, +2d6 Sneak
4 F - Feat: Two-weapon Fighting, Dex: 20
5 R
6 F - Feat: Blind Fight, Weapon Focus: SICKLE
7 R - +3d6 Sneak, 3rd Attack Per Round
8 F - Dex: 21
9 F - Feats: Toughness, Weapon Specialization
10 R
11 R - +4d6 Sneak
12 R - Feat: Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Dex: 22, 4th Attack Per Round
13 R - +5d6 Sneak
14 R - C.Feat: Crippling Strike, 5th Attack Per Round
15 R - Feat: Improved Critical: SICKLE, +6d6 Sneak
16 R - Dex: 23
17 R - C.Feat: Improved Evasion, +7d6 Sneak
18 R - Feat: Great Fortitude
19 R - +8d6 Sneak
20 R - C.Feat: Defensive Roll, Dex: 24, 6th Attack Per Round
21 R - Feat: Improved Sneak Attack, +10d6 Sneak
22 D - Animal Companion, Nature Sense
23 D - Woodland Stride
24 D - Feat: Epic Weapon Focus, Dex: 25, Trackless Step
25 D - Resist Nature's Lure
26 D - Wild Shape 1/day (animal)
27 R - Feat: Epic Dodge, Skill dump (tumble 30)
28 F - Dex: 26
29 F - Feat: Epic Weapon Specialization, Skill dump (disc 32)
30 R - C.Feat: Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, Feat: Armor Skin, +11d6 Sneak

You net +3 Fort and Will saves at the expense of 3 Reflex by taking 4 of your Druid levels pre-epic. I also think you'll get more mileage out of shortswords, or something with a better crit range. I know the point is to deliver sneak damage, but extra from crits never hurt anyone (except your target).

I'm sure someone will tell you to drop Druid for Monk (I almost did), but the druid is obviously for flavor / RP...so do yo thang.

Ulir, you need Exotic Weapon Proficiency, before you can take Weapon Focus: Kama.

Another reason not to go kama!

Why the devil would you kama with no monk?

But you can still go sickle, though.

Anyway, as Vaul said, going 12/4/4 would be better, but it's shitty as hell to level. I'd personally struggle with that hell of an XP penalty, but entirely your choice in the end. Take Spellcraft.

TormakSaber wrote:

Why the devil would you kama with no monk?

The Raven's Beak.

My bad, I meant sickle. The 5 druid is for flavour. Wildshape is rather spectacular, although you'd only have 1/day (5 hours). With sneak you don't need to go shortsword, kukri etc., and can safely go for flavour without having people shouting at you for not choosing one of the most efficient weapons in the game. Admittedly the build was made quickly and I agree that four druid levels pre-epic would help the saves up a notch.

There is a neat sickle with level drain in the game which would be awesome to wield two of.

You'd be like this fella. Shaundakul, but with a small weapon.

Nah, there isn't a duration on the shapes.

There's a Blind onHit sickle too.

1 hour/druid level. Would be lovely with unlimited duration, but that would never fly.

A shame the sickle only has one form of appearance.

Sickle is also a small weapon, so you can dual wield it without any problems.

only problem is that MOST sneak weapons are either daggers/Kukris/Short swords ...

Sidetracks!
Think of an assassin. Add

Oh, and Ulir, concerning your statistics, I'd totally take WIS 14 for the sake of getting an item with Bonus Spell Slot: 4 on it. Self-sufficient Camo and Mass Camo for 50 minutes a day, yes please. Sure you could use items, but that's just blah.

because of the whole druids can't use metal thing I tend to most always end up with either dual weild sickles or one and a shield.

I was going to say sneaking with bludgeoning weapons may be interesting, maces, light hammers.

I have a question about monkey grip but i'll save it for some time in the future when the idea I have in mind makes a bit more sense.

Glyph wrote:

because of the whole druids can't use metal thing I tend to most always end up with either dual weild sickles or one and a shield.

I was going to say sneaking with bludgeoning weapons may be interesting, maces, light hammers.

I have a question about monkey grip but i'll save it for some time in the future when the idea I have in mind makes a bit more sense.

Druids can use metal.

Here's the most frequent Q about monkeygrip i have seen in -This- topic.

The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

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