AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Taking Epic Prowess Topic: Mk. V

Yeah I think SD makes it almost impossible to do from what I saw. Looks like too much of a hassle and it won't work right.

Quote:

The three feats you grab as a melee'er is Imp.Crit, Wep.Focus, Blindfight.
Wep Spec if you're a fighter

seconded thirded in relevance to imp. crit. 10d6 sneaks is 60. times two? is 120. add elemental damage, mass crits. etc. roughly 140+ etc. equals tanks go doown. =D

as for animal empathy, having played a druid my advice is get more. also the hit dice + creature type thing is correct afaik. if the absolute most something has (thinking dragons and bigger) is like 50 hd you'd need 75+. I would max it personally, I would personally walk about with a polar bear as a pet.

question, why would you want to rogue wm? you can do whirlwind sneaks now?? or is nasty on 12+ crit range dual wielder?

small note, weapon finesse is more important than focus unless you start with a ranged weapon that uses dex. ie bows.

ninja'd...the pre-requisites for WM often dodge a build into hell, if your going to SD rogue go SD rogue, not sd rogue wm.

The sneak attack's extra damage isn't multiplied by a crit

edit: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Sneak_attack

quick question on the 23 ranger/5 fighter/2 rogue build... whens a good time to take the first rogue level?

level 21. As early tumbledump as you can.

I'd go 25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue myself, one more feat!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

I'd go 25 Ranger/4 Fighter/1 Rogue myself, one more feat!

EWS = +6
Lev.25 Ranger = +6Dmg vs favoured
= 12 extra damage in total!

And strenght based, yes! Do it also! 14/15 STR modifier + Two weapons!
Then blade thirst so you can spend all of those extra mythal powers on damage stuff.

Then Wtf profit

yup a strength based woodelf is what im toying around with... ill go with the 25/4/1 thanks that means when i can take tumble to 30 do so

Jehran wrote:

Dark Immolation wrote:

Jehran wrote:

What is considered "enough" Animal Empathy, I want to know when to take my Ranger Level (I am not getting discipline on it).

You as a developer should know better than any of us, shouldn't you? :wink:

Animals and Dire animals have DC to empathize of 15 + HD. For beasts and magical beasts the DC is 19 + HD. I know Massive Yeti have a DC somewhere around 38, so you can judge from that, I guess.

Thanks.

The blizzard spectres (if that is their correct name) in the frozen wastes cave have a DC of about 88, if not 90+ last time I tried. Pretty sure it was 88.

Ulir wrote:

The blizzard spectres (if that is their correct name) in the frozen wastes cave have a DC of about 88, if not 90+ last time I tried. Pretty sure it was 88.

I'll just use Dominate Monster on those ones, the AE is going to be mostly for when/if my dominate dies and I want another tank, so at that point most of my spells will probably be expelled and I can replace a couple of gear pieces for AE items and will not necessarily be trying to get the best things. So I think I'll get it either on level 24 or 25 thanks.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

yup a strength based woodelf is what im toying around with... ill go with the 25/4/1 thanks that means when i can take tumble to 30 do so

Make sure you use your ranger Extra feats to grab Epic Wep Focus and Bane of Enemies. Don't grab Epic wep focus on a general feat.

I was wondering how fair I did with the Barbarian/Fighter/WM build. I don't really need dev. crit. since it's been nerfed quite a bit. Besides, I don't like PvP much anyway. I think I got the maximum I want out of it.

Last edited by TheCortroy on Mon, Apr 11 2011, 20:52 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Barbarian 21
Fighter 2
Weapon Master 7

HP:752
Earth Genasi
CN

STR: 16
DEX: 13
CON: 27
INT: 13
WIS: 7
CHA: 6
Concentration: 1

Discipline: 33
Heal: 33
Listen: 17
Parry: 6
Taunt: 29
Intimidate: 32

Feats:
Dodge
Mobility
Pow Attack
Toughness
Imp Crit: Heavy Flail
Weap Foc: Heavy Flail
Expertise
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Epic: Dam Red 3
Epic: Dam Red 6
Epic: Toughness 1
Epic: Gr Con 1
Weap Choice: Heavyflail
Epic feat: Terrifying Rage
_____________

Con based Barb/Fight/WM, works fairly well, averages around 45 AB, crap for AC as can be expected, but he's supertank.

Taken from my WM: Derk.

// EDIT; Misread Rolto's post, I thought he/she was asking for a build. Apologies. But, compare it if you want.

Naivatkal wrote:

TeroSNS wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Any other suggestions on the rogue build I posted?

I always tend to think that it is pretty useless to go with improved critical feat with a rogue, your damage is mostly from sneak attack, and with low str it is pretty useless.

Would you have a suggestion on a different feat?

don't ask me, I just play here. circle kick?
It just sounds really wrong with rogue and impr. crit. I usually bother with it only insane critters or such.

so what's the deal with GS nowdays? It adds spell failure, haste and some other stuff?

Sweetdreamz wrote:

...

I appreciate the reply. Looks pretty good. Maybe you could try altering the build I posted to reduce the amount of fighter levels?

At level 24 or so - I know you have to choose either Barbarian or WM to 'dump' intimidate to get the 'Terrifying Rage' feat. Feats are a bit iffy. Since I'm using a Dire Mace - more feats will be needed. Not sure if I can reduce the amount of Fighter levels to satisfy the requirements to use the Dire Mace.

And perhaps add a subrace of human, not a Outsider/Genasi. I don't want to RP a human that isn't Genasi, to have that subrace.

If I were you, the only clear thing I'd suggest with your current build is to drop Armor Skin and replace it with something else. Your AC is already crap since you're using a duel weapon, may as well add more firepower or something.

But, with those specific requirements you posted, I'd say that's about right. (What you already have.)

Sweetdreamz wrote:

If I were you, the only clear thing I'd suggest with your current build is to drop Armor Skin and replace it with something else. Your AC is already crap since you're using a duel weapon, may as well add more firepower or something.

But, with those specific requirements you posted, I'd say that's about right. (What you already have.)

Not sure how much AC it'll really end up with. I don't have a good module to test Amian type gear. I just focuse on the build. See how feats fit - not actually what I end up with, gear-wise.

Maybe with the +12 to Dex and +12 to Str on items will help a great deal. Not sure if I want to drop Armor Skin and with what would I swap it with to get more firepower? I don't want Str to end in an odd number, so 'Greater Strength' is out. Any(one) suggestions?

Edit: Most feats are out of this builds reach; like Thundering Rage, Overwhelming Critical, Devistating Critical, Improved Whirlwind..

Epic Prowess adds +1 to Attacks. Would that be worth taking?

In my opinion, if you dual-wield and have poor AC, you may as well have none at all and rely on a mage for Improved Inviz, Stoneskin, ect. Makes more room for gearslots. High CON and Fort Saves will be good, and maybe some regeneration for good measure.

I have always wanted to make a character based around regeneration. +20 Regen or something could be interesting with tons of CON, or tons of AC.

Murex wrote:

In my opinion, if you dual-wield and have poor AC, you may as well have none at all and rely on a mage for Improved Inviz, Stoneskin, ect. Makes more room for gearslots. High CON and Fort Saves will be good, and maybe some regeneration for good measure.

Sweetdreamz wrote:

Murex wrote:

In my opinion, if you dual-wield and have poor AC, you may as well have none at all and rely on a mage for Improved Inviz, Stoneskin, ect. Makes more room for gearslots. High CON and Fort Saves will be good, and maybe some regeneration for good measure.

Yeah I pretty much figured. It kind of has it's potential but the dual-wielding thing really comes at a very heavy price. I know characters should have their weakness' but being a complete push-over is another, especially if you have to rely on a mage. In hindsight, I figure I should try something else.

Thanks for the feedback.

Naivatkal wrote:

Yeah I think SD makes it almost impossible to do from what I saw. Looks like too much of a hassle and it won't work right.

Quite simple to do actually. It's feat-tight as hell, but I managed all the essentials for sneakers.

17 rogue/7 WM/6 SD is what I went. She's pretty nasty overall. Epic dodge makes the build more than viable on the rare occasion you run across a dedicated spotter or buys you enough time to take out those pesky pseudodragons everyone and the their mother seems to have.

I will say two things, though. 1.) Bit of a pain to level until you get a decent way into your epic levels. 2.) You're really gonna need to kit it out right.

ainjyll wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

Yeah I think SD makes it almost impossible to do from what I saw. Looks like too much of a hassle and it won't work right.

Quite simple to do actually. It's feat-tight as hell, but I managed all the essentials for sneakers.

17 rogue/7 WM/6 SD is what I went. She's pretty nasty overall. Epic dodge makes the build more than viable on the rare occasion you run across a dedicated spotter or buys you enough time to take out those pesky pseudodragons everyone and the their mother seems to have.

I will say two things, though. 1.) Bit of a pain to level until you get a decent way into your epic levels. 2.) You're really gonna need to kit it out right.

Yeah, I made something like that once except it was Fighter 13/WM 7/SD 10. That was just cause it was a possible rebuild option for Tyrus, but it was not gonna work right lol He's got SD 10 so I had to keep it in a rebuild

Anyways, yeah I know it's doable I just meant the feat part is triiicky lol

Last edited by oshizo2 on Tue, Apr 12 2011, 20:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Alright build guru's I'm making a svirfneblin assassin. Here's what I have. Give me a critique please.
Str: 10
Dext: 20 (30)
con: 6
Wis: 10
cha: 8
int : 16
1 monk, dodge
2 monk,
3 ranger, ambidexterity, favored enemy lizard, weapon finess
4 monk
5 assassin
6 monk, weapon focus kama
7 monk
8 monk, kd, ikd.
9 assy mobility
10 assy
11 assy
12 assy spring attack
13 monk
14 assy
15 assy improved critical
16 monk
17 assy
18 assy blind fight
19 monk
20 assy
21 assy great dext1
22 assy
23 assy
24 assy great dexterity 2, great dexterity 3
25 assy
26 assy
27 assy
28 assy self concealment, ESF hide

Let me know what you think. it's going to be a trapper corner sneak.

8

Glyph wrote:

seconded thirded in relevance to imp. crit. 10d6 sneaks is 60. times two? is 120. add elemental damage, mass crits. etc. roughly 140+ etc. equals tanks go doown. =D

I wish people wouldn't use the maxima of dice rolls for working out damage.

10d6 can be 60, but that means all ten dice rolling six, which happens once every 6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6 strikes, also known as 60,466,176, so on six attacks per round (one per second) from dualwielding, and with 31,536,000 seconds in a year you can expect that to roll up around about once every two years of continuous combat.

If you take the average roll of a d6, which is 3.5, you get a far more sensible expectation of DPS.

Uberuce wrote:

Glyph wrote:

seconded thirded in relevance to imp. crit. 10d6 sneaks is 60. times two? is 120. add elemental damage, mass crits. etc. roughly 140+ etc. equals tanks go doown. =D

I wish people wouldn't use the maxima of dice rolls for working out damage.

10d6 can be 60, but that means all ten dice rolling six, which happens once every 6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6x6 strikes, also known as 60,466,176, so on six attacks per round (one per second) from dualwielding, and with 31,536,000 seconds in a year you can expect that to roll up around about once every two years of continuous combat.

If you take the average roll of a d6, which is 3.5, you get a far more sensible expectation of DPS.

1d6

Average is 3, minimum 1, maximum 6.

3+1+6/3 = 3.3333333333333333333333333

Average is 3.5. You're not calculating right. It's 6 + 1 / 2.

Uberuce wrote:

Glyph wrote:

seconded thirded in relevance to imp. crit. 10d6 sneaks is 60. times two? is 120. add elemental damage, mass crits. etc. roughly 140+ etc. equals tanks go doown. =D

I wish people wouldn't use the maxima of dice rolls for working out damage.

I wish people, after all these years nwn has been around, would already know that sneak attack doesn't multiply on crits.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Average is 3.5. You're not calculating right. It's (6 + 1) / 2.

fixed that too

/rant removed, remind me not to bother here.

well no responses yet on the earlier post. I was thinking i could drop ESF hide and go for self concealment 2 at 28... maybe a good idea? i don't know.

oshizo2 wrote:

well no responses yet on the earlier post. I was thinking i could drop ESF hide and go for self concealment 2 at 28... maybe a good idea? i don't know.

what you should do, is drop spring attack, you will have enough tumble to always ignore attacks of opportunity.
maybe even mobility too, but it also helps other sources of AoO that tumble can't prevent: drinking potions, casting spells...
removing these two feats you could go for two weapon feats, instead.

well i suppose i could drop spring attack and take lightning reflexes or improved initiative. i could drop both and get two of the bow feats ic short bow and weapon focus short bow... hrmm... disarm and improved disarm would be nice but since i'm not unarmed it's like the unwritten taboo is it not? of course i can always go barehanded if i want to use the feat. hrmm again.

oshizo2 wrote:

well i suppose i could drop spring attack and take lightning reflexes or improved initiative. i could drop both and get two of the bow feats ic short bow and weapon focus short bow... hrmm... disarm and improved disarm would be nice but since i'm not unarmed it's like the unwritten taboo is it not? of course i can always go barehanded if i want to use the feat. hrmm again.

the best use of disarm I think is with large weapons (two handeds), which get nice bonuses. Though disarm is a bit unfamiliar to me.

How many druid levels are needed for 1k faces? The info has not been included in the classes section. Might need to put that back in, otherwise people would think 1 level of druid or shifter would be adequate.

according to a thread I found in search, and the players handbook now I think about it, level 13. that said its like shadowjump and other abilities, not one you just find yup.

ed: spring attack means if your running about you can't roll 1's, may want to think about it first before swaping it.

Glyph wrote:

according to a thread I found in search, and the players handbook now I think about it, level 13. that said its like shadowjump and other abilities, not one you just find yup.

13 levels in shifter or Druid or shifter/Druid combined (Example; 5Druid levels and 8 Shifter levels)

thank you i'll keep it the same then. what about dropping ESF hide for self concealment 2. is it worth it?

oshizo2 wrote:

thank you i'll keep it the same then. what about dropping ESF hide for self concealment 2. is it worth it?

Why is it a svirf?

Also - Click me for Assassin Info and Abilities specific to Amia
As you can see here, You don't need Self-concealment. Assassins get access to the spell Imp.Invis that lasts turns/assassin levels.

Glyph wrote:

ed: spring attack means if your running about you can't roll 1's, may want to think about it first before swaping it.

ignore this, he doesn't seem to remember that it is a skill check, thus 1 rolled isn't a fail. swap that stupid feat away.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Glyph wrote:

according to a thread I found in search, and the players handbook now I think about it, level 13. that said its like shadowjump and other abilities, not one you just find yup.

13 levels in shifter or Druid or shifter/Druid combined (Example; 5Druid levels and 8 Shifter levels)

No. Incorrect.

13 druid levels OR 7 shifter levels. Again, Svensk, if you're going to try to play mini DM, be correct at least.

my point was less AoO's means less time dead. there are such things as ability drains you know. but i'm sure you will now spend five minutes doing the math to prove why that idea sucks too? -_- bye.

Glyph wrote:

my point was less AoO's means less time dead. there are such things as ability drains you know. but i'm sure you will now spend five minutes doing the math to prove why that idea sucks too? -_- bye.

ummm...wha? spring attack is only useful if you cannot put enough skill points onto tumble, which makes the whole feat useless with at least 9 ranks(in his build case).

Knock it off, Glyph. Your advice was wrong, there's no point in being snarky about it.

well i rarely see svirfs, and when i do they either super scary or billy bad ass (ikr). well seems to me that their are other jobs creatures with supposed natural intelligence could do. so wanted to explore a sneaky aspect of how (the smart guys) would be a killer.

thank you for the tip about spring attack, i wonder what singular feat i could pick up in it's place or should i drop mobility as well and pick up bow feats or something else instead.. toughness maybe or stealthy? i'll marinate on it.

oshizo2 wrote:

well i rarely see svirfs, and when i do they either super scary or billy bad ass (ikr). well seems to me that their are other jobs creatures with supposed natural intelligence could do. so wanted to explore a sneaky aspect of how (the smart guys) would be a killer.

thank you for the tip about spring attack, i wonder what singular feat i could pick up in it's place or should i drop mobility as well and pick up bow feats or something else instead.. toughness maybe or stealthy? i'll marinate on it.

I hate when I get in these kind of positions too. It all suddenly depends on if you want to be stealthy or more hearty.

Drop mobility, if you're going for Tumble. I think 15 ranks is the same as Spring Attack and if you automatically dodge most /if not/ all, then Mobility is useless. Dodge is handy though, depending on how much feats you can use.

Self Concealment requires dexterity 30+, hide 30, tumble 30, improved evasion. I don't think you'll be able to get it.

TormakSaber wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Glyph wrote:

according to a thread I found in search, and the players handbook now I think about it, level 13. that said its like shadowjump and other abilities, not one you just find yup.

13 levels in shifter or Druid or shifter/Druid combined (Example; 5Druid levels and 8 Shifter levels)

No. Incorrect.

13 druid levels OR 7 shifter levels. Again, Svensk, if you're going to try to play mini DM, be correct at least.

And how do you get 7 shifter levels WITHOUT 5 druid levels? ><

Irrelevant: Your comment was wrong and was thus corrected.

thank you rolto. now i know what to do with dropping mobility i can take toughness and stealthy just because i have so few hp's and no epic dodge.

oshizo2 wrote:

thank you rolto. now i know what to do with dropping mobility i can take toughness and stealthy just because i have so few hp's and no epic dodge.

Epic dodge would be nice to have, but as long as you retain your dex bonus then you'll probably be alright.

In terms of AoO, I wonder, does Blindfight als become useless when you have enough Tumble ranks/Spring Attack feat and/or Uncanny Dodge?

Uncanny Dodge says; The character retains his dexterity bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

I would say yes, in the case of Uncanny Dodge, but what about the others?

Very_Svensk wrote:

And how do you get 7 shifter levels WITHOUT 5 druid levels? ><

except with 7 shifter levels and 5 druid you are level 12, not 13! *failstamps*

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