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Dark Immolation
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 Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:30 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Any thoughts on the system I suggested? I swear this is like the 3rd time I've suggested it, but no comments on it one way or the other.
I think we're all in agreement that PC's don't need the ability to permakill another PC, so let's stop beating that horse.
What about temporarily being able to keep a PC from respawning, in the way I detailed a few posts ago, restrictions and all.
_________________  You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
Last edited by Dark Immolation on Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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A lot of to do for basically no gain, imo.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Anything that doesn't give PCs the ability to kill eachother is not going too far. That horse is alive and kicking and will make its breakthrough eventually. I would like to see some system that puts non-raised PvP kills on a cooldown period, though. I don't know about no raises, but no respawns at least. And corpses should be able to be moved, but then you'd have to script a new system. I do like it, but because it falls woefully short of any signifigant change it seems like energy better spent on devicing more radical means.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:46 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Well the problem as I understood it is that "Meh, I'm mad, I just killed this guy and he respawned 2 min later and is challenging me again." Now while most people have the common courtesy to go off and lick their wounds, or at least not show up in the other person's face for a while, this would remedy it.
It allows for deaths to be more "meaningful" in the sense it makes you not want to fall to your enemy even more, at least on an OoC level. Perhaps a needed OoC motivator for IC actions. You may take your showdown against you rival more seriously, knowing that it's very likely that he'll "significant death" you if he beats you. And while you still get your character back, it will be maybe an hour or so(provided they stay on).
Death is temporary in most cases on Amia. That's a pill(or depository, if you prefer) that we just have to swallow. But we can get a real handle on the options we offer our players by modifying how temporary it is.
With the restrictions I stated, I don't think that it is adding much more power to the hands of the player. Yes, I said it. But why? Because it is little different than if you kill someone in PvP and then RP over their corpse for a while. Unless you're an absolute asshole, if your opponent is still RPing with, on, or around your body after you've been defeated, you don't respawn. This is just doing the same, without having to stay over the body(to make sure they don't respawn), but you do have to stay on the server.
The reason I believe this needs to be an "option" is because it just gets in the way in terms of other things. PvM, it just holds your party back. And while yes, the extreme of that situation is "Oh drat, Jeb died again. *Sigh* Let's wait an IC hour and get back on the move.", the other extreme is that "Crap. 2 party members rolled a 1 on the first spawn. Guess we'll be back in an hour, guys." My system is for exactly the examples I've cited for it. PvP. That's where people who claim to want more "meaning" for death really want it.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well yes, I think it's nice to be able to put a player out of comission for a while. We once talked about a system with "lives" that replenish gradually, so that dying several times over a short period would send you away for a longer while. But I guess that's more complicated than necessary. Simply giving the option of special PvP causing a 12-hour cooldown or something would be great. This could always be overruled by a DM and griefers would be logged and punished, of course.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 19:59 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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Exactly. The "lives" methods only makes death more meaningful when you have less of them. "Hmmm, I haven't logged in in a while.... Oh snap, 5 lives? Well, guess who's picking multiple fights with his rival faction today?".
If it's selectable at a moment(though severe limitations how many times and when), you make sure, or better, your character makes sure he has his shit together before he runs off and gets in PvP.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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Dwagin
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 21:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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This topic makes my brain hurt. Regardless of the systems put in place.. some people will -always- do the bare minimum. There are those who have it well in hand already, in my opinion. Note I said my opinion. Because 'quality' of RP is very subjective to opinion, and perception.
I'm about as tired of seeing 'It'll be good for RP' thrown around the forums as I am hearing 'Its to protect the children!' from politicians trying to be thought police. What quantitative, actual, gains would such changes bring? Even if they're hypothetical, I would like to be shown where the logic goes for you proponents. What you feel would be better, give me examples, like you're trying to sell me the idea.
Here's my take so you see where I am coming from: lets consider how 'fun' it is to stare at a death screen, for the people involved; it is not fun at all. Consider when someone is dead... No interrogation. No extortion. No bribery, No duress, Nothing. Dead. Just like the chances for creativity and RP that comes from it. Like it was said earlier, until everyone starts showing Death the proper respect it deserves by staying the blade/spell/claw, all the administering and systems in the world won't make it better. The change has got to be in your heads, I don't think a system can or will do that.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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Vaul Tarrith
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 21:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Location: 9th Circle of Hell...with the steaks and Rum
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** rousing golf clap for Dwagin **
Well said. I concur.
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Selmak
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Posted: Thu, Feb 17 2011, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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The only way I can see it working is if your character becomes free to receive the same treatment, if they die in the attempt or during the time following a successful kill, without other players needing to use up their allotment. When your character commits murder, someone gets to kill them and bring in the decapitated head for the bounty. It's only fair. But this would mean you'd need to set it before or during, after would be too late. In any event, it's still not a great idea to just let anyone go around killing people and making it impossible for them to respawn for a long time. You can come to an agreement with the other player(s) without needing a mechanical means to enforce it.
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P Three
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 1:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Herra Tutteri wrote: Tits. Huge tits. Rubber tits. Titty tits. Enough? You fucker. I was drinking. _________________ Bobo_Underhill wrote: Ley lines, y'all. Just let me go wrangle up my cowboy boots and lasso us up some magic.
Yee-haw! Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of EilistraeeDanika Nefzen: Druid of the EarthmotherDelia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm
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eternal789
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 17:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
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Quote: Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
Material Component: Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp.
How about that? Makes death something to avoid, while not being game-ruining. Nothing wrong with sticking with how the spell is supposed to work, eh?
_________________
Tyro Imyn
Krick Kallyan
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hendrack
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 17:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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Delevel causes bugs with a couple classes, otherwise I'd not be opposed to the general idea.
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 17:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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every time to use raisedead to pop someone back up after some noob thought you standing on the road in thier way was a good reason to kill you, and you use lose a level....bad idea.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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hendrack
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 17:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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 People have to let go of the silly abuse argument now after years and use that above.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 20:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Abuse is still a legit argumnet because although yes, you can screenshot it and report it, it's still causing the problem for you and forcing us to use unnecessary overhead to fix and treat every time it does happen. Rather not add the abusable thing to begin with.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 20:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Well, that's an ideological decision you make. Whether to keep running a server for children and designing accordingly, or starting to demand and expect maturity from the players. In general, people are eager to meet expectations. This is why servers with lower expectations have a lower level of maturity. Once you start having faith in people (and using the stick to show them the expectations aren't just empty rhetoric), you're going to see change.
There's a balance to be found, of course, and not just any blatantly abusable system is necessary a good one. Nevertheless, if it can be countered it shouldn't be too great of a concern. You can't do anything if you speculate and steer clear of every potentially abusable solution. Way more severe systems work on other servers and people don't whine over there. What makes you think Amians can't be just as mature and responsible? Every server has its own problems and needs its own solutions, but I don't see why our players wouldn't have the same potential for maturity as anyone else.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 20:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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hendrack wrote: People have to let go of the silly abuse argument now after years and use that above. yeah what if its people who are just looking for a fight, people summon undead and walk around amia forest and other areas where they know they will get into a fight, they would be following the rules and then people would still lose 1 level each time they get raised dead. the over all fact if everyone was to report every rule they thought someone broke, DMs would never have time to run events, we have lost about 5DMs over the last 5 months and noone to replace them. throw on rebuilds and who knows what else they have to do, now think how much OOC fighting DMs would have to deal with everytime someone gets killed in PVP and would take a massive hit, be in loss of one level or what ever. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Dwagin
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 20:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Location: The Land of Nod
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Amia hasn't required submission for PCs of the 'normal' types.
Amia hasn't had a lot of RP heavy controls in place. (Domain restrictions. Severely punishing death system. Then the other 'realism' Food, Water, Rest, and such 'nags'.)
Alot of freedom for the individual player, with there being positive reinforcement for doing what is viewed as a good thing by dreamcoins, or special requests being granted.
I dislike generalizations and nebulous things. 'A lot of servers do this'. Amia isn't a lot of servers. It has a popularity for a reason. Straying away from what works into territory as everyone else? She's gotten some real good changes to her, and weathered a good amount of change over the past year or so. But I don't think some of you are able to realize how un-fun some of this stuff is. And how destructive it could be to player fun and supporting -long term meaningful characters-.
I don't see this so much as a maturity thing, and I think that the running a server for children comment was a poorly chosen slight to anyone who has put effort in the server, Iron.
_________________
Dwagin [Duh-wa-GIN] N. - 1a. Small and cute thingum, particularly fond of four legged scaled creatures of the metalic and chromatic varieties.
-Extraordinarily ordinary in the mostest of ways.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 21:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Dwagin wrote: Amia hasn't required submission for PCs of the 'normal' types.
Amia hasn't had a lot of RP heavy controls in place. (Domain restrictions. Severely punishing death system. Then the other 'realism' Food, Water, Rest, and such 'nags'.)
Alot of freedom for the individual player, with there being positive reinforcement for doing what is viewed as a good thing by dreamcoins, or special requests being granted.
I dislike generalizations and nebulous things. 'A lot of servers do this'. Amia isn't a lot of servers. It has a popularity for a reason. Straying away from what works into territory as everyone else? She's gotten some real good changes to her, and weathered a good amount of change over the past year or so. But I don't think some of you are able to realize how un-fun some of this stuff is. And how destructive it could be to player fun and supporting -long term meaningful characters-.
I don't see this so much as a maturity thing, and I think that the running a server for children comment was a poorly chosen slight to anyone who has put effort in the server, Iron. Your post is off the mark. You're talking on some general level that doesn't seem related to the simple, specific case above: whether the small possible for abuse is determinal to the idea. Tormak seems to think that any possibility for abuse is reason to avoid the hassle altogether. That is what running a server for children means: expecting the worst of the players and treating them as if they couldn't be just as responsible and mature as anyone else. I went to great lengths to ensure that nobody makes the crude misinterpretation of my point being "other servers do this and so should we" but apparently it wasn't clear enough. As I already said, other servers don't have the problems that people speculate Amia will have if anything changes. This is simple empirical evidence where X happened but Y did not, contrary to the speculative armchair developement practiced here. So my question was, why would Amians be more immature than others? I'm not the one saying they are, you (people who fear abuse) are. Empirical evidence simply doesn't support this guess, and moreover, it's ideologically dubious to profess to have Amia's best interests at heart yet have so little faith in the server and its playerbase. If somebody who's put effort in the server sees is as a slight, it's their reading comprehension that needs to improve. I understand exactly what it would mean for "long term meaningful characters." That's the whole point: I don't want to see the same PCs hang around Cordor year after year in their umpteenth incarnation/rebuild because players have grown too close to them to let go. I want characters to be shorter-lived on average, I want the server culture to change from SecondLife and an artificial illusion of social control to one where story and adventure takes priority. Ultimately, a PC's story isn't meaningful until it's come to an end. Meaning is given in retrospect. That's right: Iron wants your 5-year-old PC dead and gone. Not everybody wants this, I fully understand this. But people have conflicting interests and we're all out to advocate our own. That's why I'm getting a little tired of the guilt-tripping tolerance rhetoric aimed my way. The only difference between me and the majority is that my preference isn't the status quo and therefore I need to work harder and be more honest to legitimize it. You're just as much of a biased and discriminating thought police as I am, you just have the established rhetoric of convention and public consensus on your side so that it isn't as blatantly obvious. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Estara
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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IronAngel wrote: Tormak seems to think that any possibility for abuse is reason to avoid the hassle altogether. That is what running a server for children means: expecting the worst of the players and treating them as if they couldn't be just as responsible and mature as anyone else. I went to great lengths to ensure that nobody makes the crude misinterpretation of my point being "other servers do this and so should we" but apparently it wasn't clear enough. As I already said, other servers don't have the problems that people speculate Amia will have if anything changes. This is simple empirical evidence where X happened but Y did not, contrary to the speculative armchair developement practiced here. So my question was, why would Amians be more immature than others? I'm not the one saying they are, you (people who fear abuse) are. Empirical evidence simply doesn't support this guess, and moreover, it's ideologically dubious to profess to have Amia's best interests at heart yet have so little faith in the server and its playerbase. Sometimes I like to see Amia like a high school or a college/uni. There's good kids and there's bad kids. The bad kids do annoying things that are pointless, get them nowhere, and just cause trouble for all the teachers and administrators and all sorts of stuff and then mean rules get set up. The good kids get frustrated by the rules that were created for the bad kids and say, "We didn't and won't do this!" But they forget-- the bad kids still exist. Yes, those in charge (the DMs) job is to create fun for us all and they agree to it without pay (unlike those in schools). By agreeing to do this, they should (and I imagine do) want to agree that we are all amiable, responsible people. But they're realistic. We're not. The bad kids do exist here on Amia too. They see this, they know this and they prepare for it. They realize that if they didn't prepare for it, they would have less time to create fun and would have to spend more time being administrators. If they say that there's good standing for rules like that to be in place that they can't tell us about, then I think we are ideologically dubious by insinuating they're lying/stupid/incapable of making logical decisions based off of past factors. They're our DMs. It's not like this is a monarchy. There's a whole team of them up there. If they're conspiring to ruin our game lives, that'd be pretty sad. On a last tangent, Dwagin's point does stand that while this may have worked for other servers, Amia is NOT other servers. So that empirical evidence of other places doesn't really stand for me. You can't go through person by person in all these servers and compare them and somehow agree that their playerbase or our playerbase are the same maturity, same age level, same set-up, etc. IronAngel wrote: I understand exactly what it would mean for "long term meaningful characters." That's the whole point: I don't want to see the same PCs hang around Cordor year after year in their umpteenth incarnation/rebuild because players have grown too close to them to let go. I want characters to be shorter-lived on average, I want the server culture to change from SecondLife and an artificial illusion of social control to one where story and adventure takes priority. Ultimately, a PC's story isn't meaningful until it's come to an end. Meaning is given in retrospect. That's right: Iron wants your 5-year-old PC dead and gone. Not everybody wants this, I fully understand this. But people have conflicting interests and we're all out to advocate our own. I still don't comprehend how others doing what you don't want them to do ruins your choice to not do what you don't want to do.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Ha. Jabbing anyones idea's and calling them childish or "wrong" because they don't mesh with your idea's is just so calling the kettle black. I think while you may all be presenting large posts at the moment, most of its full of filler. Doesn't change you from all sounding as childish as each other. Big posts that basically say nothing don't make you smart, just make me read a shit load and more likely to ignore half of what you've written.
Tell you what grinds my gears. People who want a dramatic change from the things people originally came to Amia for, just because they can't be fucked going to another server that actually caters for the experience they want. Seriously, it's really annoying. Arelith and POTM cater for heavy immersion and slow leveling way better then Amia ever could. There is still plenty of PvP servers, and if your looking for adult crap, there's a score of social servers for that, or heck, msn. Feel like being elitest, ALTA (Or whatever those 6 servers full of faerunian crap only avaliable to members of the group, are).
Lot's of alternatives. No need for you to go on personal mission to "CHANGE AMIA FOR THE BETTER!".
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Estara wrote: But they're realistic. We're not. The bad kids do exist here on Amia too. They see this, they know this and they prepare for it. They realize that if they didn't prepare for it, they would have less time to create fun and would have to spend more time being administrators.
If they say that there's good standing for rules like that to be in place that they can't tell us about, then I think we are ideologically dubious by insinuating they're lying/stupid/incapable of making logical decisions based off of past factors. They're our DMs. It's not like this is a monarchy. There's a whole team of them up there. If they're conspiring to ruin our game lives, that'd be pretty sad.
On a last tangent, Dwagin's point does stand that while this may have worked for other servers, Amia is NOT other servers. So that empirical evidence of other places doesn't really stand for me. You can't go through person by person in all these servers and compare them and somehow agree that their playerbase or our playerbase are the same maturity, same age level, same set-up, etc. You too are taking this to a more general and vague level than what I'm talking about. I've been a DM too, and I can tell you there's no "secret knowledge" they're party to that would solve this thing one way or another. The same disagreements have always existed and they're between tastes, personality dispositions and ideologies, not "good information" and "lacking information". I'm not talking about some conspiracy or general inability of DMs to know what they're doing. I'm commenting on a single post made by a single DM I know from experience is naturally inclined to treat player responsibility and initiative with unwarranted cynicism, and calling him out for it. No reason to read any more into it. As for the second point: no two playerbases are identical, that much is true. I'm not making any strong conclusions from the evidence, because I acknowledge this. But it's the only evidence we have, so it seems pretty radical to state the exact opposite based on no evidence at all. Of the two very uncertain options, the fearful and skeptical one is both less supported by evidence and pretty insulting to the playerbase of Amia. It's not certain that Amians are as mature as other NWN players, but working off the assumption that they certainly aren't is a slap in our face. About the last point: it's not about what I want to do and what you want to do. It's what I want Amia to be and what you want Amia to be. That's a prime example of the kind of rhetoric of tolerance the established order can use to justify itself, but in fact the system doesn't tolerate any other systems, only individual deviants who flail around aimlessly. Two systems, two server cultures, two visions can't ultimately coexist. Amia is not a tolerant, value-free zone where every view is embraced and supported. Amia has made a positive choice for one way over another, and the other way has no realistic possibility of coexisting with the official stance. You can't pretend your way is a free way of live and let live, because it's just as inescapeable and total as some other way. What's the best way, that remains an open question. But when you say "you do your thing and let me do mine" you're not expressing the equality of all ways but actually your dedication to the way of "live and let live (no matter the cost)." Selvec, who am I calling childish? I don't get it. My posts are long because I make complete arguments and don't leave things open. If you read my posts, you wouldn't have to make misdirected comments like that. You are free to point out the "filler" or nonsense in my posts any time you want. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:54 PM, edited 3 times in total.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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The only way anything will change will be if Disco alters something and hands down the "Addendum to the Word of the Chicken" to his prophets, the DMs, or if the player base as a whole chooses to treat death differently. Otherwise it is all just posturing and bickering that accomplishes nothing.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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DustSpray101 wrote: The only way anything will change will be if Disco alters something and hands down the "Addendum to the Word of the Chicken" to his prophets, the DMs, or if the player base as a whole chooses to treat death differently. Otherwise it is all just posturing and bickering that accomplishes nothing. And how are we ever going to get there without the posturing and bickering? Do people change their minds magically, out of the blue? Are subtle, conservative changes implemented on their own, without anyone brain-storming and fine-tuning them? Is the Improving Amia forum here and all education and media in the real world just for looks? _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Lead the way with what you believe to be good RP. You want change? Make it happen with you and move from there. Nothing is won in fights over the Internet. Ideas that deal with in game actions are often sparked from players mimicking other players because they like a particular term or concept.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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That's a sad outlook on life, IMO, but each to their own. I think the very core of what it means to be human is practiced in these kind of situations. I do agree that examples in game are good and effective, though. But I'm not pushing for just a change in player practice, but a change in game mechanics. I want to fear for my life, I want the inevitable mechanics to pump that adrenaline into my veins. Some changes can be achieved in game, others out of it.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 22:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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IronAngel wrote: That's a sad outlook on life, IMO, but each to their own. I think the very core of what it means to be human is practiced in these kind of situations. Nothing to do with life in general outside of character life. Unless you are wishing to debate that imaginary friends have rights too, please keep in mind that we are talking about a game. IRL, death=huge deal. IG? Not so much when there is a reset coming up, scrolls, or a buddy cleric near at hand. The difference should be clear by this point. Edit: I may have misunderstood what you were saying. More was added to the post as I was writing a reply. Edit 2: iPhone related spelling issues needed fixing.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
Last edited by DustSpray101 on Fri, Feb 18 2011, 23:38 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Feb 18 2011, 23:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Sorry, I have a bad habit of wanting to clarify and correct stuff after posting! You really should wait half an hour after writing to submit your post so to review it properly, but I'm not patient enough.
I think the notion that nothing is won in rational discourse ("internet fights") is a sad one, because communication is the very definition of humanity. I'm not talking about an idealized Socratic dialogue of rational finesse and deductive logic, but the real situation of interaction with all its dirty power play, status leverage, emotional rhetoric, moralizing, sophisms that nonetheless make up an event of rational interaction between people where ideas and norms are shared, exchanged or dismissed. If that's not the most fascinating and meaningful thing on this little rock, I don't know what is.
We're so far off topic that I guess I should drop this now. I do think we need both permadeath and a more interesting death system (I'm not in favor of level drops or anything like that even if it was unabusable, though - fun first and foremost!) but the latter is something for another topic and tangible suggestions. Dark Immolation had a good rough idea, so far.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 1:11 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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IronAngel wrote: Estara wrote: But they're realistic. We're not. The bad kids do exist here on Amia too. They see this, they know this and they prepare for it. They realize that if they didn't prepare for it, they would have less time to create fun and would have to spend more time being administrators.
If they say that there's good standing for rules like that to be in place that they can't tell us about, then I think we are ideologically dubious by insinuating they're lying/stupid/incapable of making logical decisions based off of past factors. They're our DMs. It's not like this is a monarchy. There's a whole team of them up there. If they're conspiring to ruin our game lives, that'd be pretty sad.
On a last tangent, Dwagin's point does stand that while this may have worked for other servers, Amia is NOT other servers. So that empirical evidence of other places doesn't really stand for me. You can't go through person by person in all these servers and compare them and somehow agree that their playerbase or our playerbase are the same maturity, same age level, same set-up, etc. You too are taking this to a more general and vague level than what I'm talking about. I've been a DM too, and I can tell you there's no "secret knowledge" they're party to that would solve this thing one way or another. The same disagreements have always existed and they're between tastes, personality dispositions and ideologies, not "good information" and "lacking information". I'm not talking about some conspiracy or general inability of DMs to know what they're doing. I'm commenting on a single post made by a single DM I know from experience is naturally inclined to treat player responsibility and initiative with unwarranted cynicism, and calling him out for it. No reason to read any more into it. As for the second point: no two playerbases are identical, that much is true. I'm not making any strong conclusions from the evidence, because I acknowledge this. But it's the only evidence we have, so it seems pretty radical to state the exact opposite based on no evidence at all. Of the two very uncertain options, the fearful and skeptical one is both less supported by evidence and pretty insulting to the playerbase of Amia. It's not certain that Amians are as mature as other NWN players, but working off the assumption that they certainly aren't is a slap in our face. About the last point: it's not about what I want to do and what you want to do. It's what I want Amia to be and what you want Amia to be. That's a prime example of the kind of rhetoric of tolerance the established order can use to justify itself, but in fact the system doesn't tolerate any other systems, only individual deviants who flail around aimlessly. Two systems, two server cultures, two visions can't ultimately coexist. Amia is not a tolerant, value-free zone where every view is embraced and supported. Amia has made a positive choice for one way over another, and the other way has no realistic possibility of coexisting with the official stance. You can't pretend your way is a free way of live and let live, because it's just as inescapeable and total as some other way. What's the best way, that remains an open question. But when you say "you do your thing and let me do mine" you're not expressing the equality of all ways but actually your dedication to the way of "live and let live (no matter the cost)." Selvec, who am I calling childish? I don't get it. My posts are long because I make complete arguments and don't leave things open. If you read my posts, you wouldn't have to make misdirected comments like that. You are free to point out the "filler" or nonsense in my posts any time you want. Well they aren't really misdirected since it wasn't directed at anyone. Thus the lack of a quote. So thats the first bit you've gotten wrong. Though I like how you assumed it was about you immediatly, very well done. However, I do believe you said that the way Tormak and the others treated the server was childish. A server directed towards children. I take offense with that I suppose, because quite frankely adults can generally be worse then children when it comes to abusive behaviour, since they know how best to go about taking advantage and abusing the system without it being obvious. A good example of childish behaviour on so called "mature" servers that give players more freedom, it's kliqs. Amia's had that problem in the past. It keeps coming up, and it's a constant issue. Soon as players are given more power to do things, more responsability and trust not to abuse things, thats when these Kliqs form and the abuse just gets smarter. But quite frankely, it wasn't just directed at you.
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Estara
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 1:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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IronAngel wrote: You too are taking this to a more general and vague level than what I'm talking about. I've been a DM too, and I can tell you there's no "secret knowledge" they're party to that would solve this thing one way or another. The same disagreements have always existed and they're between tastes, personality dispositions and ideologies, not "good information" and "lacking information". I'm not talking about some conspiracy or general inability of DMs to know what they're doing. I'm commenting on a single post made by a single DM I know from experience is naturally inclined to treat player responsibility and initiative with unwarranted cynicism, and calling him out for it. No reason to read any more into it. Yes, see, but here's the catch: I need to know the vague and general before I move onto the more specific. Now to my point of view (which you are not taking into account)-- it is your word against his about this other stuff. Unless Tormak wants to say that there is no information that we (the players) aren't privy to and that there is no backing to his desire to be withholding this "responsibility" from players...? I doubt it. From what I've seen of his comments, that is what he believes and he believes it because of substantial evidence in his mind. So who is right? I can also choose to believe neither of you, which perhaps I'm doing already. I can have my own opinion based on things that have nothing to do with what either of you said, because as we've both said, I'm not privy to what information there is or isn't DM-wise and I'll base my knowledge off of what information I have-- and that does not make my argument... incomplete. IronAngel wrote: As for the second point: no two playerbases are identical, that much is true. I'm not making any strong conclusions from the evidence, because I acknowledge this. But it's the only evidence we have, so it seems pretty radical to state the exact opposite based on no evidence at all. Of the two very uncertain options, the fearful and skeptical one is both less supported by evidence and pretty insulting to the playerbase of Amia. It's not certain that Amians are as mature as other NWN players, but working off the assumption that they certainly aren't is a slap in our face.
Wrong. You believe it's the only evidence. I could go through NWN and servers and cultures and find servers where perma-death and these ideas DON'T work and that could be just as much evidence as your evidence. I just haven't. Prove to me that places like that don't exist (if you can) and then your evidence is the "only" evidence! IronAngel wrote: About the last point: it's not about what I want to do and what you want to do. It's what I want Amia to be and what you want Amia to be. That's a prime example of the kind of rhetoric of tolerance the established order can use to justify itself, but in fact the system doesn't tolerate any other systems, only individual deviants who flail around aimlessly. Two systems, two server cultures, two visions can't ultimately coexist. Amia is not a tolerant, value-free zone where every view is embraced and supported. Amia has made a positive choice for one way over another, and the other way has no realistic possibility of coexisting with the official stance. You can't pretend your way is a free way of live and let live, because it's just as inescapeable and total as some other way. What's the best way, that remains an open question. But when you say "you do your thing and let me do mine" you're not expressing the equality of all ways but actually your dedication to the way of "live and let live (no matter the cost)." About this I'll only say you're making assumptions and that it's back to previous discussions with us. I don't genuinely dislike some of the ideas, I just don't see them as crucial to an exciting, interesting gaming world as you do.
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Halecta
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Alot of these suggestions have resulted in the death or near death of almost every server that has them. The only exception are those where level 10 is considered "epic"
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 9:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Estara wrote: IronAngel wrote: As for the second point: no two playerbases are identical, that much is true. I'm not making any strong conclusions from the evidence, because I acknowledge this. But it's the only evidence we have, so it seems pretty radical to state the exact opposite based on no evidence at all. Of the two very uncertain options, the fearful and skeptical one is both less supported by evidence and pretty insulting to the playerbase of Amia. It's not certain that Amians are as mature as other NWN players, but working off the assumption that they certainly aren't is a slap in our face.
Wrong. You believe it's the only evidence. I could go through NWN and servers and cultures and find servers where perma-death and these ideas DON'T work and that could be just as much evidence as your evidence. I just haven't. Prove to me that places like that don't exist (if you can) and then your evidence is the "only" evidence! Eheh, that's not really good practice in science or argumentation. It is the only evidence at hand and presented, ergo the only evidence we have. It is logically impossible to show other evidence doesn't exist. It is impossible in general to show something doesn't exist (or that every X that exists is Y), because that would require examining every possible X and the number is actually infinite. You can't say you could find evidence to refute me but you just don't wanna. Well, you can, but that argument is worth nothing. But I already said I'm not basing a whole lot on that good experience with permadeath, so let's not get stuck on it. With or without it, this part is true: It's not certain that Amians are as mature as other NWN players, but working off the assumption that they certainly aren't is a slap in our face. If you refuse to make a reasonable change with little potential for abuse because you fear Amians will abuse it, that shows just how much you respect and trust the playerbase. Estara wrote: IronAngel wrote: About the last point: it's not about what I want to do and what you want to do. It's what I want Amia to be and what you want Amia to be. That's a prime example of the kind of rhetoric of tolerance the established order can use to justify itself, but in fact the system doesn't tolerate any other systems, only individual deviants who flail around aimlessly. Two systems, two server cultures, two visions can't ultimately coexist. Amia is not a tolerant, value-free zone where every view is embraced and supported. Amia has made a positive choice for one way over another, and the other way has no realistic possibility of coexisting with the official stance. You can't pretend your way is a free way of live and let live, because it's just as inescapeable and total as some other way. What's the best way, that remains an open question. But when you say "you do your thing and let me do mine" you're not expressing the equality of all ways but actually your dedication to the way of "live and let live (no matter the cost)." About this I'll only say you're making assumptions and that it's back to previous discussions with us. I don't genuinely dislike some of the ideas, I just don't see them as crucial to an exciting, interesting gaming world as you do. You still don't get what I'm saying. What I want or you want is hypothetical and irrelevant. Take it as a rhetorical device. But the facts on the ground are that we have to be one or the other. We can't ever be both, and therefore the rhetoric of "feel free to do what floats your boat and let others do the same" is not value-free and tolerant but actually in support of the established order. That order is based on the free sandbox-style RP where genres and expectations cross and conflict daily. It is an intolerant monoculture, because it can't coexist with other ways. The other intolerant monoculture would be one where you weren't in control of everything that happened to your character. The two are incompatible: either you are in full control or not. Being in full control and just pretending not to be if it floats your boat today (which is the best you can do now) is not the same thing. I'm just commenting on your question about why I can't choose to (not) do something and let others keep doing it. It's not just that I want to do something that's in my power personally, I want the server to be something. I want players to lose control of their PCs' fates, simply put. You can profess to sit on the fence but by not taking a side you're already taking a side. Selvec: you said "you all" so I naturally assumed you meant all of us. It's easy to make vague insults so that when you're called out on it you can say they weren't targeted at whoever did so, but it's not very classy. But anyway, I never called anyone childish (not that I don't have my personal opinions about that). If someone doesn't want to trust players and give them responsibility, he is treating them like children. There's no suggestion of childishness here. It simply means that adults are expected to fulfill their responsibilities and follow norms, and they should be given the freedom to do so or fail and be punished. Protecting them from potential mistakes and creating a sterile environment where nothing can be abused is something you do with children too young to be responsible and reasonable. That is why a server where fear of abuse is the primary doctrine of design is a server for children. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Selmak
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 12:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Does anyone remember the Flaming Fist from BG1? When you killed innocents and decreased your reputation, they would start popping up to fight you, so there were consequences for for your actions.
Any chance that when you've been quite active on the PvP front, you could be waylaid by NPC mercenaries looking to collect some gold for bringing you in dead or alive? so for example every time you trigger an encounter, there's a chance of it being random mercs instead of what you usually fight.
I know, it doesn't have anything to do with permadeath. But I think being harassed by mercenaries now and then would be a fun way to indicate that you're very unpopular in some circles.
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hendrack
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 13:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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PC mercenaries are cooler.
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Selmak
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 13:34 PM |
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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NPCs don't slack off though. 
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Herra Tutteri
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 17:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Location: Vaasa, Finland
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hendrack wrote: PC mercenaries are cooler. No one ever hires them. Otherwise, I fully agree with you. _________________ Characters: Hunar Iroff, The red-bearded, grumpy dwarf with a bastard sword. Chair of Military Issues Daren Sten, High Inquisitor of the Eternal Order of Kelemvor on Amia 
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Dark Immolation
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 22:33 PM |
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Developer
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
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That's another way a "timer" death option on the Hostile widget could be helpful. If you want to put out a hit on someone, you do so because you want them out of the picture, at least for a while.
So you hire someone IC to kill another PC. They could use SigDeath on them, and then bam, there you go.
_________________ You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it.
Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Feb 19 2011, 22:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Dark Immolation wrote: That's another way a "timer" death option on the Hostile widget could be helpful. If you want to put out a hit on someone, you do so because you want them out of the picture, at least for a while.
So you hire someone IC to kill another PC. They could use SigDeath on them, and then bam, there you go. Yep. Imagine the possibilities of setting up important political meetings and hiring gorillas to keep your competitor away long enough for you to solidify your status, for example. It's already possible to a lesser degree by capturing and holding the guy for 24 hours (which I think is the maximum non-consensual detention time?), but that's pretty awkward and OOC. You don't see hitmen lugging their victim around half the isle to their secret base of operations. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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ZoltanTheRed
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 5:00 AM |
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DM
Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Location: USA
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Ehh. There are a few things wrong with this idea. 1. Rebalance; They'd have to make items easier to find, and cost less because no one wants to keep buying shart only to be killed 4 hours later and then stay dead 2. Who wants to spend their amia time redoing all that stupid arse grinding all over again 3. Not worth it. I understand its an opinion thing, but these are real issues. I don't know so many people who have massively epic builds, nor people who'd want to require them to do anything on amia with the playerbase. In conclusion, people aren't going to decide not to kill someone, they'll kill them if they please(Like everyone else, or at least they'll try)
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Estara
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 5:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Haha. Iron... you are becoming more and more effective at turning me away from your point of view by insinuating that I'm against you when I'm not.
It is perfectly fine to argue the way I did, and your condescending "I argue better than you" attitude is disappointing. You are wrong. Science and argumentation (in a solid presentation) would show a variety of different servers/cultures where changes were made and what happened with certain controls over it. You have done none of this and have not even cited specific places where it did work. You have said nothing about struggles, what controls were placed over it, how it was done, compared it to any that it didn't work, etc etc.
There is nothing wrong (seeing as your presentation was very pointedly one-sided and not actually very defensible) with assuming that you are ignoring all the places where it doesn't work for your own argumentative convenience... and it's not poor logic. Sorry not sorry, bud.
I'm not making any assumptions about Amia's playerbase. I AM one of those players! I don't think I'm thaaat immature...
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 9:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Estara wrote: Haha. Iron... you are becoming more and more effective at turning me away from your point of view by insinuating that I'm against you when I'm not.
It is perfectly fine to argue the way I did, and your condescending "I argue better than you" attitude is disappointing. You are wrong. Science and argumentation (in a solid presentation) would show a variety of different servers/cultures where changes were made and what happened with certain controls over it. You have done none of this and have not even cited specific places where it did work. You have said nothing about struggles, what controls were placed over it, how it was done, compared it to any that it didn't work, etc etc.
There is nothing wrong (seeing as your presentation was very pointedly one-sided and not actually very defensible) with assuming that you are ignoring all the places where it doesn't work for your own argumentative convenience... and it's not poor logic. Sorry not sorry, bud.
I'm not making any assumptions about Amia's playerbase. I AM one of those players! I don't think I'm thaaat immature... You're right, of course: my presentation is not a solid, thorough and unbiased report nor is it meant to be. The thing is, the burden of proof is not on me. I don't need to show that it won't be abused, I never said it wouldn't. Others said that it will be abused and therefore shouldn't be tried. That's what needs to be proven. I'm just throwing my positive experiences of counter-observations as icing on the cake, and even one example is enough to show that it won't necessarily go badly. The real core of the issue is that you (whoever) shouldn't be a negative nay-sayer and you shouldn't insult the Amia playerbase with your low expectations. We haven't experienced this system in Amia, so we have no way of knowing if it will be abused. It might, it might not, but the baseless fear of it is no reason to forget it. And again, I'm not talking about you personally and what you expect of Amia's playerbase. You haven't even expressed your opinion, after all. I'm speaking on a general, hypothetical level. Just to refresh memories, this is what I said and certainly didn't present it as a sociological report of NWN servers: Quote: There's a balance to be found, of course, and not just any blatantly abusable system is necessary a good one. Nevertheless, if it can be countered it shouldn't be too great of a concern. You can't do anything if you speculate and steer clear of every potentially abusable solution. Way more severe systems work on other servers and people don't whine over there. What makes you think Amians can't be just as mature and responsible? Every server has its own problems and needs its own solutions, but I don't see why our players wouldn't have the same potential for maturity as anyone else. You will note that I didn't even claim Amians are as mature as other people. I asked what makes you (whoever) think they couldn't be. If you're going to dismiss every change on the basis of potential abuse before you even study how it might work on Amia specifically, you're not being very responsible. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 18:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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So why is this thread still on?
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 19:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Because the spam still hides itself in a cloak of "reasonable argument".
_________________
I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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hendrack
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 20:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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You need proper edumucation to understand this thread, you punks.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 20:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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This topic should probably be locked and another one possibly started because some people seem to think we're still discussing permadeath let alone the original suggestion. And you spammers probably should be forum banned for it, but we all know how well that's enforced. >_>
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Nekhy
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 21:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Location: A beautiful fowl house in A'dam
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Yeah, when we ban people for being douches we get whining and when we don't ban them for being douches we get whining. Less trouble for us to save the ban button for special occasions.
Not that "spamming" a topic was ever a bannable offence to begin with so nothing to enforce there.
Anyway, I think this topic has indeed run its course.
_________________
Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR
Prod me for development-related stuff.
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Lally
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Posted: Sun, Feb 20 2011, 21:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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Iron, I'm really getting tired of you bashing the way we do stuff or don't do stuff in like, every other post you make. I have a pretty big tolerance level where opinions of the server is concerned and I understand not everyone's going to like what we do, but it's getting very irritating to read over and over from you. I wish you would spend half of your forum energy in game trying to make these changes you long for. I wished for that when you were on the team, too.
I work a full time job, and hold down a household as do most of the team whether it's school, or work, or kids... We're volunteering to do our best to work with the players (whom we do NOT see as children, nor do I think we treat them that way) and it's very hard to continue doing that work when a former member of our own team is constantly berating how we run certain aspects of the show. I dug you on the team, I dig your zeal and I don't know where this hostility comes from save your butting heads with maybe one or two DM's. The only problem with that is, you're statements are directed to all of us.
I'm going to lock this but not out of spite, because you're correct that this needs a new discussion thread and you're free to make one if you'd like. Let me know if there's a good post to split off and I can do that too if needed.
There's my spam for the day.
*also, Nekh ninja'd me.
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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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