AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Build and Build Advice Topic: Mk. IV

There's a pair of gloves, They'll give you what you need, but i would forfeit them if i had any epic gloves of : discipline or concentration or something.
Same with the cloak, Either you wear it ... or you wear a fortification cloak perhaps?

I got a question myself, To start a 25RangeR/4Fighter/1Rogue, What starting stats do you go for?

STR 18
DEX 10
CON 10
WIS 14
INT 12
CHA 8

?

DEX 9, INT 13, grab IKD, or DEX 8, INT 14, grab IKD and skillzors. A Ranger can never have enough skill points, it's always on the verge of making some skill useful. Set Trap maxed is useful even if wearing a full-plate, also Hide is ridiculously easy to boost to the point of okayness with a few spells. You can easily reach Hide and MS around 50 with some ranks and spells, and that is often enough to cornersneak half the server.

Buffing isn't a problem. Skill bonus giving spells last forever. Just make sure to buff yourself with them after every rest and you're prepared for battle. I swear it gives a nice touch to your PvP. Know that these little tricks aren't your strength in fighting, though. If the scenario includes a single spotter your stealthiness goes in vain.

I just digged out an old unfinished character from my archive.
The plan was I think to go: 16rogue/10CoT/4fighter (8r/8cot/4f preepic).
Hes a tuigan and started with states: 19str,9dex,14con,8wis,14int,8cha.
All points are going to STR (ending at 26)
Feats so far: LoH, strong soul, lightning reflexes, iron will, great fortitude, kd, imp.kd, exotic weap, weap focus: dwarven waraxe, imp crit: waraxe, toughness, blind fight, weap spec: waraxe, resist energy: fire and acid (does those stack with items?)
Planned epic feats (for 8rogue/2CoT): Armor skin, epic prowness, epic weap, epic weap spec, efs: spot, imp.evasion, crippling strike and slippery mind.
Should end with:
Base saving throws: 27/27/19
AC: 51, AB: late 40's
Skills: discipline, disarm trap, open lock, search, UMD, spot, heal and tumble all maxed, a bit left over (21 I think, maybe going 10 in spellcraft)
Hes lvl 16 now (7r/5cot/4f), what could be better?
Hes clearly a STR based rogue in full plate/tower shield/axe, with high savings and ability to preform all rogue thingies (except hide and ms).
I'm not at all concerned about pkp'ing, but would like to be able to kill a boss or two now and then..

Resistance gained from Resist energy does not stack with similar attributes from items. As you're already that far, you might as well stick to your plan, but trade Slippery mind for ESF Discipline.

My personal favourite of that bugger is the Fighter10/CoT10/Rogue10 with Devastating and the possibility to dualwield, although Uce's Fighter18/CoT10/Rogue10 is pretty, too.

If you don't care for PvP, why take Spot feats/skillpoints?

The resistance feats do stack with items, but I would go for Skill focus Spot and Discipline.

My advice is never to see the DEX-base Epic Dodger variant in action. I love my heavy sluggers, but it's undeniable that the extra 10-ish damage per hit doesn't make up for the AC and Epic Dodge.

Uce wrote:

The resistance feats do stack with items[...]

Oh, the cow is correct. Sorry.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Resistance gained from Resist energy does not stack with similar attributes from items. As you're already that far, you might as well stick to your plan, but trade Slippery mind for ESF Discipline.

I know slippery seems kinda odd, but since hes a saving throw whore, I thought it would become kinda usefull in epics, but maybe all just drink mind blank potion anyway.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

My personal favourite of that bugger is the Fighter10/CoT10/Rogue10 with Devastating and the possibility to dualwield, although Uce's Fighter18/CoT10/Rogue10 is pretty, too.

Uce's has just 2 rogue lvls I think. Anyway, dont wanna go dual wield this time nor dev crit. Thx for the fast reply though

Uberuce wrote:

If you don't care for PvP, why take Spot feats/skillpoints?

I like to spot the monsters before they notice me, gives me time to sometimes back off or whatever. I havent been involved in any kind of Pkp'ing the last 3-4 years, its just not my thing...

Uberuce wrote:

The resistance feats do stack with items, but I would go for Skill focus Spot and Discipline.

Already taken fire resistance, will think about a +3 im spot/disc maybe.

Uberuce wrote:

My advice is never to see the DEX-base Epic Dodger variant in action. I love my heavy sluggers, but it's undeniable that the extra 10-ish damage per hit doesn't make up for the AC and Epic Dodge.

Well, I already have a dex/hipster/epic dodger with the AC to go, she makes like 15 dmg pr. hit, dont wanna go there again.

As I said its just an old character, if I'm unhappy with him, he'll just get stored again.
I actually like to level up, to hunt in old grounds once again and meet new friends to do it with (I have never really understood why this free rebuild is so popular here).

I'm tryig to simulate a divine version of an AA with my Elfling, I'm currently at 3 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 4 cleric, I was going to go for 9 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 20 cleric, then I remembered epic spells, any ideas on how many Cleric lvls to take?

Quote:

Druid 21: Great Wisdom 1
Druid 22:
Druid 23:
Druid 24: Great Wisdom 2, 3
Druid 25:
Druid 26:
Rogue 27: Great Wisdom 4
Druid 28:
Ranger 29: ESF: Evo
Druid 30: Dragonshape, Epic Mummy Dust

To do the double dragon build, I can swap ESF: Evo for ESF Conj, and swap EMD for EDK.

I tried it out by adding xp to my existing char in the single-player campaign, and it all works - feats and everything.

Only thing that I'm wondering - where in the world does that lvl 29 feat come from (ESF Evo, as its in your build)? At first I thought it was a typo and so I made sure to test it myself to see that it worked, and it does.

But now it just has me wondering where I'm getting it from. Though my heart is joyous, as the Double Dragon Build 'is' possible : D. Thinking thats the way I'm gonna go.

Ranger 1 gives a bonus feat which at epic levels can be used for ESF.

Well thats just mighty and fine. Thanks!

dayfer wrote:

I'm tryig to simulate a divine version of an AA with my Elfling, I'm currently at 3 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 4 cleric, I was going to go for 9 ranger/ 1 rogue/ 20 cleric, then I remembered epic spells, any ideas on how many Cleric lvls to take?

Whats the 9 ranger for when you want to use a ranged weapon?

You can use the bog-standard Cleric 25 Fighter 4 Rogue/Bard 1 with zen archery, something ranged, lots of WIS and a bit CHA for dmg. I suppose you can also try a ranger 25 fighter 4 and rogue 1, that nets you +5 spot/dmg vs favored enemies and with bane of enemies some dmg, but its behind the cleric because of the lack of GMW on the ranged weapon, you need epic loot if you want +5 weapons (or a buffer) The pet is awesome though.

Cleric/Bard/AA would work, wouldn't it? Elflings have elven blood so the class should be open, shouldn't it?

DustSpray101 wrote:

Cleric/Bard/AA would work, wouldn't it? Elflings have elven blood so the class should be open, shouldn't it?

Elflings use the halfling race, so as far as I was aware this is negative.

it should yeah, origonally she was going to have 1 sorc lvl instead of rogue and several AA lvls along with some ranger lvls. As for the current build she's RP built heavily I will admit, I didn't origonally know I was going for any Cleric lvls but when I read up on Avoreen, He suits her to a tee and I came up with her current build. The whole ranger lvls are there because her mother was a druidess and Pilineth picked up her love of nature but not to such an extent. That and I'm an idiot who thinks Archers need rngr lvls...

Also the DMs said that the reason there's no AA for Elf-hin is a base race problem, and the Dev team are busy enough.

I'm building the DwD tank described on some prior page. The pure tank version F8/DWD18/COT4. Anyway, I've got a question about a pre-epic feat selection.

Power Attack - how much AB do you need to have to make taking it worthwhile? His AB sets up like this:

Base 25
STR 11 (fully buffed)
WF/EWF 3
Weapon 5
Total: 44

Not including Bless/Aid or other bonuses which could take it a bit higher. Now, he will also have the ability to dual wield so that would be -2 on all attacks as he will have all 3 feats and light off hand weapon. I expect whether he goes weapon and shield or dual wield will depend on the situation.

The feat he'd lose would be either lightning reflexes or energy resist sonic. I didn't have Power Attack on his list originally. Thoughts.

Personally, I wouldn't use Power Attack ever, unless up against something with a stupidly low AC. AB, in itself, directly translates into damage, and -5 is a 25% lower chance to hit with ALL attacks, with is pretty substantial. Furthermore, -5 AB is, arguably, similar to having one less attack, as attacks progressively downgrade by 5, unless you're a monk.
On the other hand, it can be pretty handy with low damage, high AB finesse builds...

If you make your character right, you can keep power attack on and never see a decrease in hit rate. I do it with a piddly 49 AB.

I took IPA on my Barbarian. The joys of hitting manor creatures with a Positive vs Undead Hammer and the full suite of buffs striking 90 - 110 flat damage repeatedly is amazing. And thats on a One-Hander feller.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Yes, that I'm entirely sure of. What I'm doubtful about, however, is whether there's something better to wear instead.

My Druid chap doesn't bother with the PBS he wants Called Shot instead and flings from as far away as possible, because I only went to GSF Evo and invested in Weapon Profs for the sling. His base AB was 40/42 without magic. +16 Wisdom +4 EWF/Prowess +20 BAB +2 Druid Sense.

Called shot leg became spammed which netted my summons extra AC from the -dex component of Called Shot. Mind mine wasn't a Double Dragon build just a ring master type. I swapped out Ranger for four fighter levels 25/4/1.

Epic Feats:
21 Druid: EMD.
22 Druid:
23 Druid:
24 Druid: Great Wisdom, Great Wisdom
25 Fighter: Epic Weapon focus Sling
26 Fighter: Armor Skin
27 Fighter: Great Wisdom
28 Fighter: Epic Prowess
29 Rogue:
30 Druid: Great Wisdom

maglorine wrote:

Build stuff!

The sad thing about the build is that it'd be tankier with a level of Rogue, HS or Monk.

With those two feats in question I'd rather grab PA. AB 45 is good for most critters, and with a bard in the party you can flail away having a passive PA around the clock. It's a nice "little" (really it's gigantic) extra to your silly wham.

If you intend to make the build any good in PvP, you take Spot. It's useless alone, but in a party it's very effective with its huge saves and a beefy HP. Therefore you might want to consider Blooded or SF Spot over PA if you haven't got them yet.

I've never used Power Attack as a spare feat; either I take it for the pre-req value or I take something else. It's available on the Paws of the Bear. You could just pop them on when you're in a Bard/Cleric party or cruising goobers for loot, but I personally don't; I prefer to spam KD, and the AB drain really hurts there.

My barb have Called shot; for the fun of it... It's more effective than you believe...Especially with the ANNOYING Terrifying rage

Edit - Trying to say that, All feats like, KD, called and PA, are essentially equally good, Depending on the situation. I wish i had them all tho.

I would say Knockdown(or for some enemies has to be Improved Knockdown) is a different class to Called and Power Attack.

If its a choice between IKD and Called shot. IKD wins.

MoshingChris wrote:

If its a choice between IKD and Called shot. IKD wins.

Between Knockdown, Called shot, and Power attack.

Then another choice between IKD - Imp.Power attack - Called shot

STR based Cleric, Bard, Red dragon disciple. A War-Cleric of Tiamat.

Motto : A good offence is the best defence
Race : Halfling!

20/1/9

Going all out in STR and netting Dev.crit.
Wielding a two-hander

40STR(15Modifier) + 25 Base + 20 AB cap + 3 Wep,focus/epic wep,Focus = 63.

It feels like i've missed something...

How are you getting 25BAB on a Cleric/Bard/RDD? 20, maximum.

Theres also the issue of how focusing in STR will affect your spellslots. Its certainly not possible to have both STR and WIS maxed at creation, so you won't be able to invest fully in STR without gimping your cleric casting power. And not having a base Wis in the 20s will mean you wont have that many spellslots to fill with your extended Divine Favour and the like.

Yep, I missed something. Thanks cloak.

Very_Svensk wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

If its a choice between IKD and Called shot. IKD wins.

Between Knockdown, Called shot, and Power attack.

Then another choice between IKD - Imp.Power attack - Called shot

Nope because Knockdown is available on two items and available as a request. The choice is never between Called Shot and Knockdown its always between IKD and Called Shot.

I don't include PA in it at all, because PA is either taken as a pre-req or used of items.

Just a curious thought..

How effective and valid would a warrior wielding a spear, AND able to shoot a bow, and not have crappy damage on either one?

Just a random thought as to how that build would go?

I have a few ideas for such a build but I'm not sure if it'll run very well.

Probably the easiest way is a heavy fighter/cleric combination with Zen Archery.

Cleric 21 Fighter 8 Bard 1
Human

Strength 17 -> 20
Wisdom 16 -> 20
Con 10
Dex 8
Int 13
Cha 8

Cleric 16 Fighter 4
Feats: Zen Archery, Weapon Focus x2, Imp crit x2, extend spell, maximise spell, blindfight, weapon spec x2, called shot.

Epic Feats: Epic weapon focii x2, epic weapon spec x2, armor skin, EMD.

It works for the concept I guess, but its not that great.

The other and probably better option is

14 strength
16 wisdom -> 20
15 cha -> 18
10 con
12 int
8 dex

And just taking zen archery without the weapon foci feats, devoting the feats to Divine Might/Shield/Power Attack and using it as a disabler with called shot.

Hey builders,

Wondering what a /pure/ monk build would look like from the base up. Assuming human, hand-to-hand in at 30 and what would the weak point in the build be?

Lack of UMD.

No UMD, loss of glove slot as true utility, possibly low damage if going the classic dex/wis route, still low damage from not having wep spec/epic spec outside That One Belt, no epic dodge, kinda low AB (but that's just a non cleric 34/ths class thing and I play a WM so probably biased)

but damn will you run fast

Just do it. It's great, you'll love it. Unless you go DEX, then your damage output will be too petty for even your Mum to love you anymore.

Lack of UMD is the main weak point, for PvP and PvBoss it's also poor AB.

STR-base is better for PvMob; depending on race you can get 58-59AC with a friend to help you buff WIS via Insight scrolls, and you'll be putting out a solid ~33 damage/hit or 30 if you want to have +5.

As we are on monks, do the loss of 7 SR (five levels, 1 epic feat) make a big difference in PvM when going 25 monk/5 fighter instead of pure monk?

Not really, no.

There's a teensy minority of annoying spells you can't block by other means, whereas you'll always be missing the extra AB and attack.

MoshingChris wrote:

Cleric 21 Fighter 8 Bard 1
Human

Strength 17 -> 20
Wisdom 16 -> 20
Con 10
Dex 8
Int 13
Cha 8

Cleric 16 Fighter 4
Feats: Zen Archery, Weapon Focus x2, Imp crit x2, extend spell, maximise spell, blindfight, weapon spec x2, called shot.

Epic Feats: Epic weapon focii x2, epic weapon spec x2, armor skin, EMD.

It works for the concept I guess, but its not that great.

The other and probably better option is

14 strength
16 wisdom -> 20
15 cha -> 18
10 con
12 int
8 dex

And just taking zen archery without the weapon foci feats, devoting the feats to Divine Might/Shield/Power Attack and using it as a disabler with called shot.

Yea, I was thinking Zen Archery would play a role in that, and it may be the only build that actuall works, but I thought you could go something like Fighter/bard/AA? There's one build out there that lets you net two devastating crits for your bow, and whatever melee weapon you have? Though, not sure how gimped that would be.

What about a WM build? Could it work for this concept?

I think the dev.crit on bow build you're referring to, comes from a 10Fighter/2Bard/18 AA.
And i have a feel it's a Wood elf

Want to make a human barbarian... most likely 28 barb/2 rogue or 26 barb/ 4 rogue

What are some must haves for barbs as far as feats go? I would like to fit in terrifying and thundering rage in the build as well but without gimping other stats too badly... any suggestions?

Sin, I have a Woodelf Dev AA build that you can have, if you want it. It gets 47AB with the current layout, which is 12Fighter/2Bard/16AA, might want to change it to 10/2/18 (You get +1 [+9 altogether] to enchantment + Bonus feat + 14d6 Imbue arrow explosion dmg) though and just use the current as a guideline build, up to you.

Let me know if you want it and I'll PM it to you.

Edit - I forgot to mention, it gets Dev in two weapons. Bow + whatever you want.

I am brainstorming ideas to have decent ranged touch attacks coupled with quicken and auto quicken for spells. So far I've come up with a Sorc 21/CoT 8/Bard 1.

Progressing at 15 Sorc, 5 CoT, 6 Sorc, 1 Bard, 1 Sorc. Split of Dex and Charisma.

Any thoughts? This is for an upcoming warlock toon of mine.

Dieu_Le_Fera wrote:

Want to make a human barbarian... most likely 28 barb/2 rogue or 26 barb/ 4 rogue

What are some must haves for barbs as far as feats go? I would like to fit in terrifying and thundering rage in the build as well but without gimping other stats too badly... any suggestions?

If you're going thundering, you may as well go Dev.crit. Since both Thundering + Dev requires 25 STR.

On a human, you'll have 8 feats Pre-Epic, and with 28Barb, that's 6 Feats in Epic.
Suggesting pre-Epic.

In Epic

Mind you, This is just a suggestion.

Egh. All good points. No wonder we tend to cross class. Think I'll stick with my SD builds

@ Sin4given.

Ever considered Rogue/bard/AA? With some work, and some sacrifice, You may end up with dev.Crit bow -And- Epic dodge.
You're going Wood Elf anyway, So let us explore the alternatives.

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